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03/03/14 11:54 PM
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Marauder MAD-4M
IS TW non-box set
75 tons
BV: 1,465
Cost: 15,183,438 C-bills
Source:
Movement: 4/6
Engine: 300 XL
Double Heat Sinks: 14 [28]
Gyro: Standard Gyro
Internal: 114 (Endo-Steel)
Armor: 231/231
Internal Armor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 23 35
Center Torso (rear) 11
Right Torso 16 24
Right Torso (rear) 8
Left Torso 16 24
Left Torso (rear) 8
Right Arm 12 24
Left Arm 12 24
Right Leg 16 32
Left Leg 16 32
Weapons Loc Heat
ER Large Laser LA 12
ER Large Laser RA 12
AC/2 RT 1
AC/2 RT 1
AC/2 RT 1
Small Pulse Laser RA 2
Small Pulse Laser LA 2
Medium Laser LA 3
Medium Laser RA 3
Small Laser HD 1
Ammo Loc Shots
AC/2 Ammo LT 45
AC/2 Ammo LT 45
AC/2 Ammo LT 45
AC/2 Ammo LT 45
Equipment Loc
CASE LT
This MAD-4M was built in anticipation to use special ammunition being developed for the autocannon. For this job it features a substantial ammo bay
The mech got finished pretty quickly, but the special ammunition never finished development until a long, long time afterwards.
Twin ERLLs are lighter than the original PPCs, and deal slightly less damage but get slightly better range brackets. It's ammo bay was to take use of multiple types of ammo, such as flak, flechettes, and precision, but such a capability wasn't achieved until much later. CASE now protects the cannon ammo.
In close range combat, it's primary supplemental weapons are it's twin MLs. It can fire those and the ERLL without much problem. Add in the SL and SPLs though and the heat can get out of hand rapidly, so firing those are normally ill-advised except as anti-infantry/BA support, which is partially why they are attached.
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ghostrider
03/04/14 12:02 AM
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interesting you have the ac 2's. Thinking too much ammo, but that depends on if you are running a full campaign in one session. Even with special ammo cutting it in half, there is alot of ammo.
It would be better minus a heat sink or 2 and another weapon or so.
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03/04/14 12:38 AM
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Check it's alpha strike output.
Just saying.
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ghostrider
03/04/14 12:39 AM
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using small lasers and ac 2's together? did I miss something here?
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03/04/14 12:43 AM
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24 from the ERLL, 3 AC, 6 ML, 4 SPL, 1. SL.
Totals 38 standing still.
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Karagin
03/04/14 12:50 AM
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Ditch the AC2s and go with a UAC5.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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03/04/14 12:58 AM
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I guess I can just say to hell with the fluff then.
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ghostrider
03/04/14 12:59 AM
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ok so 33 heatpoints on the alpha. Using the small lasers with the ac 2's is not a bright idea. Ac 2's minimum range is 4 if i remember right. It is already in poor to hits before the small lasers are effective.
But then if you are that desperate, then you should kick as well.
Ammo dump would be advisable as well at that point.
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03/04/14 01:02 AM
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The ERLL and ML is to cover the AC min range.
The lasers are for anti infantry/BA
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ghostrider
03/04/14 01:10 AM
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so an alpha strike firing all weapons does what? If you got ba on you, the acs are useless. using the arms to swat the ba, might be better then shooting yourself if you miss. Hell, using the arms for physicals removes all laser fire.
No word on if it has hands or not. Program needs work.
And just because it's a marauder does not mean it can't have hands.
I will leave the other arguments in the other threads.
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03/04/14 11:43 AM
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Marauders don't have hands. That is partially why they are marauders.
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ghostrider
03/04/14 03:58 PM
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wow. that is a great reason why a mech can't have hands.
I guess I will have to use that argument from now on. The original mech didn't have them, so why should it have them now.
The original mech didn't have ac 2. it had a 5. It also didn't have the small lasers as back up.
anyways. Alpha strikes are nice, but most of the time you are trying to cool down from them. 5 heat isn't that bad, though it's not great either.
I say 5 because if you fire both the cannons and the small lasers, you are either stupid or desperate. This is assuming you are firing all the other weapons. Now if you have infantry, including ba doing a close attack, and are using the small lasers, then either the cannons or maybe on of the arms isn't gonna be used for firing.
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03/04/14 04:54 PM
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Yes, it is a great reason why mechs cannot have hands.
Hmm, perhaps we should put hands on the Mad Cat. So what if the original didn't have them. So what if there isn't any hand actuator designed for it.
No, better yet, let's 1 up that and make it a tripod. The original mech didn't have the 3rd leg but that won't matter man.
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ghostrider
03/04/14 05:00 PM
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clans do have hands in pods. They do use them as needed. Or did they do away with this in the newer rules?
now a tripod is a little difficult to balance. Lets just make it a quad now. Get the benefits of extra stability.
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03/04/14 05:16 PM
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Never heard of hand pods, ever.
And mechs don't work that way I don't believe.
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ghostrider
03/04/14 05:22 PM
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page 123 in the battletech compendium. You can also mount jump jets in pods.
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03/04/14 05:50 PM
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Well, this isn't an omni, and seeing as marauders never had hand actuators you'd be hard pressed to find some that fit it.
Especially when the laser barrel is where the hand is supposed to be. That could present a problem.
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ghostrider
03/04/14 05:57 PM
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I could use that argument back at you with the ac 2s, the small lasers, and such. Even the large lasers don't feel like a marauder. PPC, medium laser, and ac 5 is a marauder.
And you could mount the hand in the area between the arms. Or move the weapons out a little and mount the hands.
We wont even get into marauders didn't have dhs either.
Upgrades and variants don't always have what the originals do.
But the comment of not knowing if it has hands or not was to show the program you are using to show us the information on your units is very lacking in alot of details.
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03/04/14 06:07 PM
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The lasers and AC/2s already exists in many models. You just have to mount them.
The hand actuators would have to be either taken from another mech, probably making it look really wierd and frankenmechish, or developed and built for the new Marauder. I don't see this happening.
This isn't a development of the 3R. It's of the 3M. The one with the dual large lasers used by the Free World League. So the PPCs would be out of place.
Well, the program I am using shows it inside the program itself, which is what really matters to me. As I said, it's more of a overview.
Oh, and it's free too.
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ghostrider
03/04/14 06:15 PM
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According to the books, I think the House Marik, they say the fwl has issues making ppcs, but yet the awesome mech comes from there. It makes sense that the fwl would use the lasers for other mechs.
But as people said about the urbanmech.
I like the original and think the variants are detracting from it.
Same can be said of the warhammer.
Just saying the original didn't have it doesn't mean a variant can't.
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03/04/14 06:58 PM
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A PPC wouldn't make sense on a mech whose previous variant, the 3M used large lasers.
The 4M is a logical upgrade to ERLLs plus a not-so-logical array of AC/2s.
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Cray
03/04/14 07:06 PM
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Nope, I couldn't use this. It manages to punch a lot of my dislike buttons.
First, an AC/5 is just about useless to begin with. It's 5 points at 18 hexes for 8 tons plus ammo. I could have an LRM 15 and two tons of specialty LRM ammo and indirect fire instead of an AC/5 and 1 ton of ammo. Or I could replace it with a light PPC and free up 6 tons for a lot more firepower than I can get out of an AC/5 even with its specialty ammo. Precision ammo is nice, but...no, I'd prefer all the options and firepower of an LRM or the firepower of several Light PPCs, medium lasers, etc.
But this doesn't have an AC/5. It has 3 AC/2s, a big pile of tonnage delivering the same average firepower (with less versatility) than I could get from 1 LRM 10 (let alone an equal tonnage of LRMs.)
Then there are Inner Sphere small pulse lasers, which have negligible utility even against infantry. I'd prefer to stand off and engage infantry with standard medium lasers at up to 9 hexes rather than hoping the pulse effect is useful at 1 or 2 hexes. For 2 to 9 hexes, you have equal or better target numbers than small pulse lasers and can usually back away faster than infantry can advance. Against non-infantry units, you do more damage per ton with standard MLs.
The small laser and incompletely spent last ton of armor would make a nice DHS.
The basic chassis is nice, though.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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ghostrider
03/04/14 07:07 PM
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the 3m is a variant of the 3r.
I do allow the logic of the fwl not having ppcs to work with and changing to large lasers. This is a mater of logistics.
But your concept of not changing designs with variants is illogical when the unit that you are using is a changed variant of the original.
There is circular logic in this case.
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ghostrider
03/04/14 07:12 PM
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only the original game designers could say wiether the original marauder had hands or not.
Using new cars as a basis for this idea. Cars used to come with cigerette lighters standard. They stopped doing that to same money. Now it is extra for the lighter, but ye the normal price never came down when they stopped putting them in.
Same could apply to mechs. Save a few thousand bucks be removing the hands off a mech, but charge the customers for it.
For all we know the starleague models had cup holders and cd players in them. As well as a spinning disco ball.
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03/04/14 07:13 PM
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Right.
In which case the PPC arm cannons would shoot out the hands.
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ghostrider
03/04/14 07:14 PM
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or have a set up like the panther.
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03/04/14 07:15 PM
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The artwork shows it does not have a panther-like set up.
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ghostrider
03/04/14 07:23 PM
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I know that. Problem is the artwork has some issues with it when you look at other mechs and their artwork. The wolverine is one. That cannister it carries is useless to move ammo from it to the autocannon.
The satelite dish on the javelin is another one. Can't remember which, but there is some artwork showing a weapon on a mech that isn't there.
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03/04/14 07:25 PM
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I'm 90% sure canon recordsheets of it does not use the hand actuators.
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ghostrider
03/04/14 07:36 PM
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you miss the point. Just because the original doesn't have it, does not mean a variant can not have it.
Your version of the marauder here shows that. NO marauder to date has every used an ac 2. Much less 3 of them
I believe non have uses small lasers either.
Variants do not always mean just weapon changes. Some add heat sinks, while others move physical changes.
It is like the fireball. You were sooo intent on making it use double heat sinks, but the original didn't have them. It didn't need them with the only weapons being an mg and a streak. Karagin put on the ml.
Does the mech require hands? no.
Does that mean it shouldn't have them? no.
Would it kill the mech to have them? no.
As you stated, a few extra c-bills might mean the difference between victory and defeat. A full damage punch is much better then a half damage punch that could throw your optics for the lasers out. But then battle tech does not take that into account.
Same thing with possibly bending support struts as they take alot of pressure in an area they weren't supposed to.
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