Karagin
01/31/04 06:29 AM
62.128.179.2
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Excellent point. I agree with you all the way.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
01/31/04 06:33 AM
62.128.179.2
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Very vaild points and it seems that some one at FP/FASA forgot about things in print already... 
No suprise there. I agree and have been saying that the manpower issues and cost have been part of the top 5 holes in the Jihad storyline since it came to light.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
01/31/04 06:40 AM
62.128.179.2
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Cray, I do understand WK put a messed up version of things, and I understand ALL of the preparation, what I don't see and can't buy into is HOW they (FASA/FP and the others involved in this) are doing things. Everything I know about logistical elements both military and civilian don't jive with the BS that is being fead to us by the writters and thus I am questioning it.
Again...the issues of overall cost and manpower are among the top 5 faults with the Jihad story line and tossing out comments like they have Terra or money from the FWL, it doesn't anwser anything it actually shows that either an anwser isn't there or the writters are lazy and don't have anything original to convince the reader to believe how they did things.
I am allowing for all scales of fighting...yet having some believability and bases in GAME FACTS not BS pulled from thin air is what I am asking for and so far nothing about the Jihad supports that. And as others have said the storyline should be based more on real and believable things then BS that doesn't even wash in a fictional setting.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Silenced_Sonix
01/31/04 10:43 AM
168.209.97.34
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So far, we have established three things:
1) there appear to be inconsistencies in the MWDA timleline]
2) some people are trying to help BattleTech by tried to come up with answers for the gaps
3) some people are having a royal time bashing the storyline, instead of doing anything constructive about it, like trying to help fill the holes.
Beyond that, this argument has established nothing, and I see no reason why any of you should continue with this foolishness. The past is exactly that - past. Nothing to do, but work towards the future if you wish to rectify the mistakes of the past.
Evolve or Die
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Karagin
01/31/04 11:19 AM
195.238.63.21
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I see, so pointing out the problems and trying to get the folks who are writting things for the game to see that the fans are not:
1) Stupid
2) Actually read the books that are put out.
3) CARE ABOUT THE GAME.
So how is asking for the folks that write the material to actually care enough to come up with believe storylines and realistic even in game terms as far as the story goes events and actions that lead to said events.
So those that ask questions or comment on the storyline are bashing it. Wow...I think we have heard that before and once again I will say no one is bashing anything, we are asking for those who are TPTB or talk to TPTB to listen and see that the current take on the Jihad and other areas of the storyline are not selling with us the fans for the most part and if holding the folks who write the game and storyline to higher standard then your average Sci-Fi game is bashing things then forgive us for caring and such.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Silenced_Sonix
01/31/04 01:25 PM
168.209.97.34
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There is an old saying that goes: "Only critize that which you can improve"
Sure, looking for bugs and inconsistencies is fine, but hammering on them without offering a viable alternative is pointless. That way, the problem stays unresolved, and nothing constructive can happen.
Evolve or Die
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Karagin
02/01/04 11:45 AM
195.238.43.89
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Things is when folks have offered ideas or suggested changes certain folks who are buddies with TPTB have jumped all over them and the results are not pretty.
By pointing out the areas that are the problems one would think the folks writting the materal would see that the fans do care and want something better not something that is a rehash of similar and over used plot lines.
And if it takes harping on it to get them to fix it then so be it. And I can fix the story line...it's simple. Drop the whole Jihad deal completly and use the FC Civil War to set up a Fifth Succession War type of thing or even better, back up to around the time the Jaguars were wiped out and redo things from there, keeping the Clans as a threat to the IS and maybe having the FWL and CapCon fall out over the wedding of Sunny and Isis...plenty of things for them or anyone to run with, without having to go the route of hidden armies or WMDs...but I guess by making these suggestions I am doing nothing but critizing the writters and all... 
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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JStallion
02/02/04 04:02 PM
69.47.164.192
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i agree with karagin about pretty much everything on here
but
have they ever gone back and redone something in battletech? im asking because i havent been in depth with it for a really long time. but theyd probably get flammed for redoing something once its been set. you can still add on to this instead of going back to pre-operation bulldog. i personally loved the clans and eliminating clan smoke jaguar, the fedcom civil war, capellean con. taking back st.ives and many other things that happened. the whole jihad thing is extremely stupid as is MWDA. clay ive read a lot about MWDA seeing if it was soemthing id want to get into, read some novels on it and looked at the sites a ton, but its just stupid and childish.
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tgsofgc
02/03/04 02:07 AM
67.4.199.2
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Major Revisions: Not Really
Minor Revisions: Yes
For instance alot of the early clan information was revised continuously. Sometimes under the guise of "as we learn more." A classic example are the early release Omnimechs which had different stats. So namely they may continually revise the Jyhad but as long as they move forwards in battletech the basic gist of it will likely still ocure. Note though you don't have to use it in your games....
I find that 'pinpoint' accuracy during a bombing run increases proportionally with the amount of munitions used.
-Commander Nathaniel Klepper,
Avanti's Angels, 3058
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Thor_Mech
02/20/04 12:45 AM
205.187.181.101
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I dunno. I don't really like the new BT. I mean, I haven't really found any characters to like (or 'mechs for that matter. keep your Jupiter. I'd rather take a Dire Wolf or Warhawk) There aren't any legends like Kai, Phelen, or Natasha. We get Tara Cambell, but it just seems kindof lackluster having one Battle/omni 'mech then throwing together a lance of agromechs. What I don't like is the emphasis on vehicles. I mean, 'Mechs are the kings of the battle field. I want to read about things like the defeat of the Falcon Guards on Twycross or the fall of Khan Garth Radick of the Wolves on Tukayyid. This series is really starting to disappoint me. I still really like the original Battletech, owning even the card game, but I'd rather see a movie on the Blood of Kerensky trilogy or the Warrior Trilogy. On a side note, Battletech lost one of its greatest authors in Michael A. Stackpole. Why did you forsake us?
"Even after all these years, walking through the ranks of 'Mechs still gives me the chills"
- Intelligence Secretary Justin Xiang Allard
Outreach, 21, Sept 3051
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cmryan
02/21/04 11:01 AM
4.12.82.110
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Hello,
I have read through this thrread and would like to offer some information. On page 26 of the Intelligence Operations Handbook the entry for Komandant General Sasha George of the Lohengrin states he was an orphan and marked for the Lohengrin by the age of 5 years old.
It is a given that wars produce orphans. The Clan Invasion and the FedCom Civil War can be expected to produce a bunch of orphans. Young children are easy to mold. So I think that Word of Blake could be adopting orphans and indoctrinating them in the Word of Blake. The same way that the Lohengrin recruits and indoctrinates orphans into the service of House Steiner. This does not answer the question of how they can afford to finance an operation like this, or if they can keep this recruiting a secret.
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Anson
04/09/04 05:36 PM
129.101.162.254
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Ahhh, it's nice to see that some things never change. 
Anson
LHJ
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Hellfire_for_Hire
06/04/04 03:19 PM
206.212.15.100
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Quote:
Quote:
Once again I ask you since you have again skipped it, WHERE did they get their man power from to pilot all of the mechs?
Finally, they have Terra, population 6 billion. What's it take to man 100 mech regiments? 10,800 mechwarriors? You don't need any of those recruiting facilities in the FWL or elsewhere if you tap the Terran labor pool. Finding 1 million recruits on a planet that has its telecommunications and media controlled by WoB should be easy. The US military is able to get several million employees out of a much smaller labor pool, yes? And, hey, WoB inherited a Comstar-run government that's older than US - Terrans have been addled with Blake's message for over two hundred years...
I wouldn't be so quick to assume that Terra is a huge fan of WoB, enough of one anyway to just pour millions of people into WoB uniforms. First, it is clear that ComStar had a very hands-off policy toward Terra. There would surely be some indoctrination (e.g. "It is only because of Blessed Blake's foresight that you get to live on the jewel of Terra instead of the hellhole of the Successor State..."), but WoB would not have that credibility. After all, the citizens of Terra knew first hand about the reformation following Op. Scorpion and might have thought free exchange of information and opening of archives was a good thing. Better than the old toaster-worshiping regime. A few years later that old regime shows up blasting everything in sight, garrisoning the planet, rooting out traitors (and probably suspected traitors).
Really, it comes down to the question of what would the average Terra's incentive to join WoB be? If Terra is still essentially hands-off (with a few minor inconveniences now that WoB is in charge), there there isn't any. If Terra is being forced to do what WoB wants (back to the bad ol' days of toaster-worshiping ComStar with checkpoints and random searches of citizens for good measure), there should be serious resistance to WoB's attempts, maybe even armed insurrection (or at least supplying ComStar guerrillas with assistance).
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Dauragon
09/12/04 06:47 PM
4.233.179.177
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Terra has 6 billion and the IS houses have populations around a trillion each?
Do you realize that this Jihad thing is today akin to Singapore magically being abile to pull out a military force capable of defeating the US, EU, Japan, China and Russia?!?!?
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Karagin
09/15/04 11:48 PM
195.238.38.68
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I believe that in the original Star League book there is a quote about a secret being something sweet and nice and losing it is like doing something with that special person in your life or something close to that. NOTHING remains a secret if more then one person knows about it.
As for the orphan idea, it has possibilities but even that one has limits. Again for them to get the army they need they would have to be planning this since before the Clan invasion and as I pointed out above the idea of keeping that secret isn't something that would last this long.
Also when you add in the money issue, the need for bases and the fact that you have to actually support and maintain something like this it really doesn't add up. The idea of WoB doing something to mess up the IS isn't a bad story plot, in fact it would be something right up their alley, but not on the scale FP and WK and FASA have chosen to go with.
The whole BT universe has a large playing feild and some areas could have been the vehicle to adjust and move the universe forward, but as has been told to me countless times, in your game do as you want...after all it's all for fun and fun is the key word.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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