Eclipz
01/25/03 11:19 AM
66.191.27.103
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Take a look!
http://www.classicbattletech.com/SecurityBriefingOmega.html
Scott
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Cadet
01/25/03 12:33 PM
206.102.32.123
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I was one of the loudest voices at Mordel's about bringing back the Unseen. We had to have them, they were better poorly drawn than gone altogether.
I was wrong and I admit that. What we have is nothing special and is the same poorly drawn and mass produced crap that we have had for the last couple of years. I am so tired of seeing Mechs that look more like they stepped out of the latest incarnation of Gundam than look like walking tanks.
The Project Phoenix 'mechs are a stellar example of mediocrity: Neither so good to make me want to show them off and not so bad to make me turn totally away from them and pretend they never existed. They just kind of are. They should have been something special.
Does not play well with others.
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Toastrider
01/26/03 10:14 AM
172.137.26.250
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Bitter much, Cadet?
As I recall, most Mechs past 3055+ have a more 'flowing' or 'organic' look to them; this reflects superior manufacturing and construction in the 'Sphere. At least I can look at the picture and locate the weapon ports properly, which is more than I can say for the original Unseen pics (so where ARE the medium lasers on the RFL-3N?).
Christ, it's just a game. I got my first look at some of the new minis (the new Locust and T-Bolt) and they look pretty nifty, even unpainted. So take a breath and RELAX.
Sheesh, as if we didn't have enough uptight posters around here...
--Toasty
"The survivors, not the victors, write the history books."
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Toastrider
01/26/03 10:19 AM
172.137.26.250
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That reminds me.
Why are the IIC variants being 'redone'? While some were visibly similar to their forebears (Warhammer, Marauder, and Locust), the Griffin IIC, P-Hawk IIC and S-Hawk IIC didn't look ANYTHING like their Inner Sphere counterparts.
--Toasty
"The survivors, not the victors, write the history books."
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Eclipz
01/26/03 10:40 AM
66.191.27.103
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For the most part I like the Project Phoenix stuff and as far as this release goes I really like it.
Scott
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Warner_Doles
01/26/03 02:12 PM
209.107.201.212
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Because they were done by another artist and weren't owned by FASA that's why they pulled them from the TRO 3055. We are redoing them so we own them and saves us a ton of problems that cropped up from the original Unseens.
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Eclipz
01/26/03 02:20 PM
66.191.27.103
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Figured maybe Warner was watching and would answer the question better than I could.
Scott
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Cadet
01/26/03 09:12 PM
206.102.33.75
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I'm well aware it is just a game. I am also well aware that this is just my opinion and not anything close to an objective fact, but I don't think I'm bitter. I just don't think the Unseen were redrawn very well. The should have been something special. Instead, we got the same cookie cutter, poorly drawn designs we've gotten in 3060 and 3067.
You'll just have to forgive me if I'm not a cheerleader for mediocrity.
Does not play well with others.
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GiovanniBlasini
01/28/03 02:34 AM
209.203.74.114
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...ya do sound a bit bitter.
Seriously, not all of the Phoenix Mechs are great. Not all of them suck, though, either.
Case in point: new T-Bolt. Or P-Hawk. Or Wasp.
Member of the Pundit Caste
"Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that." -- Col. Saul Tigh, BSG2003
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Cadet
01/28/03 02:39 AM
206.102.32.78
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Explain bitter. I want a better product than what I am being offered. So far FanPro hasn't delivered that to me. You might like it, but I don't.
Does not play well with others.
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Nightward
01/28/03 05:06 AM
210.50.56.185
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On the other hand, it *IS* free. Perhaps, as they say, you do get what you paid for 
Not everyone can be pleased by everything. I had high hopes for Project: Phoenix also, and whilst they haven't lived up to all expectations, at least the Unseen are back. It's not all bad.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Karagin
01/28/03 10:06 AM
68.21.149.115
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Where is the Warhammer IIC redone???
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Countergod
01/28/03 02:20 PM
160.39.139.33
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I especially like the new Warhammer (IS) and the MAD II  I never thought to add a heavy gause to it  the new MAD I is aslo pretty good though I would take out the TSM personally. One thing I think we dont need is the Rifleman (IS) as we already have a Jagarmech with 2 RAC-s and that one has a T-CPU also
***Chemistry is like art. One wrong move can really ruin your day!***
To: All other empire leaders
From: Maj. NevLord Madman (Mad Man's Marauders [STB] )
Subject: Hi Neveron
Date Sent: 7/12/3222 12:50:00 AM
May i just point out u all suck 
Maj. NevLord Madman |
Nightward
01/28/03 05:17 PM
202.138.16.69
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Does it *NEED* to be redone? How could they make it better? I mean, come on...PPCs over Medium Pulse Lasers....*DROOL*
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Eclipz
01/28/03 08:35 PM
66.191.27.103
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Word is we will see it a little later...........the preview of it is in gamesunplugged #23.........after it is out they should post it.
Scott
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Eclipz
01/28/03 08:36 PM
66.191.27.103
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I just don't see what the problem with them really is? Some of them are really good IMHO.
Scott
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Cadet
01/28/03 11:34 PM
206.102.34.86
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I'm glad you like them. I don't. I don't think they constitute good artwork nor do I think they are an improvement over not having the artwork at all. Sorry if I'm in the minority, but I just think we were better off without being able to see those mechs now that I've seen them.
Does not play well with others.
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Eclipz
01/29/03 01:12 AM
66.191.27.103
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Well from the feedback I have seen you are in the minority but I don't have a problem with that really. I was just trying to figure out what it was that made you not like them............I could see not liking some but you act like all are bad (which is why you seem bitter as was mentioned before).
Scott
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Cadet
01/29/03 01:39 AM
206.102.32.80
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Mechs should look like they did in TRO 3025. They looked like walking tanks. Now they look like something out of Gundam with oversized weapons and all that. Plus they dont look like anything a professional would draw. Rather they look like the Battling robots I drew when I was 13. They look childish.
Still they are an improvement over the crap Plog draws...but just barely.
Does not play well with others.
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Eclipz
01/29/03 01:52 AM
66.191.27.103
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Well now I understand your views even if I 100% disagree with them. I love Plog's art the most so I know we will never agree (but that's ok).
Scott
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Cadet
01/29/03 02:23 AM
206.102.32.80
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Well, I guess there's no account for taste
Does not play well with others.
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Eclipz
01/29/03 09:11 AM
66.191.27.103
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LOL..TRUE
How about the Kraken Plog recently did...........does this suck also?
Kraken
Kraken 3
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Karagin
01/29/03 10:23 AM
68.21.149.244
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The first one is not to bad...it's close to the original...the second looks like crap by that I mean it looks like it is three different mechs tossed together and top heavy at that also what are the booby like things on it's chest? A hommage to Dolly Parton? If they make a miniature of it I would not buy it.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Toastrider
01/29/03 11:25 AM
172.137.64.141
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First off, it's the same Mech chassis (Kraken/Bane). The first one is the UAC/2 'prime' variant, I believe, judging from the loadout.
The second looks funny because that's the LRM-rack Kraken, and it's viewed from a different angle (which makes the chest vents stand out a bit more).
I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill here, Cadet, but that's just me.
--Toasty
"The survivors, not the victors, write the history books."
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Karagin
01/29/03 11:48 AM
68.21.149.241
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First I think you have myself and Cadet confused here...
The second Bane looks NOTHING like the first one and I am sorry but to me it's not something I think of as a mech, the anime look and by that I mean the goofy look is way to much in the second one, or would bloated be a better word to use?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cadet
01/29/03 10:16 PM
206.102.33.183
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Yes.
It isn't that Polg can't draw, it is that he can't draw BattleTech. His stuff doesn't look like it fits in with the stuff from TRO 3025. I'm not saying everything needs to stay stagnate, but it should look like it fits in, and not was imported from the Japanese robot cartoon of the week (and yes I realize many of the original mechs came from anime. But there is a stylistic difference). Those older ones look like walking tanks. Plog's don't. I don't think his Kraken count either, because they are not original either, but redrawn versions of somone else's work.
Does not play well with others.
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Eclipz
01/29/03 10:52 PM
66.191.27.103
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Point taken...........was just curious (of course I love it).
Scott
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Countergod
01/30/03 10:13 AM
160.39.139.148
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oh, come now, it isnt THAT bad  I reconized it after only 5 seconds of staring at it, and I never even saw those name tags on top the first time
***Chemistry is like art. One wrong move can really ruin your day!***
To: All other empire leaders
From: Maj. NevLord Madman (Mad Man's Marauders [STB] )
Subject: Hi Neveron
Date Sent: 7/12/3222 12:50:00 AM
May i just point out u all suck
Maj. NevLord Madman |
Karagin
01/30/03 11:00 AM
68.21.149.50
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First the Kraken didn't need to be redone...and if it did then anyone but Plog.
Second the bottom drawing looks nothing like the first...just because it has missiles doesn't mean it has took like a rejected Zoid or a new version of an old Transformer.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Eclipz
01/30/03 07:52 PM
66.191.27.103
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Didn't need to be redone? The Kraken art and the sculpt is known for being a giant ugly turd. Hating Plog I guess I can understand (some artists I don't care for) but this version blows the original out of the water.
Now that is fugly on a stick. Is it falling backward?
Scott
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Cadet
01/30/03 07:57 PM
206.102.33.33
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Well hell, let's just let Plog redo them all, just for "stylistic" consistancy.
Do iIlike the original Kraken? No. Do I like Plog's version? No. Would I rather have the orignial or Plog's? Original.
Does not play well with others.
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Eclipz
01/30/03 09:00 PM
66.191.27.103
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I'll take the new one with no problem and from what I have heard (except for here) so would others.
Scott
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Karagin
01/30/03 09:04 PM
68.21.149.173
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The point is they already owned the artwork for it...so why redo it?
Ugly? Maybe, but a military machine isn't suppose to be pretty and cute.
Some things don't need changing, I think they should worry more about folks NOT liking the whole Jihad issue then about how a mech that has been around for a good number of years looks.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
01/30/03 09:07 PM
68.21.149.173
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Really? Beyond CBT this is the ONLY place the Karken has come up...and at all of the other boards folks have voiced their dislike of Plog's art work just as much as they have here.
How about having a little bit better grasp on what makes up this community then just two boards...given that there are at an off hand guess 20 to 30 active boards. When every single person at each of those says they love or want Plog to redo all of the mechs from TR3055/58 then maybe you will have a case that his work is good, but so far that's NOT the case.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightmare
01/31/03 03:15 AM
80.222.92.246
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Perhaps a poll is in order?
Advice for Evil Overlords:
My legions of terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
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Eclipz
01/31/03 08:41 AM
66.191.27.103
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The Kraken was on LOTB, HPG and IIRC The HeavyMetal boards..........So I guess I have a little better grasp than was thought. I never said the whole world loved Plog but it reaction was much more negative hear than anywhere else I saw.
Scott
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Karagin
01/31/03 09:12 AM
68.21.149.23
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I have YET to see it at the HM boards...what thread is it under?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
01/31/03 09:13 AM
68.21.149.23
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Maybe, but as Cadet said, if they are going to redo one then why not all of them?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightmare
01/31/03 04:34 PM
80.222.92.246
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Nah, I just meant a poll on Plog`s mechs, good or not?
Advice for Evil Overlords:
My legions of terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
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Cadet
01/31/03 06:37 PM
206.102.35.37
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Run him out of town on a rail!
Does not play well with others.
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Eclipz
01/31/03 07:23 PM
66.191.27.103
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Hmmmmm.................took me a bit but I found it. The response was very good. Hope the link works. If it doesn't then the thread was "So you think the Kraken is FBUgly???" by Burning Chrome.
http://www.heavymetalpro.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=2927
Scott
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Karagin
01/31/03 11:14 PM
207.43.145.97
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Okay three boards, I have yet to see it Mordel's or BTuniverse or Chaos March or Solairs just to name a few...so three boards beyond CBT is NOT a wide showing and again if they are going to redo all of the ugly mechs why not have someone redraw the crap done by Plog while they are at it.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
01/31/03 11:15 PM
207.43.145.97
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That has been debated to death. 1/3 of the fans like his art, 1/3 doesn't and 1/3 don't care.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cadet
02/01/03 12:35 AM
206.102.32.178
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I think it is also telling that the general consensus is that Plog is ok IF he is only redrawing an established mech, but not so good when it comes to original designs...and even then he has complaints (No armor on the UACs on the Kraken 2 for example).
Does not play well with others.
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realworldviews
02/01/03 01:04 AM
24.98.67.67
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Those are sweet pics!
Were did you find those?
I would like to see more if there are more.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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Eclipz
02/01/03 02:19 AM
66.191.27.103
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The boards I mentioned get way more traffic than here and the response there was far more positve. In the future I will know not to post such things here.
Scott
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Karagin
02/01/03 08:41 PM
207.43.145.150
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You named two boards and I noticed the same level of resposnce at HM as here. Those who didn't like respond as such and those who did did the same.
So you are saying that only postive responces are counted...that is interesting since it seems to fit with current think of WK/FP.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Eclipz
02/01/03 09:03 PM
66.191.27.103
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Not gonna argue.........don't really care that much.
Scott
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Karagin
02/01/03 09:10 PM
207.43.145.150
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Funny thing here is NO one is arguing...we have stated our opinions and you seem to not like them.
I don't like Plogs artwork, there are others who don't as well. Some folks do...so where is the arguement?
The only thing that could be argued and so far it's not is there is no need to redraw the Kraken...and the only other issue is which BT boards are the most active to draw a popular opinion poll from...
So what were we all arguing about again?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightmare
02/02/03 06:14 AM
80.222.92.246
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OK. I`m one of those who doesn`t care one way or the other about him. There are better artists, but also a lot of worse ones. Case closed?
Advice for Evil Overlords:
My legions of terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
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Karagin
02/02/03 08:10 PM
68.21.149.158
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Never was a case to start with...an opinion was asked for and given and some one didn't like it that not everyone was awed by Plog's work.
So how about you ask him if the case is closed...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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TJHairball
02/06/03 06:02 PM
152.10.182.229
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Just joined this board today.
I must say, I don't like having "gundum" style designs. I have an old 3025 tech readout, and I like the style of most of the 'mechs in that one... although some of the more recent ones look positively absurd (not all... but some) particularly reflecting autocannon bores, etc.
Just weighing in so my previously silent opinon is heard.
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Cadet
02/06/03 07:06 PM
206.102.32.69
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Welcome aboard!
Hey, silent voices cannot be heard. If you don't like the art, speak up! It's the only way we can get rid of Plog and anyone else who's art is substandard.
Does not play well with others.
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Karagin
02/06/03 11:02 PM
68.21.149.129
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Welcome and I agree with you on the art work. Some look okay while others seem to be more Zoids or Gundamn then Battletech's walking tank look.
Glad you joined!
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Chunga
02/09/03 11:25 PM
24.211.11.205
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Not sure if you know this, but for Project Phoenix TRO, there will be pictures of each variant. They could all be in there.
Chunga
CBT Nazi
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Karagin
02/10/03 11:01 PM
208.42.114.130
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You missed the point, if they are going to redo evey single mech from the original TR3025 and 2750 and 3050 and 3055 then that is very point less since the whole TRO PP was about the UNSEEN, ie the mechs removed because of the Lawsuit and the fear of another lawsuit.
Redoing all of the mechs NOT covered by that is pointless and a waste of resources, but I am sure you won't see or understand that.
But thank you for pointing out the obvious and trying to help.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Chunga
02/11/03 11:11 PM
24.211.11.205
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Well, I thought I had your point, but in this post you contradict yourself. In your post on on 1/31/01, you said:
In reply to:
Maybe, but as Cadet said, if they are going to redo one then why not all of them?
Now you say that it's pointless to do all of them.
What side are you arguing?
Chunga
p.s. Actually, now that I've read this a couple more times, I think we actually agree, although it will probably disgust you. Months and months ago, Peter and I tried to tell you that redrawing the unseen was not a good idea. It was better to leave those mechs the way they were. Cadet, Chihawk, and yourself of course told us that "because the people wanted them redrawn, they should be redrawn." Well, be careful of what you wish for. I am glad Cadet came out and simply said he was wrong. I knew it would take you longer, but this post is probably the best we'll all get.
Thank you!
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Chunga
02/11/03 11:21 PM
24.211.11.205
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You say it's a waster of resources and pointless, but you don't explain why. You're absolutely right I can't see that, because I don't understand your line of thought. Please explain.
Chunga
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Cadet
02/11/03 11:34 PM
206.102.34.100
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Make no mistake, I wanted them redrawn, but I wanted them redrawn by someone with talent, or who could at least make them look like they belonged in TRO3025, not the current Gundam rejects.
My statement of having all the mechs redrawn was just about making a standard idea of a battlemech. 3025 came out first. All mechs drawn since then should conform to that style of art to define a mech. Since TPTB have decided the Plog and his junk in 3060/3067 and this guy redrawing the Unseen are the way to go, then I think they should go back to redraw all the mechs so that they are stylistically similar.
I was wrong. i thought that they would really bring out something special for the Unseen (I hoped against hope that they would bring back Duane Loose). Good idea, poor execution.
Does not play well with others.
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Karagin
02/12/03 03:25 PM
208.42.114.130
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First, they don't need to be redone since the art is owned by FP/WK, second it's says that if it's old it's NOT good enough for the current TPTB...
The resources spent trying to redo mechs like the Karken etc...can be better put into things like scenario packs, more novels, or even better art in the sourcebooks.
Does that help?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
02/12/03 03:28 PM
208.42.114.130
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Redoing the all is pointless, the art work is already OWNED by WK, it's not like the Unseen which WASN'T owned...
As for the Unseen it's you and Peter and company that need to admit you were wrong not myself. If I was wrong about anything it was that it would happen given the amount of hostile comments from you and your cliche of friends.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Chunga
02/13/03 12:34 AM
24.211.11.205
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Check out the new Battlechat from Randall. Looks like you may get your wish.
Chunga
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Cadet
02/13/03 12:42 AM
206.102.33.160
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Oh goodie.
Does not play well with others.
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Chunga
02/13/03 12:51 AM
24.211.11.205
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Here's a question for you two.
Is there anything about Battletech that you do enjoy? I would like to find something that we have in common about this game or else you're really no better than Nadin. You both seem to have passion, but you present it SO negatively that it's hard to understand why you even play anymore.
Chunga
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Cadet
02/13/03 01:01 AM
206.102.33.160
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I love the game itself.
I think the current storyline (since the introduction of the Clans) is pitiful and horribly contrived, the writing is juvenile at best and gets worse every year, and the artwork is just totally substandard and gets worse even faster than the writing. I keep hoping it will get better and just get my hopes dashed with each new product. Sorry if I want a better product. I'll just be quiet and let the line slip even further without commentary.
I'd appreciate it if you didn't even mention Nadin.
Does not play well with others.
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