Retry
02/23/14 12:49 AM
67.239.109.174
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The success in the development of the Salticidae mech led Crossroads to develop a medium mech using the same concept. For a similar weapon package the Microsalticidae is 30 tons lighter, capable of leaping up to a whopping 300 meters in a standard atmosphere, and uses standard armor that isn't as vulnerable to artillery.
However, despite having nearly maximum armor allotment the Microsalticidae has an XL engine and gyro, making it more vulnerable to lost side torsos and torso crits. And, as a consequence of using the advanced engine, it is roughly as expensive as the Salticidae assault mech. Despite the disadvantages, the Microsalticidae is a worthy mech to be derived from the venerable Salticidae.
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Microsalticidae Mk.I Raider Mech
Mixed (Base Clan)
55 tons
BV: 2,106
Cost: 12,707,416 C-bills
Source: Crossroads
Movement: 5/8/10
Engine: 275 XL
Double Heat Sinks: 11 [25]
Cockpit: Small Cockpit
Gyro: XL Gyro
Internal: 99
Armor: 200/201
Internal Armor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 18 27
Center Torso (rear) 8
Right Torso 13 20
Right Torso (rear) 6
Left Torso 13 20
Left Torso (rear) 6
Front Right Leg 13 26
Front Left Leg 13 26
Rear Right Leg 13 26
Rear Left Leg 13 26
Weapons Loc Heat
Large Pulse Laser RT 10
Large Pulse Laser LT 10
Micro Pulse Laser HD 1
Micro Pulse Laser HD 1
ER Micro Laser LT 1
ER Micro Laser RT 1
Equipment Loc
Partial Wing LT
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Retry
02/23/14 01:15 AM
67.239.109.174
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Hmm, tested a lance of 2 of these, a Salticidae, and a Nephilidae on the AI. The AI hit the Nephilidae a lot because I was bored and decided it would pretend to be superman and "charge" at the Mad Cat, Daishi, Vulture III, and some other heavy quad mech. Which hit it. A lot. Yet it never had it's internals breached once.
So, at similar BVs *and C-Bills and tonnage*, the clan force got clobbered.
I'm thinking this is a bit munchy. Ah well.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
02/23/14 06:23 AM
172.56.39.55
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Now try testing it as a table top game with real humans controlling the other force that know what they are doing and not some mindless computer that a small child could beat with out even half trying.
Your fancy gizmos wont hold up.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Retry
02/23/14 11:08 AM
67.239.109.174
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Already tried the "fancy gizmos" against other people. The current Salticidae is the result of many tests against people; despite the Mk.I designation this is probably the 4th or 5th improvement I've given it. Same with the Nephilidae.
The Microsalticidae is currently the only one I have not live-tested, and was created only a day ago, so it's not like I've had the time yet.
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Karagin
02/23/14 11:33 AM
70.118.139.48
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Sorry Retry but I find it hard to believe that the folks you play against in real life non-MegaMek online links etc...have not shown you how bad your idea of infantry support mechs are. Might I suggest you face a different group of people who you have NOT played against before and see how it turns out, that way you get different set of variables and thus a better view.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
02/23/14 02:17 PM
72.214.204.166
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Don't play the board game for already stated reasons.
Idk if is different in Texas, but here one does not simply find another group of people who just so happen to desire the same thing you want to do.
And the Microsalticidae is not an infantry support mech.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
02/23/14 02:42 PM
172.56.33.62
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Quote:
Don't play the board game.
Yes we know, it shows!
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Retry
02/23/14 02:54 PM
67.239.109.174
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Which part, the part that I actually know the advanced rules?
The only point where I completely screwed up is with the submarine underwater MP. People rarely use such units and thus wouldn't likely know many rules about them anyways.
Whereas I know you've been wrong with at least the Void Signature System AND the Hardened armor.
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ghostrider
02/23/14 03:09 PM
24.30.128.72
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have you tried megamek with other units with the advanced feature without having them combined on one mech? It looks like the game targets the closest unit, which would explain some of the results.
And from what it looks like, hardened armor should never have made it into the game. You basically have to kill the mech twice to get thru the armor. That is a major way to unbalance the game. This is the producers/designers fault.
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Retry
02/23/14 03:19 PM
67.239.109.174
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1 ton of Hardened Armor can absorb only the same amount of damage as 1 ton standard armor, plus crit bonuses and with the addition of tandem charge warheads dealing damage as normal and -1 running MP for mechs... And for mechs, it increases the target PSR roll making them more difficult to stay upright, which will often offset the additional durability given by hardened armor for bipeds.
When you do try to max hardened armor, armament and speed suffer, as shown on the Nephilidae.
And this bloody design doesn't even have it.
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ghostrider
02/23/14 04:01 PM
24.30.128.72
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Now your definition of hardened armor changed from the Nephilidae. In that thread it was said that the armor actually takes 2 points before being destroyed. I'll have to get into that one to continue this discussion.
I do ask that if you have odd things on the mech, that it is notated somewhere in the equipment list. the advanced jump jets should be allocated in the equipment section. It appears the program you are using doesn't do that. This is just a request.
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Retry
02/23/14 04:05 PM
67.239.109.174
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My definition hasn't changed. Hardened armor does take 2 points before being destroyed. However, hardened armor gives 4 points per half ton as opposed to 8 points per half ton with standard armor.
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Karagin
02/23/14 04:58 PM
70.118.139.48
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It is not easy to find folks in Texas, but when I do, they are more then happy to play BT and even willing to try some new things, but then again I do travel a bit and I do visit my old gaming group at least twice a year work willing and time etc...point is knowing the advance rules by reading them and actually using them in a board game with someone else who might interpret them a bit differently or doesn't want to use them at all is another matter.
The game is meant to be played face to face with people, not solitaire via the non-official non-canon MeagMek.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
02/23/14 04:59 PM
172.56.33.62
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I agree with Retry I don't see that hardened armor as being unbalancing to the game. I see the negatives equaling out the positives.
Yes it gives you a lot more armor protection but there is some big prices to pay for that advantage.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Retry
02/23/14 05:12 PM
67.239.109.174
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I refuse to bother people IRL and take time out of their schedule to play a game.
Especially when it can be done faster via Megamek and with less error, especially with the amount of advanced rules and elements I want to scramble in, including but not limited to Tac ops rules like Double Blind, Direct Hits, Glancing Blows, ECCM, Ghost Targets, Additional vehicle crew effects, Altered Energy Weapon Damages, Cluster Hit Penalties, Advanced Anti Aircraft rules, among others...
If you can somehow manage to memorize all that flawlessly on the boardgame, as people on the forum say, all the power to you.
And this has nothing to do with the Microsalticidae.
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Karagin
02/23/14 06:19 PM
70.118.139.48
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Wow that is a dim view on things, the number of games I have played both BT and others have allowed me to make new friends and find folks to share an enjoyable time together playing the games we enjoy.
The point is to have Retry and interact with people, learn from them, see how they react etc...you can't get any of that from a computer game.
Actually this does have something to do with your design since you keep testing them via this non-official knock off of the actual game, and we keep pointing out that real people won't play the way the AI does. They are not going to let you have advantages without paying of them and they are not going to ingore your BA focusing on the mechs or vise versa.
Your designs need to be tested against people. Seriously how close to Central Texas are you? I will have free time in July to do some traveling, so if you want to play the game face to face let me know.
And the rule books are there, they are guides and if something comes up, you defer to them and go off of what they say, applying common sense where needed to them and move on with the game, as I said it's about fun and enjoyment. You do not need to memorize all of the rules, you need the basics and go from there, consulting the rules as things come up. Hence the part in the rules about players agreeing before hand on what rules are allowed etc...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
02/23/14 07:30 PM
67.239.109.174
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I know the friends IRL in this small-ish neighbourhood I do have would not be interested, and I am content with that.
The program supports battles against other people as well as AI.
However, I hope to get an actual game against another person with the program to test it this week.
Let's not let this go off topic anymore.
What about the Microsalticidae mech do you specifically have an issue with?
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Karagin
02/23/14 07:45 PM
70.118.139.48
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It is not off topic. IF this is suppose to work with the infantry support mech then your original statement about all you needing was that other mech and your BA was not correct. This one shows that you need more then just a 100 ton slug mech to make through a fight.
The issue I have with this one is the whole wing thing, then again that is not something I would use on a mech, Battlearmor maybe, but a mech no.
And if you are having issues playing against other folks, use the net to find groups around your area to join, that is what I have done, and you would be surprised as to what can be found. And if MegaMek truly allowed human vs human play then you would be rolling your own dice and marking the record sheet when damage was taken. Hence the idea of human interaction.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
02/23/14 07:48 PM
70.118.139.48
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Can you use the CODE tags when you post please, it makes reading things easier.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
02/23/14 07:52 PM
67.239.109.174
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You mean my other post where I said I used these 2 mechs, and a normal salticidae and a Nephilidae? I just felt like using that combination at the time, that's all.
The partial wing? It's to boost the jumping MP in normal atmosphere. a THM of +4 due to traveling 10 spaces +1 jumping target for a total of +5 even at short ranges is quite handy.
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Karagin
02/23/14 08:03 PM
70.118.139.48
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To me mechs are ground machines, jump jets push things for me. Mechs are walking tanks and very few tanks are airdropped and given that these things are technically built by lowest bidder, yeah what a great idea to add more stuff to break it.
Again it's one of those things that is cool at first but like a lot of the wonder toys gets to be a pain and can cost you a battle if not used right.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
02/23/14 08:12 PM
67.239.109.174
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Jump jets lets you be maneuverable in rugged terrain. Tanks that can mount jump jets don't do so very well.
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Is the code tab what you use when you post your things?
I don't like that font.
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Karagin
02/23/14 08:17 PM
70.118.139.48
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And I don't like reading the mess that is your posting of text for the designs. The CODE tags allow things to line up a lot better and easier to read.
Yes they do allow you to maneuverable in rough terrain, but they also get you into trouble and drive up heat.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
02/23/14 08:19 PM
67.239.109.174
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Quite frankly I don't find your code tag easier to read at all.
IJJs produce a lot less heat than regular JJs. This mech can JJ all day while still firing the primary weapons, and will not gain heat in normal planetary conditions.
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Karagin
02/23/14 09:45 PM
70.118.139.48
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So a lined up format that for the most part put things like the numbers and what goes where in a colum format is harder to read then jumbled mess of copying and pasting...yeah not seeing that one either.
Great you have an alpha strike mech that can do all those things, meanwhile how are those jets and wings going to help you actually fight?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
02/23/14 09:48 PM
67.239.109.174
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All that you do is stretch out the letters and make them lighter grey, which is harder to see on the white backround.
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Retry
02/23/14 09:52 PM
67.239.109.174
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The JJs allow the mech to dictate the range of it's engagement and be stupidly hard to hit in the process. Or, if initiative is lost, make a hasty retreat only mediums or lights can catch up to.
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Karagin
02/23/14 09:53 PM
70.118.139.48
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Lighter grey? What are your settings?
I see Times New Roman Font on a white background all in nice lined up format that shows things in a readable format.
You do know you can adjust things right?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
02/23/14 09:54 PM
67.239.109.174
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Why would I adjust something that looks fine to me?
The font on my CPU is already Times New Roman.
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Karagin
02/23/14 09:54 PM
70.118.139.48
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Only if those lights or mediums are silly enough to chase after you, which most players won't be. Not in a city or rough terrain. And who is to say the other side doesn't have jump jet equipped mechs facing you?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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