Zhukov Heavy Tank(Fusion)

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Retry
03/08/14 09:10 PM
76.7.238.202

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You don't think I know that?

I duel random people in MekWars all the time, right now in fact.(The guy is taking an "extended smoke break"). The cons are tolerable in 3025 tech and in fact the tanks can often outgun and outarmor the mechs.

In the clantech era it's still tolerable, albeit more difficult to compete 1 on 1. The fact that HS are not needed for all weapons makes it easier to compete with SHS.

DHS would make tanks like the Schreck, Morrigu, and Ontos stupidly effective, more so than now.



You lose better range brackets and gain a minimum range.
ghostrider
03/08/14 11:57 PM
66.27.181.33

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upgrade to a ppc if you want range and punch. It is still useful in the city, but still have the range when not in one.

And not being a fan of the lbx, I would say it is wasted weight to use them. You could use that for more short range weaponry.
Retry
03/09/14 12:31 AM
72.214.204.166

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It is a Zhukov. So it must have it. Because Zhukov.

So with that assumption the new AC saves 2 tons.

PPC only deals 2 damage for quite worse range brackets.
Karagin
03/09/14 12:33 AM
70.118.139.48

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Where does it say in any rule book that something HAS TO HAVE X,Y or Z?
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Retry
03/09/14 12:36 AM
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I say it so hush.
Karagin
03/09/14 12:40 AM
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Wow.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Retry
03/09/14 12:42 AM
72.214.204.166

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You don't know Zhukovs then
ghostrider
03/09/14 12:43 AM
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wow. You say the Schreck doesn't need to follow the canon model, but you say this one does?

Please keep your arguments straight.
Karagin
03/09/14 12:43 AM
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It is a tank, it's not anything special and no rule says the damn thing has to have dual anything.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Retry
03/09/14 12:45 AM
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The Schreck AC model is canon.

It is a Zhukov and it shall smite thee.
CrayModerator
03/09/14 12:38 PM
71.47.122.85

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Quote:
Karagin writes:

What accuracy of the ERLL? It doesn't have anything going for it that the standard Large Laser doesn't have. You gain for 4 extra heat for 4 hexes of range...yeah not seeing that as anything major, since you don't gain any extra damage and the over all weapon system cost you 7 tons when used on a vehicle compared the normal 5 tons if you went with the LL.



Look, on vehicles I'd trade an ER LL for a PPC. I'm not a fan of the ER LL in all but tiny niche situations.

But incorrect is incorrect. What accuracy of the ER LL over the LL? At ranges 6, 7, 11, 12, 13, and 14, the ER LL has a target number 2 lower than a large laser. If you're only seeing "4 extra heat for 4 hexes range," then you're not looking at all the 6 hexes of range where the ER LL has a -2 to-hit bonus over the large laser.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Karagin
03/09/14 12:43 PM
70.118.139.48

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What minus 2 Cray? Where does it gain this pulse like actuary?
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
KamikazeJohnson
03/09/14 01:03 PM
50.72.218.68

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Quote:
Karagin writes:

What minus 2 Cray? Where does it gain this pulse like actuary?



LL Range 6 = Medium Range = +2 Range Modifier.
ERLL Range 6 = Short Range = 0 Range Modifier.

ERLL is more accurate at those ranges. That is the "accuracy" everyone has been referring to. That advantage applies at ranger 6,7, 11, 12, 13, and 14.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
Karagin
03/09/14 01:06 PM
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I don't see that as any gain advantage for the loss of two tons that could be better spent on other things vs spending it on two extra heat sinks to deal with the 4 extra heat that the ER LL puts out.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
KamikazeJohnson
03/09/14 01:10 PM
50.72.218.68

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Quote:
Karagin writes:

I don't see that as any gain advantage for the loss of two tons that could be better spent on other things vs spending it on two extra heat sinks to deal with the 4 extra heat that the ER LL puts out.



Given the other specs of the tank, I would agree that the two tons are well spent on defensive or anti-Infantry capacity, giving the standard LL compensating advantages vs the ERLL or PPC.

However, I think the ERLL has a slight edge over the PPC (for equal tonnage) in this situation, in spite of the lighter damage.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
CrayModerator
03/09/14 01:13 PM
71.47.122.85

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Quote:
Karagin writes:

What minus 2 Cray? Where does it gain this pulse like actuary?



It's from the ranges. An ER LL is still in short range (base target 4) at hexes 6 and 7 while the large laser has moved to medium range (target 6). The same applies at ranges 11, 12, 13, and 14, when the ER LL is in medium range (target 6) and the large laser is in long range (target 8). The ER LL has a -2 advantage at those ranges.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Karagin
03/09/14 01:15 PM
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I still don't see that a gain over the extra heat that the weapon puts out and the lose of two tons to it.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
KamikazeJohnson
03/09/14 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Karagin writes:

I still don't see that a gain over the extra heat that the weapon puts out and the lose of two tons to it.



The high heat has always been my biggest beef with the ERLL (and the IS ERPPC as well, really), which is why I rarely use it myself when heat is an issue. If it had a heat scale of 10, I'd probably use it a lot.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
ghostrider
03/09/14 03:13 PM
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The erll has the accuracy in the sense of extending the ranges over a normal laser or a normal ppc.
That equates to extra accuracy for several hexes where the others shift from short to medium, and medium to long.

And kj hit the nail on the head with the innersphere erll and erppc. No extra damage. It's heat and range. Maybe if they had added a point or 2 it would have covered some of that.
Retry
03/09/14 03:16 PM
76.7.238.202

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I don't find a point or two of extra damage to be absolutely essential.
KamikazeJohnson
03/09/14 03:23 PM
50.72.218.68

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Quote:
ghostrider writes:

The erll has the accuracy in the sense of extending the ranges over a normal laser or a normal ppc.
That equates to extra accuracy for several hexes where the others shift from short to medium, and medium to long.

And kj hit the nail on the head with the innersphere erll and erppc. No extra damage. It's heat and range. Maybe if they had added a point or 2 it would have covered some of that.



In Average terms, range = accuracy = damage...hitting more often means you do more damage over time.

I don't really object to no increase in dmg, but the increase in hit always felt excessive.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
KamikazeJohnson
03/10/14 06:54 PM
24.114.38.64

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Liking the tank upgrades so far. I'm to lazy to fire up my vehicle design program, so I'm waiting impatiently for the pending TX-MML.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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