ghostrider
08/19/15 05:13 PM
76.89.121.69
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Gonna start this thread to avoid jacking the archer IIC thread anymore.
The idea that the equipment the clans make isn't made in the innersphere is crap. As pointed out, 2 houses have clans that are part of them as well as having the time and resources to actually research it.
A point that just came to mind is repairing some of those 'magic' items. There is nothing in the rules that stated damage to the launcher is always the feeding mechanism, though some would say a failed roll would mean the actual 'magic' metal of the launcher was hit this time. Since clan launchers are half weight, there is something there that allows this.
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Cray
08/19/15 06:08 PM
50.88.145.42
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MaxTech noted years ago (IRL) that the Houses are making Clan gear, but it was an arduous process - like hoping the 1930s could build a 1980s computer chip. It was easier and cheaper to buy gear from the Clans.
By the 3070s, the Houses were getting a bit further along in production of Clan gear. Examples of attempts of industrial production of Clan gear are found in books like XTRO:Free Worlds League.
I believe by the 3130s, production was much more common.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
08/19/15 09:22 PM
70.118.139.48
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SO in the 31st Century and the 32nd Century the idea that mass producing something stops cause the prototype is to expensive, I guess Henry Ford must have had some alien help with the hole Assembly Line approach to things in the 30s.
More common Cray or limited to the ROTS mainly?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Akirapryde2006
08/19/15 09:48 PM
71.100.132.249
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I could easily counter by pointing out how the USSR at the end of WWII would reverse engineer US technology and build it.
I offer the B-29 and the Tupolev Tu-4 as evidence.
Sorry but the idea that the Inner Sphere couldn't reverse engineer Clan tech is just stupid.
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RockJock
08/19/15 11:03 PM
70.173.233.84
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What would be a "fair" price for the more common Clan weapons in the Dark Ages? A Clan ERPPC being what, 3 times the cost (900,000 C Bills) if built by the IS? I hate the huge width of logistics needed in the modern era. Half the IS weapons would become very rare if a Clan model was available off the shelf, even if a more expensive option. Take a Marauder, and build it with Clan weapons, but everything else being Star League era IS components. You can get a very durable 4/6 mech for 7-8 mil, add another say 2 mil for the "extra" cost on the Clan weapons and you are in the 9-10 mil range. Compare this to say a Gotterdammerung from 3150 at 12.9 mil. In this comparison the Lyran mech is very durable with Compact components and a Torso cockpit (but I think no CASE) where my quickie Marauder has a standard engine and cockpit, ECM, and AMS to increase the durability. Firepower is definitely on the side of the Maruader in this one. To be fair, I also added a IS TC which steps away from my basic equipment guide, but not too terribly far.
BattleMech Technical Readout
Type/Model: Marauder Prototype
Tech: Mixed Tech / 3025
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 3, Standard design
Mass: 75 tons
Chassis: GM Marauder Endo Steel (IS)
Power Plant: 300 Vlar Fusion (IS)
Walking Speed: 43.2 km/h
Maximum Speed: 64.8 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type: Valiant Lamellor Standard
Armament:
3 ER Large Lasers (C)
2 Medium Pulse Lasers (C)
1 Anti-Missile System(IS)
1 Guardian ECM(IS)
Manufacturer: General Motors
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: Dalban Micronics
Targeting & Tracking System: Dalban HiRez
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Marauder Prototype
Mass: 75 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 114 pts Endo Steel (IS) 14 4.00
(Endo Steel Loc: 1 HD, 3 LA, 3 RA, 2 LT, 1 RT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
Engine: 300 Fusion 6 19.00
Walking MP: 4
Running MP: 6
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 18 Double (IS) [36] 18 8.00
(Heat Sink Loc: 1 LA, 1 RA, 2 LT, 2 RT)
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt.: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA R: Sh+UA+LA 14 .00
Armor Factor: 231 (IS) 0 14.50
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 23 34
Center Torso (Rear): 12
L/R Side Torso: 16 24/24
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 8/8
L/R Arm: 12 24/24
L/R Leg: 16 32/32
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 ER Large Laser (C) RA 12 1 4.00
1 Medium Pulse Laser (C) RA 4 1 2.00
1 ER Large Laser (C) LA 12 1 4.00
1 Medium Pulse Laser (C) LA 4 1 2.00
1 ER Large Laser (C) RT 12 1 4.00
1 Anti-Missile System (ILT 1 12 2 1.50
(Ammo Locations: 1 LT)
1 Guardian ECM (IS) CT 0 2 1.50
1 Targeting Computer (ISRT 4 4.00
CASE Equipment: (IS) LT 1 .50
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 45 75 75.00
Crits & Tons Left: 3 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 7,892,500 C-Bills
Battle Value 2: 2,427 (old BV = 2,055)
Cost per BV2: 3,251.96
Weapon Value: 4,053 / 4,053 (Ratio = 1.67 / 1.67)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 36; MRDmg = 29; LRDmg = 19
BattleForce2: MP: 4, Armor/Structure: 6/6
Damage PB/M/L: 5/4/3, Overheat: 1
Class: MH; Point Value: 24
Specials: ecm
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Karagin
08/19/15 11:20 PM
70.118.139.48
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Quote:
Akirapryde2006 writes:
I could easily counter by pointing out how the USSR at the end of WWII would reverse engineer US technology and build it.
I offer the B-29 and the Tupolev Tu-4 as evidence.
Sorry but the idea that the Inner Sphere couldn't reverse engineer Clan tech is just stupid.
The Germans did it with the Bazooka as well. So yeah the reasonings for the Inner Sphere have always been a bit silly as to why they can't build things but hey let's build 10 plus versions of the lasers and 5 versions of the autocannons.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/19/15 11:21 PM
70.118.139.48
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Fair price for IS made Clan copies...I would say take a real world example all the stuff China has copied from Russia or the US weapons and tech and go from there as a baseline.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
08/20/15 01:45 AM
76.89.121.69
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Korea and a few other countries have taken our tech and put U.S businesses out of business. Tv's, computers, and even things like nuclear weapons.. Only thing stopping north korea from mass producing them in the uranium.
But since the successor house have SOOOOOO many resources available to them, the cost factor becomes the stuff I leave in the toilet.
How much does it cost to make a new jumbo jet? Then mass producing it drops that price dramatically.
The cost of clan weapons preventing mass production is against all known marketing practices in the world today.
And if you want to really think about this, Comstar would have done this to equip their stuff, with WOB being likely to do so as well.
They have the tech and research workers to make this more then a reality. Cheaper to get it from the clans right after the invasion. Sure. 50 to 100 years afterwards? I very much doubt it.
And this isn't just about weapons tech. Double heat sinks would be a MAJOR item to mass produce, dropping the prices dramatically. Why would you rely on the enemy selling you items? Really.
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Karagin
08/20/15 06:27 AM
70.118.139.48
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Clearly none of this applies to how the Inner Sphere operates, since they can't reverse engineer weapons technology, but yet can figure out to copy the modular connections and such to make Omnimechs and can figure out how to make battlearmor suites etc...
Things like HarJel, sure that might be only aviable to the Clans since it comes from a few of their worlds, but the rest of the stuff, yeah they should have been able to copy or use to come up with better or some times worse items. I have read that the Ford Focus was copied by China to include some flaws, yet China claims differently. Also have read reports of folks buying Apple Phones in Korea and or Hong Kong, coming back to the states, phone has issues and going to the Apple store etc...and finding out they bought a clone/forgery phone and Apple won't fix it etc...and the same report said that in some cases the clone phone had better parts and software in it then an original Apple Phone, but meanwhile in the Inner Sphere they can't do this kind of stuff without it taking butt (butt being how they once measured wine caskets you can Google it) load of money, and craftsmen several months by hand to make a single copy of Clan weapon.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
08/20/15 11:09 AM
76.89.121.69
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Well the rolls royce is supposed to be all hand crafted. At the other end of the spectrum, you have things like the geo models. One is hand made. The other is pure production line. They both do the same job, though name and luxury are the big difference. If you want a closer comparison, use a porshe or ferrari. The rolls is still about 5 times the cost.
And honestly, if it was that easy to get the parts, why does anyone use the old crap produced by the Innersphere? Techs have issues dealing with it, is what they used to keep the IS from using alot of it. Ok. I could see that when the clans first invaded. But with 100 years, you would figure training courses would have taken care of that. Remember, bondsmen normally get stuck helping the techs work on mechs. How many are captured then freed in raids. You are telling me, none of them learned a thing?
Or captured clan techs never said anything about how to work in things? Especially when you are using them to train your people?
They have honor as well, and are more likely to be honest with teaching you how to fix the equipment. Or did. The newer story line has alot of the honor road being corrupted.
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Cray
08/20/15 06:33 PM
50.88.145.42
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Quote:
Karagin writes:
SO in the 31st Century and the 32nd Century the idea that mass producing something stops cause the prototype is to expensive,
There's plenty of mass production in the Inner Sphere. After all, there are trillions of people in it and they need homes, food, transport, clothing, etc.
What's expensive and time consuming to build are some weapons from a more advanced civilization. It took a long time to iron out the manufacturing processes. But, yes, the Inner Sphere eventually mass produced them.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
08/20/15 06:37 PM
70.118.139.48
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Really? Then why they not arming everything with Clan tech then Cray? Why do we still see them using older tech? I don't see a single house or state converting fully to Clan tech weapons, so do they truly mass produce them or not? Cause it's looking like they don't.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Edited by Karagin (08/20/15 07:56 PM)
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Cray
08/20/15 06:49 PM
50.88.145.42
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Quote:
Akirapryde2006 writes:
Sorry but the idea that the Inner Sphere couldn't reverse engineer Clan tech is just stupid.
The Inner Sphere could and did reverse engineer Clan technology, but your B-29 analogy didn't capture the difference. In 3050, most of the Inner Sphere had 22nd to 24th Century technology, with a few planets running out trickles of newly recovered 27th and 28th Century technology. The Clans arrived with technology 3 centuries more advanced than that.
A better example might be to time-warp a crewless B-2 bomber into 1945 Rooskie hands. The 1945 Rooskies have no understanding of the shape and what's important about it, no idea of the importance of electrical continuity across surfaces, no idea of what a microprocessor is, no idea of transistors, no understanding of the alloying choices in the engine, no way to duplicate the alloying there, no clue how to duplicate the composite resins or carbon fibers - all those things were conceptualized, researched, developed, and published after 1945, and all of those sit on mountains of industry that were also invented after 1945. The Russians can't even send spies into American aircraft factories or component suppliers for explanations and they can't infiltrate research institutes. They could do all those things for the B-29 (and Manhattan project), but not the B-2.
Similarly, in the 3050s, the Inner Sphere could get no spies into the home world factories, didn't have decades of monitoring Clan scientific publications, and had no ready access to the scientists behind Clan technology. Then they had decades of spreading post-Star League technology into an industrial base and education system that was mostly working at the Terran Alliance level.
And the Inner Sphere did it. It started mass producing Clan tech.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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ghostrider
08/20/15 06:51 PM
76.89.121.69
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I can partially answer that. Not all units would be upgraded as soon as the newer equipment comes out. Militia for one would not get the equipment right away, and in some backwater worlds, if ever.
But I would say those companies producing regular things like lasers would be fighting tooth and nail to avoid losing their place in society. Granted the smarter ones have switched over to making the newer stuff, but some will feel they should not have to make what the customer wants, and cries about it. Example, I believe chevy was complaining china wasn't buying some of their cars, yet it turns out they refused to put the driver on the other side of the car.
But seriously. The lyrans and free worlds would eliminate the need for clan building the products quickly, no matter how much it cost at first. They would want to destroy the clans economy, hence keeping the weapons out of even the clans hands, while trying to upgrade their units with the better tech. Especially the salesmen in the lyran sector.
That would definitely be keeping with their ways of thinking.
Though I can see the confederation not making it because of cost, but they would have to do something to keep from being over run. But yet it was the confederation that made the stealth armor to begin with. Hmm....
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
08/20/15 07:54 PM
71.170.162.49
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Currently the world spends better then two point two present (2.2%) of the worlds GWP on their militaries. At present the world is not fighting a world war unlike the Inner Sphere is. That being said the Inner Sphere should be spending far grater than 2% of the GNP of the Inner Sphere on its military but its not.
Assuming that Earth as the same GWP in 31st century and spends the same amount of its GWP on the military as it does today it can afford to build at least a dozen Leviathan Battleships each and ever year and that is only one planet among hundreds. If you wanted to use the percents of the GNP that was spent in WW2 that would jump to about 250 Leviathan Battleships each and every year from earth.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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Akirapryde2006
08/20/15 07:54 PM
71.100.132.249
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@Cray
You will forgive me, but I can't figure out if you support or oppose my point of view.
However I do find your comparison regarding the 40's to present day to be unsettling. You are mistaken in your understanding of what discoveries were being made during this time frame. Stealth Technology, Jet Power, Cruise Missiles and Computers are just a few examples of modern technologies that were in development during the 40's. It took us only four decades to reach where we are now. It makes no sense that the Houses couldn't do the same in far less time.
This is what I consider to be a fundamental flaw in the Mechwarrior universe. I can understand the backslide in technology, but I disagree with how long it would take for the Houses to get back on a level playing field with the Clans. Having access to the technology and a fundamental understanding of how similar items work would make it easier for the Houses to replicate the technology on a massive scale.
I also disagree with the current technological level of Comstar during the 3050's. They not only had the complete resources of an entire solar system at their disposal for the same amount of time as the Clans did, and lacked the conflicts. They also had a religious sense to technology. Why wouldn't they push the limits of technology.
On a side note Cray, I love your signature.
Edited by Akirapryde2006 (08/20/15 07:57 PM)
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Retry
08/20/15 11:04 PM
76.7.232.58
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Quote:
Akirapryde2006 writes:
@Cray
However I do find your comparison regarding the 40's to present day to be unsettling. You are mistaken in your understanding of what discoveries were being made during this time frame. Stealth Technology, Jet Power, Cruise Missiles and Computers are just a few examples of modern technologies that were in development during the 40's. It took us only four decades to reach where we are now. It makes no sense that the Houses couldn't do the same in far less time.
The first jets were unreliable, inefficient fuel guzzlers with unimpressive thrust outputs. Compared to Generation 1.5 jets that came out half a decade later (F-86 Sabre, MiG-15), these were biplanes without the maneuverability. And the Generation 2 jets (EE Lightning, MiG-21) made the Generation 1.5 jets look like biplanes. The situation is the same with computers and cruise missiles. No real advances in stealth technology were made in the 40's either. The alleged Ho-229 "stealth fighter" was simply a flying wing design that happened to have a modestly reduced cross-sectional signature on *one* type of radar employed due to its shape, and was never (un)built with stealth in mind.
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ghostrider
08/21/15 12:10 AM
76.89.121.69
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If you believe the ideas that a ufo crashed in Roswell, New Mexico, and that research on it has caused a majority of the tech advancements in the world, then this might show you what is possible.
Now akira, I have a split agreement with your idea of comstar. They should have a higher level of technology, since they did have store houses of star league tech. The solar system being in their control may not have had the necessary resources to advance some things to just being out of them by this time. Remember. The initial expansion of the hemegony was mainly from sol resources, and it was used alot during the history of the innersphere. Now I do agree that alot of the factories that were producing items from the star league era are still around, but most space stations are probably not habitable. Otherwise, endo steel and ferrous fiber would not have been in production as quick as it was.
And thinking about it, what is the difference between clan endosteel and ferrous fiber armor and the innersphere? They are not compatable, yet unless they changed alloys, should have alot in common. Refining technology or what would allow the alloys to be less bukly?
With the time they had to analyze it, they should have been able to come up with how to make it less bulky along with the engines.
And with all this tech upgrade, they still can't make a lighter ice.
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happyguy49
08/21/15 11:30 AM
98.30.242.159
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There is a lighter ICE, kindof, in the form of the fuel cell engines. The only tradeoff is in campaigns/RPG where they need more frequent fueling and have less of a range than an equivalent vehicle with a ICE engine.
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Karagin
08/22/15 08:09 AM
70.118.139.48
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True happyguy but the point is still valid, we have ICE that weigh twice as much as fusion engines and nothing seems to be done to change and given that according to the canon information ICE is so common and easy to make etc...one thing we should have seen either during the first Star League or more recently is a lighter in weight ICE. Yet we have not seen it.
And for both the IS and Clans to be unable to apply EndoSteel to the internal structure of vehicles is very odd, everything a mech has should be seen on vehicles as far as construction items with the only exception being the myomer and even then that might be something that could be used for construction vehicles or specialized vehicles. But like mass producing Clan weapons, this seems to be the white elephant in the room kind of thing, the holy grail that is seen, but just can't be reached.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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happyguy49
08/23/15 07:47 AM
98.30.242.159
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I think it comes down to the math of the game itself. A "light ICE" would have nowhere to fit in the existing tonnage list of engine types. (the number and variety of which have proliferated with the game's updates of the last decade or so)
Say, the ubiquitous 300 rated engine, your typical 3/5 movement 100 tonner's engine, or 4/6 movement 75 tonner's, etc. On a Battlemech (so therefore absent the shielding required on Vee's for the fusion types) the weights are as follows:
38 tons if ICE (no heat sinks)
33.5 tons if Fission (5 heat sinks)
28.5 tons if Compact Fusion (10 heat sinks)
23 tons if Fuel Cell (1 heat sink)
19 tons if Fusion (10 heat sinks)
14.5 tons if Light Fusion (10 heat sinks)
9.5 tons if XL Fusion (10 heat sinks)
6.5 tons if XXL Fusion (10 heat sinks, but higher movement heat)
...so, where would a "light ICE" fit in there? Maybe it could weigh as much as a fission or compact fusion engine, and weigh more and cost less than a fuel cell, but would have the same drawbacks as regular ICE? (i.e, no built-in heat sinks, requires power amplifiers for energy weapons, unusable in vacuum, Heavy Gauss Rifles prohibited, etc.) But that really seems like the Fuel Cell engine. Do we need ANOTHER type of engine?
(an aside, the program I was using showed a Fission-powered engine machine to be MORE expensive that a similarly rated Fusion plant.. that doesn't seem right; fission is heavier, lower-tech, and easier for poorer, backward worlds to make than fusion.)
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ghostrider
08/23/15 01:47 PM
76.89.121.69
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Make it 3/4th the weight for a light version. I know some will hate some thing like an advanced xl version which would be the weight of a fusion engine.
Game balance. That would mean tanks could hold more weapons then a mech can..
Since the ICE would likely be in commercial vehicles, it would make sense they would do something to make them lighter. And besides cost, that would drop as mass production brought that down, who would actually use the old ice engines? Seriously.
And thinking about the whole weight thing, a nuclear reactor should weigh more then even ice engines in sea battle ships, yet in this game, it doesn't. They want the instant electrical power plus the lack of needing fuel it the advantages for the reactor to my knowledge. No need to convert the reciprocating motion into electric, cutting out the need for generators.
The key to mechs is movement. And yet it seems people focus on their weapons capabilities. Mechs can go into places vehicles can't without prepared roads. Before the Kanga tank came out, they could jump while vehicles could not.
Now I do admit this does not really show in the game often. More weapons equals more chances to hit and do damage. The ever present crits being the key for things like massed mgs and such.
They could have added some movement to the mechs to compensate for the vehicles not adding heat for missile and ballistic weapons. Maybe give then a little extra heat dissipation due to them being a large billboard moving the sinks thru the air like fighters on a strafe get. I think maybe moving more then 2 spaces might reduce the heat by 1, meaning a walk would be negated, while a run would cost only 1 heat. Jumps would be the same as the jets would cause heat build up by the sinks on take off and landing. And some might actually have the streams moving over the sinks areas.
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Karagin
08/23/15 03:30 PM
70.118.139.48
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Actually tanks can't hold more weapons since they have space limits that prevents that, and so if a change did happen to allow a vehicle to carry more weapons, I don't see how that changes thing much since the critical hit table kills vehicles far faster then they can kill a mech.
So Ghostrider you want to improve the vehicle and then penalize them more against mechs just because their one advantage of not paying for heat for ammo weapons, yeah that is as fair as the WOB being able to always get the upper hand and everyone managing to miss the signs.
A lighter ICE engine could be something in the 3/4 the current tonnage, nothing drastic and that I think would work given that we can't use EndoSteel or DHS on vehicles, the advantage gained is minor overall compared to the ones the mechs have.
Jump Jets on a vehicle is pretty silly, given that the landings would jar the hell out of everything in the vehicle as well as the crew. So that is one area that could go away and return the whole jump jets only to the mechs.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
08/23/15 09:30 PM
76.89.121.69
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It was a suggestion if people think lowering the weight of an ice would destroy the game balance.
As for increasing mech speeds, would be the easiest way to increase the 'mobility' factor of a mech. Maybe allowing it to move thru woods and such when walking like it is in the open. Just something if you feel lighter ices would destroy mechs being the masters of the battle field.
And i agree. Crits are a vehicle killer. One shot and boom. There is a 50% chance of that happening when a shot gets thru. Compared to rolling to see if you crit the mech then having to hit something like ammo or getting 3 engine shots.
I will grant dhs having issues due to a lack of air flow, in the extreme reason they can not be used, but that is we fans are for. Hovers would definitely negate that issue, especially if the air intake or lift exhaust is used to pass thru the sinks. Endo steel is crap all the way around. Can't use it in a simpler frame then a mech? You can use ferrous fiber armor with extra space taken, but a simple frame of a vehicle is too difficult to make?
Back to the idea that certain things do not work in the game universe.
I don't remember the reason why endo steel is not allowed in vehicles. Other then the game developers don't want it in there.
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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
08/24/15 05:42 AM
71.170.162.49
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In reality mechs would be a LOT more restricted in the places that they could go than a vehicle could. You have this machine that causes a large amount of ground pressure in a very concentrated area, the faster the mech goes and the less square inches in the area that the foot covers the worse this pressure would be. You would have mechs falling over all of the time do to hitting a soft spot in the ground that might not be even known about until its way to late. About the only place that it would be safe for mechs to go is on prepared roads or on hard rock that wont crumble under the large pressure.
*Cray might be able to answer this, or not* How much kilogram of force per square centimeter does a 65 metric ton mech (the weight of a M1A2 Abrams) creates with a foot that takes up say 3/10 of a square meter running at 97.2 kmph? And how does that compare to a wheeled or tracked vehicle of the same weight? A mech does not have a consent pressure like wheeled or tracked vehicles do but creates an impact with the ground with each step of the foot.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.
I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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ghostrider
08/24/15 12:43 PM
76.89.121.69
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That it very true donkey. A walking mech would atleast stumble as a food sunk into some soft ground, such as sand on a shore line. And this does not cover a jumping mech, which exerts more force in that small area when landing from even a short jump.
(piloting roll?).
And with this added information I guess a cliff or even a steep hill would require more concentration then normal. But it does not prohibit the unit like it would some vehicles. Speed going thru those areas might be the factor.
We know snow mobiles will cross small bodies of water if going fast enough. Tracked unit can go up steep embankments and do it safely going slowly, with wheeled able to use speed to help get it up some as well.
And the funny thing about this, one of the novels actually pointed some of this out. They talked about the difference between a maruader and a locust, saying the larger foot print of the marauder actually made the pressure per square inch lighter then locust. Don't know if that is true or not, but they had it in there. But this is drifting from the bs that some things are 'impossible' to do, yet makes plenty of sense in reality.
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Karagin
08/24/15 02:33 PM
70.118.139.48
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The official reasoning behind not letting vehicles use endosteel is something along the lines of it would make vehicles to powerful and thus remove the focus of the game away from the mechs. That has been the line of BS told to me for many years and seems to be the stance of many.
Not sure how they came to that conclusion or why, but here we are wondering why we have tech limits on things etc...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
08/24/15 05:30 PM
76.89.121.69
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Lightening the load of structure on vehicles would destroy the balance of the game?
So in a game that vehicles take criticals like 1/4th of the hits, and the crews die on 50% of those criticals, that isn't enough to keep the game in check?
It seems then want a lance of light mechs to walk into an area, and kill a battalion of heavy and assault vehicles, and take minor damage seems to be the reason.
And I would honestly, like to know how any vehicle crews could attain elite status with the numbers suggesting you would die in less then 10 encounter as the crits concept shows.
Now they can form steel skeletons for mechs with moving joints and odd weight distributions, but some how a simple rectangular cage is beyond their abilities. How the hell did anyone advance any research when something as simple as this can not be done? It is a reinforced frame. Not something with a lot of complicated moving parts.
Yet they can have the better armor of ferrous fiber, which adds to their survivability if the crits don't do them in.
I know I am not the brightest person in the world, but this scares me.
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Karagin
08/25/15 06:30 AM
70.118.139.48
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They seem to be the type of engineers who feel that if it can be done it's not important, lets move on to the next to impossible and spending trillions and decades working on yesterday's tomorrow.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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ghostrider
08/25/15 10:47 AM
76.89.121.69
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It is interesting that costs are supposed to be stopping production of things, yet jump drives were still developed instead of finding way to colonize the sol system. And those very costs caused so many issues on earth at the time.
How much money was poured in the triple strength myomer to get it to be stable for battlemech use? They could use it in worker mechs without many issues. Yet how many trillions was dump to get something that needs to over heat the unit it is in, to gain the extra strength?
And still they could not figure a cheaper reliable way to get more power out of an engine, that would benefit all units. Or better power amps for ice engines? More fuel efficient ices for everyday use. And honestly, better tracking systems for weapons fire.
I know crays example of how an invasion would go if it was set up for real life, but don't try to claim you can't do something alot quicker because of money issues.
The successor states would love to keep everything, especially mechs, in their military only. Keep the high tech out of hands of merc and such. It would be in their best interests. Not many mercs run around with stinger missiles. So does that mean we need to stop making them because the costs are so high?
That should include the new stealth plane they are making. They still have not tested it in real combat, yet was approved and more expensive then the planes they are supposed to replace, yet the combat sims suggest they can NOT out fight those very planes?
The stealth system is the only thing they have going for them.
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