my point of view

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wolfcannon
10/01/02 07:57 AM
216.76.237.38

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it seems that a large amount of playres are following the
dark age mechwarrior style that wizkids is promoting.

i for one will continue to follow the original timeline established
by fasa before their demise. i know that this may upset or
offend some people, i dont care, i am still a newbie to gamemastering in the battletech world but i love the fasa battletech not the wizkid battletech.

long live the Star League!
Clan Wolf in Exile
328th Assault Cluster(the Lion Hearted)
Bravo Trinary
Alpha Star
Star Captain James Sword
CrayModerator
10/01/02 09:09 AM
64.83.29.242

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Hey, you know the WoB jihad was planned by FASA, right?
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Karagin
10/01/02 09:28 AM
63.173.170.79

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MWDA has a following...Battletech has a bigger and stronger one.

One has almost 20 years of fans the other has less then a years worth.

Good to know you are standing by the game no matter what. Welcome to Sarna!
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
Bob_Richter
10/01/02 12:01 PM
4.35.174.250

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but MWDA *IS* Battletech. The timeline set up there is the logical (well, in the FASA way of thinking) evolution of the timeline as we know it.

THE SAME PEOPLE now control the timeline that controlled it at FASA, and it's the same setting.

That being as it is, I tried MWDA. It's cool. But that doesn't mean I'm about to abandon Battletech.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
Karagin
10/01/02 02:14 PM
63.173.170.108

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Since they and FP are promtoing two as TWO DIFFERENT games that happen to share the same universe and timeline...so with that OFFICAL stance BT is NOT MWDA.

I too have tried the game...found it to be a waste of time, weapon ranges and movement ranges being the same means nothing can gain any kind of advantage and of the six battle I played in they came down to Vietnam style infantry fights...if you don't follow that let me put it this way...small infantry battles.

So while I am glad you liked MWDA it's not Battletech.
Karagin

Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
wolfcannon
10/02/02 07:02 AM
216.76.238.173

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i dont care if it was or not, it happened after wizkids took over
battletech from fasa, so that goes back to what i posted about
staying in the timeline before fasa fell.

Long Live The Star League!!!
Clan Wolf in Exile
328th Assault Cluster(the Lion Hearted)
Bravo Trinary
Alpha Star
Star Captain James Sword
Durango
10/02/02 04:24 PM
65.212.106.148

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Um...point of order, sir.

MWDA isn't Battletech. It's MechWarrior.

Totally different game, and as far as I'm concerned, a totally different story.

MechWarrior was BASED on Battletech, but with the destruction of everything Battletech related in the New Mage Tech Fantasy Story line, it's most decidedly not Battletech any more.

And until Battletech ceases to exist (which it will, a demise hastened by this new overpriced cheapo plastic posable action figure farce), Battletech will be Battletech...MechWarrior will be a joke of an overpriced "collectible" "game".

...and if ever the twain meet, that will be the end of real Battletech.
Bob_Richter
10/02/02 11:52 PM
4.35.174.250

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>>>MWDA isn't Battletech. It's MechWarrior.<<<

Same thing.

The original title was "Battletech: Phoenix Rising."

"Mechwarrior" is a name given to the roleplaying and PC games set in the Battletech Universe.

Clearly, a Mechwarrior product is closely linked with Battletech.

MWDA is Battletech.

>>>Totally different game, and as far as I'm concerned, a totally different story.<<<

Totally different game, yes, but the same story.

Like it or not.

As the remainder of your post is senseless babble, I shall not bother to quote it.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
Bob_Richter
10/02/02 11:53 PM
4.35.174.250

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>>>i dont care if it was or not, it happened after wizkids took over
battletech from fasa,<<<

A meaningless distinction. The game line may have changed corporations, but the timeline did not change developers.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
Acolyte
10/03/02 01:29 AM
142.179.27.248

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*Blink, Blink*
Aco looks over at his stack of books: Villians and Vigilantes, Bushido, Gamaworld, Battlestar Galactica, 1st ed AD&D, ect... all of which he still plays.

*Blink, Blink*
BattleTech wil die?

Light a fire for a man, and you keep him warm for one night,
Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Acolyte
wolfcannon
10/04/02 07:06 AM
216.76.237.69

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agian i reinstate that this happened after fasa fell.
you have your opinion, i have mine. you want to follow the
current timeline that is your choice, not mine. ill stay with the
timeline that im playing with.
this is my choice. i dont like MWDA and i dont like the way the
current battletech universe is going, so i chose to ignore the
wizkids/fasa timeline and will continue with my games timeline!!!!!!!
Long Live the Star League!!!!
Clan Wolf in Exile
328th Assault Cluster(the Lion Hearted)
Bravo Trinary
Alpha Star
Star Captain James Sword
CrayModerator
10/04/02 07:40 AM
64.83.29.242

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>agian i reinstate that this happened after fasa fell.

You don't like what FASA wrote for the jihad?
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
novakitty
10/04/02 12:44 PM
192.195.234.26

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If you play Battletech (or any RPG, board game, and even some card games), there is no law saying that you must follow the rules, storyline, or anything else that was officially produced with the copyright of the game authors. You can, if all the players are willing, recreate D-Day in AD&D. You can replay the War of 1812 with the Battletech infantry rules. You can decree that the Star League never fell, and continue a storyline from that, you can even decree that the Star League never even was founded and work from that.

The only limitations to using your own branch off the timeline are the players imaginations and the fact that any fanfic you write about what you accomplished will have no chance of being integrated into the official fiction without massive changes.

Once you buy the game, what you do with it is your business, if you choose to never use anything except level 1 tech, you have the right to do so, if you choose to put a Shadowrun mage in the cockpit of a Jenner, you may (unless your opponents dislike the occasional force 7 stunball aimed at their pilots).
meow
Cadet
10/04/02 07:20 PM
206.102.35.30

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Has Bills or any of those working for FASA ever publically said that the WOB Jihad (nukes and all) was actually planned in the form it is unravelling? I mean we all know WOB had something up their sleaves, but did any of those high muckety mucks ever say they had planned on nuking Outreach and the capitals of the Clan OZs? Or is all this just rewriting history to make the BT universe fit in with the MWDA universe?
Does not play well with others.
Warner_Doles
10/04/02 11:21 PM
206.27.48.9

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"Has Bills or any of those working for FASA ever publically said that the WOB Jihad (nukes and all) was actually planned in the form it is unravelling?"

Yes. The Jihad was planned and mapped out nearly 4 years ago. MWDA's timeline was worked up and adapted to the Jihad as well as the scope of the Jihad and its length had been altered to fit too. None of the BattleTech Universe has been rewritten or changed no matter what has been said. In time Cadet, all things will be revealed.
Lance_Hawkins
10/05/02 09:07 AM
80.203.33.226

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According to Christopher "Bones" Throssen:


http://www.classicbattletech.com/w3t/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=authors&Number=253512&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=93

Or:

"Well, I *could* tell you, but that, well, would be telling. We still haven't gotten anywhere near the "last" things we figured out at the last summit.

If you don't read the rest of this board or the WizKids site, don't look at anything below this line!!!

The Jihad has been planned for years. Many of the general events during the Jihad got sketched out (including the "fun" to be had on Outreach).

As far as where WizKids came in.... well, Randall and Loren are in a better position to answer things there.

But, really, there's YEARS of stuff that we laid down at FASA two years ago.

Ask this question again in a few years....

Chris "Bones" Trossen "
I have seen the best of men go past, I do not want to be the last.
wolfcannon
10/06/02 11:28 AM
216.76.236.159

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ok let me put it in plain english, no i dont like this jihad thing
with the blakies. i hate it, so saying that i am planning to
continue playing in the timeline that my game is set in and the
jihad be nuked!! sorry if this offends some people.
Clan Wolf in Exile
328th Assault Cluster(the Lion Hearted)
Bravo Trinary
Alpha Star
Star Captain James Sword
Warner_Doles
10/06/02 03:13 PM
206.27.48.9

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In reply to:

'ok let me put it in plain english, no i dont like this jihad thing with the blakies. i hate it, so saying that i am planning to continue playing in the timeline that my game is set in and the jihad be nuked!! sorry if this offends some people.'


Not in the least bit. I would hope though you'd wait until we can tell you the full story before making such a decision. But hey that's your choice. Do you think my own timeline matched up to the events of what has happened to the BattleTech Universe prior to my joining the writing team? Nope. Mine is still different. I appaulled you in your decision. It means that you are keeping the game alive. Remember though, if you want others to respect you and your decision and game, do so with them. We are here in this game to have fun no matter what.
wolfcannon
10/06/02 06:03 PM
216.76.238.172

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i agree warner, and i do respect the players and gamesmasters who accept what is happening to the battletech game. that is why this started out as called my point of view. not the whole battletech players point of view.
those who agree and disagree with what i have expressed here are free to do so, and i am having fun reading the written views of other fans like me and having my game twist
and turn and seeing charecters grow and die and develop from a player from a total green charecter sheet to a well rounded player who can adlib within his charecter and make the game more enjoyable for him/her. as i have stated before that i mean no personal disrespect for anyone and i hope that none is taken by any of the fans who visit this site.
Clan Wolf in Exile
328th Assault Cluster(the Lion Hearted)
Bravo Trinary
Alpha Star
Star Captain James Sword
wolfcannon
10/06/02 07:49 PM
216.76.236.173

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LOL!! that was interesting. by the way i have a dragonlance
game where there are three united states cities that have been transported from earth to Krynn.
Clan Wolf in Exile
328th Assault Cluster(the Lion Hearted)
Bravo Trinary
Alpha Star
Star Captain James Sword
The_Nice_Guy
10/07/02 11:15 AM
137.132.3.7

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IMO, the jihad was a great idea. All out war, nobody survives unscathed. Heck, they can even have the home clans roaring in to get whacked by nukes, especially the Star Adders. No better equalizer than that!

What I dislike was how the jihad was resolved. Utterly and completely absurd. I have a sneaking suspicion the jihad would not be covered in the same detail as the FC Civil War, simply because it might not be possible to cover up all those Atlas sized holes in the plot.

This is my version of what could have been.

The Wobblies get pounded flat in the end, but only wreckage is left of the human sphere, with the Houses having collapsed totally from overwhelming damage to government and infrastructure(total nuclear destruction). Most of the current leaders are dead or assassinated.

Many worlds, cut off from their neighbours by severe jumpship losses, struggle to retain their standards of living, failing more often than not, becoming de facto independents, like just before the formation of the Successor States, in 2300-2400s. Populations drop drastically on certain worlds, as they receive little food supply.

Important production worlds like Talon, Kathil, Irian etc were smashed flat by massive nukes, and even capital worlds like New Avalon and Luthien were not spared. This results in Battlemechs becoming even rarer than in 3025 due to the loss of so many facilities, forcing many conquerors to rely on retrofitted workmechs, tanks and whatever comes to hand.

The few remaining house units dissolve as warriors devoid of leadership strike out for themselves, eager to gain their own fortunes.

It's 3090, and anyone who wants a piece of the universe can grab it with the proper tools. Some scions of the houses(great and lesser) remain, and seek to reestablish themselves, but they have limited resources like the rest. The clans are shattered, and have withdrawn from the Inner Sphere completely, vowing to return once they have regained their strength.

Now that is a complete clean slate. Factions like the ones we know, love, and hate are still there, but diminished in power. Players can play independents, or any of the factions. The storyline will consist of a series of campaigns fought by certain chracters as they carve out new kingdoms.

In essence, a return to the time of the formation of the successor states, except with limited HPG and mech technology available.

My idea for an overall storyline will follow a certain scion of three Great Houses as he tries to forge a new nation from the ashes, struggling with his opposed heritage, and even the notion of his own right to leadership. He is helped by his two uncles, one liberated and freed from the control of the Wobbies during the last battle for Terra, the other a mystic with the decimated Clan Nova Cat.

So what do you guys think?

The Nice Guy
Beyond common courage. The mark of a true soldier.
Greyslayer
10/07/02 11:30 AM
216.14.192.226

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Sounds alot better than the 'canon' there NG, give it a bit more fleshing out and give us here at sarna a further taste.

Also remember you don't have to use 'nukes' to smash factories. Orbital bombardment does not have to use nukes and doesn't make the ground unusable for years to come (they must've really hated the Wolf's Dragoons).

Greyslayer
novakitty
10/07/02 07:32 PM
192.195.234.26

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Which cities?
meow
wolfcannon
10/08/02 07:56 AM
216.76.237.54

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memphis tennessee

charleston south carolina

fayettville arkansas

Clan Wolf in Exile
328th Assault Cluster(the Lion Hearted)
Bravo Trinary
Alpha Star
Star Captain James Sword
realworldviews
10/08/02 09:27 AM
24.98.65.31

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Did they survive?
Memphis, Charleston and of all places why Fayettville, Arkansas?
How did you choose these?
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
wolfcannon
10/09/02 08:12 AM
216.76.237.204

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because i lived there for 20 yrs. I am arkansas born and raised. yes the cities survived and yes the people survived somewhat, see i had a charecter who ascended to god lvl and began experimenting with some spells and potions to make them better, as can be expected when you experiment things can go wrong. the spell i was working on was a transportation portal for the world of Krynn(Dragonlance)
and the spell went *haywire* for the lack of better wording, and created a portal that can create an exact duplicate and whatever is caught in it. the cities that i have chosen is because that is where i have travelled in the construction field of work and found gaming communities and ran my dragonlance game. oh and one other thing if a person is caught in it they possible be turned to any know race in the AD&D worlds.
Clan Wolf in Exile
328th Assault Cluster(the Lion Hearted)
Bravo Trinary
Alpha Star
Star Captain James Sword
realworldviews
10/09/02 01:01 PM
24.98.65.31

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That's pretty cool. I figured that it was something like that.
In many of the RPGs that I have run or been in we have use the city that we were in or one that most of us knew.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
wolfcannon
10/10/02 08:21 AM
216.76.236.126

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if you want i can give the partial stats that i have on the wormhole/portal in an e-mail or you use any way you want.
Clan Wolf in Exile
328th Assault Cluster(the Lion Hearted)
Bravo Trinary
Alpha Star
Star Captain James Sword
Durango
10/10/02 05:13 PM
65.212.106.148

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In reply to:

>>>MWDA isn't Battletech. It's MechWarrior.<<<

Same thing.

The original title was "Battletech: Phoenix Rising."

"Mechwarrior" is a name given to the roleplaying and PC games set in the Battletech Universe.

Clearly, a Mechwarrior product is closely linked with Battletech.




Clearly.

In reply to:

MWDA is Battletech.





Oh, and you were doing so well there. But clearly, MWDA is not Battletech. They may share some aspects (Big Robots Fight) but MWDA is not Battletech. If it were, then why have they made the new Overpriced Cheapo Plastic Posable Dolls in the wrong scale? Why have those silly dials at the bottom? Why use different rules?


In reply to:

>>>Totally different game, and as far as I'm concerned, a totally different story.<<<

Totally different game, yes, but the same story.

Like it or not.




Why, how confrontational. I DON'T like it.

In reply to:

Is the remainder of your post is senseless babble, I shall not bother to quote it.




If I avoided quoting senseless babble, then I never would have been able to respond to your post.

But since it was not senseless babble to begin with, and has direct relationsip to your misguided viewpoint, I'll re-post it.

You may thank me later.

MechWarrior was BASED on Battletech, but with the destruction of everything Battletech related in the New Mage Tech Fantasy Story line, it's most decidedly not Battletech any more.

And until Battletech ceases to exist (which it will, a demise hastened by this new overpriced cheapo plastic posable action figure farce), Battletech will be Battletech...MechWarrior will be a joke of an overpriced "collectible" "game".

...and if ever the twain meet, that will be the end of real Battletech.


And yes, this Overpriced Cheapo Plastic Posable Dolls in a rip-off "collectible" scheme will be the death of real Battletech...

But I think you have your head so far in the sand (or so far up some other nameless place) that you are unable to admit it...you're too busy playing with your plastic dolls. Well, have fun, in your new Magetech Fantasy Story Line.

I'll keep playing real Battletech.
SuperCharger
10/11/02 07:27 AM
12.83.71.237

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I find your storyline vastly superior to the one sketched out by WizKids. Whether the MWDA storyline originated at FASA or WizKids, I find it lacking in the depth and quality I expect from the BattleTech Universe. Characters acted like multi-dimensional characters, and their actions had consequences. The people were flawed; they were human. These qualities have somewhat thinned as of late, but seem to be nowhere near MWDA's depths of shallowness. MWDA so far appears to be a game version of the cartoon Zoids. Except of course for the fact that Zoids has it's own toys (which actually look cool, BTW).

And I know Warner and others keep saying "wait, oh just wait until we tell you the whole story," but the fact is, having seen what happens at the end of the story, I'm not sure I really care about how it happened, because the ending looks so...what's the word...inconsistent...unbelieveable...crappy. Wolf's Dragoons are gone, the Northwind Highlanders are only a single weak regiment (well, they do apparently form up 2 additional, even weaker regiments), and what is this crap about letting former WoBbies back into ComStar under an amnesty program? The only thing even halfway believable is the fact leftover WoBbies introduce a virus into the HPG network, and even that scenario has flaws.

Again, back to my original point, I liked NG's version of the Jihad much better.

Acolyte
10/11/02 05:40 PM
66.183.53.189

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I'll keep playing real BattleTech, too. I'll also keep playing real MechWarrior. The RPG, not the new rules set. Between people like us, BattleTech will not die. Ever. Whatever new rule sets or silly things they do to the universe. Hell, I'm using CyberPunk rules to run a Hero's game right now!

Rules and universe are separate things. If you wanted to, you could play a 3025 game with MageTech. I won't. But I might play a MWDA game with Classic rules. I might like the universe, who knows. But unless MageTech gets some big changes, I won't use the system.

Light a fire for a man, and you keep him warm for one night,
Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Acolyte
Bob_Richter
10/12/02 02:22 AM
4.35.174.250

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>>>Oh, and you were doing so well there. But clearly, MWDA is not Battletech. They may share some aspects (Big Robots Fight) but MWDA is not Battletech. If it were, then why have they made the new Overpriced Cheapo Plastic Posable Dolls in the wrong scale? Why have those silly dials at the bottom? Why use different rules?<<<

In case you missed it, Battletech games have been being used for years that did not use the familiar hexmaps, dice, and/or metallic minatures (Battletech itself doesn't even do THAT by default. Which is cheaper, plastic minis or cardboard counters?) Each of these auxillary Battletech games has had its own set of rules, and each has (indeed) used a different representational scale. Yet each was Battletech. In what way does MWDA differ?

>>>I DON'T like it.<<<

Your business. Doesn't change a thing.

>>>but with the destruction of everything Battletech related in the New Mage Tech Fantasy Story line, it's most decidedly not Battletech any more.<<<

Yes it is. Nothing about the change in company or product name makes this different than the release of the 20-year update, or the coming of the Clans. It IS the same universe, and this IS its future.

And no amount of mindless rhetoric from you will change that.

>>>And until Battletech ceases to exist (which it will, a demise hastened by this new overpriced cheapo plastic posable action figure farce), Battletech will be Battletech...MechWarrior will be a joke of an overpriced "collectible" "game".<<<

Battletech has been given a new lease on life by WizKids and their "cheapo plastic posable action figure farce." It will not die, though it almost did. You should be thanking WizKids, not cursing them. Battletech is Battletech. As is Battletech. And Mechwarrior. And Mechwarrior. And Mechwarrior. And Mechwarrior. And Mechwarrior. And Mechwarrior. And Mechwarrior. And Mechwarrior. And Mechcommander. And Mechcommander. And Aerotech. And Battlespace. And Aerotech. And Battleforce. And Battleforce. And BattleTroops. And Clantroops.

Anyway. Enough. You get the point, and if you don't, there simply isn't any point in continuing this conversation.

>>>And yes, this Overpriced Cheapo Plastic Posable Dolls in a rip-off "collectible" scheme will be the death of real Battletech...<<<

>>>you're too busy playing with your plastic dolls. Well, have fun, in your new Magetech Fantasy Story Line.<<<

From such ridiculous assumptions do your errors arise.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
realworldviews
10/13/02 02:05 AM
24.98.65.31

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That's alright, I never really use those types of rules, but if I ever do I'll give you an email, and ask you for them.
But thanks for the offer.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
Rockdaddy
11/19/02 03:55 AM
206.102.32.166

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I just wonder how much TPTB are concerned. I mean all over the place people are saying "no, this is too much and I won't be supporting the official timeline any longer" and it really isn't a few people but so many. Are they thinking that maybe they made a mistake and will be losing players, or are they counting on the faithful just blindly buying products?

Personally I won't be going along with the Jihad and beyond. I've suspended too much belief to even get to the end of the Civil War and the Jihad, Republic, King Arthur...I mean Devlin Stone are just too much for me. I know TPTB keep saying "Trust us, it'll be great" but I've seen how it turns out and I have no desire to play in that universe. And I won't be buying the products for it either.

All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
Rockdaddy
11/19/02 04:25 AM
206.102.32.166

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But the question is how much of the Jihad was planned by FASA is actually going to be used and how much is being rewritten to fit in with the WizKids universe?

Did FASA intend for Wolf's Dragoons and Outreach to be nuked (along with a bunch of other places)? Did FASA intend for this and that to happen, or did they want something else and WizKids/FanPro had to change the plans inorder to make it fit in with the formation of the Republic/Devlin Stone and all the rest of the MWDA history?

Too much of what we know about the Jihad is just too contrived to make sure the 3065+ universe flows directly into 3130.
All I need are some tasty waves, a cool buzz, and I'm fine.
MacLeod
11/24/02 12:21 AM
64.172.59.137

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I really don't care one way or another. BT is only what you decide to make it. Besides - I'm currently broke, and with the holidays coming up, I'll have no cash to spend on BT or MWDA stuff. It looks like I'll just be going with a half-dozen unbuilt miniatures and a bunch of books that are falling apart for another six months...
Drugs don't kill people, pancreatic cancer kills people.

... and whoever heard of a drug that causes pancreatic cancer?
Vapor
11/24/02 03:16 AM
202.128.69.122

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Personally, I'm disappointed with Wizkids. I was under the impression that when FASA gave them the rights to BT and MW, that they would continue to produce FASA quality material. Sadly, that doesn't seem to be the case. If they are using MWDA to target younger kids and get them into BT/MW, I applaud their effort, however, I would really like to see them provide something more along the lines of what FASA produced as well.
"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC

"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
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