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Akirapryde2006
12/11/15 10:13 PM
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Quote:
ghostrider writes:
In almost every thing I have read about being in a cockpit, very few don't suggest the pilot is sweating their butts off in combat. A few suggest the pilot is about ready to pass out from things like dehydration and even being to hot.



Yes you are correct. Heat has been an issue with pilots since the dawn of Battlemechs. Heat can (and often) does play a very critical factor in any battletech mach up. Doesn't matter which two mechs are facing off, heat will play a factor within the mach. However an old saying from our games rings true. "Its all fun and games till you are on the heat scale."

Quote:
ghostrider writes:
They also suggest alot of warriors strip naked in a few to help deal with the heat.
I don't know why, but I find it unlikely that the heat stops building because the coolant system is maxed out. That would imply the coolant itself would be warmer then the air as it flows thru the vest.



I can think of two Solaris books where pilots have strip naked. It is also a clear failure of understanding how to deal with heat. By striping naked, you allow your skin to evaporate water (sweat) faster which leads to dehydration. In the army, we are trained not to remove clothing. But to keep our uniforms on.
BobTheZombieModerator
12/11/15 10:18 PM
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Quote:
ghostrider writes:

But as I said, that is novels, not the core rules.



But the novels are canon after all...
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ghostrider
12/11/15 11:26 PM
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The idea of the standard locust is why heat is not always a factor for both sides. Total of 5 heat for using the medium laser and running. Even one engine crit will not overheat it.

Now that I think of it, the neural helm doesn't seem to have it set up so you have cool air blowing on you. It looks like all wires, and not ducts. Wouldn't that help the pilot feel better?

But this does go back to the original thought. At what point on the heat scale would a normal pilot pass out or even die from the heat?
Or to a lesser extent, take damage? You take damage from any cockpit hit, such as an mg shot, but not from heat.

And novels are canon is just throwing lighter fluid on the fire. Cause a few raging fires with that one
ghostrider
12/12/15 11:37 PM
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damn internet connection. Lost the post, so try again...

Another thought came up with this concept.
The (canon) fluff for a demolisher says the crews need coolant suits to survive the use of the dual ac 20s. Not vests, but suits.
Yet vehicles are not supposed to be affected by heat from ballistic and missile weapons.
I find an older cockpit for mechs to be able to keep the pilot cool unrealistic. The mechs where the entire head assembly comes off in an ejection might be a better option, but even that is a little unlikely.

Now take an 8Q awesome. Before the sinks start pulling away the heat, a full volley of ppcs are 30 heat, over double of the demolishers main guns. Run the scale up firing like crazy, and say you are sitting at 20 heat. Another volley puts it at 50 before the sinks do their job.
At what point would a pilot die from the heat?

And the scary thing about this is... The demolisher is not the worse offender about heat build up in a vehicle.
The lrm carrier does 18 heat from the 3 lrm 20 packs it has, while the srm carrier builds 24 heat per turn. (correction. The srm carrier builds 40 points of heat, not 24. 10 launchers at 4 points each. I'm an idiot some times.)
And last I knew, vehicles did not build heat from movement even with a fusion engine in it.


Edited by ghostrider (12/12/15 11:40 PM)
Drasnighta
12/13/15 12:07 PM
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IN the case of the demolisher, Its probably physical proximity to the ignition chambers.

The thing itself is boxy enough that ITS performance doesn't suffer - but the chambers themselves get almost red hot from continual firing.
CEO Heretic BattleMechs.
Drasnighta
12/13/15 12:07 PM
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What's okay for the machine may not be good for the meat.
CEO Heretic BattleMechs.
ghostrider
12/22/15 12:49 PM
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The fact of capital missiles were not lost, but was not built leads me to ask a question, and I am sure the answer is because the developers made a mistake and didn't want to admit they made a mistake with it.

Why did they stop producing the missiles?
Just because there were no war ships does not mean they would have stopped using them.
The Galax jump ship factories would be a great place to have them still working. Take out any ships invading or raiding the factories in space.
Kathil is another one like that. Capella with its functioning factories would be another.

Cost being the reason?
Why does that sound wrong? That would be like saying a cruise missile is too expensive, so we should not build them. What you use them for might make it stupid, ie blow up a single hut in the middle of no where vs taking out an hq building for the enemy.
I just do not see how the cost would cause the states to think wiping out enemy drops ships BEFORE they damage your irreplaceable factories is not how you do things.

If you the lack of techs is pronounced, you would use what ever you had to protect things like this. And that isn't even suggesting they would have launchers around the capital worlds and places like Defiance. I doubt they were concerned about cost when it comes to defending their plants. Even outside the militaries abilities.
ghostrider
12/29/15 01:52 AM
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The notion that a torso mounted cockpit is safer then a head mounted one was brought up in another thread, and to prevent thread jacking I figured to ask here.

Is it really?
A roll of 12 to hit, is the main way to hit the head of the mech, while 2 and 7 are center torso if straight on. And the 2 could very well mean death from something like a single point of damage.
This is not adding in shots from above, or punches, which changes this dramatically.

It has more armor, sometimes. A rear shot has less the head armor normally has. It might just be me, which is why I am asking others if this is true.

Is the torso safer?
Is the head safer?
Akirapryde2006
12/30/15 02:41 AM
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To hit the head on the D6 system (2nd Edition) you have to role a pair of sixes. which gives you a 36 to 1 odds of scoring a head hit which is 1/36 Probability or right around 3% of getting a head hit.

To hit the center torso, you have to score a seven between two dice.That is six total combinations of scoring a hit on the center torso. or 36 to 6 odds. 1/6 Probability or right around 17% chance of getting a torso hit during any given roll.

If you don't want to look at the odds of hitting the two different locations. You can look at the other factors which makes the Center Torso a deadly location for the cockpit.

What other factors?

The path of damage transfer. During the course of battle, damage will transfer from the outer limbs in to the center torso. This only grows the odds against the center torso.

So while yes a head hit can be devastating, the odds are in your favor that the head wont be hit during the course of a battle.

Akirapryde
ghostrider
02/16/16 04:11 AM
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Seeing the urbie post made me realize another stupid hole in the game. The lb10x cannon is a ton lighter then the standard ac 10 for the inner sphere model. Better range, and to hit with the cluster rounds, yet lighter, and can use the solid slug rounds.

With everything dealing with the star league tech weapons being heavier or bulkier or both, This seems completely stupid.
This is one of those things that the normal ac 10 should be completely dead.
Some will say cost if the thing that keeps it there, but just as the clans removed the old tech from their units produced after their tech advanced, so should the ac 10 be dead. Use either round without an issue. Lighter as well.
Lighter things are more bulky or deal less damage.

Was this a ploy to get people to use the ac 10 series?
KamikazeJohnson
02/16/16 02:14 PM
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Quote:
ghostrider writes:

Seeing the urbie post made me realize another stupid hole in the game. The lb10x cannon is a ton lighter then the standard ac 10 for the inner sphere model. Better range, and to hit with the cluster rounds, yet lighter, and can use the solid slug rounds.

With everything dealing with the star league tech weapons being heavier or bulkier or both, This seems completely stupid.
This is one of those things that the normal ac 10 should be completely dead.
Some will say cost if the thing that keeps it there, but just as the clans removed the old tech from their units produced after their tech advanced, so should the ac 10 be dead. Use either round without an issue. Lighter as well.
Lighter things are more bulky or deal less damage.

Was this a ploy to get people to use the ac 10 series?



I don't recall if the old TRO:2750 included the LB 10-X as Star League tech, but the TRO:3050 had the LB 10-X and the UAC/5 as the only upgrade IS autocannons. The intention was clearly to have the LB 10-X superior to the AC/10 in every way, but for some reason all the other LB-X classes were all bulkier than their Standard counterparts, which is inconsistent. My opinion? They should have allowed the Standard AC to become obsolete, used only in existing units or cheap assembly units (eg tanks).
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
ghostrider
02/16/16 06:08 PM
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The 2750 had the lb 10-x cannon with the ultra 5 cannon.
The other cannons (which came after the 2750 book) were heavier in most cases as well.

Thinking about it now, what is the actual difference in the lbx that isn't in standard. And don't say the cluster shot, as that is specialize ammo, not something completely different. Like the lrm variant ammunitions.
I would think they should have been able to modify the normal cannons breach and loading systems to fit the new ammunition and not have to deal with a whole new cannon set.
Using a shot gun as the base, any round that would fit in it should fire properly, like the assault slugs for a shotgun does. Otherwise, that should mean a new ammunition heading of lbx solid shot. This should mean even more things not working in other weapons.
Oversight, or just trying to keep it simple?
ghostrider
02/19/16 03:50 AM
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The idea of what is considered a good supply of ammunition came up again in another thread. Which makes me wonder how people feel about this at times.
the ac 5 has 20 rounds per ton.
the ac 10 had 10 rounds per ton.

One ton seems to be fine for the 10, but some how have two 5's running of a single ton seems inadequate.
Is it just me, or does anyone else think this seems odd?
Akalabeth
02/19/16 07:11 PM
64.251.81.66

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10 rounds is enough for most games. Tabletop games anyway. Megamek is another thing. One may need more ammunition if the battle is smaller (and thus more turns can take place)

Quote:
KamikazeJohnson writes:

I don't recall if the old TRO:2750 included the LB 10-X as Star League tech, but the TRO:3050 had the LB 10-X and the UAC/5 as the only upgrade IS autocannons. The intention was clearly to have the LB 10-X superior to the AC/10 in every way, but for some reason all the other LB-X classes were all bulkier than their Standard counterparts, which is inconsistent. My opinion? They should have allowed the Standard AC to become obsolete, used only in existing units or cheap assembly units (eg tanks).



It's that way by design. 2750/3050 was the one time where clearly superior technology was introduced.

And since then, Catalyst/FanPro/FASA whoever have deliberately created new technology which is not superior, but rather just a different option. They've expanded technology laterally, keeping old mechs and technology viable. That's why "Improved Heavy Lasers" just have a different problem. Why "Advanced Tactical Missiles" are inferior to clan LRMs in many ways.


In fact the only thing they've really keen to get rid of regularly is Land Air Mechs, which even when they're brought back are destroyed to the last. Meanwhile a 600 old design gets updated, again, that's why the Warhammer has about 23 variants and the Warhammer IIC has 13 or so of its own. would rather more stuff was just let to die, but doesn't seem to be in the cards.


Edited by Akalabeth (02/19/16 07:21 PM)
Karagin
02/19/16 09:15 PM
61.40.222.5

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See that is the problem, too many fans play BT like they do other games, run in and smash things. Battletech is not that kind of game. Megamek is a bad example to keep citing. It is NOT Battletech.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Karagin
02/19/16 09:21 PM
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The idea of a design going out of use is a good point, BUT many nations today still use designs from WW2 in their military and simply upgrade them or don't since the cost is too much. Same would be found in the Inner Sphere where money is not going to be spent just to get the cool toys, again another in game thing vs players wanting the new toys.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Akalabeth
02/19/16 09:39 PM
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I don't play Megamek and don't consider it tabletop battletech but I know some people will make the argument that it's an example.

As for designs, I've heard that argument before and I think that any WW2 gear still in service is the outlier not the norm. Whereas in Battletech, it IS the norm. Think about how many designs have come and gone in the years since WW2. Particularly in the field of jet planes for example. We've gone from one jet, the ME-262, how many different models? And how many of those are out of service, never to be revived?

Tanks tend to stick around longer and are perhaps more analogous to mechs, but looking at the British they had the Centurion, the Chieften, the Challenger and now the Challenger II. That's not counting the many home-grown tanks from WW2 which were taken out of service: Vickers Light, Matilda I and II, Valentine, Churchill, A9, A10, A13, Crusader, Cromwell, Challenger, Tetrarch

I'm actually cool with mechs like the original 16 from both the inner sphere and clans being perpetuated throughout the timeline, but other designs should probably go the way of the dodo.
Karagin
02/20/16 01:47 AM
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Still the jet fighter has not fully replaced piston engines for use by military powers, aircraft like Douglas Skyraider were is use during the Vietnam War as close air support for infantry and marine units, and even today a piston engine C-130 gunship still does the same thing and yes the A10 is there but it is not a fighter but a ground attack aircraft. So the idea that the jet has become so different from the Me262 is not saying much for the example, refined yes, but changed no.

Actually many had gone the way of the dodo till the equally silly and poorly written Jihad/Dark Age time line/story line came out. Now we see all of the old oddities coming back cause well, some are cool, and others to fill in the gaps. Would any of the original mechs fair well today? No, most wouldn't even hold their own against 3025 tech base, but that they are there and still is use actually says more about the state of interstellar travel and technology differences in the known regions of space in the BT universe then anything about the mechs themselves.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
ghostrider
02/20/16 02:39 AM
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Tech and costs seem to keep things from wwII around. A shot from an old carbine will still kill you, though you may not pump out 1000 rounds a second. And the main thing with tank upgrades hasn't be the frame, but engines and armor. I want to say the older tanks were larger then todays tanks, but I am not sure on this one.

The statement of the clans having so many variants of star league mechs seems to counter their waste policy. It would be easier to make it an omni mech, then be so wasteful as permanently mounting new weapons. I understand they change since they first came out, but without some real excuse like manufacturers making a different design of ppc then the next, there is no real excuse for it. Well atleast for the clans.

Back to the tech thing. Alot of countries do not have the advanced armors, and a good example of using what you have is the cavalry the polish used in the beginning stages of that same war. It was what they had. And some countries seem to rely on others selling them the weapons to boot. How many countries are buying the United States old weapons of war? That is why the older weapons are still used. Most would prefer the new abrams over the sherman or what ever is being sold, but almost any tank is better then nothing.

But i do agree that the IS would stop buying the older units as businesses go out of business. Retooling to make the parts for someone elses (insert whatever you want) just isn't worth it as normal prices. Some of the older model cars cost so much because parts have to be manufactured, since finding them is almost impossible. And eventually the original parts runs out, with newer designs making running older parts unlike. Built in obsolidity I believe is the term. Try finding a hand crank to a 1910 car or earlier. You tend to pay alot more or have to build it from scratch. That should be why some mechs should die off. Engines being built for just one unit would probably go up in price
Karagin
02/20/16 05:57 AM
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Question now becomes what about those planets that in between the known star systems, like the ones that are 10 light years from say New Avalon or 5 light years? Are they all settled and under control of the Fed-Suns? Or what about the ones open space regions that no one totally claims? How many have thriving or semi-thriving populations? What tech level are they at? An AFV that was last seen in use in the Inner Sphere during the early days of the Age of War, may still be the height of advanced tech for planet Fillinaname and would be laughed at by even the weakest power found in the Inner Sphere.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
ghostrider
02/20/16 11:42 AM
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Depends on other factors. Something that close to New Avalon would have high tech garrisons as they are great staging areas for hitting New Avalon itself, but that isn't the point. The whole back waters world issues is. They would use what even they had since something is better then nothing. Even as a decoy, it would allow their militia infantry time to do something, even if it is nothing more then get people to the safety bunker.

If they have parked the drop ship they came in on, does that count for tech level? I would think not, as tech level seems more based on what they can make, not use, or have. Which might be something that could confuse people. Being in the midevil ages for what can be made, does not mean they don't have comms and other things, though that seems to be implied when talking about tech. Even having a worker mech, may not make the colony 'advanced'. Yet they could still use them for construction, farming, logging and such.

And this does has not touched the collector. The rich or those that have access to old units, could very well collect them and refurbish them. They might still be around.
But with that said, manufacturing new ones is the key here. As the clans did, the inner sphere should follow. Why build the old stuff, if you have a better newer model around? Besides a collector, who would really buy a model T car, when for the same price you could get a brand new car, and be able to get parts for it cheaply?

The game makes it sound like there were really no independent planets within the borders of the major states. Then a few stated like the one the grey death defended against the combine, Northwind, Outreach, and the chaos march when they were first taken, though that was more rebellious worlds still resisting being part of fedcom.
So the older tech units would still be there. I just don't see why the newer books would keep mentioning them as they should die off, unless they want to put it under classic units, or forgotten units.

I am still wanting to see the ideas of things like a locust standard load out during the star league, and the 3025 one should not be it. The copout of cost is bull. It would have advanced tech, especially if it was a star league or hemegony used unit. The story line makes you think they stuck in what ever they could to keep the mechs being used. Like the highlander. Without the high tech, how would the load out look on that? Or say the thug? I would think the locust would have had an erml at the least, with some extra weapons in the arms to cover the 3 ports instead of the 1 mg in each arm.
Akalabeth
02/20/16 04:59 PM
108.180.183.124

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Eh, I don't really buy it to be honest. The political situation of Battletech and the real world are not analogous. There are not really many tiers of technology along political lines, there's simply the clans, the successor states and the periphery. And among those powers, alliances are few, far and in-between. So there's little reason or opportunity to supply another state with older technology.

Even the Davions didn't sell old machines but allegedly stock piled them, and then brought them out again to rebuild their forces after the civil war. They didn't sell them to Outworlds Alliance or the Marion Hegemony. Not to get political but if say the Periphery was its own sphere, and if the Successor states were each supporting different states as counters to each others power, like Britain supported the Ottomans against the Russians in the victorian era, it would make more sense but the states themselves have been just barely scrapping by for a hundred years and the Periphery even less so. After they upgraded their old machines would they build additional units of the same make? If that's all the factory has been producing sure, but once the factory switches to a newer machine in 3050, 55 or 60 would they then switch back to an older mech? Or would that discontinued mech fade away?

I don't know how many people have actually played Battletech, but when you have a game, mechs get irrevocably destroyed all the time. Particularly in Level 1 without CASE. The idea that mechs have even been passed down, generation to generation is a bit hard to believe, unless that mech is like the Griffins on Tharkad and doesn't see any action. War is like a meat grinder, or in this case, a myomer grinder and once units go in, many don't come out. And if they don't come out they disappear unless they get replaced.

I just don't think that anyone has even had an opportunity to sell old machines to anyone else. Everyone was as I say just scraping by for a hundred years and then when they finally started to improve the clans came in and tore everyone down, so they were immediately at war, building new machines to replace old ones. Davion was supporting Steiner, Kurita was fighting for themselves, Liao had been on life support since the 4SW, and House Marik became the Inner Sphere's arms dealer supplying the front lines with new machines. At what point was anyone comfortable enough to say "our army is where it needs to be, let's start replacing old models and sell them to someone else"?


Edited by Akalabeth (02/20/16 05:20 PM)
ghostrider
02/20/16 06:07 PM
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According to the canon sources, both davion and kurita sold equipment to the outworlds alliance. It stated that the outworlds had to walk a fine line to buying such items from both to avoid angering either side. And the st. ives compact bought from the fedcom while it was still in effect, though it was not really considered an alliance so much as a friendly nation.
But the information about the U.S. settling items to others, was not supposed to be saying the innersphere does, but more along the lines of why our world still has countries using the old WWII surplus.

All houses were building for their own armies, though Marik was supplying upgrade kits more then units, or so I was lead to believe. For some, I can see them handing down their mechs from generation to generation. Simple garrison duty that very rarely saw action, with maybe pirates being the main opponent. I doubt there would be a whole company being passed down by one family, without them being a duke or something, but I can see one unit that is well kept. Most don't play with it, but the canon lines suggest the fighting sides to sell the salvaged materials back to the losers.
It would seem stupid, but given a specific raid, you don't have the space to load up tons of salvage, so selling it back would be better then just leaving it in the fields as you lift off. Not all raids have the time to take salvage anyways. Same with pilots. Ransom does happen.

I do agree a full upgrade of an army is not possible in a short period of time, but as units are replaced by loses, the newer equipment would replace the older stuff. Even doing the elites first, and handing down their units to lesser regiments would still happen.
As I said before, some units stopped being made because the lostech situation. The thorn is a good example, though it could have been done without the advanced tech. They just didn't change it over. Yet other mechs were. This is why I don't think the developers had any ideas of how the 16 original mechs would have been made in the star league time when they started with the 'lostech' materials. The lawsuit shut down alot of that as well, so I will cut them a little slack. And that does not consider comstars information base. Why would they use innersphere models once the star league tech started coming out instead of the designs they had from the star league? Hell alot of the newer mechs are based on the 'old' league models. Now that you have the league tech, why not use the league designs in their original forms?
KamikazeJohnson
02/20/16 09:49 PM
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Quote:
ghostrider writes:

According to the canon sources, both davion and kurita sold equipment to the outworlds alliance. It stated that the outworlds had to walk a fine line to buying such items from both to avoid angering either side. And the st. ives compact bought from the fedcom while it was still in effect, though it was not really considered an alliance so much as a friendly nation.
But the information about the U.S. settling items to others, was not supposed to be saying the innersphere does, but more along the lines of why our world still has countries using the old WWII surplus.

All houses were building for their own armies, though Marik was supplying upgrade kits more then units, or so I was lead to believe. For some, I can see them handing down their mechs from generation to generation. Simple garrison duty that very rarely saw action, with maybe pirates being the main opponent. I doubt there would be a whole company being passed down by one family, without them being a duke or something, but I can see one unit that is well kept. Most don't play with it, but the canon lines suggest the fighting sides to sell the salvaged materials back to the losers.
It would seem stupid, but given a specific raid, you don't have the space to load up tons of salvage, so selling it back would be better then just leaving it in the fields as you lift off. Not all raids have the time to take salvage anyways. Same with pilots. Ransom does happen.

I do agree a full upgrade of an army is not possible in a short period of time, but as units are replaced by loses, the newer equipment would replace the older stuff. Even doing the elites first, and handing down their units to lesser regiments would still happen.
As I said before, some units stopped being made because the lostech situation. The thorn is a good example, though it could have been done without the advanced tech. They just didn't change it over. Yet other mechs were. This is why I don't think the developers had any ideas of how the 16 original mechs would have been made in the star league time when they started with the 'lostech' materials. The lawsuit shut down alot of that as well, so I will cut them a little slack. And that does not consider comstars information base. Why would they use innersphere models once the star league tech started coming out instead of the designs they had from the star league? Hell alot of the newer mechs are based on the 'old' league models. Now that you have the league tech, why not use the league designs in their original forms?



I would imagine that most of the actual battles would have been far less destructive than the way we play BattleTech...if you're reponsible for a Company of machines, each one worth more than the annual GDP of most planets, you're going to be pretty reluctant to commit to a Do-or-Die action without a pretty good chance of success. Most battles would consist of scouting, a quick exchange of fire, and then one side or the other withdrawing. For example, a 'Mech with internal CT damage would likely disengage rather than risk being destroyed. Tanks and infantry would frequently be sacrificed to allow the valuable 'Mechs to limp away. Light and Medium 'Mechs would die to cover the retreat of an Assault 'Mech. Pursuit and Hunter-Killer lances would specialize in chasing down and disabling retreating enemies.

By contrast, what happens on the board? A badly damaged Heavy throws itself into the thick of things, letting its heat skyrocket as it tries to do as much damage as possible before dying.

Anyway, on the subject of "inherited" 'Mechs, etc...during a time period between Succession Wars when most battles are raids, these could happen with very little Total Loss...most damage being repairable or salvageable. There would be some inevitable attrition, but even the winners would attempt to disable rather than destroy so the 'Mechs can be captured and put into service. IIRC, a lot of the fluff in the early TROs talk about different houses gaining certain designs by capturing them in battle. A 'Mech could conceivably last through many battles, even being disabled in battle as long as the remains can be recovered and repaired.

In a universe where the most important thing is preserving your ability to make war, pitched battles to total annihilation would be the exception rather than the rule.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
ghostrider
02/21/16 02:25 AM
98.150.102.177

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The idea of something other then total destruction of forces was brought up before, but the lack of guidelines for them seems to keep the battles to destroy or be destroyed.
I want to say more tales of the black widow actually had a random roll for each side in one of the campaigns that dealt with this very thing. It was possible one side was on recon, while the other was on a search and destroy. The side that won, was the one that could complete it's mission, while denying the other their victory conditions. They even had rules in there that dealt with damage. A unit had to head towards their edge of the map if they took so much damage or was going internal. Another mission was search and rescue. One mech had to remain still in a hex for 3 turns or something like that.
It was interesting how they did it, and it would be something they should put in a normal rule book.

Granted copyrights might make that harder to do then just saying it, but I think it would give players more chance to strut their stuff doing real missions, not just destroy anything that moves.
There was some fluff about 2 sides sent to shut down a nuke reactor, and they had so many turns to destroy the enemy to do so. Both sides had retreated 4 minutes after the call to retreat was given. Neither side knew what the other was up to, and the reactor melted down. I can't remember if it was players story, or something in another adventure pack. But something like that would give players extra motivation to get the mission done.

Now one thing about do or die. If you are defending, you tend to commit that act as the enemy normally is a hated one, though it also depends on if you are doing a holding action or just harrassing the enemy.
But I do agree games tend to run the complete destruction of the enemy.
(Imagine. Ransoming an enemies mech back to them for c-bills. What a joke)
Karagin
02/21/16 06:44 AM
61.40.222.5

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Okay so the Davions didn't sell stuff, but others did, as did and still do the manufacturers themselves. Old weapons and machines may not bring high dollar value in the Inner Sphere but a working or semi working 3025 tech Shadow Hawk or Wasp or J Edgar tank would bring decent money from on of the back water worlds or a merc unit needing to rebuild and who is to say a greedy Davion official didn't sell the stock pile Enforcers he was suppose to keep intact etc...
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
ghostrider
02/21/16 01:22 PM
98.150.102.177

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actually, the davions did sell stuff. Even the canon sources say they sold to mercs. And since they used them often, it would make sense to keep them stocked, or at least under their control.

I would think Kurita would be the least likely to sell to others, except to form some sort of buffer zone, and the outworlds alliance would have been. I would suggest Liao would be another less likely to sell, but I want to say they were selling more to keep money flowing into the confederation. But I am not sure of this.

But Karagin brings up a good point. There are so many tales of quartermasters selling items to others for some quick money. More then a few stories tell of stockpiles being destroyed, only to find they were sold to someone else, and reported destroyed. And the official, not just davion, could very well more the stocks to a private location so they could form their own unit, or have a stash that even their own government didn't know about. Which could very well be HOW they are able to keep some machines in excellent conditions.
The thing I dislike about some stories is finding units from league time that have been lost for so long, yet they always seem ready to just jump in and run them. Anyone that has had a car sit for some time, knows the fuel turns to varnish. So cleaning the fuel system would be needed, as well as any sort of seals, even having to clean up contacts and such for electronics, yet you never read about that. Which also makes you wonder about caches. Some of the items were so unique, yet nothing needed to be replaced? But this is another story.
Akalabeth
02/22/16 04:04 AM
108.180.183.124

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It's not about how people play the game, it's about how the game plays. How many mechs in 3025 have nothing but ammunition in a side torso. How many have ammunition in the centre torso? 18 damage to a MAD-3Rs LT will result in it's total destruction 41% of the time.

Any single hit on a Crusader or a Thunderbolt will destroy it 0.3% of the time. Hit it with a full SRM-6 pack for example and it will have a 1.8% chance of being completely destroyed. Hit a Crusader on the right or left side with a full SRM-6 pack and it will have a 7% chance of being destroyed assuming there are enough rounds left in it's LRM-15 bin.

Hit both racks on the side of a Crusader with an average 8 missiles and it will be annihilated 9.2% of the time.

This is all with a completely pristine mech looking at the odds with a through-armour critical (roll of 2). Once you're through the armour, the chances of getting an ammunition crit increase dramatically. Though to be fair, for a mech like the Crusader you may by that time be nearly out of ammunition in at least one side torso.

Similarly, any 10 point hit on a lightly armoured mech like a Shadowhawk 2D will destroy it 5% of the time

How many games in 3025 have you had where you lost a mech the first round? I remember my first tournament playing Battletech, I had a Catapult C3 my opponent had an Awesome 8Q. He hit me twice, same side torso, boom. One turn, one mech gone, one battle lost.

Either way I don't think the math really supports perpetual warfare. Remember that an ammunition explosion will destroy a unit utterly. Zero salvage.
ghostrider
03/22/16 03:41 PM
66.74.61.223

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Another question came up and I would like input.

Does the ams work against capital missiles?
For some reason, I would think it shouldn't, but don't have the rules.

The though for using drones to intercept capital missiles came to mind with this one.
Or even anti missile missiles if you want to go that route.
ghostrider
03/28/16 08:21 PM
66.74.61.223

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The statement a fighters exhaust screws up armor on ships.
Do they have any rules that goes along with this?
Like damage done.
If it is just inside the ship, or can a ship buzz another one and use it's fusion drives to melt armor off another ship?

The thought of a light fighter doing more damage torching a ship with it's thrust comes to mind, verse some of the weapons fire.
And I do consider this method extreme.

And while I think about it, does over thrust do more damage?
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