His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
03/01/14 08:37 PM
172.56.39.144
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Range is 4 for IS and 5 for Clan.
You scan at end of movement and not during your movement. If you are travailing at a fast speed you could go right past a hidden unit and never know it was ever there.
You must have line of sight to the target your scanning.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Karagin
03/01/14 08:37 PM
70.118.139.48
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I can't wait to see what you do with the Cicada...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/01/14 08:40 PM
67.239.109.174
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That's more of a flaw with rule technicalities and not the BAP itself.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
03/01/14 08:42 PM
172.56.39.144
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Them are the rules.
Another thing is if your not using hidden rules in the game your playing the BAR is just wasted weight
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Retry
03/01/14 08:45 PM
67.239.109.174
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Clearly we are assuming we are using at least some rules which use BAPs so it wouldn't be wasted weight.
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Karagin
03/01/14 08:46 PM
70.118.139.48
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Assuming that players are doing anything is not a good idea.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
03/01/14 08:54 PM
24.30.128.72
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without going through everything, I believe one of the mechwarrior editions said something about visual range being 60 hexes. This is from a poor memory.
Now you guys are making it hard to stay on subject.
There is one assumption that remains true.
It players don't like something, they will ignore it.
The tag might be usable without being shot at. It just takes some good die rolls, and people not paying attention to the tree swaying for no reason.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
03/01/14 09:01 PM
172.56.39.144
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You must be within 15 hexes to use TAG.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Retry
03/01/14 09:01 PM
67.239.109.174
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*20 with extreme range rules*
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ghostrider
03/01/14 09:02 PM
24.30.128.72
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Yes. That is true. There are ways to be within 15 hexes and not be shot at. Most of them deal with high movement rate in 2 woods hexes, but there are others.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
03/01/14 09:17 PM
172.56.39.144
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There are no extreme range rules with TAG its 15 hexes or your out of range.
Moving affects your ability to keep a target lit with TAG. If you ever lose LOS to the target the missiles miss with no role aloud. You must keep LOS with the target for the entire time the missiles are in flight.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Retry
03/01/14 09:26 PM
67.239.109.174
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I know I'm going to sound like a hypocrit.
BUT
Citation needed.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
03/01/14 09:28 PM
172.56.39.144
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All of the rules for BAR and TAG are in Battletech Compendium.
I'm sure their in other updated books but I don't own them
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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ghostrider
03/01/14 09:40 PM
24.30.128.72
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With a jump of 9, I can drop in a second set of heavy woods gaining the 3 protection while denying it to you. At medium/long range for the weapons that can fire out this far, the jump +5, and the 2 heavy woods should mean most gunnery skill level of 4 would no be able to hit at long range, and maybe 11 at medium. That is without your unit moving.
Now if i wanted to be a real ****, I don't have to target your unit specifically. I could target someone stationary where you are at and let the artillery damage hit you. It would be at -4 to hit. If I recall right, there is not range differences to tag. Now if I target you, i have +3 for the jump and maybe +2 for the heavy woods inbetween us. So yeah, a 9 for me to hit you in this situation. Now if i went into the closest woods, I drop +2 from both sides.
If you move and don't move more then 3, the I only have 7 to hit you. You are 10's at medium range, and 12's at long. That is IF you have the weapons that fire at these ranges. A hunchback would have not shot unless they have the lrm variant.
This changes if I run or even walk into the woods. Yes, my movement drops to 7 instead of 8 to get into the woods. If I just get behind them, then I could keep the 9 move.
Granted this is not likely everytime I go to fire, but you get the idea, i hope.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
03/01/14 09:49 PM
172.56.39.144
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If you target the space you do only 5 points of damage to any unit in the hex you target. TAG guided missiles do no damage to surrounding hexes. You just wasted a very expensive missiles to do the damage of a medium laser. It would have been better to use non TAG guided missiles to target the hex.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Karagin
03/01/14 09:56 PM
70.118.139.48
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Retry, the rules from Mechwarrior don't translate well to the table top BT game. Many players don't mix the two at all.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
03/01/14 09:57 PM
70.118.139.48
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Technical Manual and Total Warfare should set you straight on TAG and BAP and BHP, as well as many other things Retry.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/01/14 10:02 PM
67.239.109.174
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When did Mechwarrior ever get added to the equation?
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ghostrider
03/01/14 10:42 PM
24.30.128.72
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I was wrong on the targetting numbers to designate a target. It does have a short, medium, and long range section.
Now if it does hit, roll 2d6. any result above a 4 hits the target. The damage is apply as the shot came from the designator. 20 points of artillery damage to the target from the side the designator was on, and 5 points to everything else in the hex.
It would be worth the gamble of having shots fired on the mech to get in short range and target the back of a mech. Jump back out the next round.
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Karagin
03/01/14 11:57 PM
70.118.139.48
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So Kamakize do you plan on similar takes on the rest of the OST series of mechs?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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KamikazeJohnson
03/02/14 12:13 AM
50.72.218.68
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Quote:
So Kamakize do you plan on similar takes on the rest of the OST series of mechs?
Haven't even looked at them yet. I do plan on leaving them with at least a few weapons each...
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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ghostrider
03/02/14 02:03 AM
24.30.128.72
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The scout mech is a weird issue because of the scouts should not be in battle sort of thing.
Let's face it. A scout without high end equipment is nothing more the an excuse for the commanders son to avoid combat.
I really think mechs should have hands if they aren't lacking the crits. Especially the ones people would see as raiders. Grab and smash raids work only whey you can grab.
Getting out of mech to put things in a net, then hook it up to a mech.. With no mechs having hands, that makes it extremely difficult if not impossible, since I doubt every place you raid with have a convienent loader around.
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KamikazeJohnson
03/02/14 11:32 AM
50.72.218.68
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Panther PNT-JM
Mass: 35 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-F-E-A
Production Year: 3050
Cost: 3,112,110 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,009
Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 140 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor w/ CASE
Armament:
1 ER PPC
1 SRM-4 w/ Artemis IV FCS
1 Medium Laser
1 Anti-Missile System
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 58 points 2.00
Internal Locations: 1 HD, 2 LT, 4 RT, 5 LA, 2 RA
Engine: Fusion Engine 140 5.00
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 4 Standard
Jump Jet Locations: 2 LL, 2 RL 2.00
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 10(20) 0.00
Heat Sink Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT, 1 RA
Gyro: Standard 2.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 112 7.00
CASE Locations: 1 LT 0.50
Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 11 14
Center Torso (rear) 7
L/R Torso 8 11
L/R Torso (rear) 5
L/R Arm 6 12
L/R Leg 8 13
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER PPC RA 15 3 7.00
Medium Laser LA 3 1 1.00
Anti-Missile System LT 1 1 0.50
SRM-4 CT 3 1 2.00
Artemis IV FCS CT - 1 1.00
@SRM-4 (25) LT - 1 1.00
@Anti-Missile System (12) LT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 4
BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 4 Points: 10
4j 2 2 1 0 1 1 Structure: 3
Special Abilities: AMS, CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA
DESIGN NOTES:
I've always liked the design concept of the Panther, and I've applied the same
philisophy to many of my own designs: moderate speed, one might even say slow
for a Light 'Mech, but enough to keep pace with the heaviier units it's
intended to support. The reduced speed means both more tonnage available for
weapons, and a lower cost due to the smaller engine. Plus, the smaller engine
indirectly makes the "mech more ikely to survive a critical hit, as more of the
heat Sinks are placed, providing a "safe" item to possibly absorb a critical
hit.
I was mostly happy with the FA$A upgrade for this one: Endo Steel to save 1.5
tons, DHS to handle the increased heat of the obvious upgrade to an ERPPC,
Artemis IV for the SRM, CASE for the ammo. However the oversight of leaving
the Panther with 13 Heat Sinks rather than reducing to the default 10 irked me,
as 3 tons can be significant on a 'Mech this size.
So with 3 tons to spare I went to work. Half ton for armour, 1 ton for a
Medium Laser, and 1.5 tons or an AMS and Ammo. I could have used 2.5 tons to
upgrade the speed rather than equipment, but I chose to stick with the original
concept and just give it a little more punch.
An XL Engine would have saved enough tonnage to up the speed to 6/9/6, which is
fast enough to compensate at least partially for the increased vulnerability,
but i felt that much of an increase lost the spirit of the design, which is a
stand-and-fight support for heavier 'Mechs, and I preferred the slower speed.
OTOH, the Panther is too fragile to justify using the XL to save a mere 2.5
tons at its current speed.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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KamikazeJohnson
03/02/14 11:37 AM
50.72.218.68
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Well, that's all for the Light 'Mechs. This thread is starting to get a bit cumbersome, so I'll start a fresh thread for the Medium 'Mechs.
Really loving the lively discussions on this thread. Keep it up!
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Karagin
03/02/14 12:19 PM
70.118.139.48
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I like this take on the Panther. It balances out and allows you to gain flexibility.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
03/02/14 03:02 PM
24.30.128.72
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Instead of the artemis, would it have been better to upgrade the 4 pack to a 6 pack?
Or went with lrms to compliment the erppcs range?
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KamikazeJohnson
03/02/14 03:09 PM
24.114.44.46
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Quote:
Instead of the artemis, would it have been better to upgrade the 4 pack to a 6 pack?
Or went with lrms to compliment the erppcs range?
The SRM 4/Artemis is very close in damage to the SRM 6, generates 1 less heat (minor, but every bit counts if you're firing that ERPPC up close), but more importantly you get more ammo with the SRM 4. Besides, the ERPPC/SRM 6 combo is what you see on a Scorpion...
Thought about LRMs, but decided to stay closer to the standard weapon set. Although if I was using more modern tech, I would absolutely have gone with a MML.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Retry
03/02/14 03:16 PM
72.214.204.166
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I'll need to get number crunching to find average damages of the two again later.
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ghostrider
03/02/14 03:30 PM
24.30.128.72
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There is one mech that may not be here. It wasn't in the 3025 book, but was in the 4th succession war.
Are you going to do anything with the wolfhound?
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KamikazeJohnson
03/02/14 05:25 PM
24.114.44.46
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Quote:
There is one mech that may not be here. It wasn't in the 3025 book, but was in the 4th succession war.
Are you going to do anything with the wolfhound?
The Wolfhound apprears in the Revised TRO:3025 (the one without the Unseen) if I recall. I'm not familiar with most of the designs specific to that edition, so I don't have the same built-in desire to tinker with them, but I might cover them after I deal with everything from the original TRO:3025.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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