Chas
08/14/02 12:29 PM
66.187.6.61
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In reply to:
Hey Chas...who made you knight earrant around here?
Hey Karagin. How about you stop with the little attacks on my character and stick to the topic?
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"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
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Karagin
08/14/02 12:33 PM
63.173.170.49
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How about you do the same?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Chas
08/14/02 12:34 PM
66.187.6.61
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In reply to:
What it tells me is the add water get what ever you need line of thinking is still around...
Which tells me that you still believe they just pull things out of their *** on the spur of the moment. Which is unfortunate.
When they tell you that they HAVE thought through this stuff, and worked it from multiple angles, and foreshadowed the heck out of it previously, you still think they just pull a cord and plot devices pop up.
Apparently you keep discounting the fact that there are yearly (if not more often) braiinstorming sessions by the developers to chart out the path of the universe several years prior to anything seeing print.
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"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
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Karagin
08/14/02 12:34 PM
63.173.170.49
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None of this has anything to do with the topic so how about we get back on topic and stay there okay?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/14/02 12:37 PM
63.173.170.49
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Not forgetting anything...I am basing my disbelief of this on the game facts as given and then applying some simple logic to the matter.
Again I am sure the rabbit will be very colorful once it comes out, but right now the facts and the idea of the Jihad don't match up in my opinion.
Is that to hard for you to believe? Is it to much for you or others to see that the fans can think and actually look at things and not believe it's possible based on and using game facts?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Chas
08/14/02 12:43 PM
66.187.6.61
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The problem is that you're being VERY selective in which game facts you use to formulate your hypothesis.
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"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
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Karagin
08/14/02 12:46 PM
63.173.170.49
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If you say so...now back to the topic.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Chas
08/14/02 12:50 PM
66.187.6.61
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In reply to:
If you say so
I do say so.
Thank you for bowing to the wisdom of The Chas.
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
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Bob_Richter
08/14/02 12:53 PM
4.35.174.250
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Consider how much money you'd make off the FWL's HP comm alone. Then add a percentage of the FWL's arms deals.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
08/14/02 12:56 PM
4.35.174.250
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-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
08/14/02 01:00 PM
63.173.170.49
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NOT.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/14/02 01:08 PM
63.173.170.49
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And the watch it all go away as you buy mechs, ammo and other supplies, and hire or buy all the mercs and transport you can get...along with paying for all the covert ops that you will need...
Yes lots of money for a short peroid of time and then it's all gone...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Bob_Richter
08/14/02 01:45 PM
4.35.174.250
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...because by the time your bills come due, you're MASTER OF THE BLOODY UNIVERSE.
Or not.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Karagin
08/14/02 03:05 PM
63.173.170.59
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Interesting...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/15/02 04:18 AM
63.173.170.181
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Yawn...bottom line is they don't enough money or material or manpower...and having Terra doesn't give them much of anything...but believe what you want...and I am sure the water theory of growing mechs and such will hold out.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
08/15/02 04:20 AM
63.173.170.181
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And maybe the Empoer allwoed them to use his clone labs on Byss and other planets in exchange for Mechs...or maybe the aliens from Far Country are allied with WoB and that is were they are getting their manpower...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Greyslayer
08/15/02 04:42 AM
216.14.192.226
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'If you hire a few merc units every couple months, over the course of 15 years. What's going to tip WolfNet off?'
Mercs are NOT stationary units. Once they finish their contract they get another one with the usual signing bonuses and so on. Are you seriously trying to tell me that they would keep mercenaries on say Retainer Contract for multiple years? Ouch!!! I've done the maths of a simple company on something like this for a year, not a very pretty value to be paid. Now when talking regiments of mercs under this system then it certainly drains say a House Coffer least of all some banana-split faction like WOB.
Now if I remember rightly Woflnet is better than ROM so just how small a takeup would trigger such an efficient force to realise the threat that WOB is posing toward merc units?
Greyslayer
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Nightmare
08/15/02 05:27 AM
194.251.240.106
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Obviously they only start the large-scale treachery when their attack is, say, 4-6 months off. It`s not uncommon for mercs to be on long assignments, is it? And it`s probably not uncommon for merc units to be destroyed in combat either. Just report a few small ones totally annihilated once in a while and assign the warriors somewhere they can`t get out. Like Mars? If your brainwashing techniques are good many of them will be loyal wobblies by the time your attack is about to launch.
Advice for Evil Overlords:
My legions of terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
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Karagin
08/15/02 05:32 AM
63.173.170.181
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And the money to cover this is coming from where? Must be the money tree they have growing out back of WoB HQ...
All of this cost money, the need to keep the mercs in training, or do expect us to believe they sit around and do nothing? The money spent to KEEP OUT the prying eyes of CS ROM and WOLFNET, the money spent on transporting these merc units to their super seceret bases...it all adds up to them going BROKE setting this up..I wish I had their money tree then I could really buy that house that my girlfriend hinted at the other day...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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masdog5
08/15/02 05:33 AM
205.213.145.211
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Who says they have to have alot of men, materiel, and man-power to start this Jihad? Although the Wobbies may be crazy, they arent stupid. WOB, like Comstar before it, has a re-education program that is probably second to none in the IS, and re-educating POWs and civies to fight with them cant be that hard.
Also, one way an army keeps itself stocked is by picking up supplies as it goes along. The Houses all have supply depots that could easily be taken and used to supply Blakist units in combat.
But none of this matters right now. None of hte books involving the Jihad are out yet, and we wont know anything for sure until htey do come out. Until then, its pointless to debate(or shoot down ideas about canon merc groups) this.
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Greyslayer
08/15/02 05:36 AM
216.14.192.226
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The amount of resources you are spending on something like this would be better spent on getting people trained and in perfectly good mechs rather than the usually (unless you use FM:Mercs) poorly quality mercenary ones.
They still have Sandhurst on Terra right? Spend their resources there than trying to longterm mercenaries. the only advantage mercs provide is if you need a force to do something via a phoney employer... again though too much and the elite Wolfnet might crack who is doing or the reasons for the actions that are taking place and who is behind this. This could in effect make it very hard for Wobbies to use Harlech mercs.
Greyslayer
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Karagin
08/15/02 05:39 AM
63.173.170.181
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Pointless to debate? Sorry but with the given facts from the source material that is out NONE of it supports WoB having anything near enough of a force to do anything on scale of this Jihad we are expect to believe.
Yes, they can overrun house supply depots...but that doesn't give them the intinal numbers of men and material to start this little war nor does it explain HOW they got the billion man army to start with...as for the re-education camps...yes they have some right now, but not enough to give them mindless hoards of men and women willing to die for the greater glory of Blake and his twisted followers...
Sorry but the debate is about the lack of credital canon facts to support WoB being able to pull this off. And as others have said on many a BT message board the end results will be trite and contrived. So when the rabbit get's pulled out of the hat it should be a fimilar site to us since we have seen it before. Water+mechs= new factories...Water+one training site= millions of such sites...I think you see where I am going with this...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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masdog5
08/15/02 05:54 AM
205.213.145.211
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In the universe and timeframe that this occurs, numbers wouldnt be as important. 1st and foremost, there is a chaos march for them to conquer, which, although upseting or worrying the great houses, they would be too preoccupied with their own dealings to worry about this, imho.
Militarily, the greatest threat to the WOB just finished up a damaging civil war that did considerable damage to its military. The FWL, with the WOB primus at its head, would look the other way, and the CC and DC are busy integrating the NCs and former Sarna march worlds into their governments.
I think we are purposely being left in the dark about the WOBs actual capabilities. Nothing overt has been said about them except that they are interested in joining the Star League. If I remember SoF correctly, that application is being considered. That right there should make you stop and wonder about what is going on in the heads of the IS leaders.
Although you may disagree with me on this, one of the beauties of a universe as large as Battletech is they cant possibly catalogue everything. This gives the storyline developers and writers time to create any canon they need to fill the holes.
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Karagin
08/15/02 05:57 AM
63.173.170.181
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Basic canon facts are working against them on this but hey that has never stopped them before...
And even with the Civil War the FS and LC can still hold their own or would we not see Laio or Marik attacking them if this was not the case? But it's believable for WoB do the attack and they (FS/LC) can't do much to stop them...okay sure right...
I will agree with you on one point the writers can do anything they want...until the fans get tired of the same stories lines and water based factories popping up...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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realworldviews
08/15/02 12:16 PM
24.98.65.7
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Maybe it IS because they ARE going broke that they decide to launch the Jihad. Cause if you lose people can't make you pay themcause you will no longer be around, and if you win then you can pay them with what you take during the war. 
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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Karagin
08/15/02 01:49 PM
63.173.170.224
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Now that would be a logical reason...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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realworldviews
08/15/02 02:34 PM
24.98.138.181
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Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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Karagin
08/15/02 03:23 PM
63.173.170.201
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Logic is NOT something that is used a lot in the BT universe...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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PeterSmith
08/15/02 04:40 PM
4.17.223.29
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"Pointless to debate? Sorry but with the given facts from the source material that is out NONE of it supports WoB having anything near enough of a force to do anything on scale of this Jihad we are expect to believe."
Storms of Fate gives the WoB money. Lots and lots of money. WoB also has Terra and Gibson for production (moreso the first than the second). Even with the Terran system being mined out, ComGuards was still able to produce new WarShips. Takes money to do it, so what's preventing the WoB from doing the same?
Field Manual: ComStar and Field Manual: Periphery both state that the WoB are hiring mercenary units, dispite what happened with the 21st Century Lancers.
Face it, the Word of Blake is flush. 15% of all arms transactions to everybody outside of the Free Worlds League borders, figure from 3054 to 3064. Plus anything from running HPGs. Plus the licensing and/or assistance for the WarShip programs of the FWL and the CC. Plus whatever assets they took with them when they went to Gibson. Plus whatever they seized when they returned to Terra.
Peter Smith
Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat.
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Karagin
08/15/02 05:30 PM
63.173.170.161
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Sure right okay whatever...sorry I don't buy it and won't until all the facts that are not out there on table show up, because right now EVEN WITH THE FWL MONEY they can't do everything that is being claimed and still be a threat to pull of the Jihad.
So on that note...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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