Retry
03/04/14 07:56 PM
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A alternate history main battlemech, this quad would fight Mad Cat battlemechs very frequently and fiercely.
----
Arachnid Main BattleMech
Clan TW
75 tons
BV: 2,775
Cost: 18,808,124 C-bills
Source: Crossroads
Movement: 5/8/5
Engine: 375 XL
Double Heat Sinks: 15 [30]
Cockpit: Small Cockpit
Gyro: Standard Gyro
Internal: 122 (Endo-Steel)
Armor: 247/247 (Ferro-Fibrous)
Internal Armor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 23 35
Center Torso (rear) 11
Right Torso 16 24
Right Torso (rear) 8
Left Torso 16 24
Left Torso (rear) 8
Front Right Leg 16 32
Front Left Leg 16 32
Rear Right Leg 16 32
Rear Left Leg 16 32
Weapons Loc Heat
Large Pulse Laser RT 10
Large Pulse Laser LT 10
Large Pulse Laser HD 10
Flamer CT 3
Equipment Loc
Targeting Computer LT
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ghostrider
03/04/14 08:34 PM
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armor location is the only way to tell this is a quad.
It is usable in the field.
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Retry
03/04/14 08:35 PM
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You can also look at my fluff which says it's a quad.
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Retry
03/04/14 08:37 PM
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And "usable" is a bit of an understatement. It is easily a match for the Mad Cat.
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ghostrider
03/04/14 08:45 PM
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with the tc it is more accurate then most of the versions.
For the ppc streak version i would say it would likely beat it.
with the other versions, it is a toss up. Terrain would be a big factor.
In the open, you could get in a few shots before the madcat got close enough to bring the rest of the weapons to bear.
Though the erppc one could keep out of your range while plucking away.
Not knowing the rules of the torso mounted weapons on a quad are an issue for me. If you cann't fire behind you, I would give a non clan played cat the advantage.
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Karagin
03/04/14 08:45 PM
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Not a match for a Mad Cat, more like a target for a Timber Wolf.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
03/04/14 08:48 PM
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Basically is a timberwolf with small cockpit and jets.
Just not a normal variant of one.
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Retry
03/04/14 08:50 PM
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MM, your timberwolf of your choice vs this mech.
Ah, wait, you have something against it.
Anyone else then?
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Karagin
03/04/14 10:19 PM
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Why would I play a computer based game that is NOT the board game? Oh wait I wouldn't since its' not the official game thus not something to worry about.
Now if you were to be willing to play at a convention we could meet at then sure. And Yes I think the Timber Wolf can take down your mech, any version the 75 ton Timber Wolf.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/04/14 10:23 PM
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Why would I play the board game when I could play on the CPU and avoid all the hassles, which in such a case includes interstate travel, associated with the board game?
What's funny is that you won't even try it at all to assess the accuracy it has with portrayal of the rules.
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Karagin
03/04/14 10:31 PM
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Let me break it down for you, it's a computer game, where a user can make changes to the files thus the ability to cheat is FAR EASIER then the table top game, and let me break it down even further for you, I would rather play face to face thus getting to know the person on a human level and have a social interface in a manner that allows folks to have fun and increase friendships.
Also it's not an official product of BT, it's a fan made system, you can tout all you want about how it follows the rules, it is not an official product.
Now really what do you have against playing face to face? Is it too hard for you? If it's about having actually miniatures, no need to worry, plenty of proxy items or other mechs to use.
I just don't understand your need to play online when there is a world of people out there to meet and have a good time playing against in a fun and friendly game.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/04/14 10:44 PM
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What's your average battletech game length?
Have you actually gone through and changed the files before to know it would be far easier to cheat?
Have you never misplaced or messed up a rule due to misunderstanding of said rule?
Do you use Double Blind?
And yes, I'm not enthusiastic on the concept of traversing multiple states to play a face-to-face game.
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Karagin
03/04/14 10:50 PM
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I have used double blind rules, it was fun. Not a big hit with my group, but fun.
I know how easy it is to tweak files for many games, adjusting things cause you feel they need tweaking, and given that it is not a locked system then it's not 100% free of the chance to cheat.
Misplaced a rule, how does one misplace a rule, since you agree to what set of rules you are using, like you agree to what tech is in play etc...ALL before starting. Rule mishaps happen as do misunderstandings, which lead to folks tweaking things in the computer games, so are you saying Retry that folks are going misunderstand rules just to mess up the game while playing face to face?
Average game depending on the size of the force, two hours to four hours. Anything longer and we have it planned out and play when we can and keep track of things with pictures and marking of maps as where each mech etc...was. Really simple system. Then again, I don't worry so much about playing time since I am also there to meet new folks or catch up with old friends as well.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/04/14 11:00 PM
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Well, at least someone in the forums recently scoffed when I said hovercraft slipped on open ground, and could slip into forests on accident which would immobilize it.
For "many games". Yet you don't confirm it by trying it yourself.
Confirm it or leave it.
I don't play battletech to meet new people. I don't need nor want to.
I can play a 1 on 1 vs the computer in 5 minutes. 4 on 4 in 30. 3 on 3 vs. a human in 30. Three on three lances in a couple hours.
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Karagin
03/04/14 11:09 PM
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Congratulations on your ability to play via computer and not wanting to me new people.
How many rules have you forgotten Retry? Or ignored?
I have tried MegaMek, Bob Richter asked me to and I found it to be buggy and a waste of time, now that was many years ago, sure the game has gotten better, but again it's not Battletech so really not worth the worry about it. And seeing how I don't need to cheat to win or min/max to win I guess that if you have to see proof cheating to vindicate things then I guess that is how you play your games.
Again your mech here can be taken down by a decent player with any configuration of a Timber Wolf, either one from the original TRO3050 or any player picked set of weapons that match the pod space of the Omni.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/04/14 11:27 PM
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There's a lot of rules to forget, and probably many I still don't know exist.
I've been playing only about half a year ago, and have had few problems with it. It seems to follow every PDF source on the internet quite well. Very well. I've also seen positive feedback on Megamek from people other than me, so they must be getting at least most of it right.
As someone said, "It is relatively easy to modify files/cheat. It's very, very difficult to do so w/o anyone noticing."
And apparently it's impossible to cheat when using something like megamekNET, where it happens on a 3rd party host anyways.
Again, prove it boy.
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ghostrider
03/04/14 11:28 PM
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I have questions about megamek.
I have seen more then a few games were it only targets the closest unit. Taking a spider and jumping back and forth would cause the enemy to target just it. I had other units further back that were alot easier to hit, but they would never get fired on.
Another issue seems to be the ability to house an entire regiment of ba in one hex. And the fact that the computer will not even target them when there is a mech on the field.
The use of weapons and munitions seem to be out of whack as well. But then that would take actually paying attention to things like to hits for both sides.
Infantry changes makes things even worse. Some srm troops would beat alot of mechs out there in a city without even trying.
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Retry
03/04/14 11:33 PM
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The AI isn't that smart. I think there is a "princess" AI which lets you modify it's behavior.
I think it targets enemies that it can do the most damage to now.
Either way, it's best to play against a human opponent, which Megamek DOES support.
Idk what version MM you have now, but the version I have, one of the newest, it's impossible to stack BA. Minus buildings ofc.
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Karagin
03/04/14 11:33 PM
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Really Retry did you just call me "boy"? I think you might want to step back and think about your comment there.
As for cheating it will happen, it happens in the board, but it's easier to catch. And you are bring in another computer system? Wow, how many more are out there?
Feedback on a gaming forum is like feedback on eBay...your miliage will vary as to what it actually means.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/04/14 11:38 PM
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Yes, I called you boy. And you claimed that...
"and if you can't win you do all you can to hurt the other side out of spite?"
And you're complaining that I said "prove it boy"?
It's easier to catch eh? You speak as though you've played Megamek more than just a couple years ago on a buggy version.
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Karagin
03/04/14 11:42 PM
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So now you are using name calling to attack someone because they don't just agree with your designs or your theories of how things should be. Nice to see that.
Claiming that you like to win at all cost etc...is based on how you have commented and how your designs are made. You min/max things and then tell us all how we should use DHS even if the design doesn't need them, or how we should use stealth cause it better and we are wrong for not doing so. And now you have come down to base levels and started to use name calling. Great counter.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
03/04/14 11:47 PM
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You haven't had the ai fire ac 20's against a unit at a range of 9, only to have it switch to the ac 2's at a range of touch?
really got bad at times.
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Retry
03/04/14 11:52 PM
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Please, name-calling. "Boy" isn't name-calling.
And saying "you like to be an **** when you lose" when you haven't even witnessed me losing a game of battletech/megamek/whatever is practically flaming. You don't get a free pass on that, especially when you are complain about a single word of a pretty nowadays common phrase.
The thing is, you don't just say you don't want it, you say it wouldn't be useful, which IS wrong, often very wrong.
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Karagin
03/04/14 11:58 PM
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How is it flamming? I have not attacked you personally, just your designs and your whole "either it's this or you are wrong" theories about designs, the one who is pushing this into a flamming area, is you and your comment of boy.
And yes using the term boy is name calling.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/04/14 11:58 PM
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The thing with the AI is irrelevant. It's just a feature that's not necessarily perfected. Real people can still play each other on it.
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Retry
03/04/14 11:59 PM
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"and if you can't win you do all you can to hurt the other side out of spite?"
That is a personal attack Karagin.
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Karagin
03/05/14 12:00 AM
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No Retry it was a question for you to answer about your style of play and design, since your approach to things seems to fall into the area of power gamer.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
03/05/14 12:12 AM
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if you get to go to a convention, they will be able to handle all the questions there are. Granted neither of you may be happy that certain things you are used to are not available there.
It would solve any issues of wrong doing.
It would be a problem of time as well.
I was gonna be a smart ****, but don't want to have any issues with homeland security for a stupid joke.
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Karagin
03/05/14 12:19 AM
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I have no issue playing a scenario with pre-set units. That is part of the fun, at least for me. Many of the scenarios in the old scenario books are a lot of fun. My group had a blast with the Twycross scenario pack. Ran three of the scenarios from that one had some interesting outcomes.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/05/14 12:25 AM
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What that is, is a hostile remark phrased as a question.
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Karagin
03/05/14 12:36 AM
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And your using of the term boy was pure flame bait. And the question was a fair one based on your theories of design and how you keep telling us that using certain things is a must have thing. If you want to view it as hostile then hey enjoy that. But it was simple question.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/05/14 12:45 AM
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I was going to use "bro" but I remembered the other post.
And all-but-asking if I am an **** when I lose because I don't like materials easily used for improvement not being used as such is improper.
Had it been a statement there'd be a lack of foundation for it.
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Retry
03/05/14 06:01 PM
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Someone asked about terrain at some point. I'll answer as follows:The more rugged the terrain, the better the Arachnid fares.
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Cray
03/05/14 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Why would I play a computer based game that is NOT the board game? Oh wait I wouldn't since its' not the official game thus not something to worry about.
Karagin, what are the major differences between the rules encoded in MegaMek and the rules of Total Warfare?
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
03/05/14 06:06 PM
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Okay and how pray tell does it do better in rough terrain over the other battlemechs?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
03/05/14 06:07 PM
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Cray first MegaMek is NOT an official product, second see the first point, enough said on that.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/05/14 06:13 PM
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1:Quad mech. Any terrain that causes a PSR rolls, such as moving backwards over a hill(alternate rule), is easier to hit due to the quad modifier.
2:Jump Jets.
And as far as I know, there are *no* major differences between rules encoded in MM and the rules of TW. If there is, it can be reported as a bug and it will be hastily fixed as long as it's not a naval unit rule.
Edited by Retry (03/05/14 06:14 PM)
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Karagin
03/05/14 06:16 PM
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Okay following on the quad.
As for MegaMek again IT IS NOT an official CGL product so it is not something that is even worth falling back on since it's not official and thus irreverent to be used a source of rules or anything else.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/05/14 06:16 PM
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I'm not using it as a source of rules.
No one is using it as a source of rules.
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Karagin
03/05/14 06:22 PM
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Yet you keep falling back on it and harping about it, and since you have said many times it's the only way you part take in BT etc...it is NOT Battletech, Battletech is a board/table top game with miniatures and dice and sheets to mark the damage, not a computer game.
So telling us it follows the current rules or the old rules doesn't really matter since it is NOT Battletech.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/05/14 06:27 PM
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What's sad is that you can't get over your prejudice to play even one game.
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Karagin
03/05/14 06:31 PM
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I did play the game, back long time ago, and I found I would rather play face to face.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/05/14 06:32 PM
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In which case, if you and I want to play, you would have no choice.
And back a long time ago, the game has changed a lot since a long time ago, your experiences with it are outdated.
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Karagin
03/05/14 06:37 PM
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See I don't follow your not wanting to play against real people face to face. And given that it didn't impress me then, I doubt it will now.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/05/14 06:41 PM
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"I doubt"
All your theoretical statements of all my mechs and you take your own word as gospel. It must be convenient that you don't have to acknowledge you don't know and would have to try something out to know.
See, I don't follow the fact that you find it odd that I'm not willing to travel across the country to play a game of Battletech.
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Karagin
03/05/14 06:52 PM
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How far is cross country Retry? I have traveled many a times to Michigan from Texas to play BT, or to Virginia or Florida as well as Colorado.
What theoretical statements? You base your designs on a non-official computer and then you tell us that the designs we post will only work if we follow your theorems of using components to be critical hit sponges cause that works for you in a non-official computer game. When we point out that is not the case and that many folks find that to be on the same level of power gamers or munchkins you get upset and accuse myself of attacking you because I don't just take your idea and use it. Then when you tell us you don't play Battletech per-say but instead play a fan made non-official spin on the game called MegaMek and we point out that it shows in your designs you get upset as well.
And yes I don't follow why you would be unwilling to go to a gaming convention in another state with the chance to meet fellow fans of Battletech as well as the other fun things that go on at a convention. The chance to meet folks and you might find out that a few cities over there is a group who is willing to travel to play the game with you or vise versa. I guess that it's easier to sit at computer and play a game and such then it is to play against other people.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/05/14 07:02 PM
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"I doubt" is you theoretically assuming that due to past out-of-date experiences
I play battletech by the medium of MegaMek. You have a problem with it. I have a problem with traveling across the country to play a damn Battletech game. Most sane people would agree that issue trumps your prejudice against any and all things unofficial.
And I never said they wouldn't work, I said they would work better, and you said no with a very poor explanation why it would not.
I never accused you of attacking you until you "asked" whether I attacked my opponents when losing due to being butthurt.
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Karagin
03/05/14 07:11 PM
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And if you think a question is an attack well then your comment of "boy" was just as much of an attack.
I said that traveling to play the game is better then playing online. I also said it allows you to meet new people and enjoy time playing a game that you both like and could led to new friendships. Or are you against that?
And actually you did say that it would not work because no one would not use DHS if they had them vs SHS even though the mechs didn't warrant the DHS since it's heat was not an issue to start with. You went to site asinine reasons of engine hits, or hot worlds etc...as your sole justification. The only poor counter was your idea of why they need to be there on top your counter they can act as critical hit sponges again that falls into the catogery of power gamers and munchkin land, hence why I asked you if you only play to win and if failing that you go after you opponents doing as much damage to their stuff as you can just to prove your stuff can take on the other side, which some how translates into a personal attack on you, where in that question did I attack you? I asked if your theories fail once in use in the game, to your resort to melee style fighting to inflict more damage on the other side, please tell us how that translate into anything else.
And most sane people would not be so stuck on playing on line when they can play with a group people, especially at a convention where they can enjoy not only Battletech but a host of other games, find items they have been looking for, see some amazing CosPlay and meet genre legends and just have fun.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
03/05/14 07:24 PM
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But we are beating a dead horse here Retry, you won't see past your ideas as much as you say I won't so let's just move on to other things.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/05/14 07:29 PM
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"Now let me ask this Retry do you have to win at all cost when you play and if you can't win you do all you can to hurt the other side out of spite? "
That is an attack. Translations are unnecessary.
And no, I am not an **** and directly attack my adversary when I lose.
I can't play with different people. There are no groups nearby, I haven't got the time either, or the money to spend on gas. Nor do I prefer to spend one half of the game worrying about the vast amount of game rules, a quarter of the time recording results on the
That's before adding time due to using optional rules and double blind.
I've tried other tabletop games, less complex ones, and I found them to be overwhelming. No, tabletop won't be an option for me.
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Retry
03/05/14 07:33 PM
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And I won't move on because, first of all, that post I quoted offended me quite a bit, secondly, you said my Arachnid was no match for a timberwolf, and thirdly, I'd like to see you try.
But you don't, apparently.
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Karagin
03/05/14 07:34 PM
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Not everyone uses the optional rules or double blind rules, see you missed the part that before playing both side agree on what rules are being used.
And no the question was not an attack, YOUR calling me "boy" WAS an attack. There vast differences there. A question about your play style is not an attack.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
03/05/14 07:37 PM
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Try what Retry? MegaMek? I have already told you, I won't play a non-official game, and not one that can be modified by the players, regardless of your claims that it's not easily done, point is it can be done.
And yes I do believe your design can be beaten by a Timber Wolf ran by a decent player. And after explaining to you since you feel you are owed things, I am done with this current topic, it is time to move on to other designs and topics.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/05/14 07:44 PM
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The question mark is a thin veil which unraveled says something along the line of "I think you act like an **** when you lose".
Fine, let me rephrase that. "prove it". Not like you will either way, you're too stubborn to even try out the program.
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Karagin
03/05/14 07:46 PM
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You are right, I don't like to waste my time on things like MegaMek when I can play the game face to face with other people.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
03/05/14 08:25 PM
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out of date experiences are sometimes the only thing to keep you from repeating bad mistakes. More then a few people have lost their computer information to a virus they got from a website, get their system fixed, then get it again from the same website.
There are more then a few games that have viruses and trojans built directly into the game.
Utorrent had problems where even if you said don't share, it used your system as a server.
Try using the del.* in dos. It deletes command.com right off the bat, screwing your entire system up. There was alot of money made by techs because of that simple command. A couple of shareware items had that as their first line in it.
The dhs excuse is poor because the heavy mech designs don't run cold. They don't have extra heatsinks incase you are on a hot planet. Saying you care about your pilots, but yet using the compact cockpits contridicts that possibility.
Now as for not using megamek, I would say a single game might work, but make sure you record the whole thing so when you have a limb blown off critical and the limb that is gone keeps firing, then you have something to say.
I have had issues with game where I can not target an enemy, but yet he had full sight of me in a large unit, not an infantry unit. He was beside a building, while I was too.
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Retry
03/05/14 09:25 PM
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Small cockpits you mean?
Small pilots.
I rarely use standard cockpits on quads, it is a waste of a ton. And it is possible to use that ton to armor the cockpit from a critical hit. I did not in this case but you get the idea, an uncomfortable pilot is better than a dead pilot.
Also Karagin, the problem with your statement is that there is no chance for us to play face to face. Regardless you refuse to even TRY it, showing your prejudice.
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Karagin
03/05/14 09:29 PM
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Retry, I don't have prejudice, you are speculating and forcasting your ideas on to what I have said. Again I have said I will not play a non-official fan made computer game, nothing said I would not try new things, just not something like MegaMek having tried it once and found it to be less then impressive and rather dull. If I want to fight battles against an AI I will play Steel Panthers or similar games. If I want to play Battletech I will play the board game with other people.
And you do realize that your TC with the Pulse weapons on this mech are pretty pointless given that they two aren't as munchkined anymore?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/05/14 10:01 PM
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That's great, but Megamek can do human v human as well.
"nothing said I would not try new things, just not"
Just nothing. You are unwilling to try MM, a new thing, for no reason other than whining that "it's unofficial therefore irrelevant!"
This was never more apparent than when Cray himself asked you whether there was any major rule differences between MM and TW rules. Your answer was "it's unofficial". It does not answer the question at all.
Your prejudice is based on it being unofficial. Just admit it.
I know they can't take aimed shots. I don't care. I never use aimed shots except at immobile opponents. The push across the bell graph of the to-hit numbers justifies it alone.
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Karagin
03/05/14 10:10 PM
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You are right I don't like it cause it is unofficial.
They can't use the pulse bonus and the TC bonus either, it's not a -3 to anything anymore either.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/05/14 10:12 PM
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Since pulse lasers are direct fire and pulse, they gain benefits like the direct fire weapons. It is a -3.
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Retry
03/05/14 10:15 PM
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But being pulse weapons they can't aim at specific locations.
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Retry
03/05/14 10:22 PM
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TW page 143.
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Karagin
03/05/14 10:34 PM
70.118.139.48
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For your group what is the average pilot/gunnery skill?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/05/14 10:37 PM
67.239.109.174
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Irrelevant.
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Karagin
03/05/14 10:41 PM
70.118.139.48
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Yes it is Relevant. What is the average piloting and gunnery for your alternate universe group?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/05/14 10:43 PM
67.239.109.174
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3/4 clans, 4/5 IS
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Karagin
03/05/14 10:47 PM
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So they are 3 pilot and 4 gunner if I am reading it correctly.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/05/14 10:49 PM
67.239.109.174
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Yes.
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Karagin
03/05/14 10:53 PM
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So with this mech they are effectively a 1 gunner.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/05/14 10:54 PM
67.239.109.174
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With a IS pilot it's effectively a 1 gunner.
With a clan pilot a 0 gunner.
Excluding the flamer ofc.
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ghostrider
03/06/14 12:21 AM
66.27.181.33
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Let me guess they changed that in the core rule as well? Still.
I would use pulse with tc because you can target certain areas of a mech when needed.
There does seem to be little change in alot of the units retry has for his crossroads units. They all have large pulse lasers. Without clan tech, his designs tend to fall short on range. The double heatsinks would kill some of them as well because of the crits they take. I have not seen him using innersphere double heat sinks to bleed off crits in the big mechs, or the small ones either.
The used of electronics is why he has to use innnersphere tech. I would like to see designs that are not based on crossroads for normal use.
I do find some of the designs he has interesting, but I dislike the mixing of the techs so their is no downside.
I could see atn's tanks working well with retry's mechs.
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Retry
03/06/14 12:51 AM
72.214.204.166
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Pulse lasers can NOT aim at specific parts.
Yes, the three units have little change other than overall role. The salti, micro, and arachnid have 1 thing in common that lead to this:They jump. To retain accuracy while jumping they use cLPLs.
Then there is the Nephilidae that does not jump but has lower accuracy due to the VSS side effects.
I have posted the SCP 5P, the Cyclopes tank, the UM 80b, though people do not find them noteworthy. Though I do not use them myself; I tend to get em mixed with the canon scorps or urbies. For "normal" use I am content with canon designs.
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ghostrider
03/06/14 01:37 AM
66.27.181.33
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that may be a blessing in disguise. If they were being argued over, then someone has found them horrible for some reason.
Lately I seem to be the first person talking about alot of designs, and have tried to step back from it. Most of the first responces are possible things to change or make a variant with. Some are complete don't like this or that.
Some of the issue is with people not liking the drifting from the rules. They tend to look at one or two things and say it's junk.
I dislike a lot of the newer stuff as it seems to be leading to over complication and really screwing with the basics of the game. But that is just the way I feel.
For some, they love it. It gives them a chance to do things they couldn't before.
as for the skills of pilots, I thought it was gun/pilot skills so 3/4 was 3 gun and 4 pilot. Did they change that as well?
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Karagin
03/06/14 06:22 AM
70.118.139.48
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It has always been piloting skill then gunnery.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
03/06/14 07:19 AM
66.27.181.33
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The original battle tech sheets has gunnery listed first as well as the scenario book maccarons. Some of the later scenario books reversed it.
You may want to check the older sheet. It has not always been piloting/gunnery.
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Retry
03/06/14 09:21 AM
72.214.204.166
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I have only heard of it gunnery/pilot
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
03/06/14 10:00 AM
172.56.4.14
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Karagin your wrong, I suggest reading this http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Targeting_computer
The official rules state all pulse lasers can use targeting computers and add the affects. They just cant target spastic locations.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Retry
03/06/14 11:41 AM
72.214.204.166
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As I said, getting rid of the human element with memorizing all the rules prevent such mistakes in the first place.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
03/06/14 01:08 PM
172.56.23.220
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And it lets you cheat all you want.
I agree with Karagin on that playing table top is the really only way to play.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Retry
03/06/14 01:40 PM
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Those who say that haven't played it.
Or so is the trend.
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Karagin
03/06/14 05:56 PM
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I check the books Donkey, all good now. Retry who says the person programing the non-official FAN made knock off game got it right to start with?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/06/14 05:57 PM
76.7.238.202
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Are you suprised?
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ghostrider
03/06/14 06:02 PM
66.27.181.33
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I guess I should have been more direct with that one.
and who says that any official game is coded right? More then a few games seem to need updates to fix bugs that should never have been sent out like they were.
The gunnery/piloting thing seem to have changed with the coming of the clans. The scenario books after the clan invasion seems to be piloting/gunnery, while those before seem to run gunnery/piloting.
The record sheets from 3067 have gunnery above piloting, so I don't have an answer.
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Retry
03/06/14 06:13 PM
76.7.238.202
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At this point I think the problem is that he just doesn't want to play against me at all. His arguements against using my sole source of Battletech are either nonsensical or based upon "what if" scenarios which I have NEVER encountered. While my concern based on location, time, and costs is more than valid.
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ghostrider
03/06/14 06:32 PM
66.27.181.33
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They are not nonsensical. Some people are purist. I myself dislike alot of the experimental crap that is coming out.
I have not downloaded any mods for any games because I do not want them changing my setting to anything.
I have encountered problems with programs not doing as they are supposed to, and even worse, doing things that they were not supposed to. Even with windows 8, I have things accessing the internet that should not be, as well as accessing my system. IE 11 turns white when that happens, and even with updates shut off, windows is still updating as well as the antivirus and a few other things.
Your concerns about traveling are valid, but no moreso then trusing someone elses programming. And that isn't saying what other programs were added into it from other sources.
I have played on game that would stack 100 units on top of each other and move them as one. It would constantly change the top unit, so scrolling down the list was the only way to find the damaged one and try to finish it off. The game has degraded even further since this problem, but it does happen.
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Karagin
03/06/14 06:32 PM
70.118.139.48
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It not a licensed or official CGL product. Sorry but unless you are willing to play the game via the table top with all official rules and products, i.e. a mapboard (or terrain) with either the miniatures or the old school cardboard counters, each of us rolling our own dice, no dice programs, and mech sheets with the stats, a pencil to mark the sheets, then you are the one who is failing to meet the standard. You have never encountered anything because all you play is some one else's take on BT via again a non licensed fan made computer program.
As for traveling, how far are you from Texas? I am willing to travel and if things work out this year, I plan on being at GenCon. Oh wait, I forgot you think it is silly and pointless to travel to play games...guess all the folks at GenCon or Origins or really any convention be it gaming or a comic book one or a fan days kind of thing are silly for traveling to enjoy their hobbies.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/06/14 07:04 PM
76.7.238.202
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Quote:
ghostrider writes:
They are not nonsensical. Some people are purist. I myself dislike alot of the experimental crap that is coming out.
I have not downloaded any mods for any games because I do not want them changing my setting to anything.
I have encountered problems with programs not doing as they are supposed to, and even worse, doing things that they were not supposed to. Even with windows 8, I have things accessing the internet that should not be, as well as accessing my system. IE 11 turns white when that happens, and even with updates shut off, windows is still updating as well as the antivirus and a few other things.
Your concerns about traveling are valid, but no moreso then trusing someone elses programming. And that isn't saying what other programs were added into it from other sources.
I have played on game that would stack 100 units on top of each other and move them as one. It would constantly change the top unit, so scrolling down the list was the only way to find the damaged one and try to finish it off. The game has degraded even further since this problem, but it does happen.
The thing about cheating is nonsensical. If one does manage to modify the files(which they don't), it will be hard to conceal it from the other players, and if you do ID the cheater, it takes one more second to X out of the program. Lots less time than driving back home when you meet a less-than-amiable BT player
So you like 3025 tech? Great, MM can do that. You don't have to use the 3145 stuff when you don't want to. I'm training my "rookies" with 3025 tech. To start out simple is best, don't want to overwhelm them with clantech to begin with.
It is not as though Megamek is some shady source from the corners of the internet. I don't think I've seen a bad review of the program since ever. Not lingering over the internet, nor from any MM user I've ever encountered. Only bug reports, none of which have to do with memory wiping or any crap like that.
Again, the complaints have a weak base due to not even looking into the program at all whatsoever.
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Karagin
03/06/14 07:07 PM
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Did you miss the part Retry where I said I did give the game a try many years ago? I think you did in your rush to argue how great this NON-licensed, NON-official fan made computer program is.
Meanwhile your excuses as to why you can't play BT via the table top are just as weak and based on your not even being willing to try and expand your networking base and find local group of games in around your area, and a drive of an hour or two is worth it to play the game and have fun.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/06/14 07:15 PM
76.7.238.202
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Did you miss the part Karagin where you said you gave the game a try many years ago?
In a game where it's evolution has been rapid, you may as well have played a different game.
My excuses are weak? Money and time concerns are weak excuses?
Damn, I wish I had as much spare time and money as you.
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ghostrider
03/06/14 07:27 PM
66.27.181.33
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Not saying modifying the code. I have seen out of the package factory disc have viruses and errors on them. They don't test is like they should. Hell windows doesn't work like it should, and its one of the most expensive never finished products used.
The canon rules for battle tech have changed, now unless megamek has different versions of it, I don't think they cover everything.
It isn't so much 3025, I like alot of the clan stuff, but thought it was getting a little overboard. I understand trying to bring new conflicts to keep the game moving along.
I have had several long time games that were supposed to be fixed in newer versions lock or have to be restarted if you got caught in a certain spot. No way to get out of it.
You saying not wanting to play with megamek is weak because it's not official.
Let me introduce the plasma cannon from another game. NO heat, range of 1200 meters, does 4d6 points of damage for a single shot, or burst fire for 6d6 damage. It can be fired up to 5 times a round with either burst or single.
Or the paricle beam cannon. no heat, 1829 meter range, does 4d10 damage. Can be fired more then 3 times a round.
Everything is standard. There are no variants. Simple and effective. EVERYONE has it.
There is no surprise of doing no less damage because of a specific armor, or ecm someone uses.
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Retry
03/06/14 07:31 PM
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Megamek isn't a disc game...
MM has the most recent canon rules.
I don't understand your last point.
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ghostrider
03/06/14 07:41 PM
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Not having the funds or ability to travel is not weak.
Not playing because of a lack of time can be forgiven.
Saying it is not worth playing on table top is a little weak.
Granted using the pewter figures and figuring out how far your mech can move is a pain.
The normal cardboard is easiest to do. And without the plastic trees in the way, it makes it even easier.
The ability to have a computer running the game makes it that much easier.
Not wanting to trust something that is not canon is like not wanting to play with house rules.
You find out that there are things you can't do after the fact, or there are things you can do that change the whole game.
Some people want to know everything that can or can't be done before they waste the time to even try.
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ghostrider
03/06/14 07:46 PM
66.27.181.33
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I could get on megamek and try to play. Since I don't know all of the new rules, it is very possible to find out that something I do alot is no longer valid.
Infantry damage is a good one. Like alot of people that don't know it's been changed, I went with weapons designed to kill enemy tanks and mechs without the need to crit it to death.
Now that doesn't work.
If I didn't know how ecm worked, I could have all streaks on my mech. I go to fire them and find out at that moment, non of them work. How do you think I would react?
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Retry
03/06/14 07:46 PM
76.7.238.202
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Except the "unofficial" program mirrors TW quite well, so not really like house rules unless you use unofficial options built into the program.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
03/07/14 11:22 AM
172.56.38.63
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Retry you cant come up with a couple hundred for a once a year trip?
There are plenty of gaming and comic book conventions around the states where you might be able to drive to one. Share a room with three other people to keep the room cost down.
I went to a convention just this last January that was 5 days long. Granted the air flight was quite costly with having extra over sized baggage for bulky hall costumes. It cost me about $600 for the trip (not including what I chose to spend extra money on and the cost of food) that $400 was the flight with the costly baggage.
I am guessing for you the problem might be that this requires wanting to socialize with other people wail playing a game and not just playing just another first shooter computer game where what or who is controlling the enemy force is irrelevant. For people like Karagin the social aspect is as important or even more important than just playing some game. For a lot of people its not fun unless there are other people there with you having fun also.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Retry
03/07/14 12:36 PM
72.214.204.166
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I could, maybe, but I don't see the point of spending either the time or the limited money to do the same thing I could do on MM... A concept neither of you seem to grasp.
No, there are not any conventions near my area.
And my god, there is no way I will spend 600 or anywhere near that for a bloody convention.
Here's what I cannot grasp. After multiple posts of "I don't have the money, the time, I don't need the hassle I don't want to bother my friends because I know they are not interested", plus other very valid preferences that include streamlining, all you get from that is "you must have problems socializing"...
Good for Karagin. I don't care. That's not me.
Karagin, Either play me on MM or repeal your statements that this cannot even deal with a timber wolf.
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ghostrider
03/07/14 01:48 PM
66.27.181.33
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Not everyone has disposable cash of even 20 buck, much less 100 or more.
And even though Karagin has not said it straight out, there has been a couple of times he hinted he would go to the area retry is in to play. It did sound like he wanted neutral parties there to run the game.
And on a side note, the boards seems slow when they aren't going at each other.
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