Vapor
Lieutenant
Reged: 11/15/02
Posts: 699
Loc: Guam
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Re: DP BOYCOTT VOTED ON AND CONFIRMED IN CHAT VOTE HERE
#48878 - 02/02/03 12:24 AM (202.128.69.122)
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I think CounterGod's point (and a few others that I have seen) is that this will become a major set back for smaller empires. Larger empires will be able to make the switch without too much trouble, but smaller empires will be hurting. For example, it would cost my level 2 empire $87,000,000 to purchase the crews and EV's needed to have the same BP that I currently have. My empire has slightly over a quarter of that amount right now. Yes, disbanding my infantry will remove a large portion of my expenses, but the morale I would lose by doing so would make most of that effect pointless. Plus, I will be spending $72,000 every day on maintenance for the crews and EV's, which is not much less than I what I am paying right now for my infantry.
Ok, that's costs. Now for building speed. Those prices I quoted are for three level 4 crews, with EV's. I currently have 131 BP/nevday. Those 3 crews would give me 135 BP/nevday. That's 45 BP/nevday/crew. I couldn't even build a 25 CF, 4 level residential, with a basement in a nevday, anymore. It would take over 3 nevdays to build a commercial of the same size, and more than 8 nevdays to build a research facility. True, they will still get built in less than a real day, but each building will take longer to build. And if I suddenly have to constantly build 3 buildings at a time in order to keep my construction crews busy, I will be losing money even faster.
So basically, my level 2 empire will be, for all intents and purposes, crippled.
Personally, I don't see why Randy & Co. feel they have to change the construction rules. I am perfectly happy with them the way they are, and I don't think they need to be changed. I doubt they'll listen to me, though, and they will probably go through with this foolish notion of using construction crews.
As to the DP boycott that was proposed, I am not going to vote on that subject. Whether or not I continue to donate money is up to me, and me alone. I have donated in the past, and have been happy with the game so far. If this new idea is implemented, I will probably be hard-pressed to find a reason to donate again, though that will not be because someone has called for a DP boycott.
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"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
Edited by Vapor (02/02/03 12:40 AM)
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Vapor
Lieutenant
Reged: 11/15/02
Posts: 699
Loc: Guam
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Re: DP BOYCOTT VOTED ON AND CONFIRMED IN CHAT VOTE HERE
#48882 - 02/02/03 12:52 AM (202.128.69.122)
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In reply to:
>After fiddling with the numbers a little I discovered that a level 4 crew with 4 EVs is, yknow, 45 BP. Which works out to a 150cf w/ Baseement res in exactly 1 RLDay. If you want to build comms at the same time, have 1 crew per comm and .5 crews per residential, then they will get done in 2 RLDays at the same time. Tho, a pure 450 BP crew might be nice.
I'm not quite sure where you are getting .5 crews from, since as near as I can tell, you can't break up the crews, and can only use one crew per building under construction. Did I miss something?
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"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
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Vapor
Lieutenant
Reged: 11/15/02
Posts: 699
Loc: Guam
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Re: DP BOYCOTT VOTED ON AND CONFIRMED IN CHAT VOTE HERE
#48883 - 02/02/03 01:03 AM (202.128.69.122)
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I have never said I'd like to have guys with shovels, and whenever I have heard someone say it, I always laughed at them. If you ask me, the system works now, and doesn't need to be changed.
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"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
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Vapor
Lieutenant
Reged: 11/15/02
Posts: 699
Loc: Guam
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Re: DP BOYCOTT VOTED ON AND CONFIRMED IN CHAT VOTE HERE
#48884 - 02/02/03 01:09 AM (202.128.69.122)
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In reply to:
but in any case infantryw ill get a complete overhaul sometime after crews are done.
The key word being after. And knowing Randy & Co., noone will be told what the new infantry will be like until the changes are implemented, or just before they are implemented. By that time, everyone will have dumped their now practically useless infantry items on a severely depressed market and lost tons of money from the sales.
If Randy & Co. decide to go through with this foolish construction crew idea, it would be better to implement the infantry changes at the same time as the construction crews so that the infantry doesn't lose it's value completely.
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"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
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Vapor
Lieutenant
Reged: 11/15/02
Posts: 699
Loc: Guam
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Re: DP BOYCOTT VOTED ON AND CONFIRMED IN CHAT VOTE HERE
#48885 - 02/02/03 01:13 AM (202.128.69.122)
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In reply to:
If you could afford to buyt hat inf you can easily afford to buy EVs. Most empries CAN afford them. THey just dont want to.
I'm afraid this is not the case. I have two level 2 empires, and both of them would be extremely hard-pressed to purchase EV's. Both of them might be able to manage to buy one EV every RL week, though that would severely limit any other actions they might need to take (such as defend themselves from attacks).
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"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
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TheDeadlyShoe
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 06/22/02
Posts: 1621
Loc: Redmond, WA
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Re: DP BOYCOTT VOTED ON AND CONFIRMED IN CHAT VOTE HERE
#48888 - 02/02/03 01:49 AM (4.40.153.191)
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In reply to:
Ok, that's costs. Now for building speed. Those prices I quoted are for three level 4 crews, with EV's. I currently have 131 BP/nevday. Those 3 crews would give me 135 BP/nevday. That's 45 BP/nevday/crew. I couldn't even build a 25 CF, 4 level residential, with a basement in a nevday, anymore. It would take over 3 nevdays to build a commercial of the same size, and more than 8 nevdays to build a research facility. True, they will still get built in less than a real day, but each building will take longer to build. And if I suddenly have to constantly build 3 buildings at a time in order to keep my construction crews busy, I will be losing money even faster.
I'd like to say that no level 2 needs anywhere near that many BP. You are already outrstripping your building capability. Actually. The morale drop cancels out a lot of the cost drop, but not much. Utilizing mass infantry disbanding I ahve boosted several of my empires incomes by not inappreciable amounts.
When were you ever building a 25 cf 4 level residential in one nevday? You were, hopefully, always building them in groups. There is about zilch need for level 4 crews with EVs if all you want to construct is 25 CF structures. A level 2 with one EV could get a res done in a satisfactory time frame.
As to the .5 Bit, that's a RATIO. I could say 1 working on comm to every 2 working on res. This is how it works. Let's say you construct 10 buildings. Comms are 2x the BP of residentials. Figure that you have 6 crews, and you are constructing 8 res and 2 comms. 2 crews work on comms, 4 on res. When the 4 on res are done with their first batch of res, the one working on the commercials are half done. With the 4 on the res finish their second batch, the ones working on comms are done. That's an example of a perfect, no BPloss situation.
FIgure the timeframe you want to construct in a building in is probably around 1 Real Day, since you login one day, do your stuff, log out, log in next day, etc.
Now let's say you are building 50 CF, about normal for a level 2 empire in my experience. That's 150 bp per res. So the target BP for a crew is 15 or more BP. The optimum solution is a level 3 crew with an EV (a level 4 would be overkill, while cheaper to hire, more expensive to maintain), which would set you back rougly 7 million. at a maintenance of 9000/nevday. (600/BP, cheaper than AR-F. Mind that without an EV it would be more expensive, which is why I advocate 30-40% drop.) Well, there you go.
About the EV cost. If you can afford to buy all that inf, you certainly couldve afforded some EVs. (not many though.) If there is one truism about nev its that you pay for quality.
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Shoe for the NSI
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Vapor
Lieutenant
Reged: 11/15/02
Posts: 699
Loc: Guam
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Re: DP BOYCOTT VOTED ON AND CONFIRMED IN CHAT VOTE HERE
#48892 - 02/02/03 02:07 AM (202.128.69.122)
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In reply to:
When were you ever building a 25 cf 4 level residential in one nevday?
This was more a statement of construction speed, rather than the amount of buildings currently under construction in my empire. As to why I am building 25 CF buildings instead of 50 CF buildings, I have not yet completed the research for 50 CF buildings. Almost there, but not quite done, yet.
On the EV note again. (:p) I bought the infantry because I could afford to get them in large quantities. $420,000 per platoon for AR-F at the time that I bought them. That comes to $840,000 for 5.6 BP/day. Slightly more affordable than paying $6,000,000 for 5 BP. I had just begun converting to EV's a few days before the announcement of the change. I was expecting to be able to take a month or two to convert my infantry to EV's, thereby minimizing the morale loss I would suffer. However, if they do go through with this foolish notion of using construction crews (as it appears they will), I won't have the luxury of an extended period of time wherein I will be able to minimize my losses.
I've said it before, and I'll say it again (though I doubt anyone is listening to me  ). Personally, I don't see why the current system needs to change. It works. It's worked for quite some time. It allows both lower level empires as well as the bigger empires to get done what they need to get done. And it provides something for every budget to use. Yes, it makes for some lag, and I can understand wanting to get rid of the lag. I have to ask, though, if it is really that much harder to simply change the way the update works now without throwing a bunch of new stuff (and the potential for more bugs) into the game?
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"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
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TheDeadlyShoe
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 06/22/02
Posts: 1621
Loc: Redmond, WA
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Re: DP BOYCOTT VOTED ON AND CONFIRMED IN CHAT VOTE HERE
#48893 - 02/02/03 02:12 AM (4.40.153.191)
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It probably is, heh, i fyou think about it. Have to count builders for every zone on nev, then calculate bp in every zone, then split amongst buildings..blahblah..... And hey, can you do your replies all in one post? it was damn annoying to reply to all that. 
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Shoe for the NSI
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Vapor
Lieutenant
Reged: 11/15/02
Posts: 699
Loc: Guam
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Re: DP BOYCOTT VOTED ON AND CONFIRMED IN CHAT VOTE HERE
#48894 - 02/02/03 02:25 AM (202.128.69.122)
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I probably could put all my replies in one post, but I can't guarantee it would have been coherent.
The new system, however, is still going to have to "count builders in every zone on nev, then calculate bp in every zone." The only difference would be how the BP get's divided amongst the buildings being constructed. That might even cause a little more lag since the server won't be able to just take a number (BP) and divide it by another number (buildings under construction), then apply the result to the current amount of construction already completed on the buildings.
Instead, the server will have to identify all construction crews in the zone, identify what level the crew is, identify how many (if any) EV's are working with that crew, tap into it's database to calculate how many BP each crew provides, then add the BP total for each crew to one of the buildings under construction. I wonder how many zones on Neveron have buildings currently under construction. Must be a helluva lot of them.
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"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
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TheDeadlyShoe
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 06/22/02
Posts: 1621
Loc: Redmond, WA
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Re: DP BOYCOTT VOTED ON AND CONFIRMED IN CHAT VOTE HERE
#48895 - 02/02/03 02:27 AM (4.40.153.191)
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Before it had to check how many soldiers were left in every unit. Actually, I presume the way it works now is that when a crew is assigned to a building it calculates a completion time, once, based on its BP, and then counts that down. If the builders change in some way it will recalculate. now that WOULD be a lot less laggy.
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Shoe for the NSI
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Vapor
Lieutenant
Reged: 11/15/02
Posts: 699
Loc: Guam
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Re: DP BOYCOTT VOTED ON AND CONFIRMED IN CHAT VOTE HERE
#48896 - 02/02/03 02:47 AM (202.128.69.122)
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It would still have to check every zone in order to make sure that no changes had been made to the construction crews. If instead, each buildable zone had a variable that contained the current number of builders in the zone (military and civilian), and this variable was updated each time that number changed (new platoon in the zone, new civilian builders from recently completed residential building, etc.), all the server would have to do is retrieve that variable for the zone, calculate BP, and divide it amongst the buildings under construction. Maybe even include a yes/no toggle for the zone so that if the number of builders in the zone hasn't changed since the last daychange, the server doesn't even check the number of builders. It just uses the previous BP amount, and divides it amongs the buildings under construction.
I'm not saying any of these suggestions will be taken seriously, since Randy & Co. seem set on using construction crews. I'm just trying to figure out if there was another option to reduce lag without taking such a drastic step.
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"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
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Moraelin
Sergeant
Reged: 08/05/02
Posts: 304
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Re: DP BOYCOTT VOTED ON AND CONFIRMED IN CHAT VOTE HERE
#48899 - 02/02/03 03:13 AM (217.225.97.197)
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So if you think about it from a programmer point of view, the new system is actually _worse_.
If I was to optimize the old system, my instinctive first try would be to store one number per _zone_ with how many military BP's are in it. (Inf and EV's combined.) That doesn't change from one day to another. The only moments when it changes is when units are moved in and out of the area, so those are the only moments when you need to recalculate.
The fly in the ointment there are inf or EV units in transit to an area. (Including those returning from arenas.) Those are the _only_ zones where you have to recalculate, and at a wild guess there aren't that many. Even empires which are heavily active in the inf arenas, have maybe _one_ zone with inf in transit in any given nev-day. So I'd add a "transit" flag to each area (e.g., a single character: "y" or "n"). At day change or when the user goes to the buidings tab for a zone, the zones which have that flag will have their BP recalculated, and the flag is reset. The others, you don't even need to loop through them and check the flag, they can be excluded completely via a simple check in the SQL select's "where" clause.
If that's not done already, another thing to notice is that you only need to process anything at all in zones where something is being built. So let's also store the number of buildings under construction in a zone's record. This will only need to be updated when a new building is started, and when a building is finished. Zones where that number is zero, can again be skipped completely. But again, this is such an obvious thing, that I'd seriously suspect it's like that already.
So there you go. A simple and straightforward optimization which should fix about 90% of the construction-related lag, without needing such convoluted and unwieldy crew management, without crashing the inf weapons market, and without forcing people to restructure their whole workforce.
Now let's think about the new system. Even if you store a number per building, it's one per _building_ instead of one per _zone_. The only thing you "save" is the insignifficant cost of dividing total BP by the number of buildings, but that's several orders of magnitude cheaper than the extra database accesses, so it doesn't even start to matter.
(Though a better solution would be to go the other way around, get at the buildings from the crews table, instead of the other way around, in which case the number is already stored in the crew data. But given the relatively stupid "only one crew per building" restriction, I wouldn't be surprised if Randy's actual plan was to link it the other way around. But, since we'll never see the code, it's just a wild guess and may well be wrong.)
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Moraelin - The proud member of the Idiots' Guild
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Moraelin
Sergeant
Reged: 08/05/02
Posts: 304
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Re: DP BOYCOTT VOTED ON AND CONFIRMED IN CHAT VOTE HERE
#48902 - 02/02/03 03:18 AM (217.225.97.197)
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Yeah, I too would be very interested where and how is he planning to get half a crew.
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Moraelin - The proud member of the Idiots' Guild
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Vapor
Lieutenant
Reged: 11/15/02
Posts: 699
Loc: Guam
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Re: DP BOYCOTT VOTED ON AND CONFIRMED IN CHAT VOTE HERE
#48905 - 02/02/03 03:29 AM (202.128.69.122)
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He explained what he meant here.
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"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
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anderclayton
Captain
Reged: 08/05/02
Posts: 894
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Re: DP BOYCOTT VOTED ON AND CONFIRMED IN CHAT VOTE HERE
#48913 - 02/02/03 03:42 AM (208.186.188.149)
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The problem with calculating everything with EV's is that there is a limited EV market. With their new usefulness, in concept more people are going to want the things which in concept would drive the prices up. Regardless of all of that, at the current EV prices, it would be eight million, not seven million for a level three building crew (2 mill for the crew, 6 for the ev). It is, however, very doubtful that the EV prices are even going to be staying stable in the future.
Ander
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anderclayton
Captain
Reged: 08/05/02
Posts: 894
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Re: DP BOYCOTT VOTED ON AND CONFIRMED IN CHAT VOTE HERE
#48914 - 02/02/03 03:43 AM (208.186.188.149)
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Which is what happens when you don't thread your comments. Yup replying to people in each portion of the thread makes more comments to look through but it also helps a person follow threads.
Ander
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Vapor
Lieutenant
Reged: 11/15/02
Posts: 699
Loc: Guam
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Re: DP BOYCOTT VOTED ON AND CONFIRMED IN CHAT VOTE HERE
#48915 - 02/02/03 03:47 AM (202.128.69.122)
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I prefer to look at forums in threaded mode because it's easier for me to keep track of where each thread of the post is going, and I can reply to different threads easily. Some people prefer it flat. If I have the option, I will always go with it threaded, and if it makes it harder for some people to reply to me, I'm sorry, but you'll have to make do. 
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"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
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Moraelin
Sergeant
Reged: 08/05/02
Posts: 304
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Re: DP BOYCOTT VOTED ON AND CONFIRMED IN CHAT VOTE HERE
#48921 - 02/02/03 03:56 AM (217.225.97.197)
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That's still more of a pain in the butt than the current system, though. What if I want to build a factory? How about a research center? Do I start doing perverse and unnatural tricks to simulate stuff like 0.33 of a crew or 0.20 of a crew?
And there are times when even that won't help, because I want a multiple, not a fraction.
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Moraelin - The proud member of the Idiots' Guild
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anderclayton
Captain
Reged: 08/05/02
Posts: 894
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Re: DP BOYCOTT VOTED ON AND CONFIRMED IN CHAT VOTE HERE
#48926 - 02/02/03 04:06 AM (208.186.188.143)
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Multiples are easy (wait at multiple the number of nevdays). It is the fractions that are the pain in the butt.
Ander
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TheDeadlyShoe
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 06/22/02
Posts: 1621
Loc: Redmond, WA
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Re: DP BOYCOTT VOTED ON AND CONFIRMED IN CHAT VOTE HERE
#48940 - 02/02/03 05:18 AM (4.40.153.191)
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In reply to:
It would still have to check every zone in order to make sure that no changes had been made to the construction crews. If instead, each buildable zone had a variable that contained the current number of builders in the zone (military and civilian), and this variable was updated each time that number changed (new platoon in the zone, new civilian builders from recently completed residential building, etc.), all the server would have to do is retrieve that variable for the zone, calculate BP, and divide it amongst the buildings under construction. Maybe even include a yes/no toggle for the zone so that if the number of builders in the zone hasn't changed since the last daychange, the server doesn't even check the number of builders. It just uses the previous BP amount, and divides it amongs the buildings under construction.
I'm not saying any of these suggestions will be taken seriously, since Randy & Co. seem set on using construction crews. I'm just trying to figure out if there was another option to reduce lag without taking such a drastic step.
Item the first: Civvie builders changes all the time. It still has to do calculation for every zone, in any case. With completion times it does NO calculation. It just waits till it gets done. Note that randy did say that CF would NOT be calculated on a running basis, except for when needed if the zone is attacked. The current system involves calculating CF, dividing BP amongst buildings, etc. what you mentioned. That IS what creates the lag. The goal is to do a system that DOESNT do that.
To clarify: A crew is assigned to a building. Once assigned a completion time is calculated. Nev then simply ticks that completion time down to zero. VERY simple. One calculation. You can calculate % done if needed later. (ie, zone attacked, crew changed.) The only need to recalculate is if it is interrupted for some reason. (Crew moved, EV added to crew, Landwar attack.)
*edit*
If fractions are hard, just say it as a 1 to 2 ratio. Or a 1 to 3 ratio. or a 1 to 5 ratio. Okie doke?
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Shoe for the NSI
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Vapor
Lieutenant
Reged: 11/15/02
Posts: 699
Loc: Guam
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Re: DP BOYCOTT VOTED ON AND CONFIRMED IN CHAT VOTE HERE
#48942 - 02/02/03 05:41 AM (202.128.69.122)
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I understand that they are trying to reduce lag with this change. I'm pretty sure, though, that it could be possible to reduce the lag without such a drastic change. Yes, lag will be reduced, but I am also sure that we will be hit with a whole new set of bugs.
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"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
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Fiache
Corporal
Reged: 12/03/02
Posts: 130
Loc: Hawaii
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Re: DP BOYCOTT VOTED ON AND CONFIRMED IN CHAT VOTE HERE
#48958 - 02/02/03 10:33 AM (158.252.199.143)
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Cost actually isn't the issue that we should be talking about. More importantly is 1Con Crew/building. Now that more then anything else is going to cause us grief.
In the system at present if I want to double contruction speed I double the infantry in the zone. Costs about 300,000 at present market prices per Platoon. If I have 10 Platoons working then it will cost me 3M to speed up production, plus what 1500/platoon in upkeep or an additional 15K.
Under the proposed system I have to purchase a higher level construction crew. And the jumps are not consistant. The BP jump between 2,3 and 3,4 is 2.5X, while the jump between 1,2 and 4,5 is 4X. But the cost jumps consistantly by 5X up to level 5, and then gets screwy. And maintenance is screwy from word go. So even if I can change a crew during construction, there is no consistant cost, or maintenance, nor will just buying the next level con crew nessacely going to double my construction in a zone.
IMHO, construction with crews should total all BP in a zone, the requirements of 1BP per building (more for special ones) should still exist. And then the total BP is divided by the number of buildings under construction, round down. Compute a finish date and be done. If the player changes the zone properties, (adds buildings to construct, more crews), then client side java should recompute all the end dates for all the buildings. What the hell did they create client side code for anyway? That would cause lag on the users machines but not effect the server greatly. All the info that the equations need is already being displayed on the land page. it shouldn't take much to export to the viewer's machine and make it do the work.
But then I'm not a programmer, just a database admin. so I might be missing something... but I don't think so.
F.
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Moraelin
Sergeant
Reged: 08/05/02
Posts: 304
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Re: DP BOYCOTT VOTED ON AND CONFIRMED IN CHAT VOTE HERE
#48968 - 02/02/03 11:46 AM (217.225.97.197)
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If you can wait the multiple needed to build a TC with a 45 BP crew, you have my respect
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Moraelin - The proud member of the Idiots' Guild
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Moraelin
Sergeant
Reged: 08/05/02
Posts: 304
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Re: DP BOYCOTT VOTED ON AND CONFIRMED IN CHAT VOTE HERE
#48971 - 02/02/03 11:49 AM (217.225.97.197)
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What you're missing is that you shouldn't trust client side code. The effort to edit the javascript on a page or even manually submit a whole bogus form to the server is less than minimal, and the oportunities to cheat are endless.
Now I do think that this whole crew chaos wasn't really needed to fix the lag, but trusting client-side code with that is not the solution.
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Moraelin - The proud member of the Idiots' Guild
Edited by Moraelin (02/02/03 11:51 AM)
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Moraelin
Sergeant
Reged: 08/05/02
Posts: 304
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Re: DP BOYCOTT VOTED ON AND CONFIRMED IN CHAT VOTE HERE
#48979 - 02/02/03 12:15 PM (217.225.97.197)
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Well, here's a simple idea, then: _if_ civilian builders are the real cause of lag, how about just making civilians no longer build? You know, _if_ that's the whole problem, how about just addressing the problem and leaving the rest of the system alone?
But to be honest, I don't think the civilian builders really were the problem to start with. Or at least, not one that the change will address.
1) You see, the system will _still_ have to calculate the empire's total population and divide it among commercials, factories and research centers. There's other stuff, like your research multiplier, which depend on that, so it won't be eliminated. And at the end of subtracting that stuff, you're left with a number: the total number of unemployed people in the empire. And
2) it still has to go through the list of zones with buildings under construction. If nothing else, to update that population.
So now let's put 1 and 2 together, and try to get something reasonably close to 3. So you have the total number of unemployed people anyway, and you have to go through the list of cities anyway. Well, blimey, that means that the _only_ overhead to add the civvie builders is a multiplication, a division and an addition per city. That's all. All three of those are operations which take extremely few CPU cycles.
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Moraelin - The proud member of the Idiots' Guild
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Cool_Breeze
Recruit
Reged: 01/16/03
Posts: 38
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Re: DP BOYCOTT VOTED ON AND CONFIRMED IN CHAT VOTE HERE
#48980 - 02/02/03 12:23 PM (66.222.116.94)
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I'm glad someone is using there heads (plural is the correct term) here. There are still many bugs in neveron that the admins have not corrected, but they know about them. I've discovered a couple of them by accident. But I use them to my advantage all the time. So now we're on the verge of some more new additions to the game. And yes, the bugs will come. And how long will it take them to fix these bugs, since they have never bothered to fix the other bugs.
The main bug I exploit can be so easily fixed. They could have the code written and started in the same day.
I've also noticed that neveron is going down fast in the topwebgames.com poll. Since the day this change was announced neveorn has dropped in rank by about 5. I may be wrong. I think that speaks a little more than this silly boycott.
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Kit_fox
Colonel
Reged: 09/16/02
Posts: 3054
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Re: DP BOYCOTT VOTED ON AND CONFIRMED IN CHAT VOTE HERE
#48993 - 02/02/03 02:57 PM (129.138.32.68)
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Um... you know that knowingly exploiting a bug can get your empire deleted or a VERY large fine? And you realize that you just admited on a forum that you knowingly exploit bugs?
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The RNG mugged me in a dark street, killed my dog, and cancled Christmas.
When the winds of change blow hard enough the most trivial of things can become deadly projectials.
Knowledge is power. Power corrupts. Study hard. Be evil.
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anderclayton
Captain
Reged: 08/05/02
Posts: 894
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Re: DP BOYCOTT VOTED ON AND CONFIRMED IN CHAT VOTE HERE
#49003 - 02/02/03 04:23 PM (208.186.188.131)
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The problem is that some bugs aren't really bugs exactly. They are sloppy code that the admin knows about but isn't going to be fixing (ever).
Ander
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anderclayton
Captain
Reged: 08/05/02
Posts: 894
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Re: DP BOYCOTT VOTED ON AND CONFIRMED IN CHAT VOTE HERE
#49005 - 02/02/03 04:42 PM (208.186.188.131)
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I actually have a few questions about this system and kinda have suspicions about the answers...
1. Can we change construction crews in midstream? (I suspect not and that Randy is envisioning changing constructoin to what training was changed into)
2. How is the transfer of builders to construction crews going to work? (covered in a different thread but definitely relevant--not answered either)
3. Are we going to be able to queu buildings? (I suspect not)
4. Are EV's permanently assigned to a specific construction crew?
Ander
Edited by anderclayton (02/02/03 04:56 PM)
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Stalker17
General
Reged: 06/24/02
Posts: 2581
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Re: DP BOYCOTT VOTED ON AND CONFIRMED IN CHAT VOTE HERE
#49007 - 02/02/03 04:54 PM (68.159.0.183)
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we probably will be able to queqe buildings, think about it.
I'm making 4 residentials, and have 2 crews. since 1 crew per building 2 get crwes and the other 2 don't build unti lthe first two finish. Then the 2 now-idle crews move on to the next two buildings. simple
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"Insanity is just another word for true creativity"
da SEXY Stalker17, out
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