ghostrider
02/22/14 06:16 PM
24.30.128.72
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What is the range of a c3? can artillery use a c3? This is a dangerous mech to have behind the lines.
The added armor is nice as well. A few people that I have seen using the original version of this mech were chargers. They would only use it for charges or dfa.
This version definately makes actually using it for shooting worth it. The charge is good too, but not the main offensive tool anymore.
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KamikazeJohnson
02/22/14 06:24 PM
50.72.218.68
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Charge/DFA is good if you have a substantial Piloting Skill advantage over your target, otherwise the To-Hit number is just too high unless you're in a situation that calls for a "Hail Mary" (or a successful charge will push his 100-tonner over a 4-level cliff...).
A lot of inexperienced players underestimate just how much damage (and aggravation) a Spider can cause with repeated back hits, kicks, and being so hard to hit. The toys just make it that much more dangerous...just pick a spot and "call down the thunder".
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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KamikazeJohnson
02/22/14 06:26 PM
50.72.218.68
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As for your original question, I don't think the C3 itself has a range, but its effect is dependent on the range of the weapons being targeted through the link. I believe it is for direct-fire only, so no Artillery...that's what the TAG is for.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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ghostrider
02/22/14 06:30 PM
24.30.128.72
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That would be something I would like to know. I believe they used lrms in indirect fire mode with the c3, but that might not have been canon. Still, a company of alacorn tanks on a hill with a spider feeding them information. The thought just sends chills down my spine.
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KamikazeJohnson
02/22/14 06:32 PM
50.72.218.68
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Total Warfare p.131-133 covers C3 networks.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Karagin
02/22/14 06:37 PM
70.118.139.48
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Nice job with the Spider, it now has a return to it's role of a scout mech and actually bring down a world of hurt on what ever it runs into.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
02/22/14 06:43 PM
24.30.128.72
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The only thing that might be questionable on the upgrade is the c3.
Maybe pulling it for a third laser would be a suggestion.
Or an anti infantry weapon(s).
Just need to make sure it has the master to be worth it.
I agree. It is a nice job with the upgrade.
Edited by ghostrider (02/22/14 06:45 PM)
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Karagin
02/22/14 06:52 PM
70.118.139.48
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The C3 works, it allows the mech to work with other DCMS mechs and vehicles and allows them to use the mech more in front line fighting as well as behind the lines raiding.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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KamikazeJohnson
02/22/14 06:58 PM
50.72.218.68
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Quote:
The C3 works, it allows the mech to work with other DCMS mechs and vehicles and allows them to use the mech more in front line fighting as well as behind the lines raiding.
That's one thing I'm not paying attention to with my upgrades is the whole "Which faction makes what technologies" so the occasional odd combination might crop up here and there.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Karagin
02/22/14 08:02 PM
70.118.139.48
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Fair enough, not like TPTB ever have worried about that at all, with TRO3055 being a good example of that.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
02/22/14 09:43 PM
24.30.128.72
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The spider is a free worlds league mech if I remember who builds them. It wasn't a dig on the design when I thought about removing it. Though I guess if you are following the time line, it might be.
It was just a suggestion to remove it for more firepower or anti infantry. I had forgotten about the time period had certain equipment for certain political entities.
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KamikazeJohnson
02/22/14 10:59 PM
24.114.41.109
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Quote:
The spider is a free worlds league mech if I remember who builds them. It wasn't a dig on the design when I thought about removing it. Though I guess if you are following the time line, it might be.
It was just a suggestion to remove it for more firepower or anti infantry. I had forgotten about the time period had certain equipment for certain political entities.
Dig away, I can take it ;-)
As a variant, I'd suggest removing the TAG and C3 (either or both) simply because not all forces will be using Artillery or C3 networks. Replace either or both with MLs. Note that even with 4 MLs, you can fire all, use full jump range, and still not overheat. The Probe and ECM of course are always useful.
Now the question is, how to avoid cloning this when I do the Ostscout lol.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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ghostrider
02/23/14 03:36 AM
24.30.128.72
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the ostscout update has no weapons on it. I thought that was completely stupid when I seen that in the tro.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
02/23/14 06:40 AM
172.56.39.55
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Everyone and there brother likes putting a 3c slave in there mechs but no one seems to want to take up the weight of a 3c master and with out a master the entire 3c network is worthless.
Why not strip out everything put in a 3c master and the weight that is left over put in Medium Lasers.
With the speed of this mech you can run in and target enemy units with the 3c for the rest of the lance that has long range weapons to hit what the 3c master lights up to be shot at
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Maurer
02/23/14 08:34 AM
142.11.67.185
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A lot of these designs are pretty close to how I redesigned the 3050 mechs.
As for the Spider, I think it would be closer to the spirit of the mech if the beagle probe is dropped and maybe the TAG or C3 slave depending on lance make up for an additional half ton of armor and MASC which fits in better with the speed/ECM/tag combo - Rush in, disrupted sensors, Tag a target for artillery or Spot for C3 network, and then get out.
"Captain! We're completely surrounded on all sides." - Kiff, Futurama
..."Excellent, then we may attack in any direction." - Zapp Brannigan, Futurama
"A fool fights a war on two fronts; only an idiot defends on one." - Fusilier
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Karagin
02/23/14 11:31 AM
70.118.139.48
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The C3 Master is 5 tons, that is a lot of weight taken by computer network system, lot of space too. If you can find away to place in mechs under 80 tons then I say go for it...it would be 100% different.
As for the Ostscout with no weapons isn't stupid, it is a smart mans mech, in that you need to know what a recon unit is there for, it's not fight, it's to scout, and report back what it finds and then run like hell if spotted or attacked. Weapons tend to get folks into fights they can't win. Seen far to many LTs and CPT think their Bradelys are tanks and end up losing their engagements because they fight like they are in tanks. Mechs like the Ostscout are not there to fight they are there to scout.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
02/23/14 02:40 PM
172.56.33.62
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Quote:
Seen far to many LTs and CPT think their Bradelys are tanks and end up losing their engagements because they fight like they are in tanks.
But they are called Bradely Fighting Vehicles, so they must be able to take a tank head on and easily win! LOL
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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ghostrider
02/23/14 03:00 PM
24.30.128.72
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I think the whole role of scout mechs means scouting. Having the electronics to do so it very important.
I don't know why, but I'm not a masc fan. Probably because I've had it lock on me consistantly on rolls of 3+. Bad luck, but after a while you learn not to us it.
The speed with the jets means this upgrade should be able to get out of harms way pretty quickly, depending on terrain. In clear open terrain, then some of the mech out there would be issues. I don't see the masc changing that.
Fighting vehicle and tank aren't the same thing. A tank can afford to stop and fight, while the bradley needs to keep moving. It can take on a tank, but not with the tactics of a tank.
Good example is a panther or commando in battletech. They can take on larger units, and mosts think they can take down a 50+ ton mech. Now it is possible, but not doing the stand and fight routine. They MUST run and use terrain.
Problem with having no weapons means you are dead when you run into something that can keep up with you and fire. Granted having a weapon may not change this anyways. Forcing a recon pilot to run should be disciplinary, not unit forced.
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Retry
02/23/14 03:03 PM
67.239.109.174
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Actually the Panther or Commando would have a decent enough chance sitting still if, for example, they hull down by a hill in a heavy woods.
I wouldn't recommend doing so for extended periods of time, but it is a possibility that can be used.
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ghostrider
02/23/14 03:17 PM
24.30.128.72
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As I said, it is possible. Most try to remain stationary and fire. They need to run and use the terrain and such.
As with most combat, the terrain would decide how well that will work. If your in a very sparsely woods area, hulling down isn't an option. Granted running isn't really an option for the panther because most mechs under 80 tons are as fast as it is.
Point I was trying to make is units have certain ways they need to be used. Alot of people ignore that and use them the way that gets them killed quickly. Most people hate light mechs because they die so quickly. Not using their speed to full effect, or trying to flank the atlas to stay out of the firing arcs of the instant death weapon, they don't last long. That may be why people love using the assault mechs, and don't bother with the lighter ones. I know I had fallen into this line of thought. Might be why I love the ac 20.
Using just light mechs in a battle tends to be a boring fight. Using them like they should be, to hits make it hard to score a hit.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
02/23/14 04:28 PM
172.56.33.62
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I have never liked ACs. They are way to heavy.
AC-20 weight 14 tons
7 heat sinks 7 tons
3 tons ammo 3 tons
Total 24 tons for a large 20 point hole in the armor, if you can hit.
Medium laser 1 ton
3 Heat sinks 3 tons
Total 4 tons, for the same 24 tons you can have six medium lasers. Granted you cant make one big hole in the armor like a AC-20 but your not worried about ammo so you can try for that 1 in 36 chance hit and with six lasers that gives you six chances to at least do some kind of damage.
The same goes for the AC-10 and the large laser.
Or the AC-5 and the PPC.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Retry
02/23/14 04:37 PM
67.239.109.174
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Everyone generally agrees that ACs suck on mechs and are even sub par on vehicles.
With them you must exploit alternate munitions and the supposed availability of autocannons.
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Karagin
02/23/14 05:00 PM
70.118.139.48
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Trying to picture a mech going hull down...yeah not seeing it happen. Then again I don't see mechs doing kungfu or flying kicks either.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
02/23/14 05:14 PM
67.239.109.174
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Hulling down is a tac ops rule. You use hills as additional cover.
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KamikazeJohnson
02/23/14 05:18 PM
24.114.41.30
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They have their uses, although there's usually a more efficient option.
Expect to see quite a few in my upgrade series...I'll see if I can make them useful.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
02/23/14 05:25 PM
172.56.33.62
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Yes at a very high cost. You use punch hit table to see where the hit fell. Instead of a 1/36 chance of you having your head hit you have a 1/6 chance of your head being hit. I personally don't think the risk is worth it.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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ghostrider
02/23/14 06:08 PM
24.30.128.72
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The autocannons are good because of low heat for the punch. I agree they are a little heavier then they should be. On vehicles, they don't require heat sinks.
I like them because one hit means several things. Piloting roll for 20+ points. More then a few times, the mech has fallen doing even more damage.
Another is alot of areas hit by the 20 means internals on that shot. More then a few ammo booms followed a single hit.
As for running an number game, well any time you roll multiple times for something you are bound to have a better chance of doing it. Technically your numbers game would mean lots of mech running around with small lasers or mgs. With that you are more likely to score a few head hits or torso crits. Or maybe a load of srm 2s for range.
I can't say autocannons are the best. All weapons have problems. I like the 20's and can't explain why.
Now using lasers you need 4 for the 20 points of damage. All have to hit to begin with. yes miss with the 20 and your screwed. Now with that you require 12 heat sinks. Even with the heat sinks it is still lighter to use the 4 mls. Upgrading to the er style, you gain range as well as damage.
So there are some disadvantages of using cannons. Thing is, most cannons are easier to build then even a medium laser. You don't need alot of tech for the cannons.
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Karagin
02/23/14 06:11 PM
70.118.139.48
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Quote:
Hulling down is a tac ops rule. You use hills as additional cover.
Retry I know what it is and how it works, just not seeing mechs using it all that well given how tall they are. Call it a more realistic look at things.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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KamikazeJohnson
02/24/14 10:31 PM
50.72.218.68
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The one no one has been waiting for...
UrbanMech UM-JM
Mass: 30 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-F-E-A
Production Year: 3050
Cost: 2,229,500 C-Bills
Battle Value: 681
Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 60 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 21.6 km/h
Maximum Speed: 32.4 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 60 meters
Armor: Unknown Ferro-Fibrous w/ CASE
Armament:
1 LB 10-X AC
1 Medium Laser
1 Small Pulse Laser
1 Guardian ECM Suite
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 51 points 1.50
Internal Locations: 4 LT, 3 RT, 4 LA, 3 RA
Engine: Fusion Engine 60 1.50
Walking MP: 2
Running MP: 3
Jumping MP: 2 Standard
Jump Jet Locations: 2 CT 1.00
Heat Sinks: Single Heat Sink 10 0.00
Heat Sink Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT, 2 LL, 2 RL
Gyro: Standard 1.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA R: SH+UA
Armor: Ferro-Fibrous AV - 105 6.00
Armor Locations: 6 LT, 2 RT, 5 LA, 1 RA
CASE Locations: 1 RT 0.50
Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 10 12
Center Torso (rear) 8
L/R Torso 7 10
L/R Torso (rear) 4
L/R Arm 5 10
L/R Leg 7 14
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LB 10-X AC RA 2 6 11.00
Small Pulse Laser LA 2 1 1.00
Guardian ECM Suite RT 0 2 1.50
Medium Laser HD 3 1 1.00
@LB 10-X (Cluster) (10) RT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 1
BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 4 Points: 7
2j 2 2 1 0 1 0 Structure: 3
Special Abilities: ECM, CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA, FLK 1/1/1
DESIGN NOTES:
Usually when people talk about modifying R2D2, the first thing that comes up is
dropping the AC for a PPC. However, that would be a violation of the spirit of
the original design: if it doesn't have an Autocannon, it's not an UrbanMech.
The obvious upgrade is to replace the AC/10 with an LB-10X, both improving
performance and freeing up a ton. The official 3050 version adds a SPL and calls it
done, but there's more that can be done.
Endo Steel saves 1.5 tons; dropping the mysterious 11th Heat Sink saves
another. Ferro Fibrous Armour maximizes protection at no extra cost.
CASE protects the ammo, providing a dramatic increase in the 'Mech's
survivability. Upgrade the Small Laser to an SPL for Anti-Infantry. A
Head-mounted Medium Laser allows the 'Mech to keep fighting even after the AC
is damaged or runs out of ammo. Finally, a Guardian ECM Suite to mess with
enemy sensors and electronics, an essential item to protect hidden friendly Vehicles and Infantry.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Karagin
02/24/14 10:40 PM
70.118.139.48
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What about dual UAC5s?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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