Karagin
02/27/14 05:06 PM
70.118.139.48
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Oh no it's canon...and the whole idea of them having the time and resources both in materials and people etc..to keep all of the stuff hidden and in top working order etc...yeah but let's not beat a dead horse to death.
Reason why the IS has done a lot of things could fill pages of discussion.
Retry, what they are saying is Kerensky would not let them leave. He hunted down those that try to leave prior to their getting to the Pentagon worlds, so you may need to adjust things to fit better, BUT it's your alternate universe.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
02/27/14 05:40 PM
67.239.109.174
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"The drop off was not a mutiny. Think of it as a sort of backup site that the fleet could go tour things weren't going well that was never used."
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ghostrider
02/27/14 05:55 PM
24.30.128.72
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Alot of advances come from circumstances. I do not see that a single system would be able to come up with all the advancements of atleast 5 systems that was heavily populated and went thru a major war, while the colonies in the Kerensky cluster were there to help rebuild.
Just not enough people to do all the work and research at the same time.
Money and resources to just get started would be beyond them especially in the begining.
The fleet would not leave 2 billion people behind just because they decided they didn't want to go.
Maybe, and this is pushing it, maybe they would leave 10-20 thousand if they had to. Dropships just do not hold that many people.
This does not cover the hatreds that were rampant in the fleet as well. Nor does it cover leaving copies of all the data they had for the 'people that were home sick'. I do not see where scientists would want to be put off on a world without access to anything. Most get upset when they don't have their coffee ready, much less not have any at all.
Having access to resources is another issue. They would not have a large supply of things, and canibalizing what they did have, would soon make sure they had nothing left.
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Retry
02/27/14 07:05 PM
67.239.109.174
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With the exception of The Society tech, all the tech was home-grown due to the single planet being smart enough to not get blown
The Society tech was aquired when Crossroads gives some Societiers asylum which, while pissing off many clans and starting a small war, gave them access to some state-of-art technology such as Nova CEWS and iATMs.
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Karagin
02/27/14 07:14 PM
70.118.139.48
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And how would the Society nutjobs know where this colony was? You are forgetting that the Clans fought a civil war that was far more destructive then the 1st SW. And I don't see Nicky Kerensky allowing anything about a "lost" or misplaced group of SLDF techs and sciencist being left in any computer system or easily found. And so begs the question how out the Society refugees get there?
And were are the Protomechs?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
02/27/14 07:16 PM
24.30.128.72
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That really does not make logical sense. Having someone run off with their tech and only getting into a small war? All the clans would have lined up fighting trials of possession or grievence to get at the lowly freebirths.
Haven't heard of the Societiers, but that isn't surprising.
I would think the clans would have orbital bombarded the planet, then sent in ground forces to prevent stolen tech from leaving clan hands.
They would be dezgra.
Only thing they could look forward to is an ignoble end.
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Karagin
02/27/14 07:19 PM
70.118.139.48
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Good points Ghostrider.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
02/28/14 12:05 AM
67.239.109.174
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Protomechs are one technology not used due to their destructive tendancy on the user's sanity.
Well, if the society revolution occurs after 3098 when Crossroads is revealed to the world so to speak, then they seek Asylum immediately after their revolution proves unsuccessful.
If after then the society scientists are refugees who are still being seeked but thus far evaded the clan secret police or whatever and who flee to Crossroads after it's discovered, hoping the Clans won't trace them. In which case there would be much much less Society scientists seeking asylum because most are dead.
And those "nutjobs" sound like the sanest clanners that used to exist.
Speaking of nicholas, he didn't exactly see, to embrace Aleksandr's vision of a new Star League. On the contrary, the clans seemed to go the opposite route. If Nicholas's actions made such an intention clear, that would be motive to wipe coordinates to the backup planet AKA Crossroads. It's isolation would be the last chance he had to reunite the world under a new Star League.
Yeah it's a fantasy but what isn't in Battletech.
Why is it a small war? The defending side consists of a couple planets. The size of the conflict doesn't necessarily depend on the size of the largest party. The Vietnam War included the United States on one side, one of the biggest superpowers at the time other than the USSR(IIRC helped north vietnam), and that was originally called a "police action".
And the damn technology isn't stolen. Therefore that couldn't be a motive for the Clan's attack. It was developed independantly by the planet(and a few periphery territories).
Except for the HarJel, but that only happens after the war begins.
I don't believe saying "but it's small" is a solid excuse to say why it shouldn't be high-tech even though all the star-league technicians, engineers, scientists and such are already there to at least create a solid star-league tech level planet. IIRC, the Capellans were the most advanced IS power until everything got jumbled up in the jihad with all their fancy stealth armors. They are also one of the smallest major IS powers. The clans are smaller than the IS yet they are also more technologically advanced in weapons development.
Orbital bombardment, yes, that's a valid point. I'll have to come up with something additional. Perhaps another planet territory they have to get through first before hitting Crossroads, acting as a sort of chokepoint.
Though if you are right and the clans will be lining up and not attacking outright in force, that overall will be less of an issue.
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ghostrider
02/28/14 12:18 AM
24.30.128.72
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the dezgra Society ran off with clan technology, but it isn't stolen?
If the clans did not authorize the technology to be traded, how could it not be stolen?
That would be like the makers of the navies hornet just selling it on the open market to who ever has the money for it.
They don't. The U.S. government has to confirm those items can be sold to that entity.
I am very sure the clans would be even more strict.
Clan Diamond Shark might be more likely to sell the fully functioning units, but not the ability to make them, then any other clan would.
Hell, even the wolf clan is not as technologically advance as your crossroads are, and they live in the innersphere, where they have access to buying the 'new' upgrades.
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Retry
02/28/14 12:25 AM
67.239.109.174
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How is it stolen, the society made it and not the clans.
(EDIT:The society made the iATM and Nova CEWs and all that stuff, but the clan-spec weaponry otherwise was home-grown)
If anything the clans wouldn't want the tech because it was made by the dishonorable Society in the first place.
As I said, the technology is home grown, independently developed. I'm just too lazy to actually make different stats for the advanced weapons, and it wouldn't work in MM anyways.
Above paragraph makes your second one irrelevent, along with the third.
And the fourth just seems to be a complaint?
Edited by Retry (02/28/14 12:28 AM)
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ghostrider
02/28/14 02:01 AM
24.30.128.72
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Who provided the resources to make the tech?
Who paid for the tech?
As for the clans not using innersphere tech, most of it is inferior to the tech the clans have now.
I don't know who invented some of the tech used, so I can't give instances of innersphere tech the clans would use.
They use innersphere units, though alot of the time its for target practice. They tend to upgrade the things they are going to keep using.
It would also seem that items like the ecm used by the clans would be dishonorable, so they shouldn't have upgraded the research on it. I would think the anti missile system would be considered a cowards item, since it does not take skill to use it, and if you can't survive the hits, then you are inferior.
Trying to use canon items to show you how overreaching your crossroads ideas are, was to show you that there is no reasonable way a single system could keep up with the clans for their tech, as well as keep up with the innersphere for their new tech. Don't care wiether you had a war or not. The clans only lost production and time in there war. All their tech from starleague was saved by the colonies. They had more assets to put into research as well as need to get it done.
No conflict in the crossroads would mean they aren't pushed to get tech done. Also how many people can they have researching and filling in the military ranks at the same time?
The whole issue comes down to the number of people you could have vs how many of them could be used for research with the amount of resources availible. You can not get the same amount of research out of 2,000 scientists that you can get out of 2m scientist that are full funded, stocked and have access to each other. All with the same level of education.
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Karagin
02/28/14 06:34 AM
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The Society used Protomech almost in every military group they had, so they still want to use it. Retry go look at real history, everything the Germans worked on during WW2 was studied and many of things were used to improve or jump start a lot of tech advances after the war. The Clans would eventually use the tech and discovers that the Society came up with.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
02/28/14 06:35 AM
70.118.139.48
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What threat was there for this group of yours that pushed them so hard to go from SL tech to Clan tech?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
03/02/14 08:54 PM
24.30.128.72
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The best I can suggest to the argument of the crossroads is that bringing you campaign here then getting upset when others disagree with your outcome, is because alot of the people here have different ways of playing. The whole thing with the slammers is a good example.
I think its great you have your own alternative to battle tech, but brining it here and saying it is the way to play is going to get alot of negative feedback.
I am trying to keep an opened mind on this, but the basic issues is how far out of the main stream this is.
It is also up to the rest to not try to keep his OPINIONS out of the forums. I disagree with some of them, but this is not the CANON ONLY forums..
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Retry
03/02/14 08:59 PM
67.239.109.174
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The entire Crossroads thing was intended to be a footnote so you guys would figure "oh, it's not canon, better not hassle with the availability and other mixed tech issues". I didn't want an entire thread of dissection over it.
I mentioned it and never once said it is the way to play the game, I said specifically "I am using these for a series of skirmishes". Not once did I say "play it like this, it's the best way" or anything remotely like that.
Yes, it's far main stream, so I tried purposely to keep it vague and only a footnote. But then you guys insisted I delve in deeper to what it is, which I didn't wish to do so but complied anyways.
And now as the signs say, "You Are Here".
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