Karagin
03/04/02 06:12 PM
63.173.170.88
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Type/Model: Early M-11
Tech: Inner Sphere / 3060
Config: Tracked Vehicle
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Mass: 65 tons
Power Plant: 260 Magna Fusion
Cruise Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Armor Type: York Industries CTC-0 Standard
Armament:
1 Le Baron 70 Light Gauss Rifle
1 Browning Arms Medium Laser
1 Blankenburg Technologies Medium Pulse Laser
1 Eviac-500 LRM 5
1 Marklin Mini Missile Pack SRM 2
1 Firmir LaserLite Small Laser
Manufacturer: General Motors
Location: Detorit, Terra
Communications System: Colmax-025
Targeting & Tracking System: FireScan with IndirecTrack
==Overview:==
The M-11 Early is an attempt by GM to put out a fairly cheap heavy tank that can give it's customers high tech weaponary and materials with out the high price tag. When picking a name for this tank the engineers at GM, borrowed an old tradation from ancient Terra, they named the tank after a famous general. For this one they chose famous general from the ancient nation state of Untied States of America, that was once on the North American landmass of Terra.
The Early is design to be an all around comabt tank. It has the firepower to cause mechs to wake up and notice it.
==Deployment==
The Early is starting to gain customers in the Chaos March and out in Periphery, the biggest purchase has been made by the Outworlds Alliance who have bought a company's worth.
This sale is hoped to bolster more sales as reports come back in of how the Early performed in combat.
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Early M-11
Mass: 65 tons
Equipment: Items Mass
Int. Struct.: 35 pts Standard 0 6.50
Engine: 260 Fusion 0 13.50
Shielding & Transmission Equipment: 0 7.00
Cruise MP: 4
Flank MP: 6
Heat Sinks: 10 Single 0 .00
Cockpit & Controls: 0 3.50
Crew: 5 Members 0 .00
Turret Equipment: 0 1.50
Armor Factor: 160 pts Standard 0 10.00
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Front: 7 45
Left / Right Sides: 7 30/30
Rear: 7 25
Turret: 7 30
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Items Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Light Gauss Rifle Turret 0 32 2 14.00
1 Medium Laser Turret 3 1 1.00
1 Medium Pulse Laser Front 4 1 2.00
1 LRM 5 Turret 0 24 2 3.00
1 SRM 2 Front 0 50 2 2.00
1 Small Laser Front 1 1 .50
1 C.A.S.E. Equipment Body 1 .50
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 8 10 65.00
Items & Tons Left: 8 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 3,147,238 C-Bills
Battle Value: 593
Cost per BV: 5,307.31
Weapon Value: 603 / 603 (Ratio = 1.02 / 1.02)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 20; MRDmg = 9; LRDmg = 6
BattleForce2: MP: 4T, Armor/Structure: 0 / 7
Damage PB/M/L: 3/3/1, Overheat: 0
Class: GH; Point Value: 6
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
03/04/02 06:16 PM
12.91.129.165
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Has an LGR and too many other small, pinprick weapons. Specialize the tank in some kind of pain: LGR+LRMs or LGR+SRMs, for example.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
03/04/02 06:17 PM
63.173.170.88
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What? Did you read the fluff?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
03/04/02 06:21 PM
134.121.157.14
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This is a tank.
It can fight.
It has high-tech.
I'm with Cray on this one: It's an unimpressive design.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Cray
03/04/02 06:21 PM
12.91.129.165
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Yes. The Early is too...unspecialized. Unconcentrated. Without expensive, rare-in-the-Periphery munitions like Thunder, the LRM isn't very useful. The LGR is nice on a vehicle, but doesn't live up to the fluff of heavy firepower. You've got two different lasers competing in the same roles, and a small laser adding very little. Specialize, specialize.
Remember, many BT weapons have overlapping roles and performance.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Cray
03/04/02 06:23 PM
12.91.129.165
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Hey, now, I didn't say it was unimpressive. The 65-ton fusion-powered weight class has a lot of potential with the right weaponry.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Bob_Richter
03/04/02 06:24 PM
134.121.157.14
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Eh. I know. I made one.
But it had a REAL Gauss Rifle.
*chuckle*
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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KamikazeJohnson
03/04/02 06:26 PM
209.202.47.12
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but how do those reply cost-wise to this one? I haven't designed many tanks so I don't really have a feel for the cost numbers...
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Karagin
03/04/02 06:26 PM
63.173.170.88
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The idea of over lapping is taken into account, the Medium laser is there to cover things that get in close and then the fall back of the Medium Pulse is there to take out infantry and other things like that.
The Small lasers was tossed on since I felt the armor was enough and the vehicle already had CASE.
As for heavy firepower, that is subjective and this vehicle can give a very nice 20 point punch at close range and decent punch at medium range. At long range it's more intended to harass then enemy then to try and kill them.
Again the over all idea was to give some high tech items, (ie LGR, MPL, and CASE) for a reasonable cost to the clint/user.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
03/04/02 06:31 PM
134.121.157.14
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Most of the cost for a Fusion-powered tank is the engine.
The standard GR is only 25K more expensive than the Light GR. (a bare fraction of its cost) and eliminates 3 tons of other expensive gear.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Cray
03/04/02 06:32 PM
12.91.129.165
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Note that at L1-L2, medium lasers and medium pulse lasers demonstrate virtually identical anti-infantry utility. Better to kill the buggers at range than depend on the MPL's short range accuracy to kill them.
A small laser...eh. If you think you have enough armor, then it makes a nice, ammo-efficient way of getting dinner for the crew.
Honestly, the LGR/MPL/CASE don't count as "high tech" to me, if it makes you feel better.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
03/04/02 06:35 PM
63.173.170.88
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While three may not be high tech to you they are still high tech in the game, thus the idea to build something that gives the client something for their money's worth.
A possible variant would be to drop the MPL for another ML and go that route...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
03/04/02 06:47 PM
63.173.170.88
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Why would you drop the CASE?
You go from having several weapons to having three max with your idea...and only one high tech weapon, what does the client gain that is not offered by one of GM's other vehicles by going your route?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Hellbringer
03/04/02 06:53 PM
192.195.234.26
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Drop the LRM and then you do not have any more ammo to be protected by a CASE. Although you have a lot of Weapons now, the LRM and Gauss present a bit of a min. range problem. The lasers do not give enough punch to take care of that problem either.
"But it SHOULD be a spectacle! It should be grand and exciting to us all! I'd hate to think that we've become so jaded that we find even our greatest tiumph, resurrecting the Star League, simply one more obligation."
-General Victor Steiner-Davion (First Prince and Archon in exile) 3064
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Karagin
03/04/02 06:56 PM
63.173.170.88
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What 1.5 ton CASE? HMVee tells me there is only one CASE system on the tank in the body with all the ammo for the tank, I don't see anyother CASE units on the tank, can you point them out to me please?
Your version misses the point, you are NOT giving the customer a lot of high tech weapons and such for decent price. That is the point, they get some of the newer weapon systems without breaking their defense buggets.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
03/04/02 06:57 PM
63.173.170.88
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Interesting idea for a variant...but the main purpose of this tank is to give the user nation some high tech weaponary at a price they can afford.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
03/04/02 07:05 PM
63.173.170.88
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Now that is a very good idea...I think I will add that one in as a variant...thanks.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
03/04/02 07:08 PM
63.173.170.88
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Fine yours is a better tank, but that is NOT the question at hand.
The idea is to give them something new, without costing an arm and a leg. All that they get is a Gauss Rifle with your take on things...not really some all that new...and then they have only one ranged weapon...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
03/04/02 07:17 PM
63.173.170.88
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Please understand while that is all good and fine it does not follow the idea behind the vehicle.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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SpudmanWP
03/04/02 07:24 PM
148.78.248.10
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Swap out the weapons with a turrent that has an ER PPC and 3 med lasers. The tank will not have any ammo concerns, cost only 3,025,434, and have only 2 weapon systems to maintain.
SpudmanWp
"The breakfast of champions is not cereal..... it's the competition.
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Karagin
03/04/02 07:24 PM
63.173.170.88
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Again as I mention to someone over the idea of vehicles using XL engines, that is your opinion. I felt other wise and thus the vehicle mounts the LGR.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
03/04/02 07:25 PM
63.173.170.88
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And where is the high tech weaponary and items to give the customer more for his money?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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NathanKell
03/04/02 07:48 PM
24.44.238.62
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Except...why would they want something that, however new, is worse than what they already have?
Unless they're dumb, and GM is trying to make a quick c-bill.
-NathanKell, BT Space Wars
Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear.
Thomas Jefferson |
SpudmanWP
03/04/02 08:00 PM
148.78.248.10
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In reply to:
And where is the high tech weaponary
That's what the ER PPC is for. Remember that "High Tech" usually means "High Cost". And remember that this version has no ammo requirements. In the long run, cost is very low.
SpudmanWp
"The breakfast of champions is not cereal..... it's the competition.
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Karagin
03/04/02 08:08 PM
63.173.170.184
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Interesting idea. I will look into it.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
03/04/02 08:11 PM
63.173.170.184
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The ER PPC is not high tech in that it is new to the Inner Sphere. It has been around for awhile in game time. High tech would be things like the LGR etc...
And over all cost was low to start with, since LRM/SRM ammo is cheap and the only cost would be in the LGR ammo, which can still be gotten for a decent price since that would be the only thing costly to the user.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
03/04/02 08:12 PM
63.173.170.184
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If you don't like it then don't use it...that is what is nice about this, if the customer feels that it is not up to their needs etc...then they can go somewhere else. Simple and easy.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
03/04/02 08:25 PM
63.173.170.184
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And the M11 Early is a good and cheap tank, now if you feel it is not, then don't use it.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
03/04/02 08:43 PM
134.121.16.63
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>>>And the M11 Early is a good and cheap tank,<<<
Actually, it's a lousy, expensive tank.
Fusion Engines! HA!
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
03/04/02 08:45 PM
134.121.16.63
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Hate to break it to ya, but LGRs are almost a decade old now.
Welcome to 3067!
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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SpudmanWP
03/04/02 11:42 PM
66.124.114.54
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How's this:
Rac/5 with 8 tons ammo w/case
3 med lasers
2 small lasers
Alll weapons are in the turrent.
SpudmanWp
"The breakfast of champions is not cereal..... it's the competition.
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Karagin
03/04/02 11:44 PM
63.173.170.227
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Interesting, but considering this tank is being sold to just about anyone, I don't see the FedCom letting go of the RAC5s that easially...but still it's an interesting idea.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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KamikazeJohnson
03/04/02 11:44 PM
209.202.47.12
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Keep in mind that in this universe, customers bought the JagerMech :-\
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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SpudmanWP
03/04/02 11:51 PM
66.124.114.54
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If you drop the speed to 3/5 you can do this:
How about 2 RAC/5
8 tons ammo w/case
2 med lasers
or drop the lasers for 2 more tons of ammo and 1/2 ton of armor 
SpudmanWp
"The breakfast of champions is not cereal..... it's the competition.
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Bob_Richter
03/04/02 11:55 PM
134.121.247.162
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Its autocannons were supposedly useful in an anti-aircraft role. I've always wanted rules that would reflect that supposed superiority.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
03/04/02 11:56 PM
63.173.170.227
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Again interesting, but given the fact that the RAC is a House Davion weapon only, I don't see this version happening anytime soon.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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SpudmanWP
03/05/02 12:09 AM
66.124.114.54
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Sorry.. I don't keep up on who owns what....
BTW, who produces the LGR? Is it wide spread?
Speaking as a former M1A1 tanker, I like the simplicity of only 2 weapon systems and not needing ammo reduces the need for a loader (in RL). The all energy version is more suited to a defensive tank because when a planet get's invaded, the supply depots and manufacturing facilities would be the first hit. This version could run indefinetly with only the need to repair/replce its damaged weapons (which would be common on today's battlefield). It would not have to rely on a supply chain for ammo/fuel.
But also being a tanker, I have seen my share of high-tech "oh... look what we can get" equipment come down the pipe without the thought of support. This can also be said about the IT industry today. Don't get me started on how many of my company's salesmen have installed XP (both OfficeXP and WindowsXP) on their laptops without consulting IT. Surprise, surprise..... Our inhouse, custom designed software no longer works. Sorry for the rant.
SpudmanWp
"The breakfast of champions is not cereal..... it's the competition.
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Karagin
03/05/02 12:12 AM
63.173.170.227
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The LGR is made mostly by the FWL. And seeing how tight the WoB is or was with the FWL, I went the idea that they would be in the market for it etc...
As for the rest, I agree and I too have seen the US Army's idea of "cool new toys" and then find out they have a lemon...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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KamikazeJohnson
03/05/02 12:23 AM
209.202.47.12
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>>As for the rest, I agree and I too have seen the US Army's idea of "cool new toys" and then find out they have a lemon... <<
"There are two types of fools in this world. One says, 'this is old, therefore it is good.' The other says, 'This is new, therefore it is better'"
Can't recall where I got that from, but it seems appropriate. Many potential customers would grab a vehicle that provided high-tech toys at a (relatively) low cost, without bothering to work out how effective it is. Then they'd spend months, if not years, trying to convince critics that they made the right choice, and yes, it is wonderful, really!
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Karagin
03/05/02 12:27 AM
63.173.170.178
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DING DING DING! You win the prize!
That was part of the thinking that had me come with the idea of a cheap yet high tech wonder that is okay at best...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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SpudmanWP
03/05/02 12:28 AM
66.124.113.154
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I remember a mobile aitr defense gun M247 Sergeant York DIVAD that the politicians just loved... but did'nt work worth a damn... 6 billion down the tubes 
SpudmanWp
"The breakfast of champions is not cereal..... it's the competition.
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Karagin
03/05/02 12:31 AM
63.173.170.178
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There is that one and the Sheridan Light Tank...gotta love that one with it's 152mm gun/missile system that worked half the time...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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SpudmanWP
03/05/02 12:38 AM
66.124.113.154
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hehe Sheridan. You can't hurt me, I've got styrofoam armor
SpudmanWp
"The breakfast of champions is not cereal..... it's the competition.
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Karagin
12/08/06 12:50 AM
70.123.166.36
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I liked this one it got some good battles, so I am going bump it again...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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