AmaroqStarwind
03/28/18 02:35 PM
174.235.19.144
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A lot of people are getting very angry with BattleTech lore as a whole, acting like everything that came out after the Succession Wars did nothing but ruin the "medieval dark age in space" aesthetic of 3025.
Does anybody else think that a secondary product line should be made as a way to appease this crowd, taking place in its own rebooted continuity? Let me know what you think.
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
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Frabby
03/28/18 04:27 PM
79.224.109.142
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Having an unbroken single continuity is one of the BattleTech universe's strongest selling points.
There was one single April Fools product exploring an alternate timeline, and even that one heavily tied into, and supported, the main timeline by providing a look at various characters and situations from a different, hypthetical angle that served to better explain how and what they were in the real setting.
My impression is that all franchises that allowed for alternate timelines, extra dimensions, multiverses or otherwise massive reboots suffered for it.
If the fanbase couldn't agree to follow one main timeline then they won't agree on any other timeline either. You can't improve the setting by splitting it, but you can split the fanbase and create ever smaller target audiences for your timeline-specific products - which amounts to shooting yourself in the foot. For no possible gain.
In my opinion, that's a bad bad idea.
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AmaroqStarwind
03/28/18 04:56 PM
174.235.19.144
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Empires Aflame was Halloween, not April Fool's.
Besides, I mainly only suggest this because I'm tired of 3025 Elitists harassing the members of the community who enjoyed The Clan Invasion and onwards, I even voted No to my own poll because I don't actually think this is a good idea, but it is the best idea I can personally come up with in regards to appeasing an already divided community.
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
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AmaroqStarwind
03/28/18 05:07 PM
107.167.112.149
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Also... The "edit" button does nothing at all when I click on it for some reason.
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
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ghostrider
03/29/18 04:16 PM
66.74.61.223
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There are plenty of issues with some things in the continuity of the game.
Infantry damage being changed would have dramatically changed the outcome of more then a few battles.
Some of the things from 2750 would have changed more then a few things, though I am giving that some leeway, as those ideas were not around when the game started.
The idea that comstar and the clans being from star league did not know of the sds system the WOB used to kill off the Wolf's Dragoons is another big hole. The fact that the ecm used by most should counter the ability of the ships to work properly, and even using lasers to 'sidestep' that issue, meant there has to be someone close to the battlefield to respond quickly. And the fact wolfnet, the wolves intel gathering seemed to be into everything going on and not know this?
The issue with hovercraft when xl engines become a small problem Hearing the weight minimum was to make sure they were not overly weaponized.
With all the caches the star league left that the novels and such exploit makes me wonder how the weapons from the league era never made it before the helm memory core was done. The depot on Galtar III comes to mind. All caches that had units in them fit the 3025 units and not had a single unit that had upgraded tech?
Another issue is nothing came from the minnsota tribes romp thru combine space. Nothing was ever found from that?
And some of the history in the house books was changed.
Rebooting as was pointed out to me a while back can't really be done until all the holes are fixed in the rules.
Some of the new rules don't seem to have been thoroughly checked out for holes. I don't mind the clan invasion though it was shortly afterwards I stopped dealing with the new stuff. Getting a brand new edition of mechwarrior role playing book and on the first page says the next edition will be out soon and nullify alot of the rules in the book told me money grab.
There is more, but you asked about a reboot.
Another continuity thing that would have changed the outcome of battles was how they dealt with ams. The original could very well stop you from being hit with a volley of 6 missiles or below. And ammo ran out quickly for it.
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csadn
03/30/18 03:23 AM
50.53.22.4
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I do feel the continuity is unrealistic, and needs redoing; however, I register my dislike in the proper way -- I don't buy anything which isn't in line with "OG BT".
Now, the reasons why.
Bluntly: Everything from the moment this website is named for onward was intended for one, and only one purpose -- to tell the players "You play the game Our Way, or you don't play".
Hint: Take the Jihad -- substitute "Mercenaries" for "players who don't rigidly follow Canon"; "do the math, DW". I had a employee of the company tell me as much at a con once.
The writers realize they had written themselves into a corner with 4SW -- FS was going to annihilate CC altogether; when that happened, FWL wouldn't be far behind (as sclerotic as it is), and once those two are gone DC is doomed. Then the galaxy is united again[ * ], and what then happens to the game?
[*: There's another matter here, but I won't discuss it openly. Suffice it to say: That argument was the closest I've ever come to getting thrown out of a con.]
So, the writers started in with the Deus ex 'Mechina -- first the ComStar "hidden army"; then the Clans' "hidden armies"; then the WoB "hidden armies"; I haven't seen writing this repetitive since Eric Bischoff was running World Championship Wrestling, and the fans all know how *that* played out.
Then there's the plotholes mentioned earlier -- it's bad enough the writing is repetitive; it's worse when it's also incompetent.
So, for my part: Yes, I ignore anything 4SW and onward -- and esp. anything with the name which rhymes with "peas". But I don't try to shove it down other peoples' throats; you do your thing, I'll do mine.
CF
Oregon: The "Outworlds Alliance" of the United States of America
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Karagin
03/30/18 12:54 PM
72.176.187.91
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Battletech has been going pretty well with the time line it has, the cool thing about it is the time line is not something folks have to use, if you hate the Clans, then you can play the game without them, if you hate the Jihad story guess what you can skip and still enjoy the game.
The need of a reboot technical it has already been done with all the retcons and attempts to give hard dates to things and bring in a lot of the stuff from magazines like StarDate and Battletechnology and older BT products.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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AmaroqStarwind
04/01/18 01:58 AM
108.255.82.176
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Personally, I wouldn't mind a further exploration of some of the more popular alternate timelines that fans have concocted for BattleTech. Things like the Kapiten Universe, Empires Aflame (which wasn't a fan product), That-One-Alt-History-Campaign-Where-Stefan-Amaris-Telefragged-a-JumpShip, etc.
I also really love things like Far Country, the Phantom 'Mech Incident, and Nova Cat's Mystics, but all of those things are exactly the sort of things that need to be permanently retconned to keep the fan base from being permanently divided...
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
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AmaroqStarwind
04/01/18 02:00 AM
108.255.82.176
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Oh, and because the Edit button is still broken... I am going to add in this post:
The very existence of MechAssault and MechWarrior Hero Clix really did not help matters...
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
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csadn
04/01/18 04:05 AM
50.53.22.4
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Quote:
Personally, I wouldn't mind a further exploration of some of the more popular alternate timelines that fans have concocted for BattleTech.
I've been considering offering up on this site the alt we started using when it became apparent the future was "Advanced-Tech Uber Alles", but I can't find any info on submitting "opinion pieces"....
CF
Oregon: The "Outworlds Alliance" of the United States of America
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Karagin
04/01/18 01:18 PM
72.176.187.91
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Quote:
[
I've been considering offering up on this site the alt we started using when it became apparent the future was "Advanced-Tech Uber Alles", but I can't find any info on submitting "opinion pieces"....
Just start a new topic and post the stuff, folks will respond or they won't.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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wolf_lord_30
04/01/18 11:55 PM
74.214.54.153
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Quote:
Oh, and because the Edit button is still broken... I am going to add in this post:
The very existence of MechAssault and MechWarrior Hero Clix really did not help matters...
MechAssault was a fun enough game that filled a void in my Xbox collection. While I enjoyed it, it is also not considered canon, which is probably a good thing.
I've always favored the 3025 era, it's what I grew up on. I also have a soft spot for the clans, as they were a major force when I started to get more into the game and of course, with Mechwarrior 2. After the early 3060's my attention drifts away. But hardly any campaign I run (with my group or a solo campaign in megamek) runs past a few years. So if I start it in 3017, I won't make it to the Clans. If I start at the beginning of the clan invasion, I probably won't even make it to the refusal war. And as far as most of my games are one offs, I pick and choose what I want to play. So I can ignore the jihad era altogether. I don't pretend is doesn't happen, I just choose not to use it. I've been tempted to try out the dark ages, just to do it, but I never really get around to it. The tech level and mech choices seem to be all over the place.
I personally don't see anything that points the need for a reboot. I will admit that I am curious of the new storyline. See if it continues the trend of odd, experimental, better-yet-worse-so-it-isn't-overpowered weaponry and tech, or if it tries to almost go back and to how it was.
Edited by wolf_lord_30 (04/02/18 12:12 AM)
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Requiem
04/10/18 09:55 AM
58.175.193.140
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When I began my fascination with BT I was a teenager – and I believe the books were written, as their designated target market, to this age bracket.
Now that I have aged so too has my appreciation for a good story – thus I look back and see all the potholes within the original history.
Thus if it is commercially viable I believe a revamp would and could be feasible to satisfy long term BT fans who grew up with BT, and are now adults, thus they have an adults mind to rationalize what is and what is not an acceptable story/historical framework.
(A Reboot is required to satisfy the new more mature target market).
Requiem
Adelaide, Australia
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Karagin
04/10/18 01:17 PM
72.176.187.91
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Quote:
When I began my fascination with BT I was a teenager – and I believe the books were written, as their designated target market, to this age bracket.
Now that I have aged so too has my appreciation for a good story – thus I look back and see all the potholes within the original history.
Thus if it is commercially viable I believe a revamp would and could be feasible to satisfy long term BT fans who grew up with BT, and are now adults, thus they have an adults mind to rationalize what is and what is not an acceptable story/historical framework.
(A Reboot is required to satisfy the new more mature target market).
Requiem
Adelaide, Australia
The issue with that idea is that you have a limited audience, as far as market sales go, yes we the old guard and older players would buy the stuff but if it's to mature or to adult, then a lot of the younger kids won't. And not to add to the issues that will bring up, but too many of the kids these days don't want things that require a lot of thought or effort, they want instant fun that can be recyled and fed right back to them, aka first person shooters or things like that.
So the market has to be there for them to make money, and given how little is actually put out by CGL, we get spurts where stuff is coming out pretty fast and then nothing for 3 months or more, where as other gaming companies have stuff coming out every three months if not more.
If the kids see a popular game aka in that folks are buying it and playing it, then they will do the same. Yet very very few game stores of the brick and mortar type, carry Battletech, those that do limit what they carry and even the online stores aren't pushing it and some don't even offer it.
Now a reboot, where do you start? Do you go back to the 3025 era and then move forward? Do you start with the Clans? Do you go back further and have the reboot start with the Star League?
What plot holes are in need of fixing?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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AmaroqStarwind
04/10/18 01:41 PM
99.203.155.94
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I think one way the writers could have avoided the FedCom Civil War and onwards altogether would have been to just let the Periphery nations become more powerful.
Perhaps if they started teaming up, then you wouldn't have a galaxy at peace because the Federated Commonwealth would suddenly have a new enemy that was as powerful as they were, and while they were distracted the Capellan Confederation would try to regain its strength and attempt to join forces with the Draconis Combine...
Who'd just spit in their face and team up with the Free Worlds League instead, and the Periphery Nations growing in strength would eventually take over the Capellan Confederation by force, but key members of Capellan society would probably flee and start looking to the Clans for help, desperate for any allies. Of course, they would finally get help, but not the kind of help that they actually wanted (or expected).
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
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Requiem
04/10/18 09:37 PM
58.175.193.140
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Really ……
In the beginning – two individuals with two to six map sheets / one lace to one company of ‘mechs each to determine the world’s fate.
Now, three individuals – defence – offence and a game master (each in their own room).
Defence is provided a map of the world and he/she distributes their forces + the worlds militia accordingly – they must also work out with the game master any alterations to the world – hidden bases / airfields / ammo supply caches etc.
Offence – game master supplies them with intel. from their employer / house / Clan unit (accuracy ?)
Game starts with when your forces arrive in-system – aerospace response / warship response – fight your way through to the planet
Once on planet – Defence / offence move their forces on their identical maps – letting the game master know your objectives etc.– the game master then works out time(from point A to B) and the possibility of a battle and informs Defence / offence – battle ensures ? or strategic manoeuvring of other pieces on the board including aerospace assets / armour / infantry / naval (what we are attempting to create is the most realistic situation given the rules (especially damage and how it progresses through the game). Plus you must also factor in for defence / offence – spy Vs. Spy or even how the civilians may help the Defence team (Kurita – very high).
As to pot holes – historical in nature– have you really read some of the old game supplements i.e. McCarron’s Armored Cavalry (#1669) – MAC attacked the 42nd Avalon Hussars on Kathil - one of the few remaining Jumpship drive manufacture and repair yards in the Inner Sphere – land on the planet un-molested – strike at the 42nd and then proceed to the next target. Bare minimum – three to four vengeance class Dropships + aerospace fighters above the repair yard and within an exclusion zone. On planet – two to three RCTs + RMM – getting In and off this planet now and in the future …. Without someone on the inside to assist the attacking force …. would be a nightmare, due to its technological importance to House Davion. (That entire romp through Davion Space once you analyse it on a spread-sheet shows the CC / MAC spent a fortune for little to no real advantage)
As to when I would re-start the game 3001 onwards by using a team who could look at the big picture and re-write accordingly.
Though you could change initial parameters of the game by having more Houses – reduced military might to just one/two Houses over that of all the others – thus more allegiances etc – have a look at the war of the roses / the 100 year wars / city state wars in Italy and ancient Greece not only as a template but as a means of understanding the scope and complexity of deals that could be made – determine if you win / lose and determine the outcome of states.
Also stop having unknown / more advanced forces keep popping out of nowhere because you have reached an impasse in writing the future ….
Requiem
Adelaide, Australia
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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csadn
04/10/18 09:44 PM
50.53.22.4
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Not exactly a "plot hole", but: The sudden bounceback of Advanced Tech wasn't in keeping with the "everything is going to Hell on a rocketcycle" motif of the original game.
For my part: Our group rolled back to 3014, and had Anton Marik figure out "I don't have enough troops to take the throne, even if Janos spends his time sulking in the dark". This led to a marriage to Candace Liao (the only relatively-sane member of that family), and thence to a Marik-Liao attack on the Federated Suns (with the FWL-CC border suddenly calm, the Home Defense Act can't be invoked by Andurien; guess whose troops get to shore up the FWL-LC border while "loyal" troops are earning plunder in the invasion? >:) ). End result: The borders are pretty-much where they were when Kerensky left; having failed to settle anything with open violence, the "4th Succession War" is fought with poison and bombs... with the result that the Houses tear themselves apart, and the old stellar nations start reappearing (the Azami, for ex.; or the Hindu nation absorbed by the FS, or...). This gives players the opportunity to carve out niches of their own, as opposed to the current "you play our way, or you don't play" attitude of the gaming companies.
CF
Oregon: The "Outworlds Alliance" of the United States of America
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Requiem
04/11/18 01:12 AM
58.175.193.140
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Though the largest plot hole could be considered the number of new ‘Mech designs post 3050.
How could the introduction of new technology allow for the manufacture of so many new 'mechs and their manufacturing plants / subsidiary plants.
Would not the governments require (via legal means) all new designs to go through a similar process as that of the US militaries - Joint Capabilities Integration and Development System – The systematic method established by the Joint Chiefs of Staff for assessing gaps in military joint warfighting capabilities and recommending solutions to resolve these gaps etc.
Rather multiple new companies are established with multiple new designs – where did the resources come from to not only build these manufacturing plants but also produce the ‘Mechs in large quantities (from raw materials – foundries – to specialized parts).
Second only by the manufacturing of warships for the CC – where did they acquire space docks to manufacture these + the technology to build even a single warship + how could their economy afford the manufacture of these vessels? Especially since they cannot even repair/manufacture a jumpship.
Requiem
Adelaide, Australia
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
04/11/18 04:43 AM
66.74.61.223
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From what I have been told, the IS was lacking technicians that knew how to make the factories and run them.
All the new mechs coming out, and yet it was decades of work that made the hatchetman possible.
The flaw of the 4th succession war is a good point here. Some how, they made multiiple rcts from factories that the fluff says could not keep up with the losses suffered from the constant raids and border skirmishes.
I know it could be they pulled units from those in the field, but that it highly unlikely. The number of mechs produced on the books did not match the number of mechs lost if you actually look at all the fluff and novels. You can not lose 3 rcts, and rebuild them plus add 5 more when your factories combined can't make more then 500 or so mechs.
The CC seemed to have gotten help from comstar and the fwl to build the stuff needed for the warships and such. Another big hole in how things were done. Then the alliance Suntzu had with two of the periphery states didn't make any sense. It was only after the 4th war that they figured out they needed to band together, and picked the smallest, worse military wise house?
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AmaroqStarwind
04/11/18 05:36 AM
99.203.155.94
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@csadn I do suppose we could just scrap the lore entirely, and make up our own universe using BattleTech's basic gameplay mechanics as a framework. That would probably be a lot better, both in terms of the amount of effort required (making is easier than fixing), and in the amount of creative freedom.
Or on the other hand, we could also play a humorous Alternate Universe campaign where literally the only BattleMech design in existence is the UrbanMech, and countless variants thereof.
UrbanMech: Utter Madness (UM-UM)
Fan Sourcebook/Scenario Pack, coming sometime when Amaroq finally gets off his lazy **** and actually writes a campaign
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
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Requiem
04/11/18 09:28 AM
58.175.193.140
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Vengeance Class Dropship
Technical Readout 3057 – Dropships, Jumpships and Warships – just explains that each Successor State has access to these Dropships; no other book has actual naval figures for each successor state’s naval complements.
Thus as it is my alternate history I made the assumption that the DC would/could have access to enough Vengeance Class ships for this action (as well as enough nuclear ordnance).
As for the Nova Cats Defending their Planets – as per Invading Clans A Battletech Sourcebook (#1645) – the Nova Cats did not acquire planets until the fifth wave whereas Turtle Bay was in the first waive.
The question to be asked thus – given they have no stake (planets) in a nuclear war between the SJ and DC what would they do as they are only a reserve unit at this stage.
As for all the clans determining an order of exterminates against DC.
If they did so the DC would have to revert to first Succession War (Jihad) Tactics against all the Clans.
Hanse Davion would then also have to revert to the same tactics (in this situation he would have to preserve his alliance with the DC rather than letting the Clans mortally wound / destroy the DC – for once the DC is gone FC will be next (the problem of the 4th Succession War again).
The question would then be then – would the Warden Sympathizers especially Clan Wolf’s and Nova Cats Khans allow the invasion to devolve into this type of warfare were the planets the Clans conquered include nuclear wastelands. Especial since their aim is to restore the Star League and allow them to redeem the morally corrupt inhabitants of the Inner Sphere (with a nuclear war they will never redeem IS citizens – it would be war to death forever and ever).
An additional question to be asked – would (politically) or could (militarily) the clans remain in the IS if both the FC and DC states initiated an all-out nuclear war upon the Clans given their limited number of warships and jumpships as the primary targets.
Requiem,
Adelaide, Australia.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Karagin
04/11/18 11:51 AM
72.176.187.91
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Y'all recall the Helm Memory core? It had a LOT of information that Grey passed on to his friends in high places as did Rico when he gave his copy to Teddy and company. So much of what we see later on is from that, add to this and you can find it in the novel Wolves on the Border, NAIS and other places were working on new tech aka double heat sinks among other things and we see ComStar try really hard to stop things. Also remember a lot of what we info wise in the game is from ComStar who are not know to be that trustworthy in the game's history.
Get a factory up and running isn't the hard part, it's getting the money and support to run it once it's rebuilt. One thing that is always waved away in Battletech is how money isn't important to the Houses or major players but we the minor players are like crap I need 20,000 Cbills for a single spare part... The technology hasn't been wiped out in the sense it's lost forever, just that certain things are missing.
Recall the Wolfhound was being built and was considered state of the art by the Inner Sphere and laughed at by the Clans. Mechs were being made, not in super huge numbers because there was no need, they built enough to replace the loses from the 4th War and then were jumping through hoops to get things forward to the Clan front come that war.
The really hole in things came after the 3060 time frame were we got all the silliness of the Dark Age crap dumped on us, mechs armed with chainsaws and acid guns and paint sprayers...then super weapons pop up etc...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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AmaroqStarwind
04/11/18 02:36 PM
99.203.155.94
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Yeah, the Dark Age was a mistake... or rather, a collection of good ideas strung together by very big mistakes. A lot of things from the Dark Age have merit, at least in concept, but the execution as a whole was pretty bad.
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
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The Scientist Caste has determined that time travel is dishonorable. |
csadn
04/14/18 02:36 AM
50.53.22.4
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Quote:
@csadn I do suppose we could just scrap the lore entirely, and make up our own universe using BattleTech's basic gameplay mechanics as a framework. That would probably be a lot better, both in terms of the amount of effort required (making is easier than fixing), and in the amount of creative freedom.
It wouldn't be the first time I've had to do that -- I study History, and I find the lack of knowledge on that score in the gaming industry *appalling*....
Quote:
Or on the other hand, we could also play a humorous Alternate Universe campaign where literally the only BattleMech design in existence is the UrbanMech, and countless variants thereof.
I played Outworlds Alliance -- dealing with "unloved" 'Mechs was a recurring issue for me.... >;)
CF
Oregon: The "Outworlds Alliance" of the United States of America
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Requiem
05/02/18 02:03 AM
58.175.193.140
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Table-top gaming needs to be expanded to include a roleplaying (which will become a dominant part of the overall game).
Thus, by making the battle phase all the more realistic the enjoyment of the game overall is increased.
As a role player and a table-top battle gamer I understand what we want is the freedom, the liberty, to create our own Inner Sphere … as an individual and as part of a group the ability to establish a unit (of our own design) – then run that unit within a history that appeals to us as a group.
Therefore establishing a realistic narrative is a pre-requisite to a good game – Post 4th Succession War my/our gamers require a more thought out history otherwise after the game it devolves into drunken discussions as why this or that could or could not have taken place and why …..
We need to adapt, overcome and survive …..
Requiem,
Adelaide, Australia
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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AmaroqStarwind
05/02/18 02:30 AM
108.255.82.176
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I discussed some aspects of this on another forum...
Apparently, even changing the Hex size from 30 meters to 45 meters, that way ranges and speeds can be more realistic without affecting gameplay, is enough to seriously piss off at least half of the fanbase.
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
MechEngine (Alpha) -- On Hiatus
The Scientist Caste has determined that time travel is dishonorable.
Edited by AmaroqStarwind (05/02/18 02:32 AM)
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Karagin
05/02/18 10:16 AM
72.176.187.91
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Quote:
I discussed some aspects of this on another forum...
Apparently, even changing the Hex size from 30 meters to 45 meters, that way ranges and speeds can be more realistic without affecting gameplay, is enough to seriously piss off at least half of the fanbase.
Depends on many factors, does the game play change with the extra 15 meters? By that does the scale of a hill or river change?
The game has yet to give a standard size in height for the mechs, we have mechs that are almost the same height when you look at the miniatures but yet in the books/novels they make it clear that an Atlas is taller then a Warhammer, but it's hard to tell with the miniatures at times.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Retry
05/02/18 11:39 AM
64.189.130.11
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Quote:
I discussed some aspects of this on another forum...
Apparently, even changing the Hex size from 30 meters to 45 meters, that way ranges and speeds can be more realistic without affecting gameplay, is enough to seriously piss off at least half of the fanbase.
'Mech weapon ranges, perhaps. 'Mech speeds, debatable. Foot infantry becomes completely silly with Infantry running at 4.5 m/s. If Tac Ops Infantry Sprinting is under effect, the entire platoon could cover 90 meters in 10 seconds, making everyone clones of Usain Bolt.
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AmaroqStarwind
05/02/18 11:45 AM
174.235.30.252
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Thank God that Sonic the Hedgehog doesn't exist in BattleTech.
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
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The Scientist Caste has determined that time travel is dishonorable. |
ATN082268
05/02/18 12:35 PM
69.128.58.222
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Quote:
My impression is that all franchises that allowed for alternate timelines, extra dimensions, multiverses or otherwise massive reboots suffered for it.
Possibly. The Star Trek franchise seemed to do pretty well with it.
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If the fanbase couldn't agree to follow one main timeline then they won't agree on any other timeline either. You can't improve the setting by splitting it, but you can split the fanbase and create ever smaller target audiences for your timeline-specific products - which amounts to shooting yourself in the foot. For no possible gain.
In my opinion, that's a bad bad idea.
I'm not sure why having alternate timelines in itself would hurt the overall numbers of the fanbase although it depends a bit on how it is done. I don't think people are generally advocating an equal distribution of resources to x timelines. Pick one main timeline and devote most of the resources to that timeline but have others, perhaps as what if scenarios. If a lot of people like some stuff out of the what if scenarios, then something similar might be incorporated into the main timeline. I see the what if type scenarios as kind of a test bed for ideas. I also think it could make the Battletech Universe more interesting.
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AmaroqStarwind
05/02/18 01:06 PM
174.235.30.252
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Actually, turns out Empires Aflame was more popular than I first thought. There have been fan supplements for it, one of which was titled Stars Aflame, a sort of Terran Supremacy Field Manual.
Also, the writers of Stars Aflame seem to dislike the Interstellar Operations rules for LAMs as much as I do, and for that reason the "No Heavies"/"No XL Engines"/"No Endo Steel"/"No Ferro Fibrous" rules don't apply on their LAM record sheets.
On that note, LAMs in both the original rules and the Interstellar Operations rules don't have the same restriction as Aerospace Fighters with symmetrical mass distribution, since they have Gyros like a regular BattleMech, helping to compensate for uneven weight.
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
MechEngine (Alpha) -- On Hiatus
The Scientist Caste has determined that time travel is dishonorable. |
ghostrider
05/02/18 07:18 PM
66.74.61.223
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The issues isn't with a single mode, but what happens when you switch to another mode.
Granted, it was in the fluff for one of the mechs, that they explain needing counter weights in other areas, to balance a mech. The fighters could get away with it by having avionics and even fuel tanks set up on the light side of the body of the fighter to help counter act the weight.
Honestly, I think the no advanced tech like engines, frame, armor, should be there. You basically move the torsos around to form the wings. Something immovable like an engine would prevent that from happening.
The internal/armor is a little harder to reason why, as the stuff on lams are designed to move like they do. It may be, the bulk of the items gets in the way in the other modes it uses.
The fighters could well be able to do as they want with distribution, with the fact they generally operate in space. A few extra thrusters/booster in that location could counter the mass pretty easily.
In an atmosphere, maybe not so easy.
The no heavies shouldn't be a surprise. Otherwise, why not just make a dropship change into a oversized mech? The dropshuttle is in the range to be a super heavy unit.
Which should bring in the question of just how large a super heavy unit can be.
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AmaroqStarwind
05/02/18 07:43 PM
13.84.155.127
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Well, the old LAM rules couldn't let you build an LAM heavier than 100 tons, for the simple reason that you couldn't build a regular BattleMech heavier than 100 tons. I don't know what the exact limit was on LAMs back then, but I assume it was established that if you could build a regular BattleMech or a regular Aerospace Fighter that was the same weight, then you could build an LAM in that weight.
Using both SuperHeavy rules and LAM rules, however, SuperHeavy LAMs would be impossible because LAMs need a minimum of 3 Jump Jets, and SuperHeavies can't have Jump Jets of any kind. Doesn't matter whether you're using the old LAM rules, or the new LAM rules, you need a minimum of 3 Jump Jets.
That's also why Land Air UrbanMechs are impossible.
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Did you just build a Land Air 'Mech with a Safe Thrust of 2?
SuperHeavy Hover Tank Mechs would be a slightly less tragic, but FAR more confusing story:
The maximum weight for a Hover Tank Mech is 50 tons, since the maximum weight for a Hovercraft is 50 tons.
The maximum weight for a SuperHeavy Hover Tank Mech would be 100 tons, since the maximum weight for a SuperHeavy Hover Craft is 100 tons. However, the minimum weight of a SuperHeavy Mech is 105 tons...
So, would it be a SuperHeavy Mech, or would it be an Assault Mech?
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
MechEngine (Alpha) -- On Hiatus
The Scientist Caste has determined that time travel is dishonorable. |
csadn
05/04/18 10:45 PM
50.53.22.4
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The LAM weight limit was 50 tons.
CF
Oregon: The "Outworlds Alliance" of the United States of America
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AmaroqStarwind
05/05/18 12:20 AM
174.235.30.252
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Wait, you mean it was actually increased?
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
MechEngine (Alpha) -- On Hiatus
The Scientist Caste has determined that time travel is dishonorable. |
ghostrider
05/05/18 04:02 AM
66.74.61.223
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If I remember right, the Phoenix Hawk lam was 50 tons. One of the original 3 lams put out in the original startup.
I thought I seen somewhere they had a Shadow Hawk lam, at 55 tons, but it's been a while.
Don't know if they increased the weight in the newer books.
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Frabby
05/05/18 08:35 AM
84.180.76.43
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I seem to recall the LAM weight limit is 55 tons, i.e. medium 'Mech weight.
All canonical LAMs are heavier than their 'Mech counterpart - the Wasp and Stinger LAMs weigh in at 30 tons as opposed to their 20 ton namesakes, the Phoenix Hawk LAM is 50 tons instead of 55 and the (non-functional boondoggle) Shadow Hawk LAM was 60 tons, incurring the "Illegal" quirk.
(Not sure about the Scorpion LAM but that one never actually worked either.)
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Retry
05/05/18 10:55 AM
64.189.130.11
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The S-Hawk LAM is 55 tons and was functional.
The Scorpion LAM has the "illegal" quirk pretty much solely due to the artificial restriction of LAMs to bipedal-based designs.
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AmaroqStarwind
05/05/18 06:22 PM
99.203.155.107
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Tripod LAM time!
Oh, and speaking of Boondoggles, I actually fixed the Ostscout IIC.
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
MechEngine (Alpha) -- On Hiatus
The Scientist Caste has determined that time travel is dishonorable.
Edited by AmaroqStarwind (05/05/18 06:22 PM)
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csadn
05/07/18 01:32 AM
50.53.22.4
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That's CGL rewriting the book, again -- earliest edition LAM rules had a weight cap of 50 tons. They mentioned a "failed" _Shadow Hawk LAM_ project, but gave no details as to why it failed (most players back then assumed it was "overweight").
CF
Oregon: The "Outworlds Alliance" of the United States of America
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Requiem
05/09/18 10:08 AM
58.175.193.140
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Now, let us now get back on track shall we…
I suggest rebooting the entire Battletech universe, keep the Inner sphere, their houses and their military size the same, however I would make the following changes …
First, the Periphery States – double or triple the amount of planets they have by adding new planets outwards – also double or triple their military units they have (this would make them a viable threat to those Houses within the Inner Sphere – therefore making alliances very important when deciding to go to war);
Second, When Kerensky decided to leave a proportion of those troops decided to remain behind and not follow his exodus, in an attempt to preserve the Star League. To that end a Terran hegemony exists around Terra (Though Terra itself is an independent state like that of the Vatican and still controlled by ComStar) – thus they are effectively ComGuard;
Third, Make the Clan Home worlds much closer than they are now rather than 6 months to get there lets us say a maximum one month – plus reduce the number of clans to no more than 6;
Fourth, Technology – it is not as run down as was initially advertised – include Star League ‘Mechs, their weapon systems, electronic warfare systems, also include navies (warships) and increase the number of Jump-ships and Dropships – thus the succession wars have not been as devastating as originally thought to date;
Fifth, make sure you have thought out who, for each House, makes what ‘Mech, vehicle , aerospace fighter, warship, Dropship, Jump-ship et al and have their military primarily stick to these. Also discussing which realms allows the sale of certain weapon systems to mercenaries / other houses (similar to what occurs now in selling arms around the world) and who has a weapons sale ban to certain houses (and how corporations get around this by selling to a third party);
Sixth, make sure there are still Dukedoms within all realms – and work out their back stories – who is related to whom – who hates who and why as being petty / stupid / greedy can lead to so many wars and even defections to other houses / striking out on their own;
Seventh, Then start again from the year 3001 and go from there as this would allow for more plot twists and you shouldn’t end up with a 4th Succession War problem and as for the other issue …. If all houses are suitably multicultural there shouldn’t be a P.C. problem unless you actively portray one house as being Asian, European, African, American et al like what we have now.
Anything else you would want to change?
Requiem
Adelaide, Australia.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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ghostrider
05/09/18 02:10 PM
66.74.61.223
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It may be a little easier to just have some of the factories in the periphery survive and be a viable resource of the larger states there to use. But actually naming other star systems would help there.
There were units that stayed behind to try and keep the league going. Most found out quickly, it was not going to happen. Most signed up with the various houses, though a few just turned merc. The Eridian Light Horse is an example of that.
The biggest issue with the third change is that comstar had sent out explorers to search systems around the IS and the periphery. One month isn't what you would think as that is only about 2 jumps out. The concordenat is larger then that. Also 6 clans would not be enough to really challenge the IS. Instead of destroying just the Jaguars, they would have taken them all out.
Having more and higher tech should have happened, as so many canon books suggest so much was left behind, there could not be the more advanced tech in the hands of the houses. Even the 'secret' weapons plants would have been producing that for their elite/spec ops units.
The sixth is still there, though they are part of the larger houses. Most are accepting being part of it, as they have worse enemies on the other side of them, but they all have their motives, and still work against the houses they are with. The duchy of Andorian is a good example of this.
The last thing is a problem in all houses. And it isn't just race, but religion has issues with others. And if you remove that, you remove alot of potential plots there. Rasslehague had a lot of scandinavians living in it, so was rebellious of the Combines rule. But yet they didn't like the Stieners either, so fought both until the DC took them over.
The biggest issue with the continuity, which I hate to admit, came from alot of the back story coming after the game became popular. The issue was they did not keep the story straight once they made it.
One example of this is the Star League tech. Nothing was really said about this until the 2750 book came out. And the tag line of the current mechs in the 3025 era were low tech versions of the leagues mechs. Yet there seems to be no difference between the league era mechs and the 3025 ones. Just the light original 3, which are now unseen mechs. I really have not seem much of a difference in them. I would figure the league, before it fell was much like the clans. High tech in all their units, even ignoring the costs to do so. It was their tech that supposedly made them better then the houses. Yet that did not seem to be the case.
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Akalabeth
05/09/18 04:14 PM
75.155.167.106
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Quote:
The S-Hawk LAM is 55 tons and was functional.
The Scorpion LAM has the "illegal" quirk pretty much solely due to the artificial restriction of LAMs to bipedal-based designs.
The illegal quirk doesn't matter since quirks are optional rules, thus the rule requiring player consent to field the illegal design is also optional and can be rejected by the LAM player.
Just grab it and play it.
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Akalabeth
05/09/18 04:24 PM
75.155.167.106
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Quote:
Anything else you would want to change?
Requiem
Adelaide, Australia.
I think you kinda miss the point of pre-clan Battletech. Battletech is about the Houses. Everything else is just a sideshow. Making the periphery powers a viable threat to the houses, or making the terran hegemony in the centre just takes focus away from the 5 Houses. So the emphasis and focus on any battletech reboot should be on the houses first and foremost.
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Requiem
05/09/18 09:08 PM
58.175.193.140
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Sorry but I think you are missing my point.
Even pre-clan Battletech has never been just about the five Great Houses - there is so much more that that ... mercenaries the periphery, explore corps .....
Rebooting is about taking the path not taken - by adding new Houses, new forces, new technology etc. I am attempting to expand upon base not keeping it to the limited game as it was originally set up as.
So no the focus does not need to be on the five houses - but the five great houses and the 7 or 8 Minor houses - the narrative is expanded so the game is also expanded.
Requiem
Adelaide, Australia.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Akalabeth
05/09/18 09:51 PM
75.155.167.106
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By adding more houses, you are also creating a barrier to entry for new players. Part of the problem with the current game is there are too many factions, launching a game with 12 factions out of the gate seems a bit impractical. That's why MWDA did away with all of the factions and just introduced a handful of mercenary groups, because a few groups are easier to get to know than 12 or 20.
But either way the game has always been primarily about the 5 great houses. With the clan invasion, arguably Falcon, Wolf, Bear and Comstar/WOB are in the mix as well but prior to that was just 5 with a sprinkling of comstar (who didn't have mechs of their own). How FASA chose to portray the houses was through the eyes of mercenaries or special teams that work with or for one or more of the Houses. But the 5 houses will never go away, Liao will never be conquered, not permanently, and even the dissolved FWL is back up and running after a hiatus.
And while the Periphery has been there for years in real time, they basically did absolutely nothing until the Cappellan reclamation of St Ives and other lost territories. Unless you count being target practice for the clans as doing something.
One thing that people don't realize is that Periphery and other minor factions aren't there to be focused upon, they're there to create a greater sense of depth and history than the universe would otherwise afford. That's the same reason the story starts after 3SW and not with the STar League, because it starts with a history. And the problem with long lived franchises is that eventually, all that information that is just window dressing eventually gets put under a microscope and the world becomes a lot smaller.
Edited by Akalabeth (05/09/18 09:52 PM)
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Requiem
05/09/18 10:23 PM
58.175.193.140
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So as a defender of the Status Quo you are happy with only five great houses?
As for the Periphery being window dressing - you do realise that it could be so much more that that, if only you give it the freedom to become so much more.
As for Liao not being conquered - yes it can be - it is at the discretion of the player and their world view - we all do not have to accept what the writers have written down as the one and only history as much of it makes little to no political or tactical sense (the clan's invasion is a good case in point).
You must remember what Thomas said "If the rules are hollow and they do not take into account the human spirit they should be disregarded".
And in this case the history as laid down by the writers do not take into account the human spirit of their time - thus the history needs re-writing to make it something that I could respect.
Requiem
Adelaide, Australia.
Get thee to Coventry … Now is the winter of our discontent, made glorious by this daughter of Tharkad … Our army shall march through. Well to New Avalon tonight.
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Akalabeth
05/09/18 10:46 PM
75.155.167.106
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The Periphery isn't just window dressing, the Periphery is a place for players to put their campaigns where they're not beholden to the history of the universe. That's the same reason why the new Battletech game is set in the Periphery, because it's a place where HBS can do whatever they want. When you start adding detail and explaining all the goings-on in those areas, then suddenly the setting becomes a lot smaller and a lot less free for the players.
I would hardly call myself a defender of the status quo either. Battletech as a game is archaic and in dire need of a reboot to modernize it (no Alpha strike is not that game). But setting wise, if I were to reboot the game I wouldn't put the game in 3025 I'd put it in at minimum during the clan invasion. So many players came in from the MW video games, the game needs to launch with Timber Wolves and Warhawks. The fact that the introductory boxed sets are still set in 3025 is symptomatic of CGL's lack of initiative when it comes to modernizing the game in any facet.
Either way I would argue that the Houses are essential because their being there is what makes the game what it is. You can change the rules of the game, you can change when it starts, but changing the tone and theme of the universe is I think problematic. Because the theme and tone is what is going to tie it together and ground it to the original material.
Conversely as an entirely separate idea, if you were to put the game into 3025 I wouldn't actually put more emphasis on the factions I would probably put less on ALL of them. I would instead make the game about being a mercenary company. In the same way that a game like Descent is running a party of adventurers through a dungeon, I'd make a Battletech reboot about running a recruiting, building, hiring, maintaining, fighting with a mercenary company. Houses would be there, but as employers, or as opposition- but the hook of the game would be about building and maintaining your own unit and taking it through different campaigns.
Either that or, make a game about Solaris where the player is running a stable and they get into differnet gladiatorial fights.
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ghostrider
05/09/18 10:58 PM
66.74.61.223
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I would say starting in the star league era, maybe right after Kerensky leaves. You have a wide open area to do what you want, with all sides, 10 main houses at that time, not the 5 now, and really get into it. Grab and create your own empire, changing the entire scope of the IS.
The problem with the game was the fact it was pieced together when it became popular and the long term goals weren't really thought out.
And Descent for me is a video game of a ship that goes thru tunnels to kill the invading enemies. But I assume you are talking Decent into Darkness. Where you head into the underdark to deal with the drow.
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Akalabeth
05/09/18 11:49 PM
75.155.167.106
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No, it's called Descent: Journeys in the Dark but everyone just refers to it as Descent
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Rotwang
05/30/18 02:39 PM
94.226.248.136
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Battletech could use some cleanup work.
- Scale, I have said before that many SF games, films and books make the mistake to reduce space to places the size of a city/county or small countries. I can understand that mechs being a rare resource that they may not be present in large numbers, but any sane state/military would at least look for alternatives only because tanks and infantry should by all logic be cheaper and much easier to run than a tiny stable of mechs. I know some of you will claim that this is being held back by a tiny elite who don't want competition, but that kind of stuff only happens in conspiracy theories, he who does invest in new methods often ends up a winner and nobody is dumb enough to avoid upgrading or changing their military if, like the Inner Sphere, the existance of your nation is at stake. One of the major changes should be made to interstellar transport, jumpships should be massive, capable of moving massive amounts of cargo. A Scout jumpship should be able to carry at least a dozen dropships and a Monolith fifty or more to keep interstellar trade even remotely viable. You also have to get rid of stuff like "agricultural" planets that have jack **** for industry. That's again provincial thinking and without a proper Interstellar trade network pretty much unsustainable for any length of time. This is not to say that some planets may not have serious limitations due to war, disease or the breakdown of some tech, but like I said, we need planetary scale economies, not states within the US where one produces grain, and another produces tech, and a third produces cars etc ...
- Tech adjustment : Battletech is still rooted in 1980's gamer's view of technology. Guns feel more like the 1930's than at least a thousand years into the future. The standard rifle in the game is more an M1 Garand than a top of the line M16 derivative. Ditto for computers, medtech etc. I would be really surprised if we can't achieve life extension beyond say 120 in the next thousand years. We're already catching up with prosthetics/cybernetics as they were described in the 3025 era. Many famous characters are still very much active in old age some 80-90 years old, and guys like Victor live to be above 100, but look terrible. I'd raise the age limit to 200 and slow aging so that people still look vital up till around 150 without looking like they escaped from the Egyptology department. We should also scale up space capability. If it dips below a certain point, the whole Inner Sphere would simply collapse. So jumpships need to be huge and carry a lot more than they do now. Finally I'd address the tech problems. New tech was added progressively to the game and back in 3025 when a PPC was really advanced tech we could assume that better versions were lost or too hard to produce, but we should rewrite the canon to include at least a fraction of Star League tech having survived, carefully hoarded, jury rigged or too hard/costly to repair. It would be logical that many mechs would not be rebuilt when they were damaged, but they would be stripped of their more advanced features so that they could be transferred to key units in times of need. Most houses would have access to a limited pool of SLDF era mechs in fighting conditions, kept in the wings just in case things turned really bad. And I wouldn't be surprised if you found at least one or two Star League exclusive machines still operating with many regiments with Star League capable versions of the more popular 3025 era mechs still available in limited numbers.
The Helm core would be more than just a database of blueprints of SLDF mechs, it should contain lots of ideas that the SLDF was working on and contained all the info and suggestions that were designed to boost the efficiency of the SLDF and keep it competitive with the rest of the Inner Sphere. So this means that a PPC produced by the Star League was necessarily better, but they could produce them faster and cheaper than anyone else and tech had advanced so that the ER PPC was now bog standard, while the Inner Sphere was still trying to close the gap and had to use versions that were less efficient or were harder/slower/more expensive to build whereas the SLDF was already producing early versions of Clan style weapons.
So this helps to close the gap with the Clans and omnimechs might have been tried and tested before the civil war and different people might have toyed with similar concepts, but the SLDF had the first practical ones, operational but still glitchy and inefficient, which means the Clans get to perfect the design, while the Inner Sphere may be almost totally unaware of the concept, aside from maybe a handful of specialists and some highly inconclusive early trials at the NAIS.
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ghostrider
05/30/18 10:24 PM
66.74.61.223
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The issue has a basis in the players. Few want to fight hordes of vehicles when invading to defending, well, anything. And few want to run vehicles. It bites, but that is why the game focuses on units that are supposed to be outmatched in numbers over 4 to 1.
I can agree with the ideas of jumpships being to small to really move the BT universe. Worlds like Hesperus was presented to rely on food shipments and such as the local farms could not keep up with the factory workers, much less anyone else on the world, ie the garrison, support plants and such.
A hot world like Quentin is presented like a world that has to import almost everything, and that isn't just the mech factories.
Yet some how, the nations that use and support these worlds and hundreds like them, are made to sound like they can barely keep up with them, much less move more then a few regiments at a given time and only a jump, maybe two?
There is the suggestion that it does hurt their people when a full war is going on, yet some how, even with military forces on the world, do not revolt in mass numbers. They all starve or worse die of thirst as their only supply of water is used to invade some land like the periphery. There is no way the system would survive like this. And for those that suggest otherwise, the military would NEVER allow jumpships made in their area to be sold to others. I don't care who the leader of the nation is. That is life. Period.
The idea of non military tech being so far behind is something I can support as well. Even in the clans, they would not have allowed that tech to slide to be the same as the IS. The invasion of Rasalhauge had the one world where the clanners got sick? Ok. But to be sick for as long as they were? No. They may not care about non warriors, but the ability to fight off disease and infections would be a priority. The honor thing would have them telling the others they were inferior, but all need that to continue to be working. They have regeneration tech, yet can't do more then the IS? Waste being part of it, but they do not have the tech at all?
And to be honest, the level of tech difference between the IS and the league was small to be honest. It should have been more like the clans with the clans being even more advanced. So I do agree with that point as well.
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Rotwang
05/31/18 01:03 PM
94.226.248.136
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Tanks and infantry are great as planetary garrisons, as it stands now they are awful for interstellar warfare. Moving an RCT will not only need to move their troops and equipment, but also supplies, soldiers need water, food, toilet paper, a change of clothes, fuel for cooking, replacement parts, ammo, equipment to move it all once it arrives at destination, you would need transport to follow your frontline troops, logistic elements, you may need to build latrines, landing fields, field bases, you need generators to power all the equipment if only for the staff's computers etc ...
One of the few things BT gets right is that the Battlemech is highly convenient for interstellar warfare, it uses up fewer people and the resources they need and they are able to take on large conventional forces.
Meanwhile anybody who can rub two braincells together will figure out that you want to make an invasion as inconvenient and difficult as possible. Even if you stick to the Ares convention, it would make sense to spread out key assets so as to force the enemy to divide their forces if they want to take control. You want to be able to force them to land where you want them to or again make it so that they will have to pick remote areas where the movement of your troops and supplies is made more difficult and is vulnerable to attack. Even with a population of only a few hundred million you can spare quite a few resources to figure out a good defensive strategy, you may not set out to win, but you can make life miserable for the invader.
Which leads to the question how planets are kept under control, say a Federated Suns planet is taken by the Capellans, odds are that the Feds are prosperous and technologically advanced compared to the poorer Capellans, which would almost inevitably lead to a drain, which brings the risk of revolt and even if the people of the Inner Sphere have learned to accept that border regions can change hands, anyone who has even a chance to get away will do so. The default setting of BT is the permanent threat of war in a near endless cycle where no power or coalition can break this cycle and peace is always disrupted because somebody thinks it's too quiet ... Nobody in their right mind would want to stay in the border regions if the next war is only a matter of time.
And it still doesn't mesh with the background in that the Star League, Kerensky's Exiles and the Republic were undermined by nationalist feelings ...
As for tech, it's all based on the much touted fallacy that advancement only comes from war ... but that is completely wrong, in a technological age warfare is highly disruptive and usually ends up costing a lot more than the benefits you expect to reap. It's the "Baker's Window" fallacy where through an accident the Baker's window is broken and the village benefits because the glassmaker gets money they can spend at the butcher to buy steaks, the butcher can pay his debt to the tailor, the tailor can then buy a cake to celebrate ... but the fallacy is that we have a net loss, the window being broken is not an economic incentive (neither is war) it is a net loss and the money might well have been spent on something else so the illusion of getting ahead is merely that.
And I have serious doubts even with interstellar travel slowing down any rate of advance that would could even voluntarily hold back technological development for nearly a thousand years even if we wanted, we are probably closer in 2018 to the Star League than the 1980's idea of what 3035 might be like. A decade before another SF game, Traveller, still assumed computers would be the size of houses, most people now carry a device that would beat down a 1960's computer on almost every possible level in our pockets.
It would take extreme mismanagement and active countering by states and planetary leadership to hold back development. The Successor states for their own sake would have consolidated their planets and resources and ditched all those that were no longer viable save for those that were too valuable to give up. Even Comstar at its most evil and efficient would end up having to sabotage so much research and economic resources that somebody would have noticed a pattern.
Battletech assumes a strong Malthusian world compounded by near constant warfare that leads to a permanent state of protracted conflict that ends in general exhaustion only to resume a few years later when resources have reached sufficient levels to kickstart it all again. And there is always somebody plotting the next major upset either voluntary or by accident. Amaris, Kerensky, Katrina Steiner, Alaric Wolf, Max Liao, Sun Tzu Liao, Hanse Davion, Myndo Waterly, Devlin Stone ...
Everybody is plotting to grab absolute power without an actual power structure to get them there and nobody does the default that most leaders and autocrats have done since the dawn of time, get rich by plundering the state ...
The population of the Inner Sphere is invisible, so is the actual state, which is merely an extension of the will of the house leaders, the military is also largely invisible, at least all that doesn't look like a mech or a really impressive tank. Just do away with the guys who run your supplies, cook your food, dig your latrines and your mighty Clan Warriors end up dying in their own filth.
I love Battletech, and it remains a plausible SF gaming universe and is incredibly detailed, but many of the highly important points are either missing or glossed over, if not handwaved. I think an update is possible, but it would require careful work that wouldn't generate a single penny to the makers.
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ghostrider
05/31/18 01:43 PM
66.74.61.223
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The fact alot of tech the League should have had during the 'golden years' should still be around. Yes, war would have made it harder to maintain across every world, but the non military tech, even those like surgical procedures as well as the equipment should have survived in multiple states and fashions. Even if it is only the most advanced world having it, it should be there.
And all the bases found with League tech? Yet not a one of them had any tech more advanced then the IS had 300 years later with the decline of tech? Like the general of the base would not have had the most advanced sports hover car with the latest in lift technology that could have advanced hover craft or the lighter engine that could have lightened the ICE engines? Even the rich mansions buried deep underground in some forgotten cave, only to be found in the 3000's, yet never seen? The Helm core. They found units that were with that find, yet none had the advanced tech in them? No robotic surgery tables that would allow someone with spinal injuries to walk again? No data on regeneration for the IS even if it was still experimental? Nothing along any of those lines?
I do understand they focused on the military aspects while downloading it, but allowing a full trained soldier to walk again is not to be ignored. Yes, life is cheap in the game. But training isn't.
The makers could make money off this with actually having units that used tech that wasn't like the new smart phones advancement over last years models. Maybe something like going from the walkie talkies of old, to the brand new phones coming out would make it seem like the 'mythical' League tech of old.
The engines on the Midway carrier verse the Nuke tech ones now is a great upgrade. But squat if you had the nuke tech when you built the Midway. That is a feeling I get with the story line.
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Retry
05/31/18 02:54 PM
174.70.184.145
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Quote:
Tanks and infantry are great as planetary garrisons, as it stands now they are awful for interstellar warfare. Moving an RCT will not only need to move their troops and equipment, but also supplies, soldiers need water, food, toilet paper, a change of clothes, fuel for cooking, replacement parts, ammo, equipment to move it all once it arrives at destination, you would need transport to follow your frontline troops, logistic elements, you may need to build latrines, landing fields, field bases, you need generators to power all the equipment if only for the staff's computers etc ...
Infantry yes, tanks, sort of. 1 ton of consumables in a cargo bay can feed 200 people for 1 day when transporting people in passenger quarters according to Strat Ops, but it's much less efficient if you're transporting people in a transport bay (10x less) or as bulk cargo (40x less). A 'Mech bay needs 2 people: a technician and the pilot (presumably 3 if you go for something with a dual cockpit, tripod cockpit, or command console). A light vehicle bay needs at most 4 crewmen and a technician. A heavy vehicle bay needs up to 7 crewmen and a technician. For the weight of a full 'Mech bay, you can install a heavy vehicle bay for transporting a 6-crew 90 ton tank and put in 7 second-class for the crew and technician (in order to reduce consumable consumption in transit) and actually end up with a smaller en-route logistical trail than the far less efficient bay arrangement. (7 crew in 2nd class bays will consume 1 ton of consumables in 28.5 days or so, the 'Mech crew in their bay does so in 10 days). Admittedly, it doesn't take too much extra mass to do the same thing for Battlemechs, but still.
A lot of 'Mech company and battalion carries can be converted to light armor company and battalion carriers, even with integrated BA units, with extra 2nd-class housing and cargo to feed the extre men and with extra amenities (comms equipment, MASH stuff, field kitchens), while still keeping a fairly small logistical footprint if you're careful enough with the design.
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AmaroqStarwind
06/03/18 12:26 PM
108.255.82.176
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I understand that it is called BattleTech, but I do feel that the number and frequency of wars is just a little bit unrealistically high. In a more realistic setting, brief periods of peace where everyone needs to rest and reload, and occasionally settle differences between eachother, need to happen more frequently in the timeline, even if they're only a few years long among decades of warfare.
Also, if two warring factions suddenly break bread and become a superpower, don't make them have a civil war! Just focus on two other warring factions. And so that you can keep selling technical readouts and scenario packs and stuff even during in-universe peacetime, maybe give the industrial sector a look as well. In fact, that's part of the reason I'm trying to write MechLaborer and XTRO: Heavy Industry. And I guarantee that you could make some awesome scenarios that have very little to no fighting, but still have a form of action. For example, say a mining accident happens on a planet with high tectonic activity, and mercenaries need to be sent to rescue the trapped miners. Or perhaps naval forces are sent to do search and rescue in a city that got hit by a very bad tropical storm or super hurricane, and is still extremely flooded.
Discord: Amaroq the Kitsune#1092
Telegram: @Lycanphoenix
MechEngine (Alpha) -- On Hiatus
The Scientist Caste has determined that time travel is dishonorable. |
ghostrider
06/03/18 08:45 PM
66.74.61.223
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Retry.
I believe it was being suggested that supporting the mechwarrior and possible tech is much easier on normal every day supplies then a squad of infantry or the tank crew. Feeding 12 to 24 people from a mech company is easier on these types of supplies then the company of infantry or the company of vehicles.
As for needing other parts, the vehicle/mech issue may be argued some.
AS.
There are times of peace in the game. But the developers do not sit around waiting for them to be done. Few people want to play garrison duty where nothing happens.
I realized this when playing the original mechwarrior. My character was bare 5 years older when they jumped 20 years.
It seems like most agree the writers and story line was screwed up by merging the FS and LC. It does seem like alot of those in the nations would want something going, yet those that constantly have to deal with raids would not want a border realm to be involved.
The LC/FWL issue comes to mind.
Which makes me wonder. Were the writers trying to make the FC a new FWL? All the areas fighting each other, even if it was just on the political battlefield?
Had they done something with the FWL, they may have been able to deal with the FC in a none civil war way. Just have the merger and even 4th war happen differently. It could still have happened, but the FS have to use smaller amounts of troops, and have the FWL actually do more against the LC. Even a treaty for so long would have benefitted the FWL. Might have even given them a chance to gain enough backing to go to war. Removing the CC would have really given them a boost.
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