Karagin
08/07/10 10:04 AM
80.149.45.147
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Okay let's try this out for fun and see what we can come up with:
60 ton mech
Must have close to full armor
Any tech level can be used expect for BAR or Industrial Mech items.
Price: 8 million c-bill price range.
Everything else is up to you on what it carries weapon wise or electronic wise or what type of armor.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
08/07/10 11:33 PM
24.6.132.62
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Technology Base: - Inner Sphere - Level 2 Equipment Mass 60 Internal Structure: ES 3 Engine: 300 19 Walking MP: 5 Running MP: 8 Jumping MP: 0 Heat Sinks: double 13 Gyro: XL 1.5 Cockpit: 3 Armor Factor: 200 standard 12.5
Internal Armor Structure Value Head 3/9 Center Torso 20/30 Center Torso(rear) 9 R/L Torso 14/23 R/L Torso(rear) 5 R/L Arm 10/20 R/L Leg 14/28
Weapons and Ammo Location
4 Med Laser LT 1 ER LL LA 4 Med Laser RT 1 ER LL RA
Cost 6,550,080 C-Bills
Way under budget but it works. The weakness is that it has no jump jets. I am not that big of a fan of mechs over 55 tons with jump jets.
Clan mech
Technology Base: - Clan - Level 2 Equipment Mass 60 Internal Structure: ES 3 Engine: 300 EL 19 Walking MP: 5 Running MP: 8 Jumping MP: 5 Heat Sinks: double 11 Gyro: 3 Cockpit: 3 Armor Factor: 192 ferro fibrous 10
Internal Armor Structure Value Head 3/9 Center Torso 20/28 Center Torso(rear) 7 R/L Torso 14/21 R/L Torso(rear) 5 R/L Arm 10/20 R/L Leg 14/28
Weapons and Ammo Location
1 ER PPC LT 2 Med Pulse laser LT 3 Med Pulse laser RT
Cost 6,218,880 C-Bills
Again under budget. This time I added jump jets. It easily over heats if it keeps jumping and firing all five pulse lasers. A good tactic is to jump around at long range of the ER PPC and take pot shots.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Karagin
08/08/10 06:52 AM
80.149.45.147
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Both are good designs. Interesting choice weapons. Noting that you didn't use any ammo based weapons.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
08/08/10 01:26 PM
24.6.132.62
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I just find ballistic and missile weapons to heavy and limiting to wast my limited weight on.
Have your ammo using weapons. I will do what ever I can to make you either not to take that risky shot to save ammo or to make you use up your ammo and become defenseless. With out the concern of ammo I can stay at long range for the entire encounter and take the shots that needs a 12 to hit. The first time I played Battletech I had an all ammo designed mech. I lost the fight because I ran out of ammo before it was over.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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ix
08/08/10 10:46 PM
81.6.219.90
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A jumping, Pulse Laser and accident-prevention design in my own particular idiom. Being unable to use AES on 60+ ton mechs is silly.
Mass: 60 tons Tech Base: Mixed Chassis Config: Biped Rules Level: Experimental Tech Era: All Eras (non-canon) Tech Rating/Era Availability: F/X-X-F Production Year: 2750 Cost: 7,901,256 C-Bills Battle Value: 2,152
Construction Options: Fractional Accounting
Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel Power Plant: Unknown 180 Fusion Engine Walking Speed: 32.400000000000006 km/h Maximum Speed: 54.0 km/h Jump Jets: Unknown Jump Capacity: 150 meters (180 meters) Armor: Unknown Ferro-Lamellor Armament: 6 (CL) Medium Pulse Lasers 1 ECM Suite Manufacturer: Unknown Primary Factory: Unknown Communications System: Unknown Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================ Equipment Type Rating Mass -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 99 points 3.000 Internal Locations: 1 HD, 4 LA, 2 RA Engine: Fusion Engine 180 7.000 Walking MP: 3 Running MP: 5 Jumping MP: 5 (6) Improved Jump Jet Locations: 2 LT, 3 RT 10.00 Heat Sinks: (CL) Double Heat Sink 11(25) 1.000 Heat Sink Locations: 1 LT, 1 RA, 1 LL, 1 RL Gyro: Standard GyroStandard 2.000 Cockpit: (A) Torso-Mounted 6.000 (A) Life Support + (A) Life Support Actuators: L: SH+UA R: SH+UA Armor: Ferro-Lamellor AV - 201 14.351 Armor Locations: 6 LA, 6 RA
Internal Armor Structure Factor Head 3 9 Center Torso 20 30 Center Torso (rear) 10 L/R Torso 14 21 L/R Torso (rear) 7 L/R Arm 10 20 L/R Leg 14 28
================================================================================ Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2 (CL) Medium Pulse Lasers RT 8 2 4.000 2 (CL) Medium Pulse Lasers LT 8 2 4.000 Partial Wing LT/RT - 3/3 3.000 2 (CL) Medium Pulse Lasers HD 8 2 4.000 ECM Suite HD 0 1 1.000 Free Critical Slots: 0
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
08/09/10 01:37 AM
24.6.132.62
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Not bad at all for a short range scraper. I like the armor.
The problems I have with it is its lack of non jumping speed, its lack of long range weapons, and it is short on heat sinks for the weapons and jump jets that it carries.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Karagin
08/09/10 03:15 AM
80.149.45.147
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Not being able to alpha all the time, isn't a bad thing.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Zandel_Corrin
08/09/10 03:46 AM
123.2.140.247
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That should be 11 (22) in the heat section.... Looks good.
Nice design that makes you think about your moves and overheats like a biatch just like all good clanners... i think they have a thing for pain those guys...
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
08/09/10 08:16 AM
24.6.132.62
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Quote:
Not being able to alpha all the time, isn't a bad thing.
One should be able to use all of one range category weapons at once. I would have recommended dropping one pulse laser and put in two double heat sinks in its place. But with not having any crits left that is not an option. Having only four medium pulse lasers available with running or three MPL and jumping is very underpowered for a 60 tun mech.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
08/09/10 08:17 AM
24.6.132.62
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Another problem with this design is its extreme reliance on resupply of highly specialized armor. As long as you can stay at your base that should not be to much of a problem, at least for a while. How much of that specialized armor are you going to have laying around your base? On campaign you might just find yourself very quickly having no armor to replace damaged armor. Its quite unlikely your going to capture such armor from the enemy. For that reason I try to avoid using specialized armor in my designs.
When I do use specialized armor I have at least 10 tons of armor for each ton of armor the mech has on it stockpiled in my base just encase I might have resupply problems.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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ix
08/09/10 12:43 PM
81.6.219.90
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Quote:
I would have recommended dropping one pulse laser and put in two double heat sinks in its place.
Why? If you dropped a pulse laser you wouldn't need to add any heatsinking at all, it'd lose 2 heat per turn at max alpha. It doesn't run that hot. The heat is 11(25) with max heat 27, the Partial Wing loses 3 heat per turn in a standard atmosphere. The heat build-up with max jumping and firing every gun every turn is 2, easy to manage. If you doubt the firepower of 6 MPL try it in MegaMek. =) Designs like this are very powerful on anything short of a bowling green map as they can move in and out of cover and over obstacles so easily.
As far the armour you're right about supply, though the patchwork rules are awful, you should really be able to patch up areas with any salvaged armour as through the loss of FL it'd have space for any other kind of armour if the patchwork rules worked properly as a % of bulk rather than this stupid per location stuff.
Cheesemobile/SomeRulesAreBroken
Mass: 60 tons Tech Base: Mixed Chassis Config: Biped Rules Level: Experimental Tech Era: All Eras (non-canon) Tech Rating/Era Availability: X/X-X-X Production Year: 2750 Cost: 5,500,160 C-Bills Battle Value: 1,722
Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel Power Plant: Unknown 60 Fusion Engine Walking Speed: 10.8 km/h Maximum Speed: 21.6 km/h Jump Jets: None Jump Capacity: 0 meters / 300 meters Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous Armament: 2 (CL) ER Large Lasers 1 Watchdog CEWS Manufacturer: Unknown Primary Factory: Unknown Communications System: Unknown Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================ Equipment Type Rating Mass -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 99 points 3.00 Internal Locations: 3 LA, 4 RA Engine: Fusion Engine 60 1.50 Walking MP: 1 Running MP: 2 Jumping MP: 0 / 10 Jump Booster Heat Sinks: (CL) Double Heat Sink 12(24) 2.00 Heat Sink Locations: 5 LT, 5 RT Gyro: Extra-Light GyroXL 0.50 Cockpit: Small 2.00 Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H Armor: Ferro-Fibrous AV - 201 10.50 Armor Locations: 4 LA, 3 RA
Internal Armor Structure Factor Head 3 9 Center Torso 20 30 Center Torso (rear) 10 L/R Torso 14 21 L/R Torso (rear) 7 L/R Arm 10 20 L/R Leg 14 28
================================================================================ Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (T) (CL) ER Large Laser RT 12 1 4.00 (T) (CL) ER Large Laser LT 12 1 4.00 Watchdog CEWS HD 0 2 1.50 Mech Shoulder Turret LT - 1 0.50 Mech Shoulder Turret RT - 1 0.50 Jump Booster * - 4 30.00 Free Critical Slots: 2
* The Jump Booster occupies 2 slots in each leg.
Edited by ix (08/09/10 02:56 PM)
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Karagin
08/09/10 02:07 PM
80.149.45.147
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I wouldn't hold much "proof" of anything via MegaMek, what matter is the board game and the rules that go with that against another person.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ix
08/09/10 02:59 PM
81.6.219.90
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I only meant Megamek as an easily accessible way of testing, what material difference does it make assuming you agree a similar rule set?
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Jon
08/09/10 05:10 PM
24.21.3.118
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I've always liked the look of the Thug out of the 2750 book. I guess i'm into the older tech. I have created a 30T version that I use in Solaris 7 matches. My GM hates it as he can't beat it so far. So i went for a 60T version for your competition:
Inner Sphere - Level 3 Bipedal mech 60 tons
Movement: Walk: 5 Run: 8 Sprint: 10 Jump: 5
Some people may see jump jets as a hinderance, I've always looked at them as an insurance policy - when i want them and don't have them is when i usually get blown up =)
Weapons: 2 Light AC/5's 2 Rocket Launchers - 10 packs AMD system
I like the rocket launchers because they weigh less than the other 'One-Shot' systems, and they are basically fire and forget rockets. They have provided a nice surprise to the enemy in the last few mechs i have used them in, and they don't need case as they are all self contained systems.
I think it's 5 points away from max armor
Internal Structure: Head = 3 LT/RT = 14 CT = 20 LA/RA = 10 LL/RL = 14
Armor = IS Ferro Fibrous Head = 9 LT/RT = 21 Rear LT/RT = 6 CT = 29 Rear CT = 9 LA/RA = 20 LL/RL = 28
Weapons: AMS = Heat 1, Damage 'Special', Located in Head Light AC/5 = Heat 1, Damage 5, Ranges: S5/M10/L15/Ex20 = one in each arm at 2 crit spaces RLauncher = Heat 3, Damage 1/missile, Ranges: S5/M11/L18/Ex22 = one in LT & RT
AMS Ammo is stored in CT with CASE = 1 Ton or 12 shots - Not alot, but it does come in handy AC/5 ammo located in LT/RT with CASE = 1 ton each location so total of 20 shots per system
The thing i like about all these weapons is that there isn't a Minimum Range on any of them, so if i can sneak in behind my enemy they are hosed.
The only negative is that the RLaunchers have a +1 to their Base to Hit number
Max Heat is 9, and I kept it simple with the base 10 single heat sinks so i can fire everything and jump and still be ok on heat.
Battle Value = 1081 Cost is = $6,188,160
So it's under the $8 million mark. If i pulled the Jump Jets i could put in more ammo and possibly other components, but like I told my GM when I showed him this mech, "Since i started playing this game in the late '80s, JUmp Jets have saved my ass more that the extra ammo or weapons I could replace them with."
yes I'm that old, I learned how to play BT in 1989 =)
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Karagin
08/09/10 05:25 PM
80.149.45.147
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Nice mech, I can see your point about the jets and at the same time I can see the counter points about the ammo and armor.
I got started in the game with a copy of Battledroids and then a couple of the scenario packs. Really think the House Books sold me on the game. Man I miss those days.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/09/10 05:28 PM
80.149.45.147
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I am not a fan of Mega Mek, you are not playing another person, the dice are not rolled by you, but by a computer, there is no interaction, like watching the face of the other guy as your mechs move away from where he thought they were going to go and then realizing you out flanked him. The interaction of human dialog is gone since you can't talk face to face with the person...the list goes on, plus the game is to randomized in how it handles damage. No I will stick to playing this great game as it was meant to be played. On a table-top, with counters or miniatures against real people, rolling the dice my self.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ix
08/09/10 06:02 PM
81.6.219.90
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Well most of that is your preference and I'd respect that but it's about the experience of playing and is immaterial in assessing designs. What do you mean about the randomness of the damage? There's nothing wrong with computer generated random numbers for something as simple as Battletech unless the MegaTek coders have set out to cock it up (possible but unlikely). If you have evidence that it's wrong tell them as it'd be extremely easy to fix.
Edited by ix (08/09/10 10:11 PM)
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
08/09/10 06:44 PM
24.6.132.62
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Quote:
Quote:
I would have recommended dropping one pulse laser and put in two double heat sinks in its place.
Why? If you dropped a pulse laser you wouldn't need to add any heatsinking at all, it'd lose 2 heat per turn at max alpha. It doesn't run that hot. The heat is 11(25) with max heat 27, the Partial Wing loses 3 heat per turn in a standard atmosphere. The heat build-up with max jumping and firing every gun every turn is 2, easy to manage. If you doubt the firepower of 6 MPL try it in MegaMek. =) Designs like this are very powerful on anything short of a bowling green map as they can move in and out of cover and over obstacles so easily.
I don't know where your getting this 11(25) from. 11 Double heat sinks let you drop 22 heat not 25. I know nothing about Partial Wings so I cant say anything about them or the rules governing them. The rules that I am familiar when it comes to advanced jump jets they create 2 heat per hex jumped, that info could quite easily be out dated. Jumping 5 (Assuming 1 hear per hex) and firing 6 MPL create 29 heat. Having 11 double heat drops that to 7 heat. If your info about the wings is correct that would drop the heat to 4 not 2. When I said that if it was possible I would have swapped the MPL for two DHS I did not know anything about Partial Wings and that they drop 3 heat.
This is just a guess on my part but I would assume that the Partial Wings only drop extra heat when one is using them to fly. If one is walking or running around the wings do not help with heat control.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
08/09/10 07:01 PM
24.6.132.62
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Quote:
Weapons: AMS = Heat 1, Damage 'Special', Located in Head Light AC/5 = Heat 1, Damage 5, Ranges: S5/M10/L15/Ex20 = one in each arm at 2 crit spaces RLauncher = Heat 3, Damage 1/missile, Ranges: S5/M11/L18/Ex22 = one in LT & RT
Max Heat is 9, and I kept it simple with the base 10 single heat sinks so i can fire everything and jump and still be ok on heat.
I would count that as max ?8 heat with jumping since the RLs are one shot weapons they don't need to be counted.
When did the standard AMS start creating a heat point? I know that the Laser AMS creates a lot of heat if its still in the game.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
|
ix
08/09/10 09:07 PM
81.6.219.90
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Heat sunk: 11 Double heat sinks = 22 1 Partial Wing = 3 (Tactical Operations, p. 295 Atmosphere 'Normal')
Total heat sinking: 25
Heat generated: 6 Medium Pulse Laser = 24 5 Improved Jump jets (1 per 2 squares jumped, rounded up TechManual, p. 225 MaxTech p.81) = 3 Total heat max: 27
As I understand it partial wings always sink heat when a mech's in an atmosphere. The rules change and there are so many it's easy to lose track! =)
Edited by ix (08/09/10 09:11 PM)
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
08/09/10 10:04 PM
173.126.173.86
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I don't agree with the rules for the partial wings or improved Jump jets. There way over powering.
The wings should not act like free heat sinks when there is not a great deal of air passing over them.
The jump jets give you way to much for so little of a cost. I think the improved jump jets where fine when they cost two heat points for each hex jumped.
Well this is not the first time a player disagreed with the game designers nor will it be the last.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
|
ix
08/09/10 10:21 PM
81.6.219.90
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Ah well, that's a different issue. There are a lot of rules I'd change, Patchwork Armour being the first (the current rules are basically useless as they don't make any sense for trying to apply patchwork armour in a campaign setting to an existing mech, you want to put normal armour on the arm? I'm sorry, the Ferro-Fibrous armour that was until now covering the rest of your mech no longer fits and magically falls off). I think, from lots of tinkering with designs, that Improved jumpjets are fine; they take so much space and weight and you always have to closely compare the Improved JJ design with the better engine, more heatsinks and standard JJ design, the latter often turning out to be superior. They do gain something of an edge if you're using Fusion Engines as we have to in this contest, they're balanced around XL engines which is fair enough, they shouldn't be available when Fusion engines are the best tech. Partial Wing is too good because it gives you two resources 'at the going rate' or even slightly better but also gives you an additional boost.
For a 60 tons mech: -3 heat sinking via Double Heat sinks: 1.5 tons 3 crits +1 Jump movement (over Walk MP): 2 tons, 2 crits Total: 3.5 tons, 5 crits
Partial Wing -3 heat +1 Jump: 3 tons 6 crits
So they seem similar but Partial Wing also gives you the increased maximum jump benefit so outperforms both Improved Jumpjets and Double heatsinks.
For Medium mechs they're even better: 55 ton mech -3 heat DHS: 1.5 tons 3 crits +2 Jump movement (over Walk MP): 2 tons 4 crits Total: 3.5 tons 7 crits
Partial Wing: 3 tons 6 crits
I love them from a flavour point of view, from a game design point of view they're too strong.
Edited by ix (08/09/10 10:26 PM)
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KitK
08/10/10 06:53 PM
69.11.4.21
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8 mill C-bills becomes all about the engine (size and type) - anything lighter than a standard starts taking up well over 50% of the cost. So this is a bit slower than I would like. There are crits for endosteel or ferro fiberous but I was trying to keep below 8.6M $C. I'd also have preferred ER mediums, but again the cost.
It runs hot. It's suppose to.
Code:
Bastion 420
Mass: 60 tons Tech Base: Inner Sphere Chassis Config: Biped Rules Level: Tournament Legal Era: Clan Invasion Cost: 8,592,960 C-Bills Battle Value: 1,487
Power Plant: 240 Light Fusion Engine Walking Speed: 43.0 km/h Maximum Speed: 64.5 km/h Jump Jets: Yes Jump Capacity: 120 meters Armor: Standard Armor w/ CASE Armament: 2 PPCs 1 MML-7 2 Medium Lasers Manufacturer: CMCDesigns
================================================================================ Equipment Type Rating Mass -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Internal Structure: Standard 99 points 6.00 Engine: Light Fusion Engine 240 9.00 Walking MP: 4 Running MP: 6 Jumping MP: 4 Standard Jump Jet Locations: 2 CT, 1 LT, 1 RT 4.00 Heat Sinks: Double 10(20) 0.00 Heat Sink Locations: 1 LT Gyro: Standard Gyro 3.00 Cockpit: Standard 3.00 Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H Armor: Standard Armor AV - 192 12.00 CASE Locations: 1 RT 0.50
Internal Armor Structure Factor Head 3 9 Center Torso 20 27 Center Torso (rear) 10 L/R Torso 14 20 L/R Torso (rear) 8 L/R Arm 10 20 L/R Leg 14 25
================================================================================ Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2 Medium Lasers RA 6 2 2.00 PPC LA 10 3 7.00 MML-7 RT 4 4 4.50 PPC LT 10 3 7.00 @MML-7 (SRM) (14) RT - 1 1.00 @MML-7 (LRM) (17) RT - 1 1.00 Free Critical Slots: 21
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KitK
09/09/10 02:08 AM
69.11.5.13
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Well, it looks like SSW miscalculated the Bastion's cost, failing to include the cost of ammo. MegaMek puts it at 8,920,960 and I calculate it at 8,684,160. So still in the $8M.
Nice job on those coming in under budget. What I found challenging about this was to actually try to use the budget without massively overrunning it.
I made a rough estimate based on the average cost of 3025 era 60 ton mechs and guessed $8M to be about a 60% spending increase. If you apply that much of an increase to the range of Mechs (Assuming each hit $8M exactly) you get a range of spending increase from 46%-78%.
That strikes me as a pretty generous boost in military spending on one hand, and on the other hand it's not much compared to the new stuff to hit the battlefield after 3050 with all of those XL engines. Oh, and let's not forget the WOB skimming all that dough off the HPG's to fund their hightech army.
At any rate, I found this challenging and applied 60% to other weights (30, 50, 80). I'd say it wasn't a good idea to apply the same rate across weight classes. (not enough for 80, almost too generous at 30). So, are there actual numbers for what would be a reasonable increase for house armies? More than doubling the costs of mechs is fine if cost isn't and issue, but what if the Sphere's market simply couldn't bear it? I would think that many were near broke after the jihad if not before it.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
09/09/10 11:15 PM
173.116.238.37
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I have always found vehicles far better because of there cost.
http://www.sarna.net/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/150980/an/0/page/5#150980 http://www.sarna.net/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/150962/an/0/page/5#150962
Either one can take out a light mech for twenty present of the cost of the mech that it took out. I could outfit an entire regiment for the cost of one lance of assault mechs. At 33 to 1 odds the lance of mechs will be over ran. Yes, I would lose a lot of vehicles but I will more than make up for it in salvaging the mechs
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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KitK
09/11/10 01:59 AM
69.11.5.13
|
Yes, we know you like vehicles and can buy them in hordes if money were an issue.
But that is irrelavent. Dropping an XL engine in a tank is going to shoot its price up as well. So the question is the same for an army of tanks as it is for an army of mechs. What's a reasonable increase in military funding? For example if you were paying x-Million C-bills for military hardware item A, but you needed a replacement or upgrade to stay competitive, would you be willing to pay x-Million + 120% or only x-Million +40%. With that parameter set, then as a manufacturer you want to build something that taps that extra cash the army is willing to pay, wherein lies the challenge.
Soooo . . . take your favorite 3025 era, 60 ton tank and add 60% to its cost. See Karagin's original post for other (non cost) parameters and upgrade or design from scratch to meet that cost as closely as possible. And, post it here so we can see.
KK
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
09/14/10 12:52 PM
174.144.7.213
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Putting a XL engine into a vehicle is a wast and pointless because you have to add an extra 50% to any fusion power plant that is put into any vehicle. You also defeat the whole advantage in vehicles, there cheap cost.
Other than putting in fusion power plants into vehicles so you can take advantage of there built in ten heat sinks and use of lasers with out amplifiers you don't do much upgrading because again you defeat the cost savings. You also keep the vehicles as light as possible so there not bonged down with heavy and costly power plants or other equipment. One vehicle verses one mech when there both over 35 tons the mech will win every time. The real advantage of vehicles is the use of large numbers of light cheap vehicle swarming one or very few heaver mechs.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Zandel_Corrin
09/14/10 07:42 PM
123.2.140.247
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You don't have to go XL to get the same increase in effectiveness.
You also didn't answer the question about what YOU would do to upgrade 3025 vehicle designs for the military and what you think would be a good increase in spending to keep up with the market but still stay cheap-ish.
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
09/14/10 08:17 PM
173.151.181.176
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Quote:
You also didn't answer the question about what YOU would do to upgrade 3025 vehicle designs for the military and what you think would be a good increase in spending to keep up with the market but still stay cheap-ish.
There are lots of new weapons and other equipment that I don't even know about since the game books that I once had where maybe ten years out of date or more when they disappeared two years ago. People on this forum keep mentioning stuff that I say, "WTF is that!"
Its not so much of what ones budget is but what one gets out of the budget that they have. I could defeat a 50 million CBill battle mech with a force of vehicles that cost one quarter of that. Look at world history. A $2 molotov cocktail could destroy a 10 million dollar main battle tank by cooking off its ammo.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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KitK
09/15/10 01:32 PM
69.11.4.75
|
Well, I've never done a tank before, so this might not be a great tank.
Took a Manticore Heavy Tank 240 Engine (4/5) PPC LRM 10 @ 1 SRM 6 @ 1 ML 11 Tons St. Armor (176) 3 Heatsinks
Original is C-2,640,800 60% increase shoots for C-4,225,280
New Manticore Heavy Omni Tank (Prime) C-4,251,000 (25,720 over target)
300 Engine (5/8) 15 ton turret pod PPC (Turret) MML 9 (Turret) ..LRM @ 1 (Body) ..SRM @ 1 (Body) Artemis IV FCS (Turret) MG (Turret) ..MG @ .5 (Body) ML (Front) 8.5 Tons Heavy Ferr- Fibrous (168) 3 Heatsinks
KK
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