Karagin
03/26/02 11:17 PM
63.173.170.208
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Sorry my friend, but the disclaimer don't mean squat...everyone knows who you are and they can see that how you act here and else where is a reflection back on FanPro and Battletech as whole.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightmare
03/26/02 11:20 PM
194.251.240.107
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At the Gates of Hell, from the 4th Succession War BattlePack.
Kurita force: Attackers
Dragon DRG-1N BV 952
Cyclops CP-10-Z BV 965
Catapult CPLT-C1 BV 1,165
Trebuchet TBT-5N BV 864
Total BV:3,946
Dragoons: Defenders
Wolfhound WLF-1 BV 736 (1,156)
Hoplite HOP-4B BV 994 (1,561)
Total BV: 1,700 (2,717)
In parenthesis are adjusted BV values for high skills.
Gunnery 1, Piloting 2 gets a multiplier of 1,57.
2,717 is certainly less than 3,946, but not hopeless. Besides,
the Dragoons get a Marginal Victory by taking out three Kurita units, which shouldn`t be totally impossible. Kurita can`t get a MV, and only way for either side to get a Decisive Victory is to destroy all enemy units.
Advice for Evil Overlords:
My legions of terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
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Karagin
03/26/02 11:22 PM
63.173.170.208
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Thank you for the info...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightmare
03/26/02 11:24 PM
194.251.240.107
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NP, but how the hell did you manage to fill two pages while I read my 4th SWBP and sought out the modifiers?
Advice for Evil Overlords:
My legions of terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
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Warner_Doles
03/26/02 11:25 PM
206.27.48.9
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***DISCLAIMER: This is my personal opinion of which has no bearing on anything or is it associated with what I do. Nor am I pressing it on anyone or forcing anyone to believe what I believe in or am I trying to change your beliefs nor am I trying to silence anyone from speaking. I am only sounding off here in posting my very personal opinion on a subject that I would like to talk about. I am forced to put this disclaimer here to avoid anyone’s misinterpretation or to use my words in an adverse way to make me or what I said look bad.***
Yeah and they will see that I tried to set the record straight. So what. You don't like what I said, here percentor_martial@classicbattletech.com tell Randall that I made you look bad because you tried to make him out to be something he wasn't and show him all the facts here in the posts. Otherwise quit whinning and try to put a poll together in a more proper manner.
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Karagin
03/26/02 11:26 PM
63.173.170.208
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Don't know...looking forward to the finial tally of the votes on this...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Warner_Doles
03/26/02 11:29 PM
206.27.48.9
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***DISCLAIMER: This is my personal opinion of which has no bearing on anything or is it associated with what I do. Nor am I pressing it on anyone or forcing anyone to believe what I believe in or am I trying to change your beliefs nor am I trying to silence anyone from speaking. I am only sounding off here in posting my very personal opinion on a subject that I would like to talk about. I am forced to put this disclaimer here to avoid anyone’s misinterpretation or to use my words in an adverse way to make me or what I said look bad.***
The modifier for elite pilot skills shown in the book is 1.75. The skills are listed as Pilot/Gunnery (2/1). Apply that and you'll see that the number actually higher and the BV is only different by less then 900.
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BigCol
03/26/02 11:40 PM
131.181.127.39
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I think when one is using the BV system, one should use all of it. The BV system does take into account the differences in levels of both the Piloting and Gunnery abilities.
So therefore when one asks if a situation is balanced, one should present all the facts.
And by saying that all players should know the BV system is not correct. I have played the game for 15 years or so, but have never really used the BV system. We go on tonnage really and use 4/5 gun/pilot. Only recently have I really started to look at it. Just to see if I can abuse it really.
Cheers
Col
I don't want the world...
I just want your half...
Ana Ng - They Might be Giants
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Nightmare
03/26/02 11:40 PM
194.251.240.107
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Funny. Both TDB and BMD had 1,57.
HMPro has - hmm 1,75. So it`s been changed
at some point then. I stand corrected.
Kurita at 3,946
Dragoons at 3,028
Total difference is 918
Advice for Evil Overlords:
My legions of terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
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BigCol
03/26/02 11:44 PM
131.181.127.39
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Be carefulm of TDB Mike. It does have probs with the maths behind BV.
I will be at TBW on Sunday. Looking forward to it.
Cheers
Col
I don't want the world...
I just want your half...
Ana Ng - They Might be Giants
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Nightmare
03/27/02 12:01 AM
194.251.240.107
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I`m not Mike, but thanks anyway. Oh, BMD had the wrong number too.
Advice for Evil Overlords:
My legions of terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
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BigCol
03/27/02 12:07 AM
131.181.127.39
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Whoops.
I saw the night part of your name and read no more. Sorry if I caused offense.
Cheers
Col
I don't want the world...
I just want your half...
Ana Ng - They Might be Giants
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Greyslayer
03/27/02 04:03 AM
63.12.141.86
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How about just saying what is wrong with the above question quoting your facts for the problem and be done with it? If it was an honest mistake Karagin might own up to it and maybe even thank you for pointing it out...
Such a low personal attack for at the time could've been an honest mistake by Karagin.
Greyslayer
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Chunga
03/27/02 09:28 AM
156.55.131.250
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That's the problem, Karagin will never admit he's wrong. Plus, he made this a personal attack against the writers long before us.
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Karagin
03/27/02 11:43 AM
63.173.170.13
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His opinion yes, insults and attacks no...and that is all he did here along with his buddy Chunga...if he had posted hey you need to adjust the BV by this number, then explain why and NOT come in with his normal heavy hand tactics then it would have been nothing but his opinion. BUT nope he came in with guns blazing and once again shows that he will go out of his way to destroy something he doesn't like.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Chunga
03/27/02 11:45 AM
156.55.131.250
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If you hadn't completely misrepresented the facts in the first place, we wouldn't have had to call you on it.
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Karagin
03/27/02 01:20 PM
63.173.170.203
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That is where it's from the 4th War Battlepack...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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novakitty
03/27/02 02:15 PM
209.242.100.230
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About 60 replies to one question. The phrasing of the question has been debated, and the original poster has been personally insulted by people who I have not seen post often.
Flame wars are easier and more common than I first thought...
(Note: this is the only reply I intend to make at this post, so feel free to respond in a flaming manner if you feel that you have been specifically insulted by this post, I will read them and laugh)
meow
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KhanJackalMoreau
03/27/02 02:19 PM
208.140.76.57
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Hey.
Stop arguing. Cool?
Now more than ever. (c)
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KhanJackalMoreau
03/27/02 04:04 PM
208.140.76.57
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This wasn't a flame war. This was a bunch of people with history acting out the tired moves of long dead ancient flamewars.
It's true, it's pretty bad.
But see, it doesn't have to be this way.
We could talk about Spiders.
I like Spiders. 8/12/8. Fast. I like.
Now more than ever. (c)
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novakitty
03/27/02 05:55 PM
209.242.100.230
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My favorite targets (who were playing some lucky IS attempted mercs) had an easy job, two personally designed mechs (theirs) vs. two lances of lvl 1 IS light mechs. Every part of the opposition died as expected except the Spider, which almost killed the 100 ton peice of munch that one of them designed. The salvage and the pay for the job barely covered fixing that monstrosity.
meow
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BigCol
03/27/02 06:27 PM
210.49.120.93
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Spiders are fun. I like the version with the Flamer. I suppose that just shows the pyro tendencies I have. LoL.
Cheers
Col
I don't want the world...
I just want your half...
Ana Ng - They Might be Giants
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Greyslayer
03/27/02 06:59 PM
63.12.147.43
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On other boards maybe. Sarna hasn't had these levels of problems for awhile. I could still back Karagin with other facts for a disparity of BV in this system though. If you remember in one of the earlier Fasa battlechats held by Nystal on the Fasa site a couple of years back there was a statement to the effect that BV does not take into account superior numbers (but it does take into account superior gunnery and piloting). This would add to a 'complete understanding of bv' as you and others have said earlier not just understanding the mere numeric values of said units.
If he had made a personal attack against an author on another board KEEP IT THERE. I believe Warner's CBT has said it well enough with keeping problems from other boards on those boards. I believe you follow that mantra, so only call Karagin on it and don't go 'but he did it on another board thus allowing me to muddy this one'.
I know most of the time Karagin can be petty, there is no need to stoop to that level or do a pre-emptive strike either. Let tha facts fall as they are and let those that post on this board sift them out by now most of those who post here should know that Karagin is one-sided on nearly everything.
Greyslayer
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raven
03/27/02 07:34 PM
68.81.155.30
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they do but not in his post
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raven
03/27/02 07:45 PM
68.81.155.30
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we can have flamewars with them, that would be cool.
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Nightward
03/27/02 09:03 PM
132.234.1.13
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I thought your point was that one side had half the BVs of the other anyway...
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Karagin
03/27/02 09:05 PM
63.173.170.139
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I believe I said that...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightward
03/27/02 09:08 PM
132.234.1.13
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So one side has a clear advantage (twice the numbers, over twice the tonnage, and twice the BV) of the other and you wonder why it is a mismatch?
When BVs do not prevail, logic should. Obviously, the Kuritan force has the advantage. However, skillful play and a host of other factors can minimise or remove that advantage. It depends upon the players, map, and luck involved.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Karagin
03/27/02 09:26 PM
63.173.170.139
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That was my point, sadly this got turn into flame war at some point...the bottom line is the BV and numbers clearly favor the Kurtians...and I agree that it is possible for them to lose, but it would take almost a green player to have that happen IMHO.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightward
03/27/02 09:32 PM
132.234.1.13
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Come on, Karagin...you knew when you posted this it would lead to a flame war, and your deliberatly flammatory comments elsewhere in this thread only added to the problem. Whilst I enjoy watching the pyrotechnics as much as you obviously do, try to be a bit more diplomatic...
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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