Gangrene
02/20/03 04:13 PM
68.113.44.60
|
The MW: DA players here are also mostly above 16 years old. Surprisingly, few of them have heard of CBT as well. So much for WK helping out FanPro.
I don't think WK ever planned on "helping out" FanPro. FanPro has to make it on their own.
Are you really suprised that CBT is not well known?
Gangrene
|
Karagin
02/22/03 05:20 PM
65.129.166.76
|
$25 is reasonable since it compeats with MWDA's price of a starter and couple of boosters...where as the $35 price doesn't.
But if you feel that paying the $35 is worth it then I guess you will be willing to pay the same for the sourcebooks as well...I don't feel like paying that and thus I am speaking out about it.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Karagin
02/22/03 05:34 PM
65.129.166.76
|
I am not and given that BOTH games are aimed at the market of ages 12 and up, they are in DIRECT compotition with each other.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Karagin
02/22/03 05:35 PM
65.129.166.76
|
Cheap? Really? What part of the country do you live in? Podunk Arkanass?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Karagin
02/22/03 05:39 PM
65.129.166.76
|
But yet you are willing to defend the idea of $35 for a starter set to BT...interesting stance Bob, since you are to poor to take out your GF but can drop the same price that dinner and a movie would cost on a single game item...really interesting...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Karagin
02/22/03 05:44 PM
65.129.166.76
|
Simple, Mommy and Daddy are paying for it...I have seen it enough and know all to well how it works, my brother's GF has two kids...she will buy them just about anything to shut them up and thus that is what 90% of the parents do most of the time.
BUT for those who don't, the price will push them to getting something else and when you tack on the part about how quick the kiddies get BORED with things the idea of spending $35 on pen and paper game won't be something they will doing.
But you, like Bob, seem to think that these prices are all find and danndy, meanwhile the rest of us don't.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
masdog5
02/23/03 06:48 PM
205.213.146.15
|
You dont seem to understand business very well, because if you did, you wouldnt be arguing this tooth and nail.
You CANT sell something for cheaper then it costs to make and expect advertisements, new products, etc, if you expect to remain a viable company.
35 is probably as reasonable as they can make it, especially if they want to advertise and put new product lines out and pay Wizkids the licensing fees for CBT.
|
masdog5
02/23/03 06:51 PM
205.213.146.15
|
Then if this is so obvious to everyone, why are you arguing for FanPro and Wizkids to increase the CBT line and attract more players to it if MWDA is the cash camel?
I know, we all want CBT to continue, but sometimes, you have to face the reality that it might be slowly killed off and replaced.
|
Chas
02/23/03 11:08 PM
66.187.3.81
|
Given the price of pulp publication today (remember, the price of paper has gone up dramatically in the last 7 years), would you rather they simply cut out all the artwork and delivered a B&W boxed rulebook and quick-start pamphlet for $25?
And how would they justify it against the BT:MR?
As to ragging on Bob about his "cheapness".
Dinner nowadays at anything more than McDonalds is a $30+ affair, plus tip. An a movie at anything other than an afternoon matinee is $16+. Plus obligatory refreshments.
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
|
Chas
02/23/03 11:10 PM
66.187.3.81
|
BUT for those who don't, the price will push them to getting something else
Or they'll club together with friends to buy the game. Since it provides everything several people would need to play.
This is how mh HS gaming club acquired a large communal library of products when we couldn't, individually, afford them all ourselves).
And, as to "the rest of us" not finding the price point acceptable.
Please don't deign to speak for everyone.
Yes, some people may dislike the price point. Others may not. But attempting to "win" an argument through bandwagoning ("everyone else does, so you should too") is poor form.
---
"High necked fashions just became the IN thing here on Tharkad."
-- Morgan Kell
-- Grave Covenant
|
Karagin
02/24/03 10:38 AM
68.21.149.213
|
And so is your playing YES man to everything WK does or alllows FP to do...
And your posting is a perfect example of that.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Karagin
02/24/03 10:39 AM
68.21.149.213
|
What ads? They haven't done any ads to push the product so no cost there, and I do understand business well enough to know that if you jacket the price up folks will NOT buy it if they have other choices.
Sorry you can't see that for your self.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Karagin
02/24/03 10:43 AM
68.21.149.213
|
You are so correct, I forgot that you know all there is to know and no one else can know anything.
Sorry but you are wrong, but given your postion it makes no difference since you will spin things to support your side and slam anyone who disagreses with you.
The point here that the price increase hurts the game since it pushes the new fans towards other games and towards MWDA which is competing against BT, oh wait you and your cliche claim it's not, but the facts speak for themselves on that issue.
So how about staying on topic and stop trying to turn things into a flame war or is that asking to much of you?
Oh and if you recall what I told you last time about things expect the same this time and I did send one out.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
masdog5
02/24/03 10:48 AM
205.213.146.15
|
'The point here that the price increase hurts the game since it pushes the new fans towards other games and towards MWDA which is competing against BT, oh wait you and your cliche claim it's not, but the facts speak for themselves on that issue.'
I've said this once and I will say it again:
CLASSIC BATTLETECH IS DYING. WK WANTS PEOPLE PUSHED TOWARDS MWDA. FANPRO IS JUST THERE TO FINISH THE CURRENT LINES AND CATCH UP TO THE MWDA TIMELINE.
|
LordChaos
02/24/03 01:49 PM
67.41.67.32
|
What karagin is missing, even though many many people have pointed it out is...
Yes, the box set's price is higher. BUT IT'S COST TO PRODUCE IS ALSO HIGHER. They could NOT release it at the previous price point without reducing / eliminating content from the set. Even if they only included exactly what was in the previous set they would loose money at the previous price point as the cost of production has risen.
Everything is more expensive now then it was 7 years ago when the previous set was released.
Real mechwariors pilot IS mechs.
|
Karagin
02/24/03 01:56 PM
68.21.149.160
|
No I didn't miss it...the part that is missed is that this the point where the new fans are suposse to be able to get into the game...and with the higher cost they are going to look else where.
They are charging way to much and not really giving the fans or the new comers anything that is worth $35...what is in the new box set is really only worth $25.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
LordChaos
02/24/03 02:20 PM
67.41.67.32
|
You keep saying that this set is only worth $25.
You keep missing that IT LIKELY COST NEAR (OR MORE THEN) $25 TO PRODUCE, PACKAGE, AND DISTRIBUTE IT.
Are you advocating that they sell the game for less then it cost them to make? How much of a loss should they take on every box set then? And how will they remain solvent then, when (according to you) they should be selling the game at less then it cost them to put into the stores in the first place.
EVERYTHING cost more now then it did 7 years ago, even things that include less then they did then.
Were are kids going to get money for this? Were do they get money for 3rd ed AD&D ($30 per book). How about comice? (up in price, but still selling). PC games? (price as risen about the same amount). I could go on, but if you haven't gotten the point yet, you are ether brain dead (which I highly doubt, everything else I've seen you do seems to show intelligence) or extreamly stuborn (possible, and not always a bad thing).
Real mechwariors pilot IS mechs.
|
Bob_Richter
02/24/03 03:20 PM
4.35.174.250
|
Dinner and a movie actually costs a bit more than that.
DINNER costs $40. That's just the cost of food around here....particularly feeding a 300lb guy and his black hole of a (now ex-[no it didn't have anything to do with not having money]]girlfriend. A matinee showing costs upward of $10 with two people. That's without drinkage and snackage, which she typically insisted on. Of course, a non-matinee show would cost quite a bit more.
Things must be VERY cheap where you are for dinner and a movie to come in under $35.
$35 isn't a bad price for a gaming product. When I was a kid, I could afford that. I'm not anymore. I can't afford ANYTHING.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
Bob_Richter
02/24/03 03:28 PM
4.35.174.250
|
>>>Sorry but you are wrong,<<<
And yet you fail to contest any of his (wholly valid) points. Interesting.
>>>The point here that the price increase hurts the game since it pushes the new fans towards other games and towards MWDA which is competing against BT,<<<
You're wrong.
MWDA does compete against CBT, in the vague sort of way that Monoploy competes against DnD. Some people will never be interested in clicky-based miniatures, others will never be interested in a complex wargame like CBT. There's some overlap (I, for instance, actually enjoy a good game of MWDA every once in a blue moon,) but the products aren't in direct competition.
Second, in case you hadn't noticed, a MWDA starter pack costs $20. That's *a* 'Mech and assorted other stuff. It's not even a tournament army, especially not a faction-specific one. To really play the game, you need TWO or more of these, and probably several booster packs. The price skyrockets quickly.
CBT comes in an inexpensive $35 boxed set. And, yes, the price of paper HAS risen dramatically. I should know, I hang around folks who publish and distribute a newspaper.
Find another game that you can practically get into for $35 that might reasonably be said to be in direct competition with CBT and then try this arguement, because as it stands, you've not a leg to stand on.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
Bob_Richter
02/24/03 03:30 PM
4.35.174.250
|
So are personal attacks. This was one.
I'm not a mod here, but I'll ask that you kindly back down. This kind of crap is completely uncalled for.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
Bob_Richter
02/24/03 03:31 PM
4.35.174.250
|
Starter: $20
2 Boosters: $20
$20+$20 = $40.
Just thought I'd do the math for you.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
Bob_Richter
02/24/03 03:33 PM
4.35.174.250
|
There's your mistake: you're assuming the price has been jacked up.
Wake up, Karagin. In the mid-eighties, your average gaming book may have cost $15-$20 (in fact, it did.) Today it costs $25-$35.
Things are that much more expensive. Deal with it.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
Bob_Richter
02/24/03 03:34 PM
4.35.174.250
|
If that's how you define DIRECT competition, they're in real trouble, because they're both competing against CARTOONS.
Geez, Karagin.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
|
masdog5
02/24/03 04:03 PM
205.213.146.15
|
'No I didn't miss it...the part that is missed is that this the point where the new fans are suposse to be able to get into the game...and with the higher cost they are going to look else where.'
But the prices for most consumer goods have gone up since the last BT boxed set was released. If you take everything in perspective, it is competitve for what you get in the set.
'They are charging way to much and not really giving the fans or the new comers anything that is worth $35...what is in the new box set is really only worth $25.'
Thats a very arrogant statement. Do you know how much it costs Fanpro to produce the product? DO you know what printing, packaging, and distribution costs?
When i started gaming, most of the books I bought were in the price range of 15 to 30 dollars. Besides the material in the book, I got jack [deleted]. For the BT boxed set, you get alot of material, including introduciton and level 2 rules, cardboard cutout mechs, and a poster sized map sheet. That is a very good deal.
Considering what it costs to put on a decent Whitewolf Gaming systems campaign, 35 bucks for a set that includes pretty much everything you will need for a match is excellent.
|
Karagin
02/24/03 05:06 PM
68.21.149.195
|
Where is the cost increase coming from for the product? Nothing in the box set shows that they added anything that would warrant a price increase.
Please show us something that makes it very clear that the price increase is warrant...so far I don't see it and that is taking in account the idea that things cost more now then they did seven years ago...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Karagin
02/24/03 05:07 PM
68.21.149.195
|
And this is from the same person who is against them placing ads in other magazines and such...right okay if you say so Bob.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Karagin
02/24/03 05:09 PM
68.21.149.195
|
WTF?
I just saw freaking booster in Meijer's (local ubermarket) and it was $19.95 and the boosters where around $9.95. Even if you don't buy two boosters you set get MORE for a lot less then FP is asking for 5th ED BT...
But then again this is from the same person who is against them placing ads in other magazines and such...right okay if you say so Bob.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Karagin
02/24/03 05:11 PM
68.21.149.195
|
The only assumation around here is the one where some of us fans actually thought FP gave a damn about BT....and yes the price HAS BEEN jacked up.
I am sorry you can't see or understand this, bu then again since this is from the same person who is against them placing ads in other magazines and such...right okay if you say so Bob.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Karagin
02/24/03 05:12 PM
68.21.149.195
|
And you comments are not welcome either, and I have yet to see you back down. So how about you take your own advice or is that asking to much?
I can see that your mentor has taught you well, glad to see that you are learning his tactics.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|
Karagin
02/24/03 05:13 PM
68.21.149.195
|
What? I thought you were the same kid who could afford to drop $200 on a computer...come on Bob get the story straight please.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
|