fjcardoso
Private
Reged: 03/10/04
Posts: 39
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Move units
#86679 - 03/10/04 05:33 PM (200.141.92.118)
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Would be nice to move units to faction mates zones. It would help to defend their zones and to launch counter attacks.
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davion76
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 08/07/02
Posts: 1605
Loc: Ridgecrest CA, USA
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Re: Move units
[Re: fjcardoso]
#86680 - 03/10/04 05:46 PM (138.163.0.42)
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I think most people agree that this would be a good move, but the problem with this is that it just isn't very high on a long list of to dos for the admins.
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Kit_fox
Colonel
Reged: 09/16/02
Posts: 3054
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Re: Move units
[Re: davion76]
#86681 - 03/10/04 05:53 PM (129.138.30.194)
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Not to mention the coding nightmare!
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The RNG mugged me in a dark street, killed my dog, and cancled Christmas.
When the winds of change blow hard enough the most trivial of things can become deadly projectials.
Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil.
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Markon
Lieutenant
Reged: 02/19/04
Posts: 578
Loc: Australia
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Re: Move units
[Re: fjcardoso]
#86702 - 03/11/04 01:52 AM (211.29.136.13)
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This would really assist in defending faction members against pirate attacks.
Also it would be a huge incentive for people to be in a faction.
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Remember that the Ark was built by an amateur, the Titanic was built by a bunch of professionals.
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sdog
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 1791
Loc: europe
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Re: Move units
[Re: fjcardoso]
#86720 - 03/11/04 05:33 AM (217.232.166.55)
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this would also screw the whole nev LW system.
a fraction of the military of a larger empire would render smaler empires completely invincible by empires of the same level.
an example: one of the lvl3 empires in my faction attacks another lvl3 empire. i would send a comp of my manticores in the cities my lvl3 conquered. a counterstrike will be unable to take it's city back in a counterattack. restrictions will prevent larger empires to counterattack for the small one.
this doesn't mean it can't be cool. but the WHOLE land war part of neveron needs to be redone, if such a system would be introduced.
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I realised soon that the fun part of playing a military game is that we have lots of lifes and in the end knowone dies, ...
- Skaven, ArmA modding community
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Protagoras
Captain
Reged: 08/04/02
Posts: 1131
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Re: Move units
[Re: sdog]
#86722 - 03/11/04 05:36 AM (161.114.1.181)
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Exactly I have wrestled with this problem to come up with workable ideas and cannot seem to get around that one HUGE problem.
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newrotic
Lieutenant
Reged: 08/28/03
Posts: 681
Loc: Why are you looking for me?
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Re: Move units
[Re: Markon]
#86730 - 03/11/04 06:13 AM (62.104.219.85)
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Bp scores setting helps (as long as you actually have a defense). Handing out a playerlogin to your FL helps (assuming you are playing together with people you can trust). Also, empires willing to assist can just drop close to the Area where pirates are coming in (or the Areas, in case you get more groups), defeating them, then sending their troops home for you to be able to claim back the Zones.
There are already large incentives to join a faction:
a) Usually, your empire gets to live longer.
b) Repair and other supportcapabilities, such as Money transfers.
I do not like the Idea at all. The enitire restriction system would get totally out of whack! Some largo empiro having itself surrounded by lowlvls closing empty space between itself and another colseby large empire would be able to send huge masses of troops onto that other empire. Which, in turn, would have to pay enormous amounts of money to attack the Zones of the lowlvls where the attacking troops are gathered in.
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What you call truth is just your way of seeing things. Truth is too complex to be explained in words...
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Wraith
Major
Reged: 03/17/03
Posts: 1238
Loc: Wichita, KS, USA
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Re: Move units
[Re: fjcardoso]
#86736 - 03/11/04 07:06 AM (172.193.56.162)
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I could just place some of my beefy towers in an allies zone, and loan them an assault company... Then a lvl 2 could go an rampage through a lvl 6, lure them into the city with all of my towers! Good idea in concept, but unusable in Neveron.
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-Wraith
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LiRa
Sergeant Major
Reged: 06/12/03
Posts: 369
Loc: Canada
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Re: Move units
[Re: Wraith]
#86798 - 03/11/04 01:02 PM (65.92.123.202)
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hmm, a halfway idea might be the ability to move your units THROUGH allies zones. They can't sit there. I think that this may be doable. If your factionmate unlcaimed a chunk of land you could move through his zones to counter attack etc.
But, like someone already said, this is waay down on the to do list. I for one would rather see quite a few things before this.
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Li
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Mazer
Colonel
Reged: 01/24/03
Posts: 1622
Loc: Margaritaville ;)
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Re: Move units
[Re: LiRa]
#86800 - 03/11/04 01:10 PM (66.20.28.21)
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I don't think it would be that hard to get allies zones recognized as friendly so a path for land movement could be traced through them. It can already check to see if the zone is from an empire allied to you, since it shows a message for that. Just make it check to see if the zone belongs to a factionmate when the move is processed. It would still be more useful to be able to actually garrison troops in the other empire.....
Why not just limit it in some way? There has to be an easy way to do this, for instance only a certain percentage of the empires existing BV can be sent as support, and while the troops are on station both empires have to pay the maintenance (maybe reduce it to 3/4 or so for the owning empire, full for the recipient). Or just allow allies to send temporary reinforcements into a battle to participate on the defenders side until the fight is resolved. The admins would have to decide if the ally keeps the zone or the original owner if the owner's troops are eliminated but the ally still defeats the attackers.
All in all, it would be a big change to the way defense is played in this game, and make it easier to make a true defense instead of only counterattacking after the fact.
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Struck, sir? I have not yet begun to fight! - John Paul Jones
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Nimon
Captain
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 819
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Re: Move units
[Re: Mazer]
#86809 - 03/11/04 01:54 PM (65.240.118.50)
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Mazer can I point out one huge way that this could be abused.
Lets take my fortress zones for a perfect example:
Its next to impossible for my zones to fall due to the assault tanks and towers there. now I get a bunch of people (and its something like 360 or so) level 1 empires. They dump all thier infra and just get a lance or so of mechs. They delete all thier infra, so now they get SES to pay for thier military costs and nothing else (and get some money from me as level 1 and 2 are peanuts to fund). Now ther are 360 level 1 empires that can strike out any where, hide their mechs in my cities and basically just terrorize people. I would not condone this course of action but, can you not see how this could be really really bad?
So to recap
My whole faction has all thier stuff in my zones, my zones are garrisoned to the teeth. Pirates and counter attacks can not hurt them, they go and make other peoples lives miserable. I really seeing this being abused like this, and though I could use it very effectively, I think its very cheesy and borderline cheating.
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Protagoras
Captain
Reged: 08/04/02
Posts: 1131
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Re: Move units
[Re: Nimon]
#86812 - 03/11/04 02:14 PM (161.114.1.181)
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Exactly Nimon... stuff like that would be the problem. If we could solve this then it opens up the way for true merc's which would be great... I have thought and thought about it and every solution seems to be flawed.
The best idea I have had revolves around a treaty system where you get to lend an amount of BV to another empire. This BV's maint. cost is paid by BOTH the lending empire and the allied empire. These lent forces can operate in the zones of either empire, but may only attack zones of an empire that is at war with the nation the forces are lent to. In addition when calculating WL of an empire you use indigenous Units as well as lent units to calculate the WL. The lender can reclaim his forces at anytime merely by indicating so, and if they are on foreign soil he must immediatly LC or overland move them to his soil.
The problem with the above is it still allows a nation to declare war, then use a larger empires military to prosecute the attack. I want to be able to limit the lent units to defensive actions.. but how do I determine that... only attack zones that were owned by the receiving nation in the past 30 nevdays maybe? In any case something like the above would have to be done.. and its a pretty complicated project... and I am SURE even the best made plans will still be fraught with abuses.
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davion76
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 08/07/02
Posts: 1605
Loc: Ridgecrest CA, USA
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Re: Move units
[Re: Nimon]
#86817 - 03/11/04 02:28 PM (138.163.0.42)
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One way to overcome the small empire keeping huge forces that they cannot hope to support is have empires that have negative cash and negative income use the lowest military maintenance settings - 75 currently, maybe creat a 50 and/or 25%. These small empires would quickly blow through all thier cash and then loose unit skills. Thus these wouldn'e be much if a threat.
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Mazer
Colonel
Reged: 01/24/03
Posts: 1622
Loc: Margaritaville ;)
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Re: Move units
[Re: Protagoras]
#86832 - 03/11/04 06:26 PM (68.60.13.118)
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Sure there are holes and ways to abuse this, but it's hard to find something that in its initial stages cannot be abused. So what if it takes some thinking to figure out how to get it to work, that's the whole point of having a suggestions forum, so everybody can post ideas and have the group think on it and work it out. This has huge defensive potential, it's just lazy to say it's too hard to figure out and drop it.
Okay, for clarification, most of this is directed at Nimon's response, just wanted to keep the conversation fairly linear. Comes off kinda harsh, I don't mean to be offensive but I see way to many ideas shot down because people don't seem to care enough to give a couple minutes thought on the subject. Happy brainstorming to all 
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Struck, sir? I have not yet begun to fight! - John Paul Jones
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Nimon
Captain
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 819
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Re: Move units
[Re: Mazer]
#86852 - 03/11/04 10:08 PM (172.156.135.231)
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I do not take it as harsh, what I was trying to point out is this.
this makes it where large empires can hide small empires, and thus the 5 empire rule can be easily abused (I mean think about it 350 or so empires with SES, and they just buy items from me at inflated prices, that is a lot of cash (that is something like a 17.5 million a NEVDAY income that can be tapped by hiding a lance of Stingers (that I made for a level 0 empire) in my core cities. And since the admins are expecting pirates to rid empires that are not logged into a lot and not enforcing the 5 empire rule, technically I could have all 350 or so empires hidden in my core cities, for the same defense costs that I am paying now.
Do not get me wrong, I am not saying scrap the idea (I voted I would like it) what we need to do is brainstorm on how it can be abused and come up with ideas that prevent it.
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