Phred
Sergeant
Reged: 01/20/12
Posts: 174
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How are we doing?
#164322 - 02/21/12 01:59 PM (161.184.189.112)
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A poll for all the new players to find out how Neveron is to play!
If you have started an empire in the last few months (and never played before), we want to know how Neveron is to play.
Thanks!
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Hythos
Sergeant
Reged: 05/09/10
Posts: 148
Loc: USA
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Re: How are we doing?
[Re: Phred]
#164346 - 02/21/12 03:52 PM (137.78.94.87)
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First of all - Neveron allows something for Battletech fans to delve into, where they might not have had an opportunity with the board-game. (As with myself - I have had great difficulty - over 15+years - in finding people interested in, or having free-time to, consistently play Battletech - in my area). I understand that it's 'loosely based on battletech', but it's the closest thing (by a mile) that I've been able to find.
I have been playing for two years, and have many, many more questions to be answered. I think there are things that work well, and a few that probably do, but need a bit of clarification.
It's perfectly clear that Neveron is *heavily* biased towards long-term players (which is fine), and the nature of the game simply makes it difficult for new players to become established. Yes, spending a little money to purchase "DP" will allow a new player to catch up - and actually compete with new players.
So, this breaks down Neveron into a basic example of Pay-2-Win... which, is fine, for some people.
However, it won't keep new players around unless they were to spend more real money and be competitive to that next new level...
A new player can purchase some NevCash to build up to, say Level3 infrastructure, purchase 4/4 pilots and some mechs, and be some-what competitive against long-term players.
A "free-to-play" player could potentially be at roughtly that same point, after about two years worth of build-up, while fighting, losing, maybe gaining a little, against other long-term players.
But where is the fun?
Would it be more fun to start playing a new game with a basic understanding and spend $50 to become reasonably secure? Sure. Many of us do, with AA and AAA game-titles. Though, this most likely ONLY satisfy those persons interested in PVP-style of game-play - and not do much for the 'Civilization'-style of players (which, is the second half of Neveron).
What kind of game is Neveron?
For new players to continue to join, they must be given something they can rely upon to always have available to them. If a new player were to join, spend some money, then lose everything they had worked towards, they more than likely won't stay... and yes, Neveron is unforgiving in that regard. I have had that happen three times - and have only remained, because I had a fair amount of research built up (only to find out years after starting, that the "great amount" of research ammounted to .16% of what's needed to produce the first mech - yet alone the time and cost needed to manufacture one.)
A "carrot on a stick" idiom best fits Neveron, and unless any new player to find Neveron is as much of a self-masochist as the rest of us, there must be some form of reward along the way to retain them.
In CONTRAST to other subscription or Pay-to-Play games, Pay-to-Win DOES support new players the strongest. This DOES support the game itself through donations and income for the developer/owner. Though, this does NOT promote a Newbie-friendly atmosphere. This does NOT promote longevity. Consider Project Entropia. It was started as a real-currency economy to where players can purchase in-game money with real world currency, buy items and equipment to excel in-game, but must also pay a heavy expense for item degredation upon use. If a player is lucky enough to be exceedingly successful, they can actually produce income - and again, exchangeable for real-world currency. Entropia is not meant for a new player to only spend a small amount of money, or any 1-time purchase. Entropia is not a game for someone with addiction as any average person will lose money - but also because there is very little that a new player can do within the game without paying more into it, or they must virtually quit playing.
Neveron comes close to the Pay-to-Win mechanic. Though, for the 'health' of Neveron (perhaps even its' existance), this is needed. It will allow the game to remain in operation - may allow the game to gain a few players - but the populous won't be happy, without spending more money.
Conversely - if Neveron weren't as cut-throat as it is, necessity to donate in order to be competitive, some of that 'suspense', fun, and enjoyment may be lost, though new player additions - and retention - would be much higher... at a cost to the developer/owner.
A few solutions would be to make Neveron more fast-paced, to where the ability produce mechs can be achieved in a relatively short period of time (6 months, for example), or, perhaps wars be more forgiving and "care-bear" by being less permanent - thus forsaking long-term, greatly established players, in favor of perhaps, gaining a few dozen new.
I might have been inclined to start off two years ago as 'Pay-to-Win', but I was (and still am) uncomfortable because there is still so much I don't understand about Nev. In-game chat / messaging would be better if explained or expanded. Descriptions of what's what, and what is more ideal... Starting with MG jeeps is OK, but not knowing those MG jeeps will be trashed against anyone with a Skulker, or Hunter is game-breaking.
Gotta go for now. I hope any of this is informative.
* Edit - I haven't voted (no offense) - Though I have an opinion that's too mixed, but heavily biased because it is something Battletech...
Edited by Hythos (02/21/12 03:54 PM)
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Phred
Sergeant
Reged: 01/20/12
Posts: 174
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Re: How are we doing?
[Re: Hythos]
#164354 - 02/21/12 04:16 PM (161.184.189.112)
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No offense taken at all.
I really appreciate you taking the time to post from a relatively newbie perspective. It has made me think about some things a bit differently.
Thanks.
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Remy
Newbie
Reged: 12/23/03
Posts: 7
Loc: Connecticut
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Re: How are we doing?
[Re: Phred]
#164719 - 03/07/12 11:41 AM (76.239.130.152)
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I'm writing from the perspective of a player who was there in the early days (not super duper early, but I remember factions being put in and was already a mid level empire for the day) and is just coming back after almost eight years away. I sold my lvl 11 and a few other empires mid 2004.
I am starting fresh, but at least with friends and my past experience. I've found that the biggest obstacle is that too much of the interface is misleading due to changes being put in but the old interface or information being left up as well. I go to do something in a way that seems logical and it just fails. Some of the new game mechanics seem overly complex and convoluted to me and I don't see how they really improve things from where it was 8 years ago.
Honestly, I feel that in many ways the game has gone backwards in function. 8 years ago I left because I just didn't want to be tied down to it anymore, I was sick of having to pay attention and keep on top of events and with the changes that were going in you either were at war almost constantly to some degree or you were at risk of Pirates, which required a lot of attention and time. Real life just didn't allow the constant babysitting of the empires.
HOWEVER, the game worked in terms of the mechanics.
--I could reliably train pilots and know they weren't going to randomly get worse instead of better.
--I could trade infra between empires of essentially any size as long as I was willing to pay the attack costs, and I could expect a reasonable loss rate on that infra along the way. This made it worthwhile to fight and capture infra and then sell/trade it to other empires rather than burn it down.
--I could run as big an army as I could afford, without arbitrary limits making it pointless to focus on my military and go fight someone bigger than me to capture infra.
--Lots of other little quirks that have crept in.
Don't get me wrong, not all the changes are bad, but most of it feels half done and with the old stuff still half there, confusing the issue.
I agree that Nev needs something to draw in and retain new players. Currently, starting as a truly new player would absolutely be horrible due to the confusing interface (mostly the remnants of past stuff, the layout and such is just fine, but look at training for example). The very very slow and painful start is another drag, but I'm not in favor of huge shortcuts to major empire status. I think speeding up the organic growth rate for empires 0-5 maybe would be good. Most of this could be done by changes to research costs, starting abilities like being able to build CF50 right off the bat. I feel that the larger SES is excellent as a starting point here. I do think there needs to be changes to the FFA situation, right now it's essentially impossible for a new player to make any money in there. Maybe empires 3 and under who are in there will always get paid as if there was money in the pot? Right now I've found it more frustrating than helpful and I know how to fight. More often than not it's a cash loss over any length of time because the pot is empty until someone else joins, they have a fresh unit and probably larger than mine due to empire size differences, and they finish my already damaged unit with little trouble. They get MOST of their cash back, minus the little I got while they killed me, and someone else, maybe me, joins in and kills them...
by the time its done, no one's really ahead.
*shrug* Right now, in my opinion, the biggest need is to visibly improve the current configuration. Remove legacy artifacts from the pages, improve documentation and stability. Get the game functional as it stands now. After it works properly is when you start looking at changes.
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Knives by Remy on Facebook - Custom knives
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KJI_3x6
Lieutenant
Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 650
Loc: Minnesota, North Korea
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Re: How are we doing?
[Re: Remy]
#164733 - 03/07/12 08:54 PM (76.17.189.42)
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Quote:
*shrug* Right now, in my opinion, the biggest need is to visibly improve the current configuration. Remove legacy artifacts from the pages, improve documentation and stability. Get the game functional as it stands now. After it works properly is when you start looking at changes.
this is so true, and a lot of people i believe in various ways many people have said this, but instead, we got codefisted with degradation.
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My d*** rumble in the jungle; your d*** got touched by your uncle.
My d*** double feature screen; your d*** went straight to dvd.
ME > you
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Katrar
Major
Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 1314
Loc: Seattle, WA USA, Terra
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Re: How are we doing?
[Re: KJI_3x6]
#164734 - 03/07/12 09:35 PM (24.17.137.174)
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Completely 100% agree. And thats the thing, thats the entire reason that codefest was even supposed to happen. Fix bugs. Not create new even more broken systems. The point was to bug fix, patch holes and stabilize. By SM's own words. Which, of course, he now pretends he never said.
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HoC Gaming - Come war with us!
The HoC Archive - Neveron's definitive historical document
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buc
Captain
Reged: 08/12/05
Posts: 710
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Re: How are we doing?
[Re: Katrar]
#164735 - 03/08/12 12:47 AM (219.89.140.105)
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Didn't you know that building deg fixed all the problems? Players just dont like change thats all.
:P
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KJI_3x6
Lieutenant
Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 650
Loc: Minnesota, North Korea
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Re: How are we doing?
[Re: buc]
#164744 - 03/08/12 10:54 AM (76.17.189.42)
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if you don't like it, there is the door, don't let it hit you in the **** on the way out.
am i doing it right?
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My d*** rumble in the jungle; your d*** got touched by your uncle.
My d*** double feature screen; your d*** went straight to dvd.
ME > you
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