**TRO:JMInc. 3025** 40-45 Tons

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KamikazeJohnson
12/05/14 11:52 PM
207.161.146.219

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**TRO:JMInc. 3025** 40-45 Tons

Here come the next set of design for my own TRO:3025. As the 'Mechs get heavier, I have more freedom to mix things up, so expect the designs to get more original and interesting as the tonnage goes up. Keep those comments coming!!

**Note**
This thread is best viewed, and replied to, in Threaded mode. Please make generous use of the "Quote" feature, so that everyone can tell which design is being referred to by any given comment. Thanks!!
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
KamikazeJohnson
12/05/14 11:55 PM
207.161.146.219

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JMInc. 40A

Mass: 40 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-E-D-A
Production Year: 3025
Cost: 2,708,813 C-Bills
Battle Value: 872

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 160 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
1 PPC
3 Medium Lasers
1 LRM-5
2 Machine Guns
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

Overview:
Slow for such a light 'Mech, the JMInc. 40A makes up for it with substantial
armour coverage and significant firepower at all ranges. Equipped for heavy
hitting at long range, light Indirect Fire capability, and also Anti-Infantry,
the 40A is a great choice to support Heavy and Assault 'Mechs at a low price
tag.

Detractors have criticized the 'Mechs low speed, especially the lack of Jump
Jets, but it keeps pace with the 'Mechs it is designed to support, so, like the
better-known Panther 'Mech, its speed is generally considered acceptable for
its role.


================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard 67 points 4.00
Engine: Fusion Engine 160 6.00
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: Single Heat Sink 12 2.00
Heat Sink Locations: 2 LT, 2 RT, 1 LL, 1 RL
Gyro: Standard 2.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 120 7.50

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 12 17
Center Torso (rear) 6
L/R Torso 10 14
L/R Torso (rear) 5
L/R Arm 6 10
L/R Leg 10 15

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medium Laser RA 3 1 1.00
Machine Gun RA 0 1 0.50
PPC LA 10 3 7.00
LRM-5 RT 2 1 2.00
Medium Laser LT 3 1 1.00
Medium Laser CT 3 1 1.00
Machine Gun CT 0 1 0.50
@LRM-5 (48) RT - 2 2.00
@MG (1/2) (100) RT - 1 0.50
Free Critical Slots: 30

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 4 Points: 9
4 2 2 1 0 2 1 Structure: 3
Special Abilities: SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

MY BLURB:
A Panther on steroids, or something new and original?
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
ghostrider
12/06/14 02:09 AM
67.49.78.45

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Unusual placement for the ppc. Most are in the right arm, due to more right handed people.
It is also unusual to see the second mg in the torso and not in the other arm. Yes, technically they would not fire at the same target, and there is only the +1 aim penalty for firing at a second target, if it was. I would honestly think taking out an infantry target would be better then damaging 2, so pulling a thunderbolt/battle master, having both in one arm might be the better option
The mls could have the same argument about left arm, but I wouldn't put both in one arm.

Only other thing I can think of at the moment would be a second lrm or increase the one. Granted that would mean losing the mgs or mls. I can see this unit dealing with infantry while the big boys it escorts play havok with the rest of the enemies lines.

Just seen the mg has half ton ammo bin. Would have to remove half ton armor if you want that route.

Still looks like you could deal with the light mechs that would try and get behind the big boys. The lack of jets is iffy, but the firepower should cover it.
KamikazeJohnson
12/06/14 02:44 AM
207.161.146.219

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Quote:
ghostrider writes:

Unusual placement for the ppc. Most are in the right arm, due to more right handed people.
It is also unusual to see the second mg in the torso and not in the other arm. Yes, technically they would not fire at the same target, and there is only the +1 aim penalty for firing at a second target, if it was. I would honestly think taking out an infantry target would be better then damaging 2, so pulling a thunderbolt/battle master, having both in one arm might be the better option
The mls could have the same argument about left arm, but I wouldn't put both in one arm.



I generally prefer to split up sets of weapons, particularly MGs and MLs in order to cover all firing arcs, and I try to avoid putting a lot of close-range weapons in the arms so they don't conflict with physical attacks. Personal choice.

Quote:
Only other thing I can think of at the moment would be a second lrm or increase the one. Granted that would mean losing the mgs or mls. I can see this unit dealing with infantry while the big boys it escorts play havok with the rest of the enemies lines.

Just seen the mg has half ton ammo bin. Would have to remove half ton armor if you want that route.

Still looks like you could deal with the light mechs that would try and get behind the big boys. The lack of jets is iffy, but the firepower should cover it.



My first draft had a LRM 10 and a PPC and not much else...looked too much like a gimped-down Griffin for my liking. The single LRM 5 supplements the long-range and provides token IDF, while the mix of close-range allows it to "bodyguard" specialist Heavies against fast raiders. I wanted a bit more versatility than the Panther without taking the tonnage up too much, so ditching the JJs was an easy solution.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
KamikazeJohnson
12/06/14 07:34 PM
207.161.146.219

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JMInc. 40B

Mass: 40 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-D-D-A
Production Year: 3025
Cost: 3,602,760 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,005

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 240 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 64.8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 97.2 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 180 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
5 Medium Lasers
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

Overview:
The JMInc. 40B. A simple, but highly effective schematic. Moderate armour, a
top speed just shy of 100 km/hr, and a 180m Jump range. And it packs a punch
that would concern just about any pilot, particularly if it's behind them...


================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard 67 points 4.00
Engine: Fusion Engine 240 11.50
Walking MP: 6
Running MP: 9
Jumping MP: 6 Standard
Jump Jet Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT, 2 LL, 2 RL 3.00
Heat Sinks: Single Heat Sink 14 4.00
Heat Sink Locations: 1 CT, 2 LT, 2 RT
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 104 6.50

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 12 15
Center Torso (rear) 4
L/R Torso 10 12
L/R Torso (rear) 4
L/R Arm 6 9
L/R Leg 10 13

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medium Laser RA 3 1 1.00
Medium Laser LA 3 1 1.00
Medium Laser RT 3 1 1.00
Medium Laser LT 3 1 1.00
Medium Laser CT 3 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 31

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 3 Points: 10
6j 3 3 0 0 2 0 Structure: 3
Special Abilities: ENE, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

MY BLURB:
Bland but nasty...
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
ghostrider
12/06/14 09:09 PM
67.49.78.45

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40b.
Evil. If luck is on your side, and you hit the same spot, you could very well take a limb off almost any mech, and really cause the big bad assault mechs day to be ruined, including their shorts.
Depending on how close they want to get, it might be worth it to swap a single ml for 2 sls.
But then I would suggest moving arm lasers in, so you can punch on top of the laser strike that close. Yeah, kick kick kick is what others would say.
KamikazeJohnson
12/07/14 04:13 AM
207.161.146.219

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Quote:
ghostrider writes:

40b.
Evil. If luck is on your side, and you hit the same spot, you could very well take a limb off almost any mech, and really cause the big bad assault mechs day to be ruined, including their shorts.
Depending on how close they want to get, it might be worth it to swap a single ml for 2 sls.
But then I would suggest moving arm lasers in, so you can punch on top of the laser strike that close. Yeah, kick kick kick is what others would say.



With a 'Mech this size, I really wouldn't recommend getting into Physical range with most opponents...especially since I can see this picking on latger 'Mechs. Lighter 'Mechs of course are unlikely to willingly let this thing get anywhere inside 6 hexes.

I like having something in the arms for better firing arcs, just in case it gets caught in a bad position.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
ghostrider
12/07/14 03:54 PM
67.49.78.45

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I was thinking more along the lines of when it gets into the backside of the larger mechs. Granted that could be said about any mech.

And yes, arm weapons are always nice, especially when you are running and need to shoot at your pursuer. Torso weapons just don't like to fire to the rear when facing forward. And I am not saying arm flipping.
KamikazeJohnson
12/09/14 11:43 AM
207.161.146.219

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JMInc. 40C

Mass: 40 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-E-D-A
Production Year: 3025
Cost: 2,801,027 C-Bills
Battle Value: 972

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 200 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
1 LRM-20
2 Medium Lasers
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

Overview:
Another Support 'Mech from JMInc. The lightest 'Mech in the TRO to carry the
massive LRM 20 rack, it provides substantial supporting fire for its size (and
cost), and 4 full tons of ammo give it plenty of staying power.


With only modest speed and armour coverage for its size, and only 2 Medium
Lasers for close-range combat, the 40C is best kept out of the middle of the
action, especially without Jump Jets to aid in a speedy escape.


================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard 67 points 4.00
Engine: Fusion Engine 200 8.50
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: Single Heat Sink 10 0.00
Heat Sink Locations: 2 RT
Gyro: Standard 2.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 104 6.50

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 12 15
Center Torso (rear) 4
L/R Torso 10 13
L/R Torso (rear) 4
L/R Arm 6 9
L/R Leg 10 12

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Medium Laser RA 3 1 1.00
Medium Laser LA 3 1 1.00
LRM-20 LT 6 5 10.00
@LRM-20 (24) RT - 4 4.00
Free Critical Slots: 34

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 3 Points: 10
5 2 3 2 0 2 0 Structure: 3
Special Abilities: SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA, LRM 1/1/1, IF 1

MY BLURB:
All right...who cut my Archer in half???
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
ghostrider
12/09/14 06:42 PM
67.49.78.45

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40c
Definitely got ammo. Had to rethink the suggestion of removing a ton, but realized it's only 24 shots. I could very well see the enemy sending out units to look for this one in a battle. I think the dervish is the lightest canon mech that could send out 20 lrms, but it uses twin 10 packs.

I can see this unit opening up some confusion and pain among the enemy.

Did you think of using a 15 pack and use the weight saved elsewhere?
This is not saying the 20 pack is a bad idea. This is a good support unit when things like the davion light guards need some heavy support. Hell, it might just change the way some people think about using hordes against the enemy.
These would survive a little longer as they don't need to be under 270 meter (9 hexes) for a good shot.
KamikazeJohnson
12/09/14 08:56 PM
24.114.25.111

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Quote:
ghostrider writes:

40c
Definitely got ammo. Had to rethink the suggestion of removing a ton, but realized it's only 24 shots. I could very well see the enemy sending out units to look for this one in a battle. I think the dervish is the lightest canon mech that could send out 20 lrms, but it uses twin 10 packs.



The Whitworth at 40 tons carries twin LRM 10s, functionally very similar to this. I liked the idea of the single big rack, since I haven't used one yet

Quote:
Did you think of using a 15 pack and use the weight saved elsewhere?
This is not saying the 20 pack is a bad idea. This is a good support unit when things like the davion light guards need some heavy support. Hell, it might just change the way some people think about using hordes against the enemy.



My first draft suffered the fate of failing to be original enough. I found myself at a loss for anythin interesting to use for backup weapons. LRM 15/Large Laser was intetesting, but I didn't have tonnage for Ammo, Armour, and Heat Sinks. The LRM 20 is interesting enough on its own to work with just MLs for backup.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
ghostrider
12/10/14 12:13 AM
67.49.78.45

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You could have used the mls like you did, though maybe adding jets would have helped some. Then again another ml or 2 might have worked.
As for original, that is tough with some of the lighter units. And original isn't always the best way to go. But it is nice to see someone trying.
KamikazeJohnson
12/10/14 03:22 PM
207.161.146.219

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JMInc. 45A

Mass: 45 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-E-D-A
Production Year: 3025
Cost: 3,846,415 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,071

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 225 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 54.0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86.4 km/h
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 150 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
1 Large Laser
1 SRM-6
1 Medium Laser
1 LRM-5
2 Small Lasers
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

Overview:
The Thunderbolt-inspired JMInc. 45A is a solid front-line unit with good
mobility, decent armour, and a good mix of both long- and short-range weaponry.
The versatility of the Large Laser can cause an inattentive 'Mechwarrior to
run hot at close-range, but the variety or weapon choices make the heat quite
manageable if the pilot is selective, and the damage output of a desperate (or
oppotunistic) Alpha Strike can be devastating.


Variants:
The primary criticism of the 45A is the lack of anti-infantry weapons (the SRM
is somewhat effective, but the limited ammo makes it an inefficient choice), so
a proposed variant removes the Small Lasers in exchange for a single Machine
Gun and 1/2 ton of ammo.


================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard 75 points 4.50
Engine: Fusion Engine 225 10.00
Walking MP: 5
Running MP: 8
Jumping MP: 5 Standard
Jump Jet Locations: 1 CT, 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 LL, 1 RL 2.50
Heat Sinks: Single Heat Sink 10 0.00
Heat Sink Locations: 1 CT
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 128 8.00

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 14 18
Center Torso (rear) 5
L/R Torso 11 17
L/R Torso (rear) 4
L/R Arm 7 12
L/R Leg 11 15

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
LRM-5 RA 2 1 2.00
SRM-6 LA 4 2 3.00
2 Small Lasers RT 2 2 1.00
Large Laser LT 8 2 5.00
Medium Laser HD 3 1 1.00
@LRM-5 (24) RT - 1 1.00
@SRM-6 (15) LT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 31

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 4 Points: 11
5j 2 2 1 0 2 1 Structure: 4
Special Abilities: SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

MY BLURB:
The 45B gets us into some serious firepower, something I consider a worthy front-line 'Mech, unlike most of the original TRO:3025 Mediums. surprising what you can do when you don't feel the need to make everything either carry an Autocannon or walk 8 hexes.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
CrayModerator
12/10/14 06:27 PM
67.8.171.23

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Quote:
KamikazeJohnson writes:
MY BLURB:
The 45B gets us into some serious firepower, something I consider a worthy front-line 'Mech, unlike most of the original TRO:3025 Mediums. surprising what you can do when you don't feel the need to make everything either carry an Autocannon or walk 8 hexes.



I was going to say it seemed like a faster version of the Vindicator, but I see the Thunderbolt comparison. Interesting how little you need to shed to make it 5/8. It does run a bit warm with all those short-ranged weapons.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
ghostrider
12/10/14 06:28 PM
67.49.78.45

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The 45a gives me the feeling of a wolverine mech with the cannon swapped for a large laser with an lrm 5 pack.

Only thing that might be an issue is overheating when jumping and using the large laser. Always an problem with mediums it seems. I don't see to much of a way around it, without losing to much firepower. I guess smart use of terrain to just sit a round to relieve that issue would be key.
KamikazeJohnson
12/10/14 08:28 PM
24.114.24.157

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Quote:
ghostrider writes:

Only thing that might be an issue is overheating when jumping and using the large laser. Always an problem with mediums it seems. I don't see to much of a way around it, without losing to much firepower. I guess smart use of terrain to just sit a round to relieve that issue would be key.



Best I can think of would be to downsize the SRM to a 4 and add a Heat Sink,which would help a bit, but really you can't realistically use the Jump Jets consistently while working at long range. Limited use along with the close-range stuff is doable, especially since heat scale won't affect your Jump range, so you can use the Jets to escape if you get too hot.

As a general rule, I agree...PPC or Large Laser + Jump + Medium 'Mech = not good. Stick to walk/run if you can.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
KamikazeJohnson
12/10/14 09:17 PM
207.161.146.219

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Quote:
Cray writes:

Quote:
KamikazeJohnson writes:
MY BLURB:
The 45B gets us into some serious firepower, something I consider a worthy front-line 'Mech, unlike most of the original TRO:3025 Mediums. surprising what you can do when you don't feel the need to make everything either carry an Autocannon or walk 8 hexes.



I was going to say it seemed like a faster version of the Vindicator, but I see the Thunderbolt comparison. Interesting how little you need to shed to make it 5/8. It does run a bit warm with all those short-ranged weapons.



Heat is definitely the biggest concern with this one, as with most 3025 'Mechs...just didn't seem worth it to drop anything for one additional Heat Sink...best candidate really is the Jump Jets...if you're greatest fear is Heat, you won't be using them anyway. Drop the JJ, add 2 Heat Sinks, trade tge Small Lasers for MGs and 1/2 ton ammo. Possibly downgrade the SRM as I mentioned earlier for a 13th HS. But I like the JJ for getting into position easily, or for beating a hasty retreat, even if they're not the most practical when in the thick of things.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
ghostrider
12/11/14 02:13 AM
67.49.78.45

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The jets are fine, just most people forget to leave them off when doing extended firing of large lasers with other weapons. Most would try to use them in an assault run, which the mech could be used for, but leave off the large laser shots for a while.

Jets are great when you are running hot on the heat scale and need to move out. A 1/2 mech trying to flee doesn't work well. But as you said, walk/run tends to be good when using ll or ppc with mediums.
KamikazeJohnson
12/11/14 05:30 PM
24.114.45.128

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Quote:
ghostrider writes:

The jets are fine, just most people forget to leave them off when doing extended firing of large lasers with other weapons. Most would try to use them in an assault run, which the mech could be used for, but leave off the large laser shots for a while.

Jets are great when you are running hot on the heat scale and need to move out. A 1/2 mech trying to flee doesn't work well. But as you said, walk/run tends to be good when using ll or ppc with mediums.



DHS make Jumping Mediums a lot more practical as they can maintain fire with heavy energy weapons while jumping, but until those come along, you have to either use the jets sparingly, or pile on a bunch of extra heat sinks and be outgunned by everything else in your weight class.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
KamikazeJohnson
12/11/14 05:44 PM
207.161.146.219

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JMInc. 45B

Mass: 45 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-F-D-A
Production Year: 3025
Cost: 3,643,415 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1,046

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 270 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 64.8 km/h
Maximum Speed: 97.2 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
4 Medium Lasers
1 LRM-5
1 Hatchet
1 Flamer
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

Overview:
The lightest 'Mech in this TRO to mount a Physical weapon, the 45B is primarily
a close-range fighter, with good speed and a cluster of Medium Lasers to back
up the main feature. Token long-range capability and the added utility of the
Flamer make this a versatile unit in spite of the close-range focus.


================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard 75 points 4.50
Engine: Fusion Engine 270 14.50
Walking MP: 6
Running MP: 9
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: Single Heat Sink 10 0.00
Gyro: Standard 3.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA+H
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 137 9.00

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 14 18
Center Torso (rear) 6
L/R Torso 11 15
L/R Torso (rear) 5
L/R Arm 7 12
L/R Leg 11 20

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hatchet RA - 3 3.00
Flamer LA 3 1 1.00
2 Medium Lasers RT 6 2 2.00
2 Medium Lasers LT 6 2 2.00
LRM-5 CT 2 1 2.00
@LRM-5 (24) CT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 37

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 5 Points: 10
6 2 2 1 0 2 1 Structure: 4
Special Abilities: MEL, SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

MY BLURB:
I always found the original Hatchetman to be massively underpowered...well, the original was OK, but once they implemented construction rule for Hatchets, costing the design 3 tons, it got pretty weak. Boosting the speed and sticking with lighter weapons gives this design more bite, although I can't help feeling that it would have worked better at 5/8/5 rather than 6/9/0.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
CrayModerator
12/11/14 06:21 PM
67.8.171.23

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Quote:
KamikazeJohnson writes:

if you're greatest fear is Heat, you won't be using them anyway.



I just blew up a 3025-era Archer because I overheated and failed a TN 4 ammo explosion check. The other players were more annoyed than I was because the Archer was one of the few good pirate 'Mechs they could've salvaged before it turned to confetti. I ain't afraid of a little heat.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
ghostrider
12/11/14 08:14 PM
67.49.78.45

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It happens at times. You would think a 4 is an easy thing to hit.
Now if it was that bad, it would have taken out some of the players in the explosion.

Now with the 45b.
If you think it was better with the 5/8/5, why didn't you go with that?
But it goes back to the a. People would overheat it just getting to an enemy with the jets.
Granted, I think it could probably drop the flamer for another heat sink, since even dropping one laser from a volley won't let it cool down if it moves at all.

Though with the extra movement point, it could catch normal mediums in the open. Most the 55 tonners are 5/8/?. I think the scorpion was 6/9/0.

I agree the ac 10 in the hatchetman wasn't as good as it could have been, but getting into range for using the hatchet was the issue. The knowing everything on the field tends to cause issues with making a few surprises.
KamikazeJohnson
12/12/14 12:13 AM
24.114.44.236

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Quote:
Now with the 45b.
If you think it was better with the 5/8/5, why didn't you go with that?
But it goes back to the a. People would overheat it just getting to an enemy with the jets.



My original design point on this one was to use 6/9 movement, so I stuck wuth that, even though the design specifics seem to work better with different movement. But the heat difference is not that great if you invest the extra 2 tons in Heat Sinks...only 1 additional heat at full Jump than the original running, and much better heat management when not running.

Quote:
Granted, I think it could probably drop the flamer for another heat sink, since even dropping one laser from a volley won't let it cool down if it moves at all.



The Flamer is a highly inefficient anti-'Mech weapon, so it should rarely, if ever'get fired along with the other weapons. It's intended for starting fires (with all their useful side-effects)
or to give the 45B some anti-Infantry utility.

Quote:
Though with the extra movement point, it could catch normal mediums in the open. Most the 55 tonners are 5/8/?. I think the scorpion was 6/9/0.



Shadow Hawk only jumped 3. Scorpion was fast, but most of the 50-tonners were 4/6 or 5/8. But even a faster 'Mech gas a hard time catching a 5-Jumper with comparable jump range, unless the terrain is completely open.

Quote:
I agree the ac 10 in the hatchetman wasn't as good as it could have been, but getting into range for using the hatchet was the issue. The knowing everything on the field tends to cause issues with making a few surprises.



IMO, the original Hatchetman needed 5/8 or 5/8/5 movement to properly fulfill its intended role.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
ghostrider
12/12/14 05:21 AM
67.49.78.45

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I know the shadow hawk was less, hence the ? in the jump spot.

It is odd to see a mech with a flamer that isn't really specialized for fire starting. It was useful for helping enemy mechs over heat when firing alot, but the anti infantry use helps. If they still have it, anti vehicle as well, since tanks don't withstand fire very well. Don't remember if the flamer kills the vehicle outright, or if it is just being in a flaming hex.

Only suggested removing it for an extra heat sink. But as with alot of the canon 3025 mechs, smart use of firepower is the key.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
12/12/14 05:45 AM
172.56.6.70

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I was gone for a week so there is just to much to cover so I will just keep my comments to jump jets.

In 3025 tech I am not all that interested in them. They take up to much resources on the mech for to little tactical advantage. Once DHS came around then they became a good tactical advantage.

In 3025 tech I see bumping up the speed by one hex a turn as far more useful than adding jump jets.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
KamikazeJohnson
12/12/14 11:14 AM
207.161.146.219

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Quote:
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey writes:

I was gone for a week so there is just to much to cover so I will just keep my comments to jump jets.



Don't be shy, let's hear it all

Quote:
In 3025 tech I am not all that interested in them. They take up to much resources on the mech for to little tactical advantage. Once DHS came around then they became a good tactical advantage.

In 3025 tech I see bumping up the speed by one hex a turn as far more useful than adding jump jets.



Even in 3025, most Mediums can handle the Jump up to 4 hexes...only 2 tons spent, and 2 extra heat compared to a run, but farther than that can ve very burdensone, particularly on a 'Mech that depends on a PPC or Large Laser.

OTOH, the 8-hex jump range on a Spider or Ostscout can make them a force to be reckoned with, if used properly.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
12/12/14 01:00 PM
172.56.6.64

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I just dont see that big of a tactical advantage compared to the cost in heat and weight.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
KamikazeJohnson
12/12/14 04:12 PM
24.114.38.217

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Quote:
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey writes:

I just dont see that big of a tactical advantage compared to the cost in heat and weight.



I should introduce you to a guy I game with...he'll use anything, as long as it jumps...
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
KamikazeJohnson
12/13/14 11:37 PM
207.161.146.219

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JMInc. 45C

Mass: 45 tons
Tech Base: Inner Sphere
Chassis Config: Biped
Rules Level: Tournament Legal
Era: Succession Wars
Tech Rating/Era Availability: D/X-E-D-A
Production Year: 3025
Cost: 3,038,620 C-Bills
Battle Value: 909

Chassis: Unknown Standard
Power Plant: Unknown 180 Fusion Engine
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor: Unknown Standard Armor
Armament:
1 PPC
1 Autocannon/5
1 Medium Laser
2 Machine Guns
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

Overview:
Another attempt to bring Heavy-'Mech firepower to the field at a more
reasonable price tag. Also the first appearance of the AC/5 in this TRO. The
low heat output of the Autocannon is at its finest in this sitution, giving
this 45-tonner the ability to match many Heavy 'Mechs of the area at range.
And it is far from weak in close, with decent armour coverage, and the
long-range weapon's supplemented by a Medium Laser and a pair of Anti-Inantry
Miniguns.


================================================================================
Equipment Type Rating Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internal Structure: Standard 75 points 4.50
Engine: Fusion Engine 180 7.00
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: Single Heat Sink 12 2.00
Heat Sink Locations: 2 CT, 2 LT, 1 RT
Gyro: Standard 2.00
Cockpit: Standard 3.00
Actuators: L: SH+UA+LA+H R: SH+UA+LA
Armor: Standard Armor AV - 128 8.00

Internal Armor
Structure Factor
Head 3 9
Center Torso 14 18
Center Torso (rear) 5
L/R Torso 11 17
L/R Torso (rear) 4
L/R Arm 7 12
L/R Leg 11 15

================================================================================
Equipment Location Heat Critical Mass
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
PPC RA 10 3 7.00
2 Machine Guns LA 0 2 1.00
Medium Laser RT 3 1 1.00
Autocannon/5 LT 1 4 8.00
@MG (1/2) (100) LA - 1 0.50
@AC/5 (20) LT - 1 1.00
Free Critical Slots: 31

BattleForce Statistics
MV S (+0) M (+2) L (+4) E (+6) Wt. Ov Armor: 4 Points: 9
4 3 2 2 0 2 0 Structure: 4
Special Abilities: SRCH, ES, SEAL, SOA

MY BLURB:
Increase to 95 tons and add armour...looks kinda familiar...
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
ghostrider
12/14/14 12:21 AM
67.49.78.45

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And yet, you could probably field 3 or more of these for the same price.

Though the 45c looks like a weird enforcer as well. The large laser/ac10 is about the same tonnage.
Can't think of much good or bad in this one. I dislike the ac 5, but it doesn't mean the weapon is bad. Just a preference.
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