On vehicle rules...

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Bob_Richter
11/02/01 02:21 PM
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No, calling you a fool justifies my not taking offense at your slander.

You are a fortunate fool, fool.
:)



-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
Karagin
11/02/01 02:23 PM
63.23.175.251

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Bob are you taking a Physic's class? All experiments have an active and controlled part...here we are doing the controlled to see if your theory is true IN ALL cases.

Your points are that ALL vehicles are better then mechs and mine are that vehicles suck as written when compared to mechs.

Level 2 is fine since that is standard tournement legal Battletech and I wouldn't want you crying foul over some lack of having an out or something similar.



Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Bob_Richter
11/02/01 02:23 PM
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"Shut up" is not an insult, it is a command.

And you WERE using a form letter.

We are now off-topic, and I am in the process of shutting up if you will merely stop badgering.


-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
Bob_Richter
11/02/01 02:25 PM
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Don't try to tell me what my point was.

I KNOW what my bloody point was.

Are you saying you have no quarrel with my point as stated (rather than as percieved by you?)

If that's so, I have no quarrel with you.


-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
Karagin
11/02/01 02:25 PM
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Sure what ever Bob, you were repeating your self and yet you won't even admit that.

And Bob, I don't take orders from you so please stop thinking you can give them. And your last line could be taken as a threat to my person...so maybe you should stop and consider what you are typing in the future...

Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
11/02/01 02:26 PM
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I have a problem with your idea of vehicles being better then mechs, when the rules DON'T support that. Does this help?

Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Bob_Richter
11/02/01 02:27 PM
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I've taken physics. And biology. And chemisty.

Control has nothing to do with the point at hand. We are establishing the normal state of affairs, not modifying it.

Furthermore, we are not making an experiment, we are having a contest. You cannot disprove my thesis without trying against BOTH hypotheses, can you not see this?


-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
Karagin
11/02/01 02:28 PM
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Nope this is not over. The battle will prove things. May I suggest you spend the weekend getting to know your book vehicles, which you need to post so I can see what you are going to use, really well so that you can't use the crutch of I have not used that before etc...as your way out of admitting your idea and theory is flawed.

Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
11/02/01 02:30 PM
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Your point was all vehicles are better then mechs for the reason you posted, and so with that in mind your theory should be vaild all the time if it correct, and if it is then BOOK units will do nicely and fairly.

Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Bob_Richter
11/02/01 02:30 PM
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My point is not that. My point is that a properly designed and implemented vehicle force can consistently defeat a given force of 'Mechs, given the present rules.

Do you quarrel with this point?

Yes or no?

I will quarrel with the point you're quarreling with.

"even though the rules support it" introduces a contradiction, making it logically false.

Surely you don't think I'm fool enough to present an absurdity as my thesis?


-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
Karagin
11/02/01 02:32 PM
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You are saying that vehicle not a force of vehicles are the equal of mechs as you listed the reason...can you please stop trying to add to things and stick to your original point?

And yes Bob, based on what I know of you, you would use the rules allow it if it means you win...

Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
11/02/01 02:33 PM
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The only fool here is you Bob....and you are still slandering me by doing so...

Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Bob_Richter
11/02/01 02:39 PM
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Damn it, I KNOW WHAT MY OWN DAMNED POINT WAS.

Stop putting words in my mouth. It's a really annoying habit.

Answer my question. My point, as stated....do you quarrel with it?

>>>Your point was all vehicles are better then mechs for the reason you posted,<<<

This would be as MIND-NUMBINGLY IDIOTIC as claiming that any 'Mech was as good as any other. Both 'Mechs and vehicles can be poorly designed, and this decreases their efficiency. A Pike (a notoriously bad vehicle) would be easily defeated by a Masakari, true?


-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
Karagin
11/02/01 02:40 PM
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I agree. But since he wants to here are the mechs I took all standard mechs straight from the TROs. No changes:

Highlander
S-hawk
Panther
Falcon

Now one would think that Bob's comment that vehicles can beat mechs would apply even to book units, but he wants to use custom home units...talk about stacking the deck...

Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
11/02/01 02:44 PM
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Yes I am against it because the rules as written don't back up your points.

Nothing you said gives vehicles any advantages over mechs in the long run since they are hurt severly by the to hit table and the fact that the damage is all applied to one area each and every time the vehicle is hit. Then add in the other facts like a lose of a location means the vehicle is dead hurts them as does the internal crits which for the most part takes them out of the fight for any number of reasons.



Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Bob_Richter
11/02/01 02:50 PM
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Good. Then to prove your point, you have to fight against my customs, do you not see this?

This is because of my claim that FASA vehicles are NOT well designed.


-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
Bob_Richter
11/02/01 02:51 PM
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Slander revolves only around a point that can be proved and is detrimental to one's reputation.

You cannot disprove my claim that you are a fool, and it is my right to believe so.


-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
Karagin
11/02/01 02:53 PM
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You are nuts...your point is that this applies to all vehicles vs mechs, either go with the Book units fighting each other or post a new arguement on the idea that the vehicles can be imporved or some thing...cause you are blowing a lot of smoke here...

If you want a custom fight then I get custom mechs...or is that not fair?

Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
11/02/01 02:54 PM
63.23.175.251

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And your threats can be taken as more then just words do remember that...

And can you prove I am a fool or are you presitting that your opinon is fact again?

Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Bob_Richter
11/02/01 02:56 PM
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Again, Karagin, I have stated my thesis. Will you dispute with me what that statement was?

I will state it for you again, in the simplest form I can imagine.

Given that a vehicle is properly designed, and given that it is used with appropriate skill, it can consistently defeat a 'Mech of equal tonnage.

I ask you again, do you quarrel with this thesis? If not, we have no argument and this whole thing was a simple misunderstanding.

Positing an absurdity does not give me an advantage in an argument, unless my opponent accepts it as true, at which point I can prove anything.


-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
Karagin
11/02/01 02:59 PM
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YES I quarrel with it because the vehicle construction rules leave out things that should be common on vehicles and the rules dealing with damage to the vehicles favor the mechs.

Can you prove that this wrong?

Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Bob_Richter
11/02/01 02:59 PM
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>>>You are nuts...<<<

Only if you're a fool...and ad hominem will not help you here.

>>>your point is that this applies to all vehicles vs mechs<<<

How many times do I have to clarify this before you understand?

NO IT DOESN'T!


>>>If you want a custom fight then I get custom mechs...or is that not fair?<<<

Go for it. Give me your designs.

This is certainly included in my point. (a given force of 'Mechs need not be book 'Mechs)


-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
Bob_Richter
11/02/01 03:00 PM
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I have not threatened you.

I have NEVER threatened ANYONE on these forums.

Kindly cease your slander.

No, my opinion is not fact, but I have a right to it. I consider you a fool. Fair?

I mean...after all...you consider me deranged or something.


-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
Karagin
11/02/01 03:02 PM
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IF a mech force doesn't need to be Book mechs to prove your point then way are so against using the book vehicles? Your point should be valid on all counts with a given vehicle force...

I can email you the stats on Sunday evening...

Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
11/02/01 03:03 PM
63.23.175.251

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Bulllshit Bob your line about premeantly shutting me up is a threat, but coming from a know nut case I quess we can make some adjustments.

As soon as you drop the slander your self son.

Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Bob_Richter
11/02/01 03:06 PM
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no, the vehicle force needs to be properly designed to satisfy my first proposition.

It is my contention that book vehicles are not.


-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
Bob_Richter
11/02/01 03:08 PM
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I never said anything about "shutting you up", permanently or otherwise.

I merely told you to shut up. Totally different thing.

>>>As soon as you drop the slander your self son.<<<

I have not slandered you, only given you my honest opinion of you.






-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
Bob_Richter
11/02/01 03:11 PM
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I can prove that it does not detract significantly from my point. Thus the battle. With customs.


-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
Bob_Richter
11/02/01 03:14 PM
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>>>Now one would think that Bob's comment that vehicles can beat mechs would apply even to book units<<<

I can beat you with stock vehicles.

However, if you beat me, you do not prove YOUR point (more correctly, you do not disprove mine through exclusion), thus I would suggest you make an allowance for BOTH of my premises.

>>>talk about stacking the deck...<<<

That's precisely the idea, old chap.

The point is to prove that I *CAN* stack the deck.



-Bob Richter
A dead primate is nobody's ancestor.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
Korbel
11/03/01 07:27 AM
206.152.237.34

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Ok... take a tank and a mech... both with say 10 tons of armor a targeting computer and a Guass rifle... tank has a turrent to it has 2 tons of Armor in each location PLUS a few internals...
The mech... can divide that up... but regarless It only has 9 points armor in head with 3 internals...
Fire a Guass at Each one... both hit... Hitting the Mechs Left leg... and it hits the tanks right side... Tank moves to protect that side... Mech can't protect ANY side except front and back torso's... Next hit... Tank get's struck in fornt side no biggy... Mech loses It's leg... Down he goes....

Ooops lucky shot on each... Turrent locked facing left... wow... now it can strafe fire rather effectively
Ooops there goes the Mech's head Flying into the Wild blue yonder


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