Retry
03/30/14 02:06 PM
76.7.236.208
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A Free Worlds League field modification, this was an attempt to remove the PPC for the use of mechs while keeping the Manticore effective. Due to the FWL's surplus in lasers, the normal PPC was swapped for a LL. With lots of saved tonnage, the LRM was upgraded to a 15, it's ammo was doubled, and an extra ton of armor was added.
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Manticore Heavy Tank Free Worlds League
IS Introductory Box Set
60 tons
BV: 1,054
Cost: 2,658,400 C-bills
Source: Free Worlds League
Movement: 4/6 (Tracked)
Engine: 240
Internal: 30
Armor: 192
Internal Armor
Front 6 47
Right 6 36
Left 6 36
Rear 6 26
Turret 6 47
Weapons Loc Heat
Medium Laser FR 3
SRM 6 TU 4
Large Laser TU 8
LRM 15 TU 5
Ammo Loc Shots
SRM 6 Ammo BD 15
LRM 15 Ammo BD 8
LRM 15 Ammo BD 8
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ghostrider
03/30/14 03:43 PM
66.27.181.1
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I know the fwl is hurting for ppcs, but I hate seeing the term upgrade when a ppc is swapped out for a laser. Just my opinion.
It does remove a couple of heat sinks needed for the tank. and the extra ammo with a larger launcher is nice.
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Retry
03/30/14 03:44 PM
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I didn't want to call it a downgrade either, as it wasn't quite that.
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Karagin
03/30/14 07:32 PM
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As with the others where are heat sinks? You are not showing them, so given that how is this vehicle paying for the 11 heat it builds up?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/30/14 07:34 PM
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It's been accounted for.
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Karagin
03/30/14 07:36 PM
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Where? It is not listed, thus it is not a correct or legal design. One can say anything is accounted for.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/30/14 07:46 PM
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It's accounted for in the tonnage. Plug the numbers in yourself on your own designer if you don't believe me.
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Karagin
03/30/14 07:50 PM
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I don't believe you, since they are not shown.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/30/14 07:55 PM
76.7.236.208
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Plug the numbers in yourself on your own designer if you don't believe me.
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Karagin
03/30/14 08:42 PM
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Fusion or ICE?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
03/30/14 08:46 PM
70.118.139.48
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Also your armor is off.
Code: BattleTech Vehicle Technical Readout
VALIDATED
Type/Model: Manticore FWL
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3060
Config: Tracked Vehicle
Rules: Level 3, Standard design
Mass: 60 tons
Power Plant: 240 Pitban Fusion
Cruise Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Armor Type: Standard
Armament:
1 Large Laser
1 Medium Laser
1 LRM 15
1 SRM 6
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Manticore FWL
Mass: 60 tons
Equipment: Items Mass
Int. Struct.: 30 pts Standard 0 6.00
Engine: 240 Fusion 0 11.50
Shielding & Transmission Equipment: 0 6.00
Cruise MP: 4
Flank MP: 6
Heat Sinks: 11 Single 0 1.00
Cockpit & Controls: 0 3.00
Crew: 4 Members 0 .00
Turret Equipment: 0 2.00
Armor Factor: 184 pts Standard 0 11.50
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Front: 6 55
Left / Right Sides: 6 37/37
Rear: 6 24
Turret: 6 31
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Items Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Large Laser Turret 8 1 5.00
1 Medium Laser Turret 3 1 1.00
1 LRM 15 Turret 0 16 2 9.00
1 SRM 6 Turret 0 15 2 4.00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 11 6 60.00
Items & Tons Left: 11 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 2,654,400 C-Bills
Battle Value 2: 1,033 (old BV = 645)
Cost per BV: 2,569.6
Weapon Value: 866 / 866 (Ratio = .84 / .84)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 22; MRDmg = 13; LRDmg = 4
BattleForce2: MP: 4T, Armor/Structure: 0 / 7
Damage PB/M/L: 3/3/1, Overheat: 0
Class: GH; Point Value: 10
Specials: if
All of the stats entered as you posted them, noting here that your armor as listed in your posting is not correct.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/30/14 08:52 PM
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There's supposed to be 12 tons of armor.
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Karagin
03/30/14 09:01 PM
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Sorry but I input YOUR stats and they are incorrect as you POSTED them to start with.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/30/14 09:06 PM
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Clearly you haven't put in my stats. Your armor isn't even allocated like mine is.
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Karagin
03/30/14 09:11 PM
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I took what you posted. The tonnage is there, per the rules, which your posting clearly was in volition of. I can adjust the armor, the problem is it's NOT going to grow or gain the .5 ton you claim it needs to get 12 tons, which legally it can't have.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/30/14 09:13 PM
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Oh, I see where you screwed up.
You put the ML in the turret.
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Retry
03/30/14 09:32 PM
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So what was that about entering the stats exactly as I posted them?
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Karagin
03/30/14 09:36 PM
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Sorry given the crappy lay out and the omitting of heat sinks and other information it's hard to read the piss-poor stats. I entered what I could translate out of the stuff you posted incomplete as it is, so if there was an error it was due to poor format you are using to provide the data.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/30/14 09:37 PM
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The error you made was due to poor reading, as the ML is very clearly mounted on the front.
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Karagin
03/30/14 09:37 PM
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And what happen your point of all the weapons should be in the turret to give maximum firepower etc...?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
03/30/14 09:39 PM
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The error comes from the crappy format you are using when you post the incomplete stats.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/30/14 09:43 PM
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The ML isn't on the turret because the original Manticore's ML wasn't on the turret.
Other people who would have read the post(Or anyone who's used a manticore) would have realized that ML was mounted frontwards. The error came from you.
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Karagin
03/30/14 09:47 PM
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Retry the error comes from the stats as you posted them, nothing is lined up, thus making it hard to read and given that certain items are missing makes the posting incomplete, which coming from you I find hard to believe that you would post something that is incomplete and thus not up to the rules that you claim to know so well.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/30/14 09:52 PM
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Even then it's not cryptic or hard to read whatsoever.
Hence the error came from you
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Karagin
03/30/14 10:11 PM
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It is not my error, the error comes from the crappy format rendering it hard to read. How about you use the CODE formating which would like things up in columns which makes it easier to read.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/30/14 10:12 PM
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The CODE format looks like crap. Quit trying to shift the blame. It's your own mistake.
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Karagin
03/30/14 10:19 PM
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I am not shifting blame since the blame lyes with you and your faulty design program, which leave out the heat sinks and other components and doesn't post well. As for the CODE format looking like crap it looks a lot better then jumbled mess you have posted.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/30/14 10:21 PM
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The data was there and you didn't use it. It's your mistake.
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ghostrider
03/31/14 02:44 AM
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You mean you don't use fractal accounting?
Have .1 in turret and .4 tons on armor?
It is difficult to follow the designs as the layout you are using, retry. Alot of things you take as given knowledge isn't for some of us.
Unless stated otherwise, most people assume engines for tanks are ice, not fusion.
Very few would think an ice would be in a mech, so they assume it is fusion.
Not showing the controls or other equipment makes some of us think it was not added into the unit, and having to figure out the weight every time a unit is put up gets old.
And karagin, as much as I dislike retry's program, the misplacement of the laser is on you. Unless he edited it, it does say FR.
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Karagin
03/31/14 06:32 AM
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I didn't see the FR part Ghostrider, so maybe if he would do something to clean up the jumbled mess I would have seen it.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
03/31/14 09:16 AM
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It's your mistake and yours alone.
You can either trust what I have put up is correct, or don't believe me and try the same specs in your own designer(Correctly, not like Karagin did). I can nearly guarantee everything will work out.
And no, I won't buy or get another designer solely for use in these forums when this one works well enough.
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ghostrider
03/31/14 06:20 PM
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I know. You have to reread it a few times to try and figure anything out.
More then a few times I had to really look to see if something is there. Without all the info, the ability to trust it is done properly is not there.
As for the actual tank, it is usable, though I still like the ppc. I guess the designers had to do something to hold back the fwl. Still wierd that they are the only ones that made the awesome in 3025.
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