Karagin
03/15/14 03:28 PM
70.118.139.48
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I know it needs some fine tuning...
Code: BattleMech Technical Readout
Type/Model: Lirpas LPS-99
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3132
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Mass: 65 tons
Chassis: 1A Type 3 Endo Steel
Power Plant: 260 Hermes XL Fusion
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type: Gods Forge Standard
Armament:
2 Cyclops XII ER Large Lasers
1 Vestige Class 5 Rotary AC/5
2 Zeus LRM 15s
Manufacturer: Vulcan Forge Armories
Location: Mars
Communications System: Tri-World Duplex 4880
Targeting & Tracking System: Ares Hard Lock 500
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Lirpas LPS-99
Mass: 65 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 104 pts Endo Steel 14 3.50
(Endo Steel Loc: 1 HD, 1 LA, 2 RA, 2 LT, 2 RT, 2 CT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
Engine: 260 XL Fusion 12 7.00
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 10 Double [20] 0 .00
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA R: Sh+UA+LA 14 .00
Armor Factor: 152 pts Standard 0 9.50
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 21 23
Center Torso (Rear): 8
L/R Side Torso: 15 16/16
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 5/5
L/R Arm: 10 14/14
L/R Leg: 15 21/21
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
2 ER Large Lasers RA 24 4 10.00
1 Rotary AC/5 LA 1 40 8 12.00
(Ammo Locations: 2 LA)
1 LRM 15 RT 5 24 6 10.00
(Ammo Locations: 3 LT)
1 LRM 15 LT 5 3 7.00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 40 70 65.00
Crits & Tons Left: 8 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 12,176,451 C-Bills
Battle Value 2: 1,492 (old BV = 1,076)
Cost per BV2: 8,161.16
Weapon Value: 1,305 / 1,305 (Ratio = .87 / .87)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 24; MRDmg = 18; LRDmg = 9
BattleForce2: MP: 4, Armor/Structure: 4/3
Damage PB/M/L: 3/3/2, Overheat: 3
Class: MH; Point Value: 15
Specials: if
Thinking of dropping the LRMs down to 10 racks, adding in CASE and maybe another heat sink or some MGs.
And two cookies and a dark side point if someone can guess where the name comes from WITHOUT using Google.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
03/15/14 04:10 PM
66.27.181.33
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think the ammo for the rotary is a little low.
Runs a little hot with the dual erll.
but I guess that is why you need to learn not to fire everything every round..
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Karagin
03/15/14 05:38 PM
70.118.139.48
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It would be nice if folks could remember that a mech doesn't need to fire everything every turn and I blame the damn MechWarrior video games for that crap and way of thinking and playing.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/15/14 05:45 PM
76.7.238.202
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It has to fire the ERLLs on a roughly 2-1-2-1 firing pattern to avoid overheating. That's before considering the other weaponry and the possibility of infernos which would throw that off further. So in effect it has one and a half ERLLs of usable firepower.
I'd compare the firing pattern to that of a MAD-3R. It has, in effect, 1.5 PPCs despite using 2 due to the necessity of it's 2-1-2-1 firing pattern due to it's insufficient amount of heat sinks.
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Karagin
03/15/14 05:55 PM
70.118.139.48
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You see Retry not everything has to alpha strike, smart players know their mechs weaknesses as well as strengthens. As for switching out the ERLL, no, they fit the picture I have of the lay out of the mech. And also given how the average player doesn't use infernos then those are NOT a threat to be worried about.
Overall it can delievery enough damage to be a threat and it can offer those needing a decent heavy mech enough bang for the buck, now if I can figure out how to get the CASE in there I would be happier with it, might be the need to down grade the LRMs to 10 racks to pull that off.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/15/14 06:03 PM
76.7.238.202
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The issue is not that it can't alpha strike easily, it is that it can't even use it's most range-flexible weaponry(In this case the dual ERLLs, no minimum range and good long range) without worrying about heat issues.
I never said anything about removing the ERLL.
Well, when you encounter the "non-average" player who decided to exploit your heat problems with infernos, please contact me.
I would definitely downgrade the LRMs myself for more HS and ammo, and armor if necessary.
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Karagin
03/15/14 06:07 PM
70.118.139.48
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It can use them, it builds up for heat, then it has THREE other weapons to chose from and use while the lasers cool down or it can snipe and move as needed. Tons of options here for the pilot to chose from Retry, not just a single set.
I encounter tons of non-average players all the time Retry, and infernos are the last thing they consider using, simply because it's a "newbie" weapon and one that lost a lot of the glory and cool factor back in the early days of the game for a lot of us. And considering how it's been "neutered" the appeal to use it is gone.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/15/14 06:22 PM
76.7.238.202
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I'm not saying it can't be done. I'm saying it can be done quite better than it is now.
Now that I take a second look at the design, it's a bit thin for a 65 tonner.
Just because it doesn't obliterate everything to a pulp anymore doesn't mean it's a bad weapon. In the time period this mech was made in, infernos will cripple tanks to death with ease if they don't outright destroy them. Same for infantry and BA. The same strats simply don't work on most mechs, however, without house rules. Of course this mech is an exception.
Don't even get me started on the iATM improved inferno munitions...
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KamikazeJohnson
03/15/14 06:29 PM
24.114.43.163
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In terms of use, very similar to the old Rifleman, where you fire one Large Laser and both ACs. With this, same thing; one Laser and either the LRMs or the RAC. To suit my own personal preference, I'd downgrade the LLs to Standard, sacrificing the improved range for the ability to fire both.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Retry
03/15/14 06:32 PM
76.7.238.202
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Alternative Lirpas. I didn't get to address the heat issue nearly as much as I wanted because I had to thicken the armor to more reasonable amounts. Actually, there's a CASE system that on second thought may be completely pointless because that torso being lost will result in a dead mech anyways, but I guess it makes the remains salvageable. Also had an XL gyro added, but the vulnerability of this component is countered by more armor thickness. Plus there's an unallocated half ton of weight.
I suppose removing the CASE would allow the installation of yet another DHS in the other torso location.
Lirpas LPS-100
IS TW non-box set
65 tons
BV: 1,588
Cost: 12,467,510 C-bills
Movement: 4/6
Engine: 260 XL
Double Heat Sinks: 11 [22]
Gyro: XL Gyro
Internal: 104 (Endo-Steel)
Armor: 208/211
Internal Armor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 21 32
Center Torso (rear) 9
Right Torso 15 23
Right Torso (rear) 6
Left Torso 15 23
Left Torso (rear) 6
Right Arm 10 20
Left Arm 10 20
Right Leg 15 30
Left Leg 15 30
Weapons Loc Heat
LRM 10 LT 4
LRM 10 RT 4
ER Large Laser LA 12
ER Large Laser LA 12
Rotary AC/5 RA 1
Ammo Loc Shots
Rotary AC/5 Ammo RA 20
Rotary AC/5 Ammo RA 20
LRM 10 Ammo RT 12
LRM 10 Ammo RT 12
LRM 10 Ammo RT 12
Equipment Loc
CASE RT
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Karagin
03/15/14 07:12 PM
70.118.139.48
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Where does it say ATMs or iATMs can use Infernos?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/15/14 07:18 PM
76.7.238.202
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ATMs can't use improved inferno warheads. iATMs have access to improved inferno munitions and improved magnetic pulse munitions.
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Karagin
03/15/14 07:25 PM
70.118.139.48
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Which book states this Retry?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/15/14 07:46 PM
76.7.238.202
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Pg 101, 102 in The Wars of Reaving book have references to the iATM infernos.
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Retry
03/15/14 07:50 PM
76.7.238.202
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Err, pg 201, 202, 208.
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Karagin
03/15/14 08:37 PM
70.118.139.48
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OKay yeah uhmmm and since they are SPECIAL munitions both sides have to agree and oh wait AMS can shoot them down, so not seeing them used a lot, and again infernos lost a lot of the cool and wow factor back in the late 80s/early 90s for me.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/15/14 08:45 PM
76.7.238.202
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By that arguement we could just disagree with every single equipment anyone tries to bring until we get back to 3025 times.
AMS doesn't do much, really. It just provides a -4 malus to the cluster hits table. Since streaks like the iATM are treated as rolling a 12, the new result will be an 8, with most of the missiles still hitting. Not like missile interception is unique to infernos anyways.
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Karagin
03/15/14 08:52 PM
70.118.139.48
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Actually NO Retry it only applies to special items like experimental tech and certain weapons systems like iATMs and such. AMS does enough to make many folks think twice about what for and when to fire it.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/15/14 08:59 PM
76.7.238.202
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Man, I hope you sometime soon you find someone as stubborn as you are, specifically someone who will not accept a match with you until it's only one specific way, after all, you aren't allowed to use anything unless both sides agree.
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ghostrider
03/15/14 09:04 PM
66.27.181.33
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Everything does have an alpha strike. Using it is the big question.
I had figured using the lrms when you could will put you up on the scale. Now if you fired one erll with an lrm 15, then it shouldn't be an issue.
As for case, you could knock off half a ton of armor, though that would not be a great way.
One more point. I would suggest moving one of the erlls to another body part. Losing the arm will destroy your energy weapons.
If using just the erll then the heat isnt that bad. It keeps up with some mechs like warhammers and marauders. Once the enemy gets close, they would use the close range weapons and maybe add the large ones when they have a good shot. The lack of minimums for the erlls means people will tend to use them all the time. Granted the ammo dependent weapons do have a minimum.
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Retry
03/15/14 09:16 PM
76.7.238.202
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I'd like to hear his opinion on my Lirpas redesign.
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ghostrider
03/15/14 09:23 PM
66.27.181.33
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with half the information missing off the stat sheet, it is hard to tell somethings at a glance.
The extra heatsink does help with the heat, but as I said before, if the other weapons are used it does overload the heat dissapation.
I do question wether the ammo for the rac is enough.
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Karagin
03/15/14 09:41 PM
70.118.139.48
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It is not anything I have already looked at Retry, I am now considering moving the mech up to 70 tons and seeing what I can do with it at that weight class.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/15/14 09:44 PM
76.7.238.202
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Yeah... I planned to mess around with that, but then I decided to maximize armor with the weight saved by the downgrade to LRM10s. With all due respect there seems to be too many problems with it to addresss in a simple weapons swap.
Unless I changed to dual LRM5s on each torso... maybe I'd have something to work with then.
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Karagin
03/15/14 09:44 PM
70.118.139.48
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They do have a minimum which does force one to stay at about 8 hexes or so, which isn't bad but that really makes it hard for some new players to get the understanding of not moving in to that kind of range bracket though, you need to keep this mech out a bit further and use a good combo of the lasers and then the other weapons, between the two one should be able to hurt many of the medium and some of the heavy mechs out there. But as I said I am considering going to the 70 ton weight class for this one.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
03/15/14 09:49 PM
70.118.139.48
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Code: BattleMech Technical Readout
Type/Model: Lirpas LPS-103
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3132
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Mass: 70 tons
Chassis: 1A Type 3 Endo Steel
Power Plant: 280 Hermes XL Fusion
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type: Gods Forge Standard
Armament:
2 Cyclops XII ER Large Lasers
1 Vestige Class 5 Rotary AC/5
2 Zeus LRM 15s
Manufacturer: Vulcan Forge Armories
Location: Mars
Communications System: Tri-World Duplex 4880
Targeting & Tracking System: Ares Hard Lock 500
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Lirpas LPS-103
Mass: 70 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 107 pts Endo Steel 14 3.50
(Endo Steel Loc: 1 HD, 1 LA, 2 RA, 2 LT, 2 RT, 2 CT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
Engine: 280 XL Fusion 12 8.00
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 12 Double [24] 3 2.00
(Heat Sink Loc: 1 RT)
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA R: Sh+UA+LA 14 .00
Armor Factor: 176 pts Standard 0 11.00
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 22 26
Center Torso (Rear): 9
L/R Side Torso: 15 18/18
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 6/6
L/R Arm: 11 18/18
L/R Leg: 15 24/24
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
2 ER Large Lasers RA 24 4 10.00
1 Rotary AC/5 LA 1 40 8 12.00
(Ammo Locations: 2 LA)
1 LRM 15 RT 5 24 6 10.00
(Ammo Locations: 3 LT)
1 LRM 15 LT 5 3 7.00
CASE Equipment: LT 1 .50
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 40 74 70.00
Crits & Tons Left: 4 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 13,956,434 C-Bills
Battle Value 2: 1,575 (old BV = 1,218)
Cost per BV2: 8,861.23
Weapon Value: 1,723 / 1,723 (Ratio = 1.09 / 1.09)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 28; MRDmg = 22; LRDmg = 10
BattleForce2: MP: 4, Armor/Structure: 4/3
Damage PB/M/L: 4/3/2, Overheat: 2
Class: MH; Point Value: 16
Specials: if
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
03/15/14 09:50 PM
70.118.139.48
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A bit better on the heat issue, armor increase some what and got the CASE it needs...might be better off at the 70 weight class, now that I look at it more.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/15/14 09:51 PM
76.7.238.202
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Much better, though heat and RAC ammo is still an issue.
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Karagin
03/15/14 09:53 PM
70.118.139.48
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Let's see you build up 11 heat...IF you fire everything, wait a minute that isn't going to happen that often so no I think the heat issue is good, now the ammo comes down to how trigger happy you are going to be, do you take the chance with needing a 10 or better to hit? Or do you wait till you have 9 or better to hit? See that comes down to knowing your mechs weapons and know your own luck with the dice.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/15/14 10:07 PM
76.7.238.202
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Where'd you get this 11 heat crap?
If standing still...
24 heat ERLL+10 heat LRM15-24 DHS=10 overheat in the long range bracket. Ouch! Not like this is an uncommon situation either. The ERLL and LRM15 share similar range brackets up until maximum long ranged brackets. When hitting a target of opportunity the last thing you want to have happen to you is serious malignant heat-induced effects hitting your mech at an inopportune moment.
24 heat ERLL+6 heat RAC/5 firing 6 shots-24 DHS=6 heat short range bracket. Admittedly not bad.
24 heat ERLL+6 heat RAC/5 firing 6 shots+10 heat LRM15-24DHS=16 overheat. You won't be in such a situation very often but the possibility is there.
+2 running in the worst case circumstance=18 overheat. That's close to maximum heat sink capacity. Now, add in inferno hits(unless you milk the advantage artificially by saying "no" to infernos) and possible terrain conditions(fire or simply very hot planets, unless you say "no" to those too) and that number just keeps skyrocketing. It'll be difficult to keep yourself under super ideal conditions to keep your mech cool enough to function well.
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Karagin
03/15/14 10:47 PM
70.118.139.48
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24 heat for the ERLL, then you have zero heat, since the heat sinks take out 24 now IF you fire both the LRMS which is 5 heat for each, that is 10 heat and the RAC heat is 1, that makes 11, add in walking or running, and you have maybe 12. So you make some rolls avoid a few things, again all depending how luck works for you, but wait again NO one is going to go all guns blazing every turn, not a smart player. So yes the heat is fine.
Your math is WAY off Retry. The heat for each weapon is listed in the stats above do the math. Also you are not taking into account the fact that while you may have the range the chance to hit may not be there or the player MAY NOT want to fire the LRMs or the RAC that turn for what ever reason. Again humans play different then the AI you are use to.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/15/14 10:59 PM
76.7.238.202
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Are you using your RAC like a RAC or like an AC?
Add in walking or running, you WILL have at least 1 extra, with running 2 extra heat.
RACs generate 1 heat PER shot fired to a max of 6 shots and 6 heat. Same with Ultra Autocannons.
And I do play against humans. Which I have said before...
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Karagin
03/15/14 11:07 PM
70.118.139.48
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Again Retry, NOT all of the weapons are going to be fired at the same time, I am not sure you understand that statement. I don't see a normal player going full alpha every time its' their turn to fire. I see them using the mech's LRMs to harass and then snipe with the ERLLs, then use the RAC to play crit finder when needed. I don't see anyone standing there blazing away with all the weapons at all.
Those who do will not last long in this mech or any other mech.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
03/15/14 11:09 PM
66.27.181.33
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lt would be semi simple to solve. Use the ammo weapons while trying to cool down. Help do damage, while getting rid of the ammo boom items.
As for heat, that is always a problem in larger mechs. Trying to control it is the key.
Now your example can be used against they mechs you have put out as well. So unless you will have a mech with 2 dozen double heatsinks and only mgs firing, this could apply to everything.
Also minimum range will pull items out of firing. Yes that is true with my saying to use the ammo weapons while cooling down. Keeping the enemy at range of 6/7 would be ideal for all of them.
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Retry
03/15/14 11:10 PM
76.7.238.202
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I know you won't alpha every time, but even when only firing with your weapons in a range bracket(LRM+laser, laser+autocannon) it has serious, serious heat issues. Which is bad if you want to actually kill something.
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Retry
03/15/14 11:12 PM
76.7.238.202
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Err, Ghostrider, I'm interested now. Can you point out an example where one of my mechs have serious heat issues?(Though bump that thread to keep this one on topic)
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Karagin
03/15/14 11:13 PM
70.118.139.48
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It not that serious Retry, a good player will know when to NOT fire things and when to fire. Again humans won't just roll the dice cause of the range brackets, if I don't think I can pull of the die roll then I am not going to fire the weapon(s), which you would understand if you regular played the actual board game. Just because it's in range doesn't mean you have to fire, and let's see add in some woods, a hill or two, the moment of the target, yeah the odds pop up and you don't get the chance to fire three of the five weapons or even any at all.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
03/15/14 11:24 PM
66.27.181.33
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even your 100 tonners are vulnerable to the inferno/hex on fire tactics. It is one scenario that every mech faces. Even the original locust would have issues with it.
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Retry
03/15/14 11:26 PM
76.7.238.202
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I'd agree if it was a stock mech like the original Rifleman, with 10 HS and 2 AC/5s, 2 LLs. But this is a custom with unneeded heat issues.
For example, someone just got up from a prone position due to a bad PSR and didn't move enough for a to-hit mod. The terrain is somewhat open, enough that it doesn't create a to-hit mod. Your Lirpas just moved at walking speed and is at range 7. 4 base mod +1 walking makes the to-hit 5 and 7 for the AC. These odds are very good for trying an alpha strike. Say this alpha strike is the best bet you have to destroy the annoying mech in this turn, which will otherwise cause serious damage. However, even if you only fire part of your weapon systems you will likely have a net gain of heat, let alone anything close to an alpha. Even a simple firing of all your short range or long range bracket weapons, neglecting the bad bracket, will create serious heat.
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Karagin
03/15/14 11:32 PM
70.118.139.48
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Retry, I rarely min/max things, I don't build mechs to be perfect, I build them to have some issues and not to be the best of the best, because that to me is boring. I don't want to have the best, I know nothing truly works as the company who made it claims, so everything is flawed. You like to min/max things and you like to have the best of the best on your stuff.
Here is an idea, since you love MegaMek, take some of your stuff against ATNs designs and see what happens.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
03/15/14 11:33 PM
66.27.181.33
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Yes, there will be times when firing everything is worth the risk.. Dealing with it afterwards is a problem.
Most people will not fire an ammo weapon on a roll of 9+ without a good reason, like it is the only weapon they have left, or they are about to die.
Most good mechs overheat when firing everything. I would like to be able to fire every round, but that is not going to be possible. Hell one of the better canon mechs overheats a little every round without firing everything. The Awesome. 29 heat sinks, 30 heat points without moving. One time out of 5-10 you fire 2 instead of 3. Now if you hit it with hot planet, infernos and everything else, it will overheat.
If it that big of a concern, go with space assets and blow the place up from orbit, or use the hell out of tanks and ammo weapons that don't increase heat in vehicles. Turrets as well.
The larger the mech, the more it tends to have heat issues. This one could benefit from a sink or 3 more, but finding the weight to do so, might be an issue.
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Retry
03/15/14 11:41 PM
76.7.238.202
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Why would I mess around with ATN's designs? Why would you compare them to ATN's designs?
Regardless of min-maxing, the flaw is not just there, it's large.(And, I must note, if I don't want "perfect" or "min-maxed" stuff I take canon designs. They're fine in that department.
And I'd like to note you can't really truely "min-max". It's simply impossible to make a design the best at every field it can be. The best you can do is patch up obvious problems such as heat, armor, mobility. A unit can be "min maxed" and still generate some heat during an alpha strike, just not this much. Tonnage and crit spaces prevents true min maxing.
I'd like to note that the Awesome's 1 spare heat point when firing it's 3 PPCs doesn't compare to this mech's 10 spare heat points in the long range bracket.
Also, for some reason, vehicles on hot planets slow down, while mechs only gain a point of 2 of heat. So they're in fact a worse choice for hot planets.
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ghostrider
03/15/14 11:50 PM
66.27.181.33
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haven't seen the vehicles slow down, but don't have new rules.
And honestly, why not take on atn's designs. They push alot of the normal concepts. It would be interesting to see how the full cloaking units do against the super heavy concept units.
The main issue with alot of that is the battle armor. Maybe just burning the entire area would put everything on even terms.
You have already found the big issue with pulse lasers in the game. The -2 to hit, especially when combined with the targetting laser is nasty. Range is the only issue, which along with the crits of endo and such is why you had to go to the clan tech.
You have set up a nice defensive set up, with a few items I consider questionable. Wether I like them or not, your set up works for you.
With the heat issue, the best you can do is watch what you fire. Some units don't have much of a choice.
As for flaws in the canon units, think about this. When the enemy gets that unit, would you want to fight something with a few flaws in it, or would you like a mirror match?
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Retry
03/15/14 11:59 PM
76.7.238.202
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ATN's designs are all basically the same thing. A formula. They seem... bland to me.
The canon units don't just have flaws, they are glaring to the point of stupidity. The Rifleman and the Charger are examples.
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ghostrider
03/16/14 12:04 AM
66.27.181.33
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have you done a couple of mirror matches with the same units and number on both sides?
I agree the charger was a stupid design. if it was made for physical combat before axes and such, having arm mounted small lasers went beyond idiocy. They wanted people kicking. Fine. There are times when that is not smart.
The rifleman is a one of those mechs that should have been a little better designed. I like the looks of it, but the heat vs weapons was stupid. Granted it came out when the autocannon was the only one, and that is now an ac 5. It is one of those mechs you definately need to switch weapons you fire.
It is also in the weight that is hard to come up with something decent. Maybe making it all ac 5 instead of the large lasers. Or pull out the mls for heat sinks. Yes, it is a poor design.
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Retry
03/16/14 12:08 AM
76.7.238.202
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If you patched up the awful mechs you still wouldn't be left with mirror battles. Good and tolerable mechs will exist in great enough variety. The Panther and Vindicator have similar roles and yet are different enough to have different feels, nothing like a mirror match.
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ghostrider
03/16/14 12:15 AM
66.27.181.33
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do a mirror match with your updated units.
I would prefer to attack normal lance urbanmechs in the open then deal with a single atlas.
Now switch the atlas for an awesome in the open when you got a slow mech. The flaws give you a chance to make the battle interesting without making it a suicide mission. Granted when YOUR stuck in the urbanmech, you feel like it is a suicide mission.
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Retry
03/16/14 12:21 AM
76.7.238.202
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I really don't care for mirror matches.
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Karagin
03/16/14 01:06 PM
70.118.139.48
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So the 70 ton version works better. Now I need to link the fluff for these two together...any ideas?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
03/16/14 03:51 PM
66.27.181.1
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you could use the test pilots suggested a few things while in developement. Maybe the the armor around the ammo bays were weak, and the case was put in to fix the problem, while adding some extra armor fixed it, but they left the case in case.
Myabe heat caused the issue (or something else like it) and an extra heat sink was installed between it and the engine to keep it cooler.
A redesign of the interior caused the weight to be increased to accomidate the redesign.
The customer that ordered the design decided after several prototypes were built, to add in a few features, or changed a few safety parameters.
Simple flaws in thing like the internal structure or musculators could have been a problem.
Here's a good one. They got a bad batch of the 260xl engines, had issues, and decided the engine was reliable enough to use, so the went with the higher weight, not knowing that batch was screwed up.
and one last one for now. Bigger is always better.
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Retry
03/16/14 04:59 PM
76.7.238.202
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What ghostrider said. Still, it could use some serious improvements.
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Karagin
03/16/14 05:00 PM
70.118.139.48
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Retry, it works well enough, again, I am not going to min/max the mech, if you want to do that feel free to make your own version fair enough?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
03/16/14 05:03 PM
70.118.139.48
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Ghostrider, good suggestions, might use all of them and go from there. Thanks for the input.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/16/14 05:03 PM
76.7.238.202
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Simply admitting that it has the problems by design instead of counterarguing that they aren't really problems despite the fact you included the problems by design would be good enough.
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Karagin
03/16/14 05:24 PM
70.118.139.48
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As you said they were there from the start, didn't hide that, and in fact pointed out some of them, the idea was not to go for a perfect mech Retry, but to go with one that was not bland or min/maxed.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
03/16/14 06:32 PM
66.27.181.1
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maybe I can learn to spell and type one of these days.
If you really want to sell it, use a minor noble, decently known or local warrior hero, or even a member of the design teams family as the test pilot and have an ammo explosion/overheat cause a problem and kill the pilot.
could use this with the redesign, since the ammo has to go by the engine to reach the other torso.
heres an odd one. The manufacturer of the 260 xl was charging an outrageous fee for the engine, and they decided to bump up the weight for a more profitable design.
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