Retry
02/15/14 01:46 AM
67.239.109.174
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Overview:Ultimate electronic packages. Slow as hell yet stupidly hard to hit. And it's more durable than a stainless steel toaster.
The concept of infantry support vehicle dates as far back as WWII. Such an armored vehicle has just enough speed to keep up with most infantry, excellent armor, but often weak main guns.
These particular mechs are designed to support Crossroadian Shocktrooper battle armor regiments.
The pilot is safely protected by an armored torso-mounted cockpit in the center torso, surrounded by reinforced structure and hardened armor. A movement profile of 2/2 can let it keep up with foot infantry and some battle armor but little else.
These machines are usually deployed in groups of 3 to utilize their nova CEWs.
----Nephilidae Mk.I Infantry Support Mech
Mixed (Base Clan)
100 tons
BV: 3,665
Cost: 20,121,667 C-bills
Source: Crossroads
Movement: 2/2
Engine: 200
Double Heat Sinks: 15 [30]
Cockpit: Torso-Mounted Cockpit
Gyro: Compact Gyro
Internal: 160 (Reinforced)
Armor: 323/323 (Hardened)
Internal Armor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 31 47
Center Torso (rear) 15
Right Torso 21 32
Right Torso (rear) 10
Left Torso 21 32
Left Torso (rear) 10
Front Right Leg 21 42
Front Left Leg 21 42
Rear Right Leg 21 42
Rear Left Leg 21 42
Weapons Loc Heat
Large Pulse Laser HD 10
Large Pulse Laser HD 10
Equipment Loc
Void Signature System RLL
Angel ECM Suite RT
Bloodhound Active Probe RT
Nova CEWS CT
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Karagin
02/15/14 10:19 PM
70.118.139.48
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A 100 ton mech to support infantry? Yeah not seeing that a even a remotely possible idea for any of the houses to consider. This one ranks up with some of ATN's mechs and super tanks.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
02/15/14 10:34 PM
67.239.109.174
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It's a good thing it's supposed to be supporting Crossroadian shocktrooper BA elements and not great house infantry elements.
It's not a concept I pulled out of my ****, it's directly inspired by the British Infantry Tank concept. Unless you want to laugh at the Englishmen too.
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ghostrider
02/16/14 01:39 AM
24.30.128.72
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I don't know how much a lot of those systems weight, but it would seem this mech should have more stuff it could carry. Unless the 200 rated engine is an ice, though I don't see any amplifiers.
Never heard of reinforced internals.
The only problem I do have with the rules I know of is having 2 large pulse lasers mounted in the head.
I am assuming the void system in the rll is a typo, otherwise, it looks like this is a quad mech.
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Retry
02/16/14 01:58 AM
67.239.109.174
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200 rated SFE, that is.
The hardened armor and reinforced internals take up a whole lot of weight, but that combined with the VSS(and the quad chassis) makes the mech difficult to kill like no other.
Basically the reinforced internals give a slight bonus against crit hits and also are twice as durable as standard internals.
The head mounted LPLs are thanks to a torso mounted cockpit which frees up 4 crits in the head. The cLPLs take up 2 crits each, so it works perfectly.
The VSS crits are in all applicable slots. It just shows up as the RLL because... I don't know why.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
02/16/14 03:31 AM
172.56.32.74
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I just don't see the Clans using such a mech. I would think it would be seen as a cowards mech by Clan warriors.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Retry
02/16/14 04:31 AM
67.239.109.174
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Call me back when you begin reading the intro...
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
02/16/14 10:47 AM
208.54.5.238
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Your intro is irrelevant if it goes against cannon of everything the Clans believe in as a whole or as individual warriors.
Clan warriors believe in the offense, hiding behind something is seen as the act of a coward and is unclan behavior.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Karagin
02/16/14 11:26 AM
70.118.139.48
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Given that tanks supporting infantry was a poor tactical idea and failed when actually used in combat, then yes I will laugh at the English military thinking at the time just as the Germans did.
The Clans do not use mechs to support infantry. Thus the idea is akin to some of ATN's crazy mobile bunkers and 100 ton scout mechs, which yours falls into, the 100 ton scout mech.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
02/16/14 01:31 PM
67.239.109.174
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Yeah, not sure what history book you're getting this from, but the entire purpose of a tank is to support infantry. It's not some lone wolf tank or pillbox hunter.
"These particular mechs are designed to support Crossroadian Shocktrooper battle armor regiments."
I don't give a damn if the clans won't use it when the clans won't be using it.
Therefore the intro is the entire point and is no way irrelevant.
Even if the vehicle was a clan vehicle(it's not), it would have a decent chance of adoption to Hell's Horses who use combined arms tactics more often than most.
Edited by Retry (02/16/14 01:42 PM)
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Karagin
02/16/14 01:53 PM
70.118.139.48
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Tanks are NOT there to support infantry, they are used to break through enemy lines, and destroy enemy armor formations, they are NOT supportive of infantry, when in fact it is the other way around. Infantry support tanks, keeping the enemy infantry away from the armor. How about reading a book or a 100 on armored warfare and even if this thing is meant to work with BA, battlearmor IS STILL INFANTRY.
Tanks engage tanks, that was what ALL nations got out the failed Tanks support infantry thinking of the post WW1 military elite. WW2 showed in spades how that idea was wrong. Same with the idea of tank destroyers being the only thing to take on tanks. One reason many nations use a combined arms setup, that way all elements work together to break the enemy and defeat them so as to allow victory.
And yes it does matter what the Clans do, since you haven't given us anything that works as a point of departure for how the Clans differ in your take on the BT universe so until you do, the Clans would not use this, just like the Inner Sphere or Clans would not build ATN's crawling pillbox/bunker tanks.
And a 50 ton Clan mech could mount the weapons and electronics and get the job done and have more of them.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
02/16/14 02:09 PM
67.239.109.174
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What I ate for breakfast this morning is about as relevant as whether the clans would care for it when the clans don't use it.
Infantry today still can be operated without tanks. Tanks today cannot be operated without infantry, unless you want to take an RPG-7 to the kne... er, turret. Tanks cannot hold territory, only infantry can. You don't build your forces around your armor. Hence, tanks still today support infantry.
"These particular mechs are designed to support Crossroadian Shocktrooper battle armor regiments."
Quite frankly I am not in the mood to create a page long introduction on the alternate history faction Crossroads again.
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Karagin
02/16/14 02:14 PM
70.118.139.48
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Well if you don't give us the details as to what group is using this and why etc...then I guess we will only have the part that it is a Clan tech mech, thus would 99% of the time be found in the hands of Clan warriors. Thus making it a Clan mech.
Infantry and tanks work together, infantry is not going to engage tanks head on, they will snipe and hide, using the AT weapons they have but none of them will stand and face a battalion of tanks. Again did you miss the part about combined arms? Mechs are there to defeat the enemy mechs and tanks, infantry is there to keep the enemy infantry engaged and away from the mechs and tanks, thus the idea is infantry supports tanks and mechs, not the other other way around.
And given things like ECM, Reactive Armor (Blazer etc...) and a host of other real world systems that are set up to confuse and stop Infantry based AT weapons yeah the RPG-7 isn't going to always take out a tank unless used up close and personal. And smart military commanders don't let their forces be sucked into a battle that they can't use their advantages in their favor.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
02/16/14 02:16 PM
67.239.109.174
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I already had in some other thread, I think the Mirage Chopper one. Just assume it's not being used by the clans as I had already stated multiple times.
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ghostrider
02/16/14 03:18 PM
24.30.128.72
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crossroads is the fiction version of battle tech.
I do agree that in battle tech, the clans use battle armored infantry to support mechs, and would not make an infantry support mech this large. Something like the paranha mech would be used.
But as retry stated in the opening lines, this is not canon. one responce or even reading the information in the opening post is enough to say that.
Now Karagin has a point about the unit being larger then needed. If they would put up an example, then they have argued the same thing you did in another thread.
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Karagin
02/16/14 03:32 PM
70.118.139.48
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Only thing not there is the Nova System...
Code: BattleMech Technical Readout
Custom* Weapons
Type/Model: ATI Mech
Tech: Mixed Tech / 3132
Config: Quad BattleMech
Rules: Level 3, Standard design
Mass: 60 tons
Chassis: Reinforced (IS)
Power Plant: 120 XL Fusion (C)
Walking Speed: 21.6 km/h
Maximum Speed: 21.6 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type: Hardened
Armament:
1 Bloodhound Probe(IS)
1 Angel ECM Suite (C)
1 Void Sig System(1)*(IS)
2 Large Pulse Lasers (C)
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: ATI Mech
Mass: 60 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 107 pts Reinforced (IS) 0 12.00
Engine: 120 XL Fusion 10 2.00
Walking MP: 2
Running MP: 2
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 15 Double (C) [30] 22 5.00
(Heat Sink Loc: 1 LFL, 1 RFL, 3 LT, 3 RT, 1 CT, 1 LRL, 1 RRL)
Compact Gyro: 2 3.00
Torso-Mounted Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 6 4.00
Leg Act: Hip + UpLeg + LowLeg + Foot 16 .00
Armor Factor: 148 (IS) 0 18.50
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 20 19
Center Torso (Rear): 6
L/R Side Torso: 14 14/14
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 5/5
L/R Front Leg: 14 19/19
L/R Rear Leg: 14 19/19
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Bloodhound Probe (IS) RT 0 3 2.00
1 Angel ECM Suite (C) LT 0 2 1.50
1 Void Sig System(1)* (ISLT 4 1 .00
2 Large Pulse Lasers (C) HD 20 4 12.00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 24 66 60.00
Crits & Tons Left: 0 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 11,832,800 C-Bills
Battle Value 2: 1,404 (old BV = 1,263)
Cost per BV2: 8,427.92
Weapon Value: 2,386 / 2,386 (Ratio = 1.70 / 1.70)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 21; MRDmg = 18; LRDmg = 12
BattleForce2: MP: 2, Armor/Structure: 4/2
Damage PB/M/L: 3/2/2, Overheat: 0
Class: MH; Point Value: 14
Specials: ecm, prb
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
02/16/14 03:45 PM
70.118.139.48
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Code: BattleMech Technical Readout
Custom* Weapons
Type/Model: ATI 2
Tech: Mixed Tech / 3025
Config: Quad BattleMech
Rules: Level 3, Standard design
Mass: 50 tons
Chassis: Reinforced (C)
Power Plant: 100 XL Fusion (C)
Walking Speed: 21.6 km/h
Maximum Speed: 21.6 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type: Hardened
Armament:
1 Angel ECM Suite(C)
1 Bloodhound Probe (IS)
1 Nova CEWS*(C)
2 Large Pulse Lasers(C)
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: ATI 2
Mass: 50 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 91 pts Reinforced (C) 0 10.00
Engine: 100 XL Fusion 10 1.50
Walking MP: 2
Running MP: 2
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 14 Double (C) [28] 20 4.00
(Heat Sink Loc: 1 LFL, 1 RFL, 3 LT, 3 RT, 1 LRL, 1 RRL)
Compact Gyro: 2 1.50
Torso-Mounted Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 6 4.00
Leg Act: Hip + UpLeg + LowLeg + Foot 16 .00
Armor Factor: 96 (C) 0 12.00
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 16 11
Center Torso (Rear): 4
L/R Side Torso: 12 9/9
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 3/3
L/R Front Leg: 12 12/12
L/R Rear Leg: 12 12/12
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Angel ECM Suite (C) RT 0 2 1.50
1 Bloodhound Probe (IS) LT 0 3 2.00
1 Nova CEWS* (C) CT 2 1 1.50
2 Large Pulse Lasers (C) HD 20 4 12.00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 22 64 50.00
Crits & Tons Left: 2 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 24,431,000 C-Bills
Battle Value 2: 1,118 (old BV = 1,024)
Cost per BV2: 21,852.42
Weapon Value: 1,675 / 1,675 (Ratio = 1.50 / 1.50)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 21; MRDmg = 18; LRDmg = 12
BattleForce2: MP: 2, Armor/Structure: 2/3
Damage PB/M/L: 3/2/2, Overheat: 0
Class: MM; Point Value: 11
Specials: ecm, prb
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
02/16/14 05:36 PM
24.30.128.72
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missing the void signature system. depending on the weight, a ton of armor could be removed for it.
Now granted the armor is lighter on these ones, and the xl fusion in the 50 tonners brings up the price over the original, but it is usable.
If these are deployed in groups of 3, it might be worth having varients carrying some of the equipment instead of all of it.
Thinking about it, infantry support would be dealing with armored vehicles or other infantry? Might need to refine the weapons package for anti infantry operations.
Though the pulse laser is supposed to be good for anti infantry.
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Retry
02/16/14 06:12 PM
67.239.109.174
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An XL engine? Are you crazy?
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Retry
02/16/14 07:31 PM
67.239.109.174
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Your 60 tonner has about less than half the survivability of the original Nephilidae(Especially due to the XL engine). The 2nd one doesn't even have a VSS, which is crucial for it's survival.
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Karagin
02/16/14 07:45 PM
70.118.139.48
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Actually the VSS is not needed. Since it is there to support infantry and they will SEE the damn thing with their Mark One Eye Balls with or without the battlearmor HUD. As for the XL engine, it works well enough with it and given that this is NOT an omni mech it allows it to carry all of the goodies you had minus one or the other and again the idea isn't even remotely workable considering the other side would more then likely assign a mech to kill the damn thing and let their own BA/non-augmented infantry deal with your infantry.
Ghostrider the whole idea of Retry's needs to be redefined and rethought out.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
02/16/14 09:47 PM
24.30.128.72
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thinking about it, a movement of 2 might match infantry movement out in the open, but would not work well in forest or rough terrain.
Also, I thought battle armor had a movement of 3. Or is this particular armor slower then normal?
Also, I would figure an anti missle system would be needed against battle armor srms, but not sure if these ones have that.
Another question. Wouldn't the mech be vulnerable to swarm attacks if it can't get away from the enemy infantry?
just curious.
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Karagin
02/16/14 09:49 PM
70.118.139.48
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All good points and noting here the mechs is Quad mech not a Biped mech...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
02/16/14 10:28 PM
67.239.109.174
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You and your apparently godly Mk.I Eyeballs.
VSS is scaled up mimetic armor which in turn is basically color-changing armor that lets it blend into the environment like a chameleon. Infantry are not exempt from the targeting modifiers; they suffer from them as well as the stealth is visual and not a heat baffler like the Null system is.
Mk.I Eyeballs my ****.
XL engines WILL NOT WORK! I have tried the concept as a prototype before sticking with a SFE in-game! A faltering side torso, with an XLE, makes the mech much less capable of handling anything due to heat concerns. In which case if they manage to breach both armored torsos you will suffer incredible discomfort followed by a quick death.
The 2 LPLs are intended to dissuade whatever armor it and the infantry regiment encounters en-route, and perhaps enemy BA too. More often than not assault mechs will be obliterated by a few infantry/BA platoons and a Nephilidae, as I have tested.
Void Signature System is absolutely necessary to ensure the safety of the Nephilidae. It moves way too slow that otherwise it would be a very easy target.
It becomes an especially annoying ***** to take down when it's hull down in a heavy forest.
Biped BA has movement mods of around 1 to 3. A sprinting nephilidae can spend 3 MP on open ground.
AMS is not necessary. I originally tried a concept with LAMS and the heat producing effect taxed the heat sinks too much. I couldn't add more DHS because I was already low on space. So they were removed.
Plus to get a good shot said BA will have to be stupidly close to the Nephilidae, if it has it's VSS on.
It would be vulnerable to infantry swarms. Then again, the design is an Infantry Support Mech. Assuming said infantry are around, tough luck getting close enough.
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ghostrider
02/16/14 10:59 PM
24.30.128.72
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That answers the questions I had seen. I'm used to the run speed being a sprint.
The side torso being breached would depend on if using a clan xl or an innersphere xl.
But wouldn't losing a torso mean losing the front limb on that side? It would still move though.
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Retry
02/16/14 11:01 PM
67.239.109.174
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It would lose the front limb, yes. It could still stand upright though. It's not like it's going anywhere quickly anyways.
That and it would take an immense amount of effort to just kill off a side torso.
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Retry
02/16/14 11:02 PM
67.239.109.174
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I'd like to amend that statement. It does take an immense amount of effort.
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Karagin
02/16/14 11:15 PM
70.118.139.48
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Retry you seem to think that the other side won't have items or counters to your GOD like wonder toys in use, that is nice way of saying that you think your stuff will always win, same concept ATN keeps claiming.
All of those toys come at a price and wasting all of them on a 100 ton quad mech when it could be done on a smaller chassis doesn't make any sense, normal Clan usage or an alternate BT universe aside, it doesn't make sense to have an assault mech for this role you seem to have in mind, one that very easily stopped by the other side playing to their strengths and your weakness of slow speed, tied to the BA it is supporting and the fact that it is a quad.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
02/16/14 11:31 PM
67.239.109.174
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I didn't say or think that. Artillery and Air Support would probably be the best way to take out such a mech. It would still take a lot of it due to it's durability.
It would overall be easier to produce than the average "average" 3080s mechs, at least the basic frame of it. The ones with XLEs and endo-steel especially. The only really advanced stuff is the electronics suite, which stand more of a chance to survive in this behemoth's huge husk. Arguably it's the smaller mechs that it would be wasted on, seeing as a mistake made on their part will result in almost definite destruction of those precious electronic suites.
You can cut out the theoretical crap and actually test the design extensively as I have, and watch your arguements against it collapse.
But then again, I'm talking to the same person that just HAD to have 5x RACs on his carrier tank when it had no business carrying so many.
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Karagin
02/16/14 11:35 PM
70.118.139.48
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I can see that you don't like your stuff question or criticized. I really don't care if you liked or disliked the Dragon HAAAV.
I don't see your concept of a 100 ton mech who's sole purpose is to waddle along with Battlearmor and support it. I don't see it working and yes I can use it in my next game and see how it fails or is ignored by the other side since it's not a threat to anything else but buildings and trees.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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