Miraxis
04/19/14 06:29 PM
166.137.101.173
|
I have been trying to design a front line, Sphere, heavy mech, working with in limited parameters.
limitations are as follows.
The only ammo dependent that can be used are LRMs SRMs (streak and standard), Light Gauss, Ultra AC/20 and machine guns.
Must have at least some energy weapons.
Must be jump capable.
Survivability is a high priority.
Cost is a factor, but not a be all, end all.
Omnimechs are acceptable but not preferred.
anyone who thinks they can fill this need please feel free to submit a design. The winner will get my undying gratitude.
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KamikazeJohnson
04/19/14 06:33 PM
24.114.41.48
|
A Design Challenge! Sweet!
You'll have my submission shortly 
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Rotwang
04/19/14 07:42 PM
81.165.120.251
|
Spadassin
Mass: 70 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Experimental Tech
Era: Dark Ages
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-F-A
Production Year: 3132
Cost: 7.388.398 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1.874
Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 280 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 43,2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64,8 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor: Unknown Light Ferro-Fibrous
Armament:
1 ER PPC
1 LRM-20 w/ Artemis IV FCS
1 Streak SRM-4
1 ER Small Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 107 points 3,50
Internal Locations: 1 HD, 1 LT, 5 RT, 5 LA, 2 RA
Engine: Fusion Engine 280 16,00
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 4 Standard
Jump Jet Locations: 2 LL, 2 RL 4,00
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 11(22) 1,00
Gyro: Standard 3,00
Cockpit: Standard 3,00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor: Light Ferro-Fibrous AV - 186 11,00
Armor Locations: 4 RT, 3 LA
CASE II Locations: 1 LT 1,00
Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 22 28
Center Torso (rear) 7
L/R Torso 15 24
L/R Torso (rear) 6
L/R Arm 11 18
L/R Leg 15 23
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER PPC RA 15 3 7,00
A.E.S. RA - 3 2,00
LRM-20 LT 6 5 10,00
Artemis IV FCS LT - 1 1,00
Streak SRM-4 CT 3 1 3,00
ER Small Laser CT 2 1 0,50
@LRM-20 (Artemis) (18) LT - 3 3,00
@Streak SRM-4 (25) LT - 1 1,00
Free Critical Slots: 3
BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 6 Points: 19
4j 3 4 3 0 3 0 Structure: 6
Special Abilities: CASEII, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA, IF 1
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KamikazeJohnson
04/19/14 07:44 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Are you allowing Experimental Tech, or limiting it to Tournament Legal?
Particular Tonnage or Speed? A certain Cost range you have in mind?
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
04/19/14 07:47 PM
172.56.38.249
|
Hunter
Equipment Mass 75
Internal Structure: -Endo Steel 3.75t
Engine: 300
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 4
Heat Sinks: 10 (20) Double
Gyro: 1.5 XL
Cockpit: 3
Armor Factor: Standard 231 14.5t
Internal Armor/Armor
Head 3/9
Center Torso 23/35
Center Torso(rear) -/11
R/L Torso 16/25
R/L Torso(rear) -7
R/L Arm 12/24
R/L Leg 16/32
Weapons and Ammo Location Critical Tonnage
Light Gauss rifle LA 5 12
Targeting Computer LGR LA 3 3
LGR ammo (16) LT 1 1
3 Medium Lasers LT 3 3
4 Medium Lasers RT 4 4
Extended Range Large Laser RA 2 5
Cost 8,499,750
I would have given it an XL engine but you said cost is a factor
The mech is built around its Light Gauss Rifle as such the weapon was given a targeting computer to increase its effectiveness.
An Extended Range Large Laser was installed to help when the light gauss rifle ammo was getting low and a long range weapon was needed .
To insure that it was not under armed if things got close and personal seven Medium Lasers where added to the mech.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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ghostrider
04/19/14 08:37 PM
24.30.142.80
|
heavy mechs are 60 to 75 tons.
Miraxis. Have you looked at some of the mechs already posted? Some of the upgrades kj has posted might be what you are looking for. You could modify some a little and get your mech. Even the mediums could potentially be upgraded some.
One suggestion if you like the ultra 20 would be bump up the wieght of the ac loving hunchback IIC. That would give you some more ammo, plus allow other weapons on it.
Nice thing about the clan weapons ultra 20 and the gauss riffle is they are the same weight. atleast the initial clan invasion. I do not have the rules for anything after that.
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Karagin
04/19/14 09:17 PM
70.118.139.48
|
Ghostride the Inner Sphere has UAC20s now as well.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
04/19/14 11:25 PM
24.30.142.80
|
I know they do, but the weight is different between it and the innersphere gauss rifle.
It requires a little more work, but then I didn't pay attention to sphere design. Still it could be a base for one.
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Miraxis
04/20/14 08:47 AM
166.137.101.155
|
I would like to avoid experimental tech as it should serve as a front line, mass produced unit.
anything in the heavy class is fine.
speed can be anything. Too slow and it won't be useful, too fast and it will be under gunned. So it would have to be balanced well.
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Miraxis
04/20/14 09:09 AM
166.137.101.171
|
A little back story.
I have a long running campaign that started around the Clan invasion. I held to the cannon timeline from then until the start of the FedCom civil war. I lead a 13 planet confederation carved from the Chaos March. We have recently a good level of financial and production independence.
I have mechs in every class I need, save for a front line heavy that I'm happy with.
the restriction on ammo dependant weapons is for logistical reasons. If I only have to keep 5 types of ammo in stock it makes thing much easier from that standpoint.
most all of my units are jump capable. Allowing for whole units, no matter the size, to cross restricted terrain on there way to an objective without having to reorganize.
as an aside my computer is having issues rite now, once I get them fixed I will be sharing a number of my designs with you all.
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KamikazeJohnson
04/20/14 11:25 AM
50.72.218.68
|
Because a T-Bolt is always the answer...
Thunderbolt TDR-9J
Mass: 65 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Clan Invasion
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E-A
Production Year: 3070
Cost: 6,581,960 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,695
Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 260 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor: Unknown Light Ferro-Fibrous w/ CASE
Armament:
1 LRM-15 w/ Artemis IV FCS
1 ER Large Laser
1 Streak SRM-6
3 Medium Lasers
2 Machine Guns
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 104 points 3.50
Internal Locations: 1 HD, 2 LT, 2 RT, 3 LA, 2 RA, 2 LL, 2 RL
Engine: Fusion Engine 260 13.50
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 4 Standard
Jump Jet Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT 4.00
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 10(20) 0.00
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor: Light Ferro-Fibrous AV - 203 12.00
Armor Locations: 2 LT, 1 RT, 2 LA, 2 RA
CASE Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT 1.00
Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 21 30
Center Torso (rear) 10
L/R Torso 15 24
L/R Torso (rear) 6
L/R Arm 10 20
L/R Leg 15 27
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ER Large Laser RA 12 2 5.00
2 Machine Guns LA 0 2 1.00
LRM-15 RT 5 3 7.00
Artemis IV FCS RT - 1 1.00
3 Medium Lasers LT 9 3 3.00
Streak SRM-6 CT 4 2 4.50
@MG (1/2) (100) LA - 1 0.50
@LRM-15 (16) RT - 2 2.00
@Streak SRM-6 (15) LT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 3
BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 7 Points: 17
4j 3 4 2 0 3 1 Structure: 5
Special Abilities: CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA, IF 1
I made a few attempts to meet your criteria, and each time, I'd start tweaking the configuration, and each tweak made it look more and more like a Thunderbolt. So...I figured I'd just go with it.
The original Thunderbolt meets all your criteria except for the Jump Jets, so the upgrade was pretty straight forward. If you don't want the advanced Light FF Armour because of field repair difficulty, I'd suggest switching to Standard armour and downsizing the Streak SRM to a 4-pack.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Retry
04/20/14 09:13 PM
76.7.236.208
|
Very few IS designs of similar weight can take the following out reliably at long ranges.
A capellan design, this Thundercloud uses some advanced technologies to make a supply-free ammoless mech. Two ERPPCs provide adequate firepower at more-than-adequate ranges, with stealth armor to nullify counterbarrages from other line meches from far off.(And yes, I believe the stealth armor is considered standard tech and is able to be mass produced.) GECM, which is necessary for use with the stealth armor, nullifies some electronics such as Artemis(and Narc?) as well.
The lack of endo-steel is arguably another advantage as production isn't tied to orbital endo-steel facilities in space, allowing the factories to be used in other areas, and not harming production if lost.
Thundercloud Mk.I Front Line Mech
IS TW non-box set
75 tons
BV: 1,892
Cost: 8,438,500 C-bills
Source: Capellan Confederation Export Model
Movement: 4/6/3
Engine: 300
Double Heat Sinks: 20 [40]
Gyro: Standard Gyro
Internal: 114
Armor: 224/231 (Stealth)
Internal Armor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 23 34
Center Torso (rear) 11
Right Torso 16 24
Right Torso (rear) 7
Left Torso 16 24
Left Torso (rear) 7
Right Arm 12 23
Left Arm 12 23
Right Leg 16 31
Left Leg 16 31
Weapons Loc Heat
ER PPC LT 15
ER PPC RT 15
Equipment Loc
Stealth All Applicable Locations
Guardian ECM Suite CT
Edited by Retry (04/20/14 09:13 PM)
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LegatusDavoke
04/20/14 11:40 PM
99.101.200.202
|
I submit this humble Orion, knowing full well these other guys are way better IS Puretechers than I am.
Scarabus Armaments Incorporated decided to use their typical excuse of "we design random mechs simply because we have nothing better to do" yet again. Arm mounted Light Gauss Rifles provide the "Slapper" with an impressive range, while 3 tons of ammo feed these weapons long after your lasers have burned out their focusing lenses. A quartet of highly accurate medium pulse lasers replace the typical autocannon, allowing the Slapper to brutalize hostiles up close. Jumpjets allow the mech to operate in mountainous or urban terrain with relative ease, and it is equally at home in a city as on the plains. A single ER Small Laser protects the rear arc, just in case.
Orion Scarabus Inc. 'Slapper'
Mass: 75 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Dark Ages
Tech Rating/Era Availability: E/X-X-E-A
Production Year: 3130
Cost: 15,377,688 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,616
Chassis: Unknown Endo-Steel
Power Plant: Unknown 300 Fusion XL Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: 4
Jump Capacity: 120 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor w/ CASE
Armament:
2 Light Gauss Rifles
4 Medium Pulse Lasers
1 ER Small Laser
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Endo-Steel 114 points 4.00
Internal Locations: 3 LT, 3 RT, 4 LA, 4 RA
Engine: XL Fusion Engine 300 9.50
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 4
Heat Sinks: Double Heat Sink 11(22) 1.00
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA R: SH+UA+LA
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 231 14.50
CASE Locations: 1 LT 0.50
Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 23 35
Center Torso (rear) 11
L/R Torso 16 24
L/R Torso (rear) 8
L/R Arm 12 24
L/R Leg 16 32
================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Light Gauss Rifle RA 1 5 12.00
Light Gauss Rifle LA 1 5 12.00
4 Medium Pulse Lasers RT 16 4 8.00
(R) ER Small Laser LT 2 1 0.50
@Light Gauss Rifle (32) CT - 2 2.00
@Light Gauss Rifle (16) HD - 1 1.00
4 Jumpjets LL(2), RL(2) 4 4.00
Free Critical Slots: 6
BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 8 Points: 16
4 5 6 2 0 3 0 Structure: 3
Special Abilities: CASE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA
There'll be the devil to pay mate. Better make it good, eh?
Edited by LegatusDavoke (04/20/14 11:50 PM)
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Retry
04/20/14 11:45 PM
76.7.236.208
|
Legatus, the original parameters need to include jump jets.
Try losing the SRM6 for the Jump Jets.
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LegatusDavoke
04/20/14 11:46 PM
99.101.200.202
|
<.<
I totally missed that...hehe...brb with an edit
There'll be the devil to pay mate. Better make it good, eh?
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ghostrider
04/21/14 01:56 AM
24.30.142.80
|
maybe use er lasers as the back ups. Better range.
I know the pulse are better for hitting. The weight savings could give you back the srms..
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ghostrider
04/21/14 02:01 AM
24.30.142.80
|
didn't think of it until after posting, but you could have used lrms as well. better long range fire.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
04/21/14 11:20 AM
172.56.7.118
|
Retry you do know if you get away from standard armor your going to need a big supply of the stuff you are using which stealth armor is not easy to come by even for the big boys in the war to control the entire inner sphere.
No supply of replacement armor no mech.
That is why I don't like using anything other than standard armor when I an designing IS mechs.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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ghostrider
04/21/14 11:33 AM
24.30.142.80
|
you forget donkey. His kingdom, for a lack of a better term at this point, produces all the armor, endo steel, and everything else he could ever want or desire without any issues to the amount of resources or people it takes.
Honestly the same could be said for the endo steel kj uses, but then that is for the entire innersphere, not some little system.
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Karagin
04/21/14 01:50 PM
70.118.139.48
|
Sounds a lot like the WoB...they can build all the compents or steal all the needed items...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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LegatusDavoke
04/21/14 02:23 PM
198.62.219.6
|
I personally prefer pulse to ER lasers in general for the small and medium classes. The particular reason on this mech is my biggest pet peeve of not being able to dissipate all of an Alpha strikes heat in one turn. I'd rather take the shorter range(which matches up roughly with LGauss minimums), than the higher heat. But that's just me.
There'll be the devil to pay mate. Better make it good, eh?
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Retry
04/21/14 03:18 PM
72.214.204.166
|
It's not my alternate timeline faction mech, it's a capellan export model of a plausible mech...
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ghostrider
04/21/14 07:39 PM
24.30.142.80
|
The alpha strike. People just love to use that as often as they can. I would think a few less heatsinks in some mechs and a few more weapons designed for other ranges might be a better unit.
The strike should be a last resort, not the opening salvo. Maybe omega strike would be a better term.
As you said you tend to keep the heat with you from one.
I know. I try to use it myself alot.
And retry it is not just this particular mechs.
Using the armors means you are probably going to have to bring alot with you, since the enemy probably won't have any in store.
Now if it is the only armor you use, it will not be rare, but it does make you very vulnerable to strikes on the factories that make it.
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Retry
04/21/14 08:06 PM
76.7.236.208
|
It's not much more different than bringing multiple types of weapons, or ammo weapons in general. Or different models of anything.
Additionally, as stealth armor is standard armor with ECM baffles and such, a switch to standard should be a relatively painless field job when armor is too damaged to use effectively. Either way, replacing armor isn't nearly as big a problem as replacing a damage endo-steel structure that has to be made in space. IIRC endo-steel is even fluffed as harder to repair than standard structure, though that doesn't stop anyone for using it on everything even when ferro-fibrous is available.
(Do you want to know what is easier to strike a factory planetside? Striking a floating factory in space around a planet. Incidentally, Endo-Steel must be created in a zero-G environment.)
Edited by Retry (04/21/14 08:19 PM)
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ghostrider
04/21/14 08:16 PM
24.30.142.80
|
Both are made in space. The alloys that are made separate in gravity.
Which would logically mean it is hard to fix, since I doubt the metals used in it would melt at the same temperature, and would seperate as it was being fixed.
But I do agree that both are supposed to be rare still.
Didn't read that much with the stealth armor.
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Retry
04/21/14 08:35 PM
76.7.236.208
|
Both made in space? I don't believe standard structure is... citation?
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ghostrider
04/21/14 08:36 PM
24.30.142.80
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standard structure is not. Ferrous fiber is.
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Retry
04/21/14 08:41 PM
76.7.236.208
|
Oh, ferrous fiber is?
Well, that makes the FF over ES argument moot. Though it opens up another; it should be easier to mass-produce stealth armor than ferro-fibrous armor if you so chose, since you don't have to make stealth armor in space.
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ghostrider
04/21/14 09:12 PM
24.30.142.80
|
actually, I am wrong. Just check the 2750 tro and it does not say ferrous fiber is made it space. It is made like carbon fiber.
A apologize for this mistake.
I thought the section they are under said they were made in space, but it is only the endo steel that is.
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KamikazeJohnson
04/21/14 09:14 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
Retry writes:
Oh, ferrous fiber is?
Well, that makes the FF over ES argument moot. Though it opens up another; it should be easier to mass-produce stealth armor than ferro-fibrous armor if you so chose, since you don't have to make stealth armor in space.
Anyone want to suggest a name for the logical fallacy of using "realism" in a discussion of BT tech? Because here I go using it...
A society with the capacity to build Dropships and Orbital Defense Stations easily has the capability to build orbital Zero-G manufacturing stations. Make ES as difficult to produce as you like, an industrialized planet (such as one that can support a Battlemech factory) should have no trouble with an oytput of "thousands of tons" per year. As far as defending it? First, it has to be found amid the thousands of other orbital objects; second, such a critical manufacturing facility would logically be located in the midst of a cluster of orbital defence stations in a heavily fortified system. There should be no problem for a House military to get enough Endo Steel (or Ferro Fibrous armour) for whatever they're building/repairing that uses it. Although cost could be an issue. I'd actually suggest raising the price of ES considerably, and lowering the cost of XL Engines.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Retry
04/21/14 09:14 PM
76.7.236.208
|
Well... both arguments remain valid then.
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ghostrider
04/21/14 09:23 PM
24.30.142.80
|
The issues with endo steel could be alot more then just heat, mix, pour, cool.
Getting the ores to the facility and removing them might be issues, especially if they have little room for stockpiles. Another would be fuel and heating though fusion engines could help here.
It may require the units being made have a long cool down time to make sure they units do not seperate, or may need a flash freeze to do the same.
Special ingrediants may be required for it as well.
They protection of the stations is a must as well, and that also includes commandos on space suits.
Now if you need workers to make it, you have to have regular air as well as a few other commodities. Restroom and food being 2 biggies.
I agree with not just xl engines being a little expensive but all of them. ICE should be drastically lower, and we will leave out lighter. Normal fusion engines should be less costly, because any smart move would be to have more factories putting out what is normally used. The governements would only allow so much monopoly if it threatened their taxes. More factories, more units can be made at a time.
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KamikazeJohnson
04/21/14 09:39 PM
50.72.218.68
|
Quote:
ghostrider writes:
The alpha strike. People just love to use that as often as they can. I would think a few less heatsinks in some mechs and a few more weapons designed for other ranges might be a better unit.
The strike should be a last resort, not the opening salvo. Maybe omega strike would be a better term.
As you said you tend to keep the heat with you from one.
I know. I try to use it myself alot.
Back before DHS, heat balance was a different story...especially when PPCs were in use, it was usually highly inefficient to have enough Heat Sinks to cover both long and short-range fire. Unless a 'Mech was a specialist (Grasshopper comes to mind) you would typically have a choice of weapon combinations to choose from, based on range brackets, ammo use, hit probability, and heat. Or, in a desperate gamble, you could fire off everything, creating a heay spike of 6-14 points, sometimes more, in the hope that you'd do enough damage in one turn to cripple an enemy. In some cases, you'd have 2-3 times your sustainable firepower in that one turn, at thr risk of shutdown or worse.
DHS make a big difference, as most 'Mechs below 60 tons can fit all their firepower into the default 20 heat dissipation. Even heavier 'Mechs can often use their full firepower with minimal heat buildip, still without adding additional DHS. But if a design features high-heat Primary weapons (like dual ERPPCs, you can still find yourself in a position similar to 3025-era heavies: mounting enough DHS to power your Primaries leaves you with limites tonnage and crit space to also power your Secondaries. So (IMHO), unless a 'Mech is designed to fight only at one range, you're usually best off to have two "sets" of weapons, and enough DHS to power one or the other. Generally gives you more effective firepower at any range, fallback weapons if you lose an arm, for example. Plus you have the ability, if your back is against the wall, to double your damage for a turn and pray you survive.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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ghostrider
04/21/14 09:45 PM
24.30.142.80
|
made a 100 tonner that had dual 20s with dual ppcs. The ammo you carry takes out you mech if it goes off. Yeah. I know the dangers of high heat.
Upgraded it with clan tech to ultra 20's. Still pushing heat without using both as once, though the ultra fire rate was the issue with just the 20's.
Still people try to cover the heat and in some cases it would be better to volley fire an have some options. The tsm carrying mechs come to mind here. A few could use streaks in close range to help deal with the heat. I have yet to have them lock more then 2 rounds in a row.
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Retry
04/21/14 09:55 PM
76.7.236.208
|
Alpha strikes make little sense with some weapon combinations. For example, medium lasers and LRMs. They cover their own range brackets well, but neither can fire very well into the other's brackets well. The Catapults pull this off well. After out of LRM ammo, the Catapult has enough foward firing lasers to make a good energy boat later in the game when most of the skirmishers are gone.
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Karagin
04/21/14 10:04 PM
70.118.139.48
|
Alpha strikes only make sense in the computer games not the board game.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
04/21/14 10:06 PM
76.7.236.208
|
That's a bit generalized.
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ghostrider
04/21/14 10:06 PM
24.30.142.80
|
well there are a few mechs that it makes sense.
The longbow having nothing but lrms.
The jenner is another one.
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Karagin
04/21/14 10:18 PM
70.118.139.48
|
No it's not generalized. No one was building munchkin alpha mechs in mass until the computer games took off in popularity.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
04/21/14 10:30 PM
76.7.236.208
|
"Alpha Strikes ONLY make sense in the computer games not the board game".
You can dissect the statement further to get:
"Alpha Strikes NEVER make sense on the board game".
This is a generalization where you say alpha strikes never make sense. Technically speaking, an Alpha Strike is using all your weapons in an attack. I only need a single counterargument to prove that the generalization is not true all the time...
Urbies.
Urbies can fire their entire arsenal and never build up heat. According to the generalization this should make no sense because alpha strikes should never make sense on the board game. Since this situation under the generalization and goes against it, the generalization is not consistent.
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Karagin
04/21/14 10:38 PM
70.118.139.48
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The Urban mech has an autocanon and not much else so yes it can pull it off, one mech or a couple doing it was never the issue, now blah that is all you see...all because the computer game made it popular and the rules allow. Then again the rules allow a lot of things, doesn't mean it needs to be done, but if min/maxing and winning only is the playing style that is being looked for...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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LegatusDavoke
04/21/14 10:44 PM
99.101.200.202
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I build my mechs around heat dissipation more out of a paranoia of losing MP or blowing my ammo if i get flamered, inferno'd, need to walk through a flaming hex, get firebombed, etc. I'd much rather be able to push all my damage out all the time, than have to cut back.
There'll be the devil to pay mate. Better make it good, eh?
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Retry
04/21/14 10:47 PM
76.7.236.208
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*sigh*
Just because a rule allows something to be done, and it doesn't need to be done, doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.
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LegatusDavoke
04/21/14 10:50 PM
99.101.200.202
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Well, its served me well so far. Never had an auto-shutdown, never had ammo blow, kill enemies at a quick pace, and have never gone above 8 points on the heat scale. The last one almost doesn't count because i took two Plasma Rifle hits when i went 1 point over on the heat scale. But yeah. <.<
There'll be the devil to pay mate. Better make it good, eh?
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Karagin
04/21/14 10:53 PM
70.118.139.48
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Each to their own on things.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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LegatusDavoke
04/21/14 10:55 PM
99.101.200.202
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Now as far as actual weapon systems go, I always layer my firepower to a general format of very long/long/medium/short, which comes in handy when selecting a group for scenarios.
There'll be the devil to pay mate. Better make it good, eh?
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
04/22/14 05:32 PM
208.54.85.197
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I updated my design
I dropped a Medium Laser for another ton of LGR ammo.
If using fractional accounting I added 1/4 ton of LGR ammo. If you don't use it drip one crit and four shots from the LGR
Hunter
Equipment Mass 75
Internal Structure: -Endo Steel 3.75t
Engine: 300
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 4
Heat Sinks: 10 (20) Double
Gyro: 1.5 XL
Cockpit: 3
Armor Factor: Standard 231 14.5t
Internal Armor/Armor
Head 3/9
Center Torso 23/35
Center Torso(rear) -/11
R/L Torso 16/25
R/L Torso(rear) -7
R/L Arm 12/24
R/L Leg 16/32
Weapons and Ammo Location Critical Tonnage
Light Gauss rifle LA 5 12
Targeting Computer LGR LA 3 3
LGR ammo (36) LT 3* 2.25*
2 Medium Lasers LT 2 2
4 Medium Lasers RT 4 4
Extended Range Large Laser RA 2 5
Cost 8,477,500
I would have given it an XL engine but you said cost is a factor
The mech is built around its Light Gauss Rifle as such the weapon was given a targeting computer to increase its effectiveness.
An Extended Range Large Laser was installed to help when the light gauss rifle ammo was getting low and a long range weapon was needed .
To insure that it was not under armed if things got close and personal six Medium Lasers where added .
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Cray
04/22/14 06:38 PM
71.47.91.0
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Quote:
ghostrider writes:
Both are made in space. The alloys that are made separate in gravity.
Both? Endo-steel is the only canon item noted as requiring zero-gravity for manufacturing.
Quote:
Which would logically mean it is hard to fix, since I doubt the metals used in it would melt at the same temperature, and would seperate as it was being fixed.
Nitpicking: Metallurgical segregation is not just different melting points, but also compatibility of the different elements. Some metals won't mix (like oil and water) despite having the similar melting points.
On topic: repairing alloys that have chemical segregation problems is not always impossible, but is usually at least a headache. The work done to repair single crystal, heavily-alloyed, aligned-crystal superalloys for jet engine turbine blades is magnificent metallurgy. Those alloys have 10 to 15 deliberate alloying elements and need to control another 10 to 15 impurities that would mess up their properties. Repairing a melted or sheared-off turbine blade tip involves getting the replacement material to match the atomic alignment of the original blade, but not piling in so much heat that you alter the crystalline geometry of the remaining blade material (or, worse, melt some of the original blade). And the repair can't contaminate the blade with, say, carbon or hydrogen from common heat sources like a welding torch.
The cool thing about that is that aftermarket jet engine repair shops accomplish all that with blue collar workers at about 1/3 to 1/4 the price of the original equipment manufacturers. Folks like Pratt & Whitney and GE hate third party blade repair shops because that competition eats their profit margin alive, but what airline wants to spend $1500 on a new turbine blade from GE when Sulzer can repair one to FAA standards for $300 or $400?
I digress. My point is that while the initial endo-steel manufacturing might require exotic conditions, but repair in less exotic environments isn't out of the question.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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ghostrider
04/22/14 11:36 PM
24.30.142.80
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yeah, in the next post I had, I realized I had made a mistake about the ferrous fiber.
I misread the entry when it came out sooo many years ago.
Now as for costs, when has the original manufacturer not cost 3 to 4 times what the repair shop does?
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