Newtype
11/04/08 06:14 PM
207.160.205.13
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The capital & subcapital weapon aimer is an arrangement of six lights that shine from a spacecraft in orbit to ground hexes. Rules the aimer can be attached to any capital or subcapital weapon. The gunner of that weapon chooses the target hex. Each of the aimer's six lights is aimed at an adjacent hex. During the following turn if those six lights are aimed at those six adjacent hexes and that weapon attacks, its shot automatically lands in the target hex (no to-hit roll is required). A capital/subcapital weapon aimer masses 150 tons and costs 750,000 C-Bills.
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Lafeel
11/04/08 06:25 PM
157.157.73.13
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And it's stuff like this that makes me wonder if anyone wants to play against you any more..
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Newtype
11/04/08 06:36 PM
207.160.205.13
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Why's that? Jealous you didn't think of this idea sooner?
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Lafeel
11/04/08 06:43 PM
157.157.73.13
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Quote:
Why's that? Jealous you didn't think of this idea sooner?
More like amused at your repeated displays of how much you understand the universe in general.
Or rather how little.
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Prince_of_Darkness
11/05/08 01:20 PM
205.202.120.139
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Quote:
The capital & subcapital weapon aimer is an arrangement of six lights that shine from a spacecraft in orbit to ground hexes. Rules the aimer can be attached to any capital or subcapital weapon. The gunner of that weapon chooses the target hex. Each of the aimer's six lights is aimed at an adjacent hex. During the following turn if those six lights are aimed at those six adjacent hexes and that weapon attacks, its shot automatically lands in the target hex (no to-hit roll is required). A capital/subcapital weapon aimer masses 150 tons and costs 750,000 C-Bills.
Two words:
EPIC FAIL
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Zandel_Corrin
11/05/08 06:02 PM
123.2.140.247
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Point of interest..... Capital Weapons are NOT used in ANY normal and most abnormal battletech games..... even getting a capital ship to mount that on is next to impossible!
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Prince_of_Darkness
11/05/08 07:37 PM
205.202.120.139
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Quote:
Point of interest..... Capital Weapons are NOT used in ANY normal and most abnormal battletech games..... even getting a capital ship to mount that on is next to impossible!
You mean in levels of power, correct?
Getting a light that is not of the laser variety to shine onto a surface from space takes something like oh say...a sun.
(Just a thought)
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Zandel_Corrin
11/05/08 09:50 PM
123.2.140.247
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True but not what i ment.... i was refering to the rarity of jumpships of any form not to mention actual combat vessals.
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Prince_of_Darkness
11/06/08 03:07 PM
205.202.120.139
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Quote:
True but not what i ment.... i was refering to the rarity of jumpships of any form not to mention actual combat vessals.
More than you think actually.
There are at least several tens of thousands of jumpships plying the interstellar trade routes ferrying material around alone, and each house has at least a few hundred warships.
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Zandel_Corrin
11/06/08 06:07 PM
123.2.140.247
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As of what date tho? Because as of PRE clan war 3050ish there were no warships to speak of....
or if there were they were very few and never used.
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Prince_of_Darkness
11/07/08 12:01 PM
205.202.120.139
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By at least 3067 each house had a pretty heavy naval millitary, including jumpships, Q-ships (capital weapon carrying dropships) and actual warships. For instance, there have been over 100 Fox corvette's produced since 3052 in the Federated Suns/Lyran Alliance.
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Lafeel
11/07/08 12:13 PM
157.157.106.160
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Quote:
By at least 3067 each house had a pretty heavy naval millitary, including jumpships, Q-ships (capital weapon carrying dropships) and actual warships. For instance, there have been over 100 Fox corvette's produced since 3052 in the Federated Suns/Lyran Alliance.
No offense, mate, but that's a gross exxageration.
From the numbers involved, I'd guess the total number constructed, in both states, would be closer to 20, which is still damn expensive, seeing as the Fox comes in at a staggering 16bil, each.
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Newtype
11/15/08 12:37 PM
207.160.205.13
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Note: the aimer mentioned above cannot shoot through clouds or smoke or other concealment cover.
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Lafeel
11/15/08 02:44 PM
157.157.106.160
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Quote:
Note: the aimer mentioned above cannot shoot through clouds or smoke or other concealment cover.
Ok, here's a really easy experiment for you to do. Get a flashlight (or torch, as the yanks call it) and a volunteer, and go out on a bright day.
Go find some nice open space, turn on the light, point it at him, and have him walk backwards till he can no longer see the beam.
If he can somehow magically see it for the one hundred thousand kilometers needed for this to work, than your idea works.
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Newtype
11/15/08 04:45 PM
207.160.205.13
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Capital weapons to my knowledge shoot no farther than 900 km (fifty 18 km hexes). 25 tons per light (six lights per aimer) should reach a range of 900 km. Some hand held flashlights can reach 3 km. Note: each aimer light hex set can be set to a color for warning purposes.
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Lafeel
11/15/08 07:32 PM
157.157.106.160
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Quote:
Capital weapons to my knowledge shoot no farther than 900 km (fifty 18 km hexes). 25 tons per light (six lights per aimer) should reach a range of 900 km. Some hand held flashlights can reach 3 km. Note: each aimer light hex set can be set to a color for warning purposes.
Not a chance, you'd have to be a lot further than that as you don't want to be anywhere near the atmosphere. And you completely ignored the point that the light would blend in with the sunlight, therefore making this stuff completely useless.
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Prince_of_Darkness
11/16/08 02:54 AM
205.202.120.139
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(sigh) Another Troll destroyed by the use of simple physics...when will the murder end, Lafeel?
(Ha ha!)
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Newtype
11/16/08 01:16 PM
75.52.182.110
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Why wouldn't a 25 ton light reach 900 km if a 2.5 kg flashlight can shine for 3km? I said that each light can be colored. So each light wouldn't necessarily blend in with sunlight.
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Lafeel
11/16/08 01:33 PM
157.157.106.160
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Quote:
Why wouldn't a 25 ton light reach 900 km if a 2.5 kg flashlight can shine for 3km? I said that each light can be colored. So each light wouldn't necessarily blend in with sunlight.
Because there is a huge difference between 900km and 3, and a 2.5kg flashlight can't even shine for half that distance in daytime.
As for your idea of using different colours for the lights, that wouldn't matter a damn either, because the sun pretty much covers the entire spectrum.
Do us all, and yourself in particular, a favour and drop this completely useless idea.
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Newtype
11/16/08 01:37 PM
75.52.182.110
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So how does a traffic light illuminate when the sun shines on it?
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Lafeel
11/16/08 01:41 PM
157.157.106.160
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Quote:
So how does a traffic light illuminate when the sun shines on it?
Grasping at straws are we? A traffic light is very different to a flashlight, mostly because of the sheer amount of power involved (and the amount of power needed for this stuff is so much you might as well use a capital laser)
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Newtype
11/16/08 01:46 PM
75.52.182.110
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And a 25 ton light can shine for 900 km in space because it's using lots of Watts. And a 1 ton TAG beam can shine for 270 meters at altitude 0.
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Lafeel
11/16/08 01:56 PM
157.157.106.160
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Quote:
And a 25 ton light can shine for 900 km because it's using lots of Watts.
No, I seriously doubt that.
But irregardless of how practical (or even feasable) this stuff is, that isn't my biggest gripe, what is is those simple words "hits automatically" (not something you want to hear in a game, ever). I don't know what the *expletive deleted* you've been smoking, but I am taking that shit away from you before it does more damage.
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Newtype
11/16/08 01:58 PM
75.52.182.110
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I've edited my message by indicating the range of TAG beams. Scroll up and read that message.
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Lafeel
11/16/08 02:01 PM
157.157.106.160
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Quote:
I've edited my message by indicating the range of TAG beams. Scroll up and read that message.
Doesn't matter. The tag beam is a laser (and invisible) while what your lights can do in space doesn't apply to this conversation due to the fact we are talking about orbital bombardement.
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Zandel_Corrin
11/16/08 06:00 PM
123.2.140.247
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You know.... i don't think he gets that the trouble with his idea is that he's using lights and not lasers.... otherwise the idea is kinda sound.... except the fact the all capital weapons have this type of guidence system built in and are still inaccurate.....
Consider the range your talking about here.... even a minor movement (1degree or even less) will send you hundreds of clicks off course....
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Lafeel
11/16/08 06:07 PM
157.157.106.160
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Quote:
You know.... i don't think he gets that the trouble with his idea is that he's using lights and not lasers.... otherwise the idea is kinda sound.... except the fact the all capital weapons have this type of guidence system built in and are still inaccurate.....
Consider the range your talking about here.... even a minor movement (1degree or even less) will send you hundreds of clicks off course....
Indeed. Especially if you are using autocannon or gauss slugs (lasers have their own problems, but that's outside the scope of this conversation, and missiles, being self guided, wouldn't need this sort of aiming assistance)
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Newtype
11/19/08 06:32 PM
207.160.205.13
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Quote:
Doesn't matter. The tag beam is a laser (and invisible) while what your lights can do in space doesn't apply to this conversation due to the fact we are talking about orbital bombardement.
It does matter because these aiming lights are basically TAG like laser beams - the aiming lights are big beams of light. 25 tons * 270 meters equals 6,750 meters. An 18 km space hex is approximately two BattleTech hexes of range. 50 capital hexes multiplied by two multiplied by 30 equals 3,000 meters. So each 25 ton aiming light is about twice as efficient as a TAG beam of comparable range.
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Zandel_Corrin
11/19/08 09:56 PM
123.2.140.247
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does it matter to you that your math makes no sense.....
Like how does a weight multiplies by a distance get anything?
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Newtype
11/22/08 11:48 AM
207.160.205.13
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Zandel, how does my math not make any sense? Put up or shut up. Weight multiplied by distance indicates how much power (Watts) are used to determine how effective the light beam can be. The more tonnage the beam, the farther it can shine and/or the larger that beam can be. Understand?
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MacLeod
11/22/08 03:22 PM
98.234.140.111
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Except the effectiveness of a beam of light is only barely related to the consumption of energy. A traditional 100w incandescent bulb is usually a candle compared to a 100w halogen bulb - you'll probably wind up with 1700 lumen of output versus anywhere between 2000 and 3000 lumen. Watts are irrelevant unless you're talking about an actual laser, and even then, laser rangefinding is pretty useless at extreme ranges in an atmosphere.
Also, just for the record... learn physics before you go throwing terms like this around. A 'twenty-five ton laser' doesn't have twenty-five tons worth of power. That's mounting equipment, focusing arrays, internal cooling systems, and manufacturer's warranty tags, as well as the actual diode for projecting a beam of energy. Maybe, if you tried arguing for the use of a 5MW beam as opposed to this craptastic formula of weight times the range of a TAG system, this wouldn't seem like a juvenile pile of fetid dingoes' kidneys.
Drugs don't kill people, pancreatic cancer kills people.
... and whoever heard of a drug that causes pancreatic cancer?
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Newtype
11/22/08 03:29 PM
207.160.205.13
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Actually MacLeod, my formula is accurate. As tonnage increases, range and/or brightness diameter increases.
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Lafeel
11/22/08 04:52 PM
85.220.115.86
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This "put up or shut up" sounds all too familiar. You wouldn't just happen to have a nation on Nationstates by the name of Hataria, now would you?
or rather used to have, as the mods deleted it.
Edited by Lafeel (11/22/08 04:52 PM)
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Prince_of_Darkness
11/22/08 09:06 PM
205.202.120.139
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Quote:
Zandel, how does my math not make any sense? Put up or shut up. Weight multiplied by distance indicates how much power (Watts) are used to determine how effective the light beam can be. The more tonnage the beam, the farther it can shine and/or the larger that beam can be. Understand?
Seriously. This "Put up or shut up" bulshit is so false that even Pamela Anderson's breasts are amazed. Your incredibly shallow understanding of physics (as a whole) and your inability to properly create a base for any argument you make and/or spawn means that any process of intelligent thought that is used to display your obvious foolishness is completely wasted. You know as well as any of us that your physics and ideas cannot work in classic battletech play, or even, anywhere that has remotely similar physics to our own universe's, so why do you even bother to try and argue against us?
Besides, you know I am just going to post a funny image and end the conversation with the knowledge of your idiocy, so why do you even try at something that is essentially futile?
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Newtype
11/26/08 12:16 PM
207.160.205.13
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Then why is it that as the tonnage of the Light TAG increased from 0.5 tons to 1 ton (standard TAG) the range increased from 270 meters to 450 meters?
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Kovax
11/26/08 12:42 PM
75.146.193.46
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Sorry, but the light does NOT reduce as a function of distance, it reduces (disperses) as a SQUARE of the distance. As a result, say for the sake of argument you make a light that is bright enough to illuminate a target at 100 meters in daylight; lighting the target at 200 meters takes 4X the power, NOT twice. At 400 m, you are at 16X the power, and at 800 m, that increases to 256X. By the time you reach a few hundred kilometers, the power necessary to light the target is in the absurd range, and only a nuclear explosion will work (like the sun).
The other half of the problem is that, unlike a laser, regular non-coherent light will disburse with distance, so you may light up a 1cm diameter circle at 1 meter, which will become a 1 meter circle at somewhere in the 100 meters range, and a small country at 100km. Atmospheric disbursion will increase that drasticaly.
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Newtype
11/26/08 05:35 PM
207.160.205.13
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Oh well I prefer to do orbital attacks at night anyways when I do my liberations of worlds.
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Zandel_Corrin
11/30/08 05:35 PM
123.2.140.247
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Quote:
Then why is it that as the tonnage of the Light TAG increased from 0.5 tons to 1 ton (standard TAG) the range increased from 270 meters to 450 meters?
TAG stands for Target Aquision Gear and uses a LASER not a light.
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Newtype
12/04/08 08:54 AM
75.52.182.110
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Lasers are focused lights. That's what my aiming lights are. They're just big TAG beams.
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Zandel_Corrin
12/04/08 05:45 PM
123.2.140.247
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Lasers are NOT just focused light.
Quote:
The term "laser" is an acronym for Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation
Focused light is done with mirrors and lenses LASERs are made with radiation.... VERY different procedure.
But if your saying that your aimer is just a targeting laser array then the only problem is the fact that all capital weapons already use such a system just to get the accuracy they have now.
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Prince_of_Darkness
12/04/08 08:07 PM
205.202.120.139
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Quote:
Lasers are focused lights. That's what my aiming lights are. They're just big TAG beams.
Then they are aiming LASERS, and thus you have changed your original design completely.
That, or you are finally bowing to our infinite wills.
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Newtype
12/05/08 01:37 PM
75.52.182.110
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No I haven't changed my design, I simply clarified it. And capital weapons from what I understand don't have targeting lasers.
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Prince_of_Darkness
12/05/08 04:12 PM
205.202.120.139
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Quote:
No I haven't changed my design, I simply clarified it. And capital weapons from what I understand don't have targeting lasers.
No, you have changed it. And don't fight about it, I am really not in the mood.
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Newtype
12/06/08 11:13 AM
207.160.205.13
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I never said the aiming lights weren't TAG beams. So I haven't changed my design.
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Zandel_Corrin
12/07/08 05:56 PM
123.2.140.247
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Then how do you explain capital weapons being able to hit anything?
They need some form of targeting system to be able to hit at all and in space targeting lasers are one of the only options.
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Newtype
12/12/08 02:29 PM
207.160.205.13
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From what I understand they use radar, and infrared sensors. Perhaps they use telescopic visual sighting systems too. TW should clarify targeting.
Edited by Newtype (12/12/08 02:43 PM)
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Newtype
12/21/08 12:56 PM
75.52.182.110
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The NL/55 capital laser masses 1100 tons. 1100 divided by 55 points of standard damage equals 20 tons per point of standard damage. It averages about 1 to 2 heat points per standard damage (85 heat points total for a NL/55). I'd say a 25 ton aiming TAG beam is overaccurate in terms of manufacturing.
Seems like only one 25 ton TAG beam would be necessary to aim a capital weapon at a target hex - the TAG beam could be aimed at the target hex and the capital weapon could be adjusted accordingly to be aimed at that target hex.
Edited by Newtype (12/22/08 12:12 PM)
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
12/24/08 10:35 AM
24.5.142.150
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Quote:
Quote:
Note: the aimer mentioned above cannot shoot through clouds or smoke or other concealment cover.
Ok, here's a really easy experiment for you to do. Get a flashlight (or torch, as the yanks call it) and a volunteer, and go out on a bright day.
Go find some nice open space, turn on the light, point it at him, and have him walk backwards till he can no longer see the beam.
If he can somehow magically see it for the one hundred thousand kilometers needed for this to work, than your idea works.
Where did you get the idea that we call flashlights torches? A torch is a piece of oiled wood that is burning on one end, at least that is what D&D said what a torch is. I have never seen one in real life.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Lafeel
12/24/08 12:58 PM
157.157.75.183
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Lol, my mistake then. Remember that any mistakes like that tend to be un intentional, as I'm not even a native english speaker.
Still you must admit that my idea would scupper his plans nicely, and now you think of it, lasers aren't exactly visible in daylight either.
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Fang
12/24/08 02:19 PM
12.54.128.7
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It seems to be mainly in the US that flashlights are referred to as flashlights. Many other folks in other countries refer to them as torches, as in electric torch. Which when you think about it, that is what a flashlight is. Plus, the electric torch is a lot less messy and smokey than it's D&D counter part.
One by one, the rabbits are stealing my sanity.....
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Newtype
12/26/08 11:27 AM
207.160.205.13
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Nevertheless these capital aiming lasers I designed are bright enough (remember semiguided missiles can home in on a TAG beam during daylight).
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Zandel_Corrin
01/04/09 05:57 PM
123.2.140.247
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Quote:
Nevertheless these capital aiming lasers I designed are bright enough (remember semiguided missiles can home in on a TAG beam during daylight).
That is of course due to the targeting feed data that the TAG gear is giving to your whole force within LOS.
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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