Grizzly
07/05/01 05:06 AM
12.108.119.227
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True, but it also states in the 3055 TRO page 128 under the Behemoth/Stone Rhino capabilities:
"While such machines bring awesome firepower to the battlefield, ultimately, commanders cannot use them effectively because they cannot afford to lose one."
Plus it just seems that everyone wants to play assault vs. assault. I was online with MW4 and everyone was using an Atlas, Daishi, or Madcat MKII, and there I was with an Uziel. (had fun though playing the pest) Even the last few times of table top at my local gaming club, it was 4 assaults against 4 assaults. Boring.... What happened to mediums and lights, with the occasional heavy tossed into the mix? I like many of the new lights and want to use them more often. Thankfully there are a few people I play against regularly who feel the same as I do.
"I am but mad north-northwest, when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw" Hamlet
"I am but mad north-northwest, when the wind is southerly I know a hawk from a handsaw" Hamlet
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DireWolf
07/05/01 08:37 AM
213.8.151.253
|
The same is also true about XL engines, Fusion engined vehicles, and other stuff.
"Historically" speaking, however, the IS was forced to begin fielding many more Assaults simply to stand up to the Clans.
The average Clan Omnimech is a fast heavy (Timberwolf, Summoner and the like), while the average IS 'Mech was a medium. This created a gap between the invading Clan hordes and the IS Battlemechs which were lighter, weaker and still not faster. The IS realized that the only way to win over the Clans was overwhelming firepower (In large engagements. You could try to outmaneuver them in smaller ones. But trust me, with the average units of the IS armies, outmaneuvering a Timber Wolf without being turned into a slag heap is HARD). The Clans, in turn, responded in kind, stepping up the production of assault Omnimechs (not that they had a lack of those before, but now Assault clusters are very frequent) and now the typical 'Mechs of most battle units are assaults, with the mediums relegated to the support role.
A shame really, because Assaults are less fun to play. But then again, it depends on the players.
-LeV "Dire Wolf" Arris.
"Hate is the emotion that will cause a man to journey to hell. Love is the emotion that will cause a man to journey to hell, and back, just to do it again."
-Lt. Lev (Res. Inf.) "Dire Wolf" Arris, IDF.
"What is it like fighting the Wolf ? Imagine a lightning with legs, an earthquake with arms, a catastrophe with genius or just pure hell on wheels".
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Acolyte
07/05/01 05:47 PM
142.179.11.14
|
I very rarely use Asaults myself. Speed is generally 4/6 for the heavys, and a 3/5 would be a huge hiderance.
Now, I know that some asaults have a speed of 4/6, but I really limit these things in my campaign. I want it to be scary when my players finally get a look at that MAD reading and find an Atlas....
Still, Asaults have their place. Personally, I think that they lack the one real advantage that a 'Mech would have in real life - Mobility.
Light a fire for a man, and you keep him warm for one night,
Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Acolyte
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Pidge
07/05/01 09:37 PM
66.68.70.54
|
You asked for it :)~
Type/Model: Gaussasauras Rex
Tech: Clan / 3062
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 2, Custom design
Mass: 100 tons
Chassis: Standard
Power Plant: 100 Fusion
Walking Speed: 10.8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 21.6 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type: Standard
Armament:
6 Gauss Rifles
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Gaussasauras Rex
Mass: 100 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 152 pts Standard 0 10.00
Engine: 100 6 3.00
Walking MP: 1
Running MP: 2
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 10 Double [20] 12 .00
(Heat Sink Loc: 2 LA, 2 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL)
Gyro: 4 1.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA R: Sh+UA 12 .00
Armor Factor: 160 pts Standard 0 10.00
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 31 25
Center Torso (Rear): 8
L/R Side Torso: 21 16/16
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 5/5
L/R Arm: 17 17/17
L/R Leg: 21 21/21
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Gauss Rifle RA 1 8 7 13.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 HD)
1 Gauss Rifle LA 1 6 12.00
2 Gauss Rifles RT 2 12 24.00
2 Gauss Rifles LT 2 12 24.00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 6 76 100.00
Crits & Tons Left: 2 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 7,853,334 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,921
Cost per BV: 4,088.15
Weapon Value: 2,209 / 2,209 (Ratio = 1.15 / 1.15)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 79; MRDmg = 65; LRDmg = 41
BattleForce2: MP: 1, Armor/Structure: 4/8
Damage PB/M/L: 7/7/7, Overheat: 0
Class: MA; Point Value: 19
Napoleon was a great general.
To be a great general, one must be forewarned.
To be forewarned is to be forearmed.
Four arms is an odd number of arms to have.
The only number that is both odd and even is infinity.
Therefore:
Napoleon had an infinite number of arms.
Napoleon was a great general.
To be a great general, one must be forewarned.
To be forewarned is to be forearmed.
Four arms is an odd number of arms to have.
The only number that is both odd and even is infinity.
Therefore:
Napoleon had an infinite number of arms.
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Pidge
07/05/01 09:42 PM
66.68.70.54
|
<sarcasm light is now on>
Oh please.... You people! Are you trying to tell me you don't like games that go like this:
Turn 1:
Lumber out on the field, and into a heavy wood hex. Total hexes moved = 1. Unload every weapon regardless of minimum distances and/or out of range.
Turn 2:
Take carefull aim. Wait for the heat to go down.
Turn 3:
Unload every weapon regardless of minimum distances and/or out of range.
Turn 4:
Take carefull aim. Wait for the heat to go down.
Repeat until your opponet is dead.
I can't believe your telling me theres no skill in that!!!
<sarcasm light is now off>
Napoleon was a great general.
To be a great general, one must be forewarned.
To be forewarned is to be forearmed.
Four arms is an odd number of arms to have.
The only number that is both odd and even is infinity.
Therefore:
Napoleon had an infinite number of arms.
Napoleon was a great general.
To be a great general, one must be forewarned.
To be forewarned is to be forearmed.
Four arms is an odd number of arms to have.
The only number that is both odd and even is infinity.
Therefore:
Napoleon had an infinite number of arms.
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Pidge
07/05/01 10:06 PM
66.68.70.54
|
Yes but you forget that My pilot is -2/-2 and my 'Mech has a tageting computer on it!!! so there goes your HEAD!!! BANG!
HAHAHHAHA
Napoleon was a great general.
To be a great general, one must be forewarned.
To be forewarned is to be forearmed.
Four arms is an odd number of arms to have.
The only number that is both odd and even is infinity.
Therefore:
Napoleon had an infinite number of arms.
Napoleon was a great general.
To be a great general, one must be forewarned.
To be forewarned is to be forearmed.
Four arms is an odd number of arms to have.
The only number that is both odd and even is infinity.
Therefore:
Napoleon had an infinite number of arms.
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Pidge
07/05/01 11:08 PM
66.68.70.54
|
Oh... well if your playing by THOSE rules! I prefer my house rules.
Rule 1:
I have to win or I shall throw a tantrum!
Rule 2:
Please refer to rule one if there are any problems.
:)
Napoleon was a great general.
To be a great general, one must be forewarned.
To be forewarned is to be forearmed.
Four arms is an odd number of arms to have.
The only number that is both odd and even is infinity.
Therefore:
Napoleon had an infinite number of arms.
Napoleon was a great general.
To be a great general, one must be forewarned.
To be forewarned is to be forearmed.
Four arms is an odd number of arms to have.
The only number that is both odd and even is infinity.
Therefore:
Napoleon had an infinite number of arms.
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Acolyte
07/06/01 12:55 AM
142.179.11.14
|
Lather, Rince,........
Light a fire for a man, and you keep him warm for one night,
Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Acolyte
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Pidge
07/06/01 07:14 AM
66.68.70.54
|
<shiver>
Napoleon was a great general.
To be a great general, one must be forewarned.
To be forewarned is to be forearmed.
Four arms is an odd number of arms to have.
The only number that is both odd and even is infinity.
Therefore:
Napoleon had an infinite number of arms.
Napoleon was a great general.
To be a great general, one must be forewarned.
To be forewarned is to be forearmed.
Four arms is an odd number of arms to have.
The only number that is both odd and even is infinity.
Therefore:
Napoleon had an infinite number of arms.
|
Greyslayer
07/07/01 02:59 AM
203.147.165.75
|
'The average Clan Omnimech is a fast heavy (Timberwolf, Summoner and the like), while the average IS 'Mech was a medium.'
That is very generalised. Most clans actually had light-mediums (such as the Dragonfly in Ghost Bear) as their most common mech, or units like the Uller (in jade falcon) as a prevalent unit. The fact was though no matter how light or heavy a clan galaxy/cluster was they could field either heavy units in a light force or a light/medium in a heavy force for such a small difference in firepower and speed. Example the Jade Falcon Assault Clusters had a large % of Ullers and Pumas but that didn't stop them from having a Star or three of heavy mechs and even assaults.
Reading the early works in battletech (such as the Kurita Sourcebook) you learn that the Kuritans had a massive % of lights and heavies but relatively small numbers of mediums compared to their neighbors, this though was never represented in any tables. In books like Hotspots when rolling enemy forces the Davions ended up with units like the Nightsky in their assault table showing their lack of assaults in their forces but retained a decent number of heavies and mediums. The Lyrans were naturally heavier and their average unit weight was well above the medium mark whereas their enemy in the Free Worlds League had a almost purely medium mech army with a few support heavy and assault units thrown in (and they classed the Orion in their assault mech production!).
Now we know that the clans came through Lyran/Combine areas so naturally they would be taking on heavier units than their rimward cousin-states, now figure that the economies of both these states are shot due to the invasion and that Assaults cost expodentially more than a light medium or heavy mech (the value increases the more expensive equipment you put on the chassis due to this ... very little price difference to a 30 tonner with a fusion to a 30tonner with a XL engine compared to the 100 ton mechs). Also clans were not beaten often in 1-on-1 combat ... it rarely if ever succeeded but the clans took greater losses if the IS forces 'mass mugged' the invaders then ran away before the clan could tie them down. this is more viable with quick well armoured lights and mediums (with the odd Heavy for the clans to target if they are under honour systems). They could produce a far greater number of said lights and mediums for less resources/costs and the fact that they lost alot of pilots meant that the pilots in the new mechs would be pretty much the same quality as those in the 100 tonners.
The fact is though that the clans also had weapons that could and often would take heads off with one shot, this actually DEVALUES assault mechs since having a large amount of firepower tied up in one mech just to go down to a early headshot being a complete waste.
Anyway time to catch my breath ;)
Greyslayer
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Pidge
07/07/01 12:28 PM
66.68.70.54
|
well maybe in your pansy rules you can't targe the head... but thats just cause you run wuss rules...
Napoleon was a great general.
To be a great general, one must be forewarned.
To be forewarned is to be forearmed.
Four arms is an odd number of arms to have.
The only number that is both odd and even is infinity.
Therefore:
Napoleon had an infinite number of arms.
Napoleon was a great general.
To be a great general, one must be forewarned.
To be forewarned is to be forearmed.
Four arms is an odd number of arms to have.
The only number that is both odd and even is infinity.
Therefore:
Napoleon had an infinite number of arms.
|
Deathshadow
07/09/01 08:29 PM
24.128.83.108
|
That's preaching to the chior for me.
In most games I've played or setup, we usually make the BV cap so low that the only way to field an assault is to only have one, which can be suicidal against two or three mediums.
Personally, I hate assault mechs for the simple reason I have never had much luck with anything tech 2 slower than 5/8 or 4/6/4. That puts me on the bottom edge of the assault class for my choices.
To me, these 3/5 gunboats are really pointless, since 90% of the time they cannot hit anything and fall down a lot with anything less than 2/2 pilots (which my playgroup generally won't allow. We usually play fixed 4/4 or 3/4 for everybody to make it more tactic based).
All you have to do is look at my favorite level two clan mech to get the gist of my tactics. Grendel A, or as I like to call it, the Assault Hunter. In a stand up fight, me using Grendel A's against an equal number of assaults will win about 80% of the time, and the losses are more attributable to the luck factor of the game than the fact the mechs are so light.
And in level one play, nothing beats the Locust 1M (unless your willing to re-equip a mongoose with LRM's).
Hell I'd like the Wraith if it's firepower wasn't impossible to hit with and borderline non-existant. Make it 50 tons, TC, ERLL and 5 standard mediums, and then we'll talk. (Stupid @#$% @#$%@3 ever loving !@#$!@ 1@#$! Inner Sphere pulse lasers)
Cartman 3:16 says I just ate your cheesy poofs
Kept my cool under lock and key,
and I never shed a tear,
another sign of my condidtion.
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SSFSX17
07/21/01 01:38 PM
209.233.16.47
|
Compact Heat Sinks, I think, let the Inner Sphere catch up with Clan Double Heat Sinks.
What they need things of, are of small and light weapons.
Lousy good-for-nothing mortals. Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em.
Lousy good-for-nothing mortals. Can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em.
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WIE
08/03/01 04:35 AM
143.138.26.38
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when i run my cluster i have 25% assult 50 hevey 40% medium 10% light. shoot my meduiums i run are mainly dragon flys and black hawks with a shadow cat and ryoukin p in the mix also. now for the lights i run the pack hunter a puma or 2 and a fenerious. now for my heveys i run alot of mad cats and thors with 3 black pyothons. asults i run dishis and masakeares and a few mad 11C's
4th Wolf Guards, WIE
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WIE
08/03/01 05:31 PM
143.138.26.38
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because i running wolf in exile that is why i run them
4th Wolf Guards, WIE
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widowmaker
08/04/01 05:26 AM
207.162.163.19
|
If using standard configs, the Warhawks may be better. Using custom configs, I'll blow your Warhawk to the moon. IMHO, of course.
A normal person is just one you don't know real well.
widowmaker
What's your dice fetish?
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BA_Evans
09/10/01 03:34 PM
65.194.182.3
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I thought the Clans didn't use custom designs. The warrior doesn't own his mech and the commander decides who pilots which mech.
Does the commander decide what config the pilot uses?
Just looking for a little more info. on Clan battle tactics.
BA Evans
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BA_Evans
09/10/01 03:45 PM
65.194.182.3
|
How did your unit acquire four Wraiths? They are good mechs, but I would suspect that they are hard to purchase.
I prefer not duplicating mechs in my force. Give me different mechs with varying capabilities.
BA Evans
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Greyslayer
09/10/01 04:35 PM
137.172.211.9
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Depends on the Clan and unit involved. If you have Jade Falcon Sourcebook there is a Cluster that uses customs all the time (probably requires a larger support base than most other units as well as the unit belonging to Gamma Galaxy is very light). Still I personnally class the pilot's strictness to the omni-configuration to how honourable they are and since clanners strive to be more honourable than the others they as a group do not like changing a already successful omni-configuration.
Greyslayer
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BA_Evans
09/11/01 11:18 AM
65.194.182.3
|
Thanks for the info. I am an IS player and my Clan knowledge is very limited.
Are the Jade Falcons one of the more conservative (traditional) Clans?
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Greyslayer
09/11/01 04:25 PM
137.172.211.9
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Yes though it seems all Clans are fairly strict on customisation since it is work intensive and quite wasteful. Also less likely to happen in the IS particularly during the first few waves due to the lack of supplies to do such operations.
Greyslayer
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WIE
12/29/02 10:46 PM
143.138.26.38
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they usly go after my mediums and lights because they are a pain in any ones side when the battle starts. Not every one wants to play buy houner. When that happens i use my lights and mediums to draw them to my heveys and asults. When the chalenges get issiued i try to keep the stars together if i can to give supporting fire if need be.
another tacktic i love to use is use my mediums and jump cap heveys as a blocking force and force the enemy to engage my assults then i hit them from both sides.
4th Wolf Guards, WIE
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MadWolf
12/30/02 04:58 PM
134.53.28.152
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DHS are ok, But i think that they need to be more expensive. That way sticking to the Singles is a cost effective thing. I will admit that one of my friends makes mechs that are designed to disapate 5 more heat than they can create, but he does to it tacfully because he always will foot the price of an XL engine which is easyer to get hits on, and he plays that every pilot is for themselves and although the looses most battle's strategicly, he inflicts more damage per cap.
But if you know a player that just ups on the med lasers and DHS and armor, smack them, them kick there ass with horde of hussars.
As for hundred tonner's being more prevalant. There slow, and unless they have a damn good pilot in them, they wont survive, a king crab becomes king crap if it cant hit anything. 
Nothing is Impossible, It is only Improbable.
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spork
12/30/02 05:17 PM
24.208.151.50
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Personally, I don't like running anything that moves less than 5/8/5. So, Assaults are pretty much out of the question for me.
I only play level 1 and 2 games, so I am not familiar with too many of the level 3 rules, but in 1 and 2, fast mobile mechs have the advantage. People have mentioned that things like the XL engine give assaults even more power... well, lets say I love shooting at those big boys, they explode so nicely when their torsos are breached.
In level 1 play, it used to take all day for a medium/light mech force to take down a single assault mech. now, with so many of them packing XL engines, it takes much less time. Now, Mediums can carry almost as many weapons as the level 1 heavies, and can move even faster than before. Just keep the medium hoping at 7 hexes, and the assault is going to have a hard time hitting it. get in behind it, with a hand full of weapons, and eventually you will breach the armor, or get a couple of lucky head shots in.
The Assaults are a big waste of c-bills, if you ask me.
When I feel munchie, I retrofit clan ER-PPC's to my mechs, and really chew up the op-for
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Cadet
01/08/03 12:39 AM
206.102.34.64
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Does having a crapload of Super Assault 'mechs have a purpose? Maybe.
From a gamue universe standpoint, they would be becoming slightly more common, with the Clan's wanting more heavy units. Historically the Medium was the most common, but the percentages would have changed somewhat in IS units. Not so much that Assaults would be seen in every company, but more often than before. Between manufacturing and costs, they shouldn't be common at all.
Gamewise, the new breed of Assaults really aren't that much tougher. Sure they have more firepower thanks to the increased numbers of weapons and fewer heat problems thanks to DHS, but they almost always have an XL engine and that means quick death. The ones that don't still might not be able to use their weapons effectively since a lot of players don't have heat management skills.
The problem isn't in the FASA/WK designs. The problem comes when the 'Mech is a custom job. Between that and custom units there seems to be the loss of the idea of balance. I don't know how many custom 'Mechs I have seen that are in the 20+million CB range. No one can afford more than a few of them. And yet unit after unit is filled with them. They are so expensive and so hard to replace that commanders should keep them back for use at a certain time and place. Instead we get merc units chock full of them.
Bottome line is there are ways around the assault mech. If balance is used, they are fearsome, but not impossible to overcome. If balance isn't used, then what's the point of playing in the first place?
Does not play well with others.
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