Lirpas LPS-99

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Karagin
03/15/14 03:28 PM
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I know it needs some fine tuning...

Code:
                BattleMech Technical Readout

Type/Model: Lirpas LPS-99
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3132
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design

Mass: 65 tons
Chassis: 1A Type 3 Endo Steel
Power Plant: 260 Hermes XL Fusion
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type: Gods Forge Standard
Armament:
2 Cyclops XII ER Large Lasers
1 Vestige Class 5 Rotary AC/5
2 Zeus LRM 15s
Manufacturer: Vulcan Forge Armories
Location: Mars
Communications System: Tri-World Duplex 4880
Targeting & Tracking System: Ares Hard Lock 500

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Lirpas LPS-99
Mass: 65 tons

Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 104 pts Endo Steel 14 3.50
(Endo Steel Loc: 1 HD, 1 LA, 2 RA, 2 LT, 2 RT, 2 CT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
Engine: 260 XL Fusion 12 7.00
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 10 Double [20] 0 .00
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA R: Sh+UA+LA 14 .00
Armor Factor: 152 pts Standard 0 9.50

Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 21 23
Center Torso (Rear): 8
L/R Side Torso: 15 16/16
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 5/5
L/R Arm: 10 14/14
L/R Leg: 15 21/21

Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
2 ER Large Lasers RA 24 4 10.00
1 Rotary AC/5 LA 1 40 8 12.00
(Ammo Locations: 2 LA)
1 LRM 15 RT 5 24 6 10.00
(Ammo Locations: 3 LT)
1 LRM 15 LT 5 3 7.00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 40 70 65.00
Crits & Tons Left: 8 .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 12,176,451 C-Bills
Battle Value 2: 1,492 (old BV = 1,076)
Cost per BV2: 8,161.16
Weapon Value: 1,305 / 1,305 (Ratio = .87 / .87)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 24; MRDmg = 18; LRDmg = 9
BattleForce2: MP: 4, Armor/Structure: 4/3
Damage PB/M/L: 3/3/2, Overheat: 3
Class: MH; Point Value: 15
Specials: if


Thinking of dropping the LRMs down to 10 racks, adding in CASE and maybe another heat sink or some MGs.

And two cookies and a dark side point if someone can guess where the name comes from WITHOUT using Google.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
ghostrider
03/15/14 04:10 PM
66.27.181.33

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think the ammo for the rotary is a little low.
Runs a little hot with the dual erll.
but I guess that is why you need to learn not to fire everything every round..
Karagin
03/15/14 05:38 PM
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It would be nice if folks could remember that a mech doesn't need to fire everything every turn and I blame the damn MechWarrior video games for that crap and way of thinking and playing.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Retry
03/15/14 05:45 PM
76.7.238.202

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It has to fire the ERLLs on a roughly 2-1-2-1 firing pattern to avoid overheating. That's before considering the other weaponry and the possibility of infernos which would throw that off further. So in effect it has one and a half ERLLs of usable firepower.

I'd compare the firing pattern to that of a MAD-3R. It has, in effect, 1.5 PPCs despite using 2 due to the necessity of it's 2-1-2-1 firing pattern due to it's insufficient amount of heat sinks.
Karagin
03/15/14 05:55 PM
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You see Retry not everything has to alpha strike, smart players know their mechs weaknesses as well as strengthens. As for switching out the ERLL, no, they fit the picture I have of the lay out of the mech. And also given how the average player doesn't use infernos then those are NOT a threat to be worried about.

Overall it can delievery enough damage to be a threat and it can offer those needing a decent heavy mech enough bang for the buck, now if I can figure out how to get the CASE in there I would be happier with it, might be the need to down grade the LRMs to 10 racks to pull that off.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Retry
03/15/14 06:03 PM
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The issue is not that it can't alpha strike easily, it is that it can't even use it's most range-flexible weaponry(In this case the dual ERLLs, no minimum range and good long range) without worrying about heat issues.

I never said anything about removing the ERLL.

Well, when you encounter the "non-average" player who decided to exploit your heat problems with infernos, please contact me.

I would definitely downgrade the LRMs myself for more HS and ammo, and armor if necessary.
Karagin
03/15/14 06:07 PM
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It can use them, it builds up for heat, then it has THREE other weapons to chose from and use while the lasers cool down or it can snipe and move as needed. Tons of options here for the pilot to chose from Retry, not just a single set.

I encounter tons of non-average players all the time Retry, and infernos are the last thing they consider using, simply because it's a "newbie" weapon and one that lost a lot of the glory and cool factor back in the early days of the game for a lot of us. And considering how it's been "neutered" the appeal to use it is gone.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Retry
03/15/14 06:22 PM
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I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm saying it can be done quite better than it is now.

Now that I take a second look at the design, it's a bit thin for a 65 tonner.

Just because it doesn't obliterate everything to a pulp anymore doesn't mean it's a bad weapon. In the time period this mech was made in, infernos will cripple tanks to death with ease if they don't outright destroy them. Same for infantry and BA. The same strats simply don't work on most mechs, however, without house rules. Of course this mech is an exception.

Don't even get me started on the iATM improved inferno munitions...
KamikazeJohnson
03/15/14 06:29 PM
24.114.43.163

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In terms of use, very similar to the old Rifleman, where you fire one Large Laser and both ACs. With this, same thing; one Laser and either the LRMs or the RAC. To suit my own personal preference, I'd downgrade the LLs to Standard, sacrificing the improved range for the ability to fire both.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
Retry
03/15/14 06:32 PM
76.7.238.202

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Alternative Lirpas. I didn't get to address the heat issue nearly as much as I wanted because I had to thicken the armor to more reasonable amounts. Actually, there's a CASE system that on second thought may be completely pointless because that torso being lost will result in a dead mech anyways, but I guess it makes the remains salvageable. Also had an XL gyro added, but the vulnerability of this component is countered by more armor thickness. Plus there's an unallocated half ton of weight.

I suppose removing the CASE would allow the installation of yet another DHS in the other torso location.

Lirpas LPS-100
IS TW non-box set
65 tons
BV: 1,588
Cost: 12,467,510 C-bills

Movement: 4/6
Engine: 260 XL
Double Heat Sinks: 11 [22]
Gyro: XL Gyro

Internal: 104 (Endo-Steel)
Armor: 208/211
Internal Armor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 21 32
Center Torso (rear) 9
Right Torso 15 23
Right Torso (rear) 6
Left Torso 15 23
Left Torso (rear) 6
Right Arm 10 20
Left Arm 10 20
Right Leg 15 30
Left Leg 15 30

Weapons Loc Heat
LRM 10 LT 4
LRM 10 RT 4
ER Large Laser LA 12
ER Large Laser LA 12
Rotary AC/5 RA 1

Ammo Loc Shots
Rotary AC/5 Ammo RA 20
Rotary AC/5 Ammo RA 20
LRM 10 Ammo RT 12
LRM 10 Ammo RT 12
LRM 10 Ammo RT 12

Equipment Loc
CASE RT
Karagin
03/15/14 07:12 PM
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Where does it say ATMs or iATMs can use Infernos?
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Retry
03/15/14 07:18 PM
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ATMs can't use improved inferno warheads. iATMs have access to improved inferno munitions and improved magnetic pulse munitions.
Karagin
03/15/14 07:25 PM
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Which book states this Retry?
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Retry
03/15/14 07:46 PM
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Pg 101, 102 in The Wars of Reaving book have references to the iATM infernos.
Retry
03/15/14 07:50 PM
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Err, pg 201, 202, 208.
Karagin
03/15/14 08:37 PM
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OKay yeah uhmmm and since they are SPECIAL munitions both sides have to agree and oh wait AMS can shoot them down, so not seeing them used a lot, and again infernos lost a lot of the cool and wow factor back in the late 80s/early 90s for me.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Retry
03/15/14 08:45 PM
76.7.238.202

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By that arguement we could just disagree with every single equipment anyone tries to bring until we get back to 3025 times.

AMS doesn't do much, really. It just provides a -4 malus to the cluster hits table. Since streaks like the iATM are treated as rolling a 12, the new result will be an 8, with most of the missiles still hitting. Not like missile interception is unique to infernos anyways.
Karagin
03/15/14 08:52 PM
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Actually NO Retry it only applies to special items like experimental tech and certain weapons systems like iATMs and such. AMS does enough to make many folks think twice about what for and when to fire it.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Retry
03/15/14 08:59 PM
76.7.238.202

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Man, I hope you sometime soon you find someone as stubborn as you are, specifically someone who will not accept a match with you until it's only one specific way, after all, you aren't allowed to use anything unless both sides agree.
ghostrider
03/15/14 09:04 PM
66.27.181.33

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Everything does have an alpha strike. Using it is the big question.
I had figured using the lrms when you could will put you up on the scale. Now if you fired one erll with an lrm 15, then it shouldn't be an issue.

As for case, you could knock off half a ton of armor, though that would not be a great way.

One more point. I would suggest moving one of the erlls to another body part. Losing the arm will destroy your energy weapons.

If using just the erll then the heat isnt that bad. It keeps up with some mechs like warhammers and marauders. Once the enemy gets close, they would use the close range weapons and maybe add the large ones when they have a good shot. The lack of minimums for the erlls means people will tend to use them all the time. Granted the ammo dependent weapons do have a minimum.
Retry
03/15/14 09:16 PM
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I'd like to hear his opinion on my Lirpas redesign.
ghostrider
03/15/14 09:23 PM
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with half the information missing off the stat sheet, it is hard to tell somethings at a glance.

The extra heatsink does help with the heat, but as I said before, if the other weapons are used it does overload the heat dissapation.
I do question wether the ammo for the rac is enough.
Karagin
03/15/14 09:41 PM
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It is not anything I have already looked at Retry, I am now considering moving the mech up to 70 tons and seeing what I can do with it at that weight class.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Retry
03/15/14 09:44 PM
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Yeah... I planned to mess around with that, but then I decided to maximize armor with the weight saved by the downgrade to LRM10s. With all due respect there seems to be too many problems with it to addresss in a simple weapons swap.

Unless I changed to dual LRM5s on each torso... maybe I'd have something to work with then.
Karagin
03/15/14 09:44 PM
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They do have a minimum which does force one to stay at about 8 hexes or so, which isn't bad but that really makes it hard for some new players to get the understanding of not moving in to that kind of range bracket though, you need to keep this mech out a bit further and use a good combo of the lasers and then the other weapons, between the two one should be able to hurt many of the medium and some of the heavy mechs out there. But as I said I am considering going to the 70 ton weight class for this one.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
03/15/14 09:49 PM
70.118.139.48

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Code:
               BattleMech Technical Readout

Type/Model: Lirpas LPS-103
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3132
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design

Mass: 70 tons
Chassis: 1A Type 3 Endo Steel
Power Plant: 280 Hermes XL Fusion
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type: Gods Forge Standard
Armament:
2 Cyclops XII ER Large Lasers
1 Vestige Class 5 Rotary AC/5
2 Zeus LRM 15s
Manufacturer: Vulcan Forge Armories
Location: Mars
Communications System: Tri-World Duplex 4880
Targeting & Tracking System: Ares Hard Lock 500

--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Lirpas LPS-103
Mass: 70 tons

Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 107 pts Endo Steel 14 3.50
(Endo Steel Loc: 1 HD, 1 LA, 2 RA, 2 LT, 2 RT, 2 CT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
Engine: 280 XL Fusion 12 8.00
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 12 Double [24] 3 2.00
(Heat Sink Loc: 1 RT)
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA R: Sh+UA+LA 14 .00
Armor Factor: 176 pts Standard 0 11.00

Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 22 26
Center Torso (Rear): 9
L/R Side Torso: 15 18/18
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 6/6
L/R Arm: 11 18/18
L/R Leg: 15 24/24

Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
2 ER Large Lasers RA 24 4 10.00
1 Rotary AC/5 LA 1 40 8 12.00
(Ammo Locations: 2 LA)
1 LRM 15 RT 5 24 6 10.00
(Ammo Locations: 3 LT)
1 LRM 15 LT 5 3 7.00
CASE Equipment: LT 1 .50
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 40 74 70.00
Crits & Tons Left: 4 .00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 13,956,434 C-Bills
Battle Value 2: 1,575 (old BV = 1,218)
Cost per BV2: 8,861.23
Weapon Value: 1,723 / 1,723 (Ratio = 1.09 / 1.09)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 28; MRDmg = 22; LRDmg = 10
BattleForce2: MP: 4, Armor/Structure: 4/3
Damage PB/M/L: 4/3/2, Overheat: 2
Class: MH; Point Value: 16
Specials: if
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
03/15/14 09:50 PM
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A bit better on the heat issue, armor increase some what and got the CASE it needs...might be better off at the 70 weight class, now that I look at it more.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Retry
03/15/14 09:51 PM
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Much better, though heat and RAC ammo is still an issue.
Karagin
03/15/14 09:53 PM
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Let's see you build up 11 heat...IF you fire everything, wait a minute that isn't going to happen that often so no I think the heat issue is good, now the ammo comes down to how trigger happy you are going to be, do you take the chance with needing a 10 or better to hit? Or do you wait till you have 9 or better to hit? See that comes down to knowing your mechs weapons and know your own luck with the dice.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Retry
03/15/14 10:07 PM
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Where'd you get this 11 heat crap?

If standing still...

24 heat ERLL+10 heat LRM15-24 DHS=10 overheat in the long range bracket. Ouch! Not like this is an uncommon situation either. The ERLL and LRM15 share similar range brackets up until maximum long ranged brackets. When hitting a target of opportunity the last thing you want to have happen to you is serious malignant heat-induced effects hitting your mech at an inopportune moment.

24 heat ERLL+6 heat RAC/5 firing 6 shots-24 DHS=6 heat short range bracket. Admittedly not bad.

24 heat ERLL+6 heat RAC/5 firing 6 shots+10 heat LRM15-24DHS=16 overheat. You won't be in such a situation very often but the possibility is there.

+2 running in the worst case circumstance=18 overheat. That's close to maximum heat sink capacity. Now, add in inferno hits(unless you milk the advantage artificially by saying "no" to infernos) and possible terrain conditions(fire or simply very hot planets, unless you say "no" to those too) and that number just keeps skyrocketing. It'll be difficult to keep yourself under super ideal conditions to keep your mech cool enough to function well.
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