Countergod
01/03/03 06:25 PM
128.165.156.80
|
okay I know we are beating a dead horse here, but I want to add a new dimension to this:
in February 2001, FASA, the company who made Battletech, Closed its doors and stoped production of Battletech. In the summer, Microsoft releases Mech Warrior 4. It has only its name on it like Bill Gates thought of the idea himself. No mention about FASA, or the company who a few months later bought the copyrights to Battletech: Wizkids. I looked into this, and found that Microsoft essentially pirated the name, they took advantage of the fact that Fasa didnt sell the copy rights before closing to produce the game and keep all the profits. So by every right, this is NOT a Mechwarrior game, as the name and concept Mechwarrior is controlled by Wizkids now and they had no say in the game being made. This was the same with Mech Commander II
The second thing I dont like about this game is the time line. Yes the Fed Com civil war happened and yes Katherine and her cronies were corrupt little *****'s but this game and especially Mech Commander II really screwed up the story line, and to fix it, Wiz Kids had to adopt things and partially change the storyline. this is especially true on Carver V (in Mech commander II) the Chaos march is a series of planets who were forced into independance when the Free Worlds League attacked in 3057. They took on thier independance and forught hard for it all through the war. There were NO steiner or Davion forces on planet since 3058 when the attacks ended.
Also, in Mech Warrior 4, House Steiner had WAY too much Clan tech. in Mech warrior 3 they had good excuses to use both Clan and Innersphere Tech, as you were fighting clan Smoke Jaguar and CSJ (and every other clan) does used salvaged inner sphere designs as second line (read garrison) forces. In the last mission of the origional MW4 game, you fave off with 8 Clan Mechs. In the real game, if a regiment were VERY Lucky (or were the Royal guards) they had 8 salvaged Clan Mechs. If we were to accept MW4, then EVERY last clan mech that the lyrans had were on Kentares!!!!! Does this make sense?
Next gripe: the so called Microsoft Mechs. these are ones that appeared first in MW4 and MC2 like the Thanatos, Mad Cat II, Argus, Chimira, Anubis, etc. These mechs in the game were over powered compared to the rest because while the rest of the mechs were based on real mechs, these were pulled completely out of bill gates' @$$. And to make things worse, Wiz Kids was forced to adop these mechs when it picked up the CBT line. thus, 3067 is littered with mechs who in Mw4 were awesome, but in 3067 were AWEFUL.
My next gripe is with the graphics. I am comparing to Mech warrior 3 for this. In mech warrior 3 you could see through the water and the water looked realistic. in this game the water is a dark blue that you cant see through and has no bearing to real water. in MW3, the terrain looked realistic, while in MW4 on the highest setting, I could still see the squares and other shapes used to make everything. In Mechwarrior 3, the Trees had dimension and could actually be shot at and make blow up, and the destruction looked realistic (to an extent). in this game, the trees are two 2dimensional pictures glued together and when you walk through them thier destruction was just totally unrealistic.
two more gripes then I am done. first, in MW4, you have no supply cars and things following you, I suppose you could say that you returned to the dropship after every mission, but that doesnt cut it in my mind. and barring that, how are you modifying your units? you need to be able to take apart the mech to edit it (except for Omnimechs which was the purpose of making them, not being able to put in different weapon types) This takes time, effort and money. in Mech warrior 3, it was plausable because you had a mobile repair bay running around with you (although I didnt really like that either). I like the idea in Mech warrior 2 Mercs better, where editing mechs cost money, and you could only edit on Outreach. And on a side note, in Mechwarrior 4 Mercs, you dont actually get to chooose your missions or see your money like a real merc (and in mechwarrior 2 mercs).
My final gripe is that I had to pay 40 dollars SIX MONTHS after the game was released!!! most computer games go down in price, but Mircosoft being the monopolistic bastards they are, wouldnt bring the price down. and to top it off, I hate Microsoft and I detest thier produces, so I feel violated that I had to buy these games. I know that I didnt have to buy them but after I saw that Wizkids was putting the mechs into 3067 I felt I had no choise, as i had missed something in technology and the storyline just like if i didnt buy a novel. NTM, I gave yet more money to the richest man alive for a disk that costs about 1 dollar to make and a shoddy manual that cost maybe 3 to make.
now that I am done griping I would like to add one kudos about Mechwarrior 4, though small it is. The Gause Rifle graphics look much better in this game than in any other game, and they look realistic from what the weapon is supposed to be (a metallic slug fired through magnetic induction at super sonic speeds).
Any comments either supporting or refuting are welcomed. and thank you for reading this long post where I think I ranted too much. 
***Chemistry is like art. One wrong move can really ruin your day!***
To: All other empire leaders
From: Maj. NevLord Madman (Mad Man's Marauders [STB] )
Subject: Hi Neveron
Date Sent: 7/12/3222 12:50:00 AM
May i just point out u all suck 
Maj. NevLord Madman |
BroCaptMaximus
01/03/03 06:25 PM
24.240.253.99
|
I knew that but I was under the impression after playing Black Knight that that your character from the first game had forcefully taken control of the planet and murdered/deposed "your sister". Maybe I'm mistaken, it's been a while since I played it last.
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Countergod
01/03/03 06:47 PM
128.165.156.80
|
that is certainly the impression you got, but the only way we can link the expansion to the origional game is if you dont rescue your sister. then your tech guy (I forgot his name) runs off and starts fighting you etc.
That is unless I am mistaken, and feel free to correct me if I am
***Chemistry is like art. One wrong move can really ruin your day!***
To: All other empire leaders
From: Maj. NevLord Madman (Mad Man's Marauders [STB] )
Subject: Hi Neveron
Date Sent: 7/12/3222 12:50:00 AM
May i just point out u all suck
Maj. NevLord Madman |
Arufirm
01/06/03 08:29 PM
217.229.245.238
|
for a short fun mw 3 and 4 are great i think.
but i had much more fun with mw2, mw2 gbl and mw2 mercs (i still have the undamadged boxes from them  )
and all i can say if there is a mw5:
i want my Masakari back 
that what doesn´t kill us makes us stranger
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NathanKell
01/06/03 10:20 PM
67.86.59.178
|
{looks at checklist}
Yep, perfect score. 
The only things you forgot (and understandably, since they're true in every MW...) are the fantastical weapon stats (different recycle times? But no change in damage per shot? Oy.) and the bloody NO MISSING non-floating, non-expanding, non-jiggling reticle. Feh.
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
Sid
08/26/03 04:06 AM
67.125.87.226
|
Ok...
Firstly, way back in 3025 tech, almost all of the mechs you would come across would have similar weapons on Mech chassis. They didnt have a lot of varients and different weapons combos. You had 60 ton mechs with only a few lasers and maybe a small srm launcher or something.
With the introduction of Clan Omni tech, you have more verital mechs, and omni hard points on mechs.
If you had a mech that used balistic weapons on one arm, then it would probably be easily fitted with a different balistic weapon because it would require a complete power coupling refit and taking out the ammo bays on the arm etc in order to put in say a PPC. The mech was disigned around an autocannon, requiring very little power, and would not be easily retrofitted with a power hog PPC.
With an Omni-mech, it's already built in for versatility with the advanced tech. You dont have to do a lot of retrofitting, because it has better power couplings and better use of space. Even the clan weapons take up less space and weigh less as well.
I would have liked Microsoft to use all the point systems as in all the tech manuals, as far as max armor points, weapon damage. Like they needed to make things work in the engine that they made. It's not going to be perfect.
As far as load-outs, I always use 2 Clan ER Large Lasers in any mech that I can. A few alphas with those, and pepper them with 2 SSRM-6 with many extra tons of ammo once they are critical. Does the job nicely. 2 ER Large Lasers will take out any vehicle for the most part.
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tgsofgc
10/17/03 07:12 PM
67.4.194.144
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Ok in my opinion Mechwarrior 4 was another slap in the face of "real" battletech and has only taken the series to a more arcady, fps place that scares me.
I'm going to try to keep this somewhat organized and hopefully readable, but please forgive me if I rant and ramble.
-Story:
Well the story plain sucked. First its set again in the far future of Battletech, a place where unfortunately Fasa has beengone for awhile and not been around to flesh out. This means we get Microsoft and Fasa interactive's (a subsidiary that despite the game's box never had much of a connection to the game company) creative take on events. This leads us on a quest to avenge our father's death and recapture our homeworld from a regiment of enemy forces. What do we have at our dissposal, a lance of medium mechs. The inheritly poorly fleshed out 1 dimensional story is only made worse as it is designed more around "scenario types" than a real story line. Also the acting that borders on high school melo drama is horrific.
-Clantech:
Well according to microsoft everyone has clantech, both in weapons, and in front line assault omni mechs? I guess microsoft would have us believe that at somepoint the clan's just decided to sell off the rest of their tech to the innersphere. this means even on this backwards planet far from the frontlines of the clan wars has nearly as many front line clan omni mechs on it as innersphere battlemechs. A great indicator that points this out is in the base game you not only start off in a shadow cat, you get a mad cat before an atlas.
another important point is Microsoft put nothing into the game to encourage players not to use clantech. In real battletech clantech is nearly impossible to repair in the innersphere, especially omni mech chasis made with advanced components. Instead this game in its fast and loose adaptation of superior technology makes it plain stupid to nearly ever play with any innersphere technology or mechs, except of course with some of their unbalanced Microsoft designs.
-Hardpoints:
Good concept gone horribly astray. The hard points were meant to do two things, one help balance mechs based on the weapons they could carry. Also they were suppose to impart a flavor to the various mechs.
Well this all went astray do to a few things. The first the larger mechs had all the larger hardpoints preventing smaller mechs from ever mounting the bulky weapons. The clan omni mechs with omni points made them even more superior, despite their extra tonnage they gained from things like endosteel and xl engines that weren't even really inlcuded in the game. Finally some mechs became godly due to their hard points, generally again these were large clan omni mechs. Among these mechs the Daishi and Nova Cat are by far the most dangerous in the game, both with good armor and many weapon options.
It is unbelievable to me that microsoft ever thought threw this system for more than a single confrence, because even a player extremely new to battletech knows that their already were rules in the rpg game to help balance customizations. Why microsoft didn't include some form of jury rigged customizations, aka maxtech/mechwarrior(the rpg), system is beyond me. Such a system would have allowed more flexability while still controlling the mech's feel.
-Equipment/Weapons/Armor:
Well fast and loose was the theme here. Nearly all the weapons changed their stats from battletech, and many in different ways. Please see the representation below, ppc.
PPC (Microsoft)
Range 650 meters
Damage 10
Heat 10
Recycle 6 seconds
PPC (REAL)
Range 18 hexes (540 meters)
Damage 10
Heat 10
Recycle 10 seconds
PPC (Micro, Adjusted Recycle Time)
Damage 16.67
Heat 16.67
Recycle 10 seconds
The net result is any balance between weapons and weapon ypes disappears. This is partially the fault of tinkered stats, partially the hardpoint system, and mainly the point and fire aiming system. All in all it makes weapons like he Clan Gauss Rifle, ER PPC, and Clan ER Large much better than most other weapons. This means the variety of good cutomizations becomes far more limited than one would guess. Special not should be made of mrms which are only effective in the game on immobile targets or ranges shorter than that of SRMs.
Other things of note. All mechs with jump jets can jump to the exact same height at the exact same speed. Many mechs, especially clan mechs, gain the benefits of extra weight from things like xl engines and endosteel while they aren't even included in the game. It would have been nice to balance some clan mechs with these more fragile equipment. Oh and the joys of pointless equipment. among them the extra heavy level 3 armors neither of which is balanced as in maxtech and instead offers minimal advantages despite weighing 30% more. Also the sensors are just stupid. I'd love to meat the military that invests in stealth jamming equipment that makes the unit easier for missiles to detect and lock onto... sigh smart one there. Oh did I mention ECM is completely useless, oh and Beagle is hardly worth the ton unless playing with all lrms.
-Multiplayer:
Munchkinism. Basically Microsoft has never done much to support fans, especially with popular franchises where it gets in, and cashes out. This means things like multiplayer are done very poorly with a very poor game locator software. Among its faults are the fact you must reconnect every time you eneter a game and leave it. Another fault is the fact that you have no way to view server settings other than number of players and current maps from the game lobby.
Also of special note is the extremely limited number of maps, and the fact that they all encourage very similiar "optimal" play styles. Third server settings allow players to tweak aspects of the game that lead it completely away from the battletech franchise. While the options of no heat and unlimited ammo may sicken me, I guess options are always good. Unfortunately the fact that you need good bandwidth to host games means a limited few players control most the servers so expect plenty of munchkin servers, where anything less than 70 tons should expect to die by 12 or so er large lasers every few seconds.
-Gameplay:
What happened to criticals? Namely your mech is pretty much behaves the exact same way as an avatar in a first person shooter. Namely no shots will knock out lifesupport, sensors, or hurt your engine. You may start limping when your legs get crunchy. Also loosing sections may result in loosing some weapons but thats about it. The result is scatter weapons now are basically pointless. The fact that you can aim an alpha strike at single location kinda gets on my nerves. If they want to have it so players can "aim" direct fire weapons perhaps they should at least make the weapons splash into other sections more often. This might even allow small mechs to stay alive for a few seconds. Oh yeah the great 100 ton mechs that can decelerate and stop basically as fast as 20 ton mech. Oh yeah and the fact that mechs can torso twist faster (in comparision to the view arc and angle) than any mechs move is nice too. I mean cause light mechs were so over powered they needed to make speed all but useless as a defense.
-Mech Selection:
Horrid. Ok so they decided to set it in the late years, so no level 1 mechs ok. Wait you mean we only get two classic battlemechs (Awesome and Atlas). Well I guess we can count the Mad Cat and Daishi too. So why didnt they put even the popular stand bys in. Oh they needed room for fictious mechs... sigh. Every mech game should include the following mechs, no exceptions:
Marauder
Urbanmech
Stone Rino
Nova
There are many others that would have been nice too, but those can wait for xpacks.
So how was the game:
Graphics: Pretty Good
Story: Horrid
Battlech Lore: Bad
Gameplay: ALright for a FPS, bad for a Mech similator, Horrid for a game using "Mechwarrior"
Multiplayer: Worse than any above, but at least they dont suck as bad as the bots
To fix the formula for the next game:
Technology should be more faithful, especially dont include late era tech, and "new technology. Namely no streak MRMs (LMAO, idiots!), or Bombast Lasers.
Maintain the difference between Clantech and Innersphere tech. If set in the innersphere dont make it as common as water. Also give players reasons not to use it.
Use a storyline already defined by FASA such that you dont have such bad writing.
Include a customization system, with maxtech style jury rigging.
Persistent battle damage. Non scripted salvage, heck this is easy.
Random mission generator, with co-operative play online.
More criticals, including engine hits, actuators (bouncier or harder to aim), weapons and *drool* ammo explosions
More non mech craft, come on vehicles are still very important and more common than mechs. Hech maybe we could get some aerospace fighters... (oh please dont make the tanks so fragile, even in base battletech they last longer than in MW4)
More mechs, with fewer made up mechs. (Especially the classics that they for some reason left out, urbanmech anyone?)
Hope that summed it up...
I find that 'pinpoint' accuracy during a bombing run increases proportionally with the amount of munitions used.
-Commander Nathaniel Klepper,
Avanti's Angels, 3058
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Cray
10/17/03 08:14 PM
67.8.169.86
|
Holy [censored], you tell'em!
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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widowmaker
10/18/03 02:38 AM
24.171.110.132
|
Yet another beautiful example of why Microsoft blows chunks.
The only good thing about Microsoft is: they've pissed so many people off, there's been a lot of progress made by people just trying to beat Microsoft.
widowmaker
What's your dice fetish?
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Sarge
11/06/03 08:38 AM
63.239.75.124
|
My favorite MW game thus far has been MW2-Mercenaries.
I liked that game because it made you work hard to build up a respectable force, starting from a lowly lone Commando! It also allowed you more choices than in any MW game which followed it. MW4 has too much clan tech, too limiting in gameplay, ignores most of the factions in Battletech. There are scores of I.S. mechs I'd like to play (Dragonfire, Tarantula, Banshee, Enforcer, Marauder) The new MW4:Mercs is the best of the MW4 games. My two favorite moments from MW4 Mercs was 1) Realizing I was playing in Solaris again ( hadn't since MW2:Mercs) and when I went on the first Hesperus II mission (Steiner) playing affiliated with the GDL the leader of the convoy I was escorting thanked me for the sacrifices of the GDL in defending their planet! WOOT! That was really cool.
Overall the graphics are better in MW4 but the gameplay has suffered. Limited choices, overpowered forces ( friendly & enemy), far too much clan tech running around in an Inner Sphere game, and no Air Support. I do like commanding 2 lances and hope the next edition allows a full company. And no one uses standard armor anymore?
-Sarge
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Arri
04/17/04 04:12 AM
24.70.95.205
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i dont truly HATE mech warrior 4 but there are things i think went down hill from 3 1 the mech lab its lame the mech warrior 3 was so much better 2 the aiming i hate having to twist the hole mech around and [censored] to do it i liked in 3 that the arms could move independetly from the torso so i dont have to fix it every time 3 the pulse laser its lame now its not even a pulse lazer anymore its a [censored] load of tiny lazers i liked it in 3 better 4 the graphics there batter in some parts but in otheres they are worse then 3 like for instence the missels there solid grey tryangles now with no detail mech 3 there was and omfg the ppl there peices of fing card board!!! you cant kill them and you cant do anything like in 3 its anoying and the trees are 2 peices of card board atached together wtf i dont know but i just think that 3 was a lot better then 4
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Thor_Mech
05/10/04 03:44 PM
199.239.45.2
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Lol, I can't count how many missiles and heavy Gauss slugs I've fired at PBI with no hits. It's sad, but kinda funny.
"Even after all these years, walking through the ranks of 'Mechs still gives me the chills"
- Intelligence Secretary Justin Xiang Allard
Outreach, 21, Sept 3051
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neven
05/23/04 03:23 AM
152.163.253.36
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you see, mechwarrior 4 was an embarassment to all the other games, as it ruined the entire attitude of gameplay for mechfreaks, the graphics were worse than mw3, and were in between mw2 mercs and mw3, and almost everything about it sucked, except the new mechs, and most of them still sucked, i mean come on, whats up with the limited slots, and everything else sucked, uncluding the intro, which was kinda cool and a step towards the mechwarrior movie, but everything sucked balls.
-***"ADAPT TO SURVIVE"***-
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Lone_Wolf_Radick
06/21/04 09:50 PM
65.1.53.170
|
I'm not sure what the prob is with MW4... sure it doesn't capture the whole essence of Battletech, much as Star Wars Galaxies falls well short of capturing the essence of the entire star wars universe, but it is great for what it is: a shoot em up involving some of the most popular (albeit limited customizing-wise and no friggin Ultra AC 20) chassis. I enjoy playing it online, and didn't even mind the single player storyline... I agree with those screaming for a game with a Clan storyline or even a Comstar storyline, if for no other reason than to see some new designs and hear a differnt point of view... cause by now we're all far too familiar with the FedCom civil war, right?
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Lone_Wolf_Radick
06/22/04 05:19 PM
65.1.53.170
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These are reasons to petition for a Battletech- Themed MMORPG, in my humble opinion, but that's another post entirely which I won't repeat here. I agree totally on the torso twist and aiming issues, and especially on the limited mechlab and the fact that the map editor was a separate download, and don't even let me get started on the mechpaks... sure the Kodiak rocks, but would a few more weapons and maps have been too much to ask? or a new campaign even? I mean really! but I guess it's all status quo for Microsoft games, who turned a nice profit despite the game's faults.
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Seo
06/23/04 11:17 AM
156.34.180.112
|
The problem with an MMORPG is that microsoft owns the rights to do anything like that and they would most likely release it quickly as another fast cashcow(like almost every other MMORPG out there).
"...and Wayward will keep telling us how great the feature will be even it does screw the whole neveron community like a Hentai Tentacle Monster screws a Japanese School Girl..."
-Seo
For a nice cash bonus in new empires use the promo code "Seo is God"
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Lone_Wolf_Radick
06/23/04 02:24 PM
65.1.53.170
|
Yeah, I know, it's like I said in my post in the "what do you wanna see in the next MW game" thread where I brought up the MMORPG idea, that it could be the revitalization of the franchise if done right, or the nail in the coffin if rushed to production... I don't see Microsoft doing so, but I would pray they released or subcontracted the rights to someone Like SOE or Square or even god help us EA who would take the time to incorporate as much of the Real BT universe as is digitally possible... But I guess we're both pipe dreaming...
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keiser
07/24/04 06:57 AM
63.233.232.31
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ok i dont know what has been said yet about somethings, i could just be repeating everything, but after for 5 years of playing mech2-3 having everything being the same way, if u wanted your atlas to have jumpjets it got jumpjets, that was cool and all having all your weapons in your legs and center torso, so if u lost an arm WHO CARES? ya well then here comes mech4, btw i like all the mech games, and the names timberwolf and mad dog and warhammer are changed to different names and have a totally different bio and all like the mad cat/timberwolf bio, the mad cat got its name because it looked like a catupult or what ever it said, ya well i like the mechlab both ways, in the old games u could be creative with only a tonnage limit, in the new game samething but with tonnage and type limit. so both games are stronger in certian points, i just wish that stuipid little bill would have kept the originall names, o and the mw4bk storyline, isnt it ur a different person in the game because i remember going up against the ein kid in one of the later leavels along with casey and the gonzoles dude, because somebody hirers u to kill all the people u fought with in the mwf vengence game, u have to kill casey and them. and the mmorpg+corrupt microsoft owner= nomore mw free online. thanks for readin this
I am the master of illogical logicalness or moil
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Brandx0
07/30/04 06:40 AM
24.207.34.161
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What? Spelling? Grammar? Punctuation?
Must be a problem with my web browser, it's showing me a post that seems to have none of the above and is completely incoherent. Maybe I'll try again with Opera
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BigBoss
08/05/04 01:51 AM
24.224.151.124
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Brandx0, STFU! You can see that this guy cant even spell at all, don't crush his prolly almost dead ambitions. 
Bringing Terror to the Comforts of Your Homes
~BB~
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Lone_Wolf_Radick
08/05/04 07:37 PM
129.33.119.12
|
In the absense of providing facts or advancing arguments, many turn to semantics or insults... Here it seems we have another attempt to do this... So what if it's spelled incorrectly and is as grammatically correct as "ain't not never"... You still understood it didn't you? MW4 was flawed yes, but name me ONE license based game that fully captures the essence of the universe it was modeled after? I play MW4 and MC2, and while I secretly hope for a more strategic Twitch/RTS player or a BT MMORPG, I make due with what's given and try to focus on the positive... If you don't like the game, don't play it... But it may be the last of the line, I'm not seeing any info from Microsoft or the Wizkids camp that a new MW is in the works...
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.
"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
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Brandx0
08/06/04 05:37 AM
24.207.34.161
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Actually my poking fun at the poor grammar of the post had nothing to do with my opinion of the game, I actually quite enjoy MechWarrior 4 at times, so don't misconstrue my post as anything but an unrelated insult, being as I agree with the boy to an extent (though I still think mechwarrior 3 was a superior game)
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Lone_Wolf_Radick
08/06/04 10:49 AM
65.1.42.9
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It was, and Microsoft knows this, but just doesn't care, and that saddens us all... Do you play MW4 online? If you do, look for me (you'll recognize the name I'm sure) on any of the servers that use heat and limited ammo (HLA)...
War Never Determines who is right, only who is left.
"I find your lack of faith disturbing-Darth Vader"
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