Cadet
03/19/03 10:28 PM
206.102.33.98
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I've noticed a whole lot of stuff being written about big name units being wiped out in the Jihad, often through the ues of oribital bombardment and/or nukes. But I wonder, will any writer's pet unit suffer the same fate? Sure Wolf's Dragoons will get prison raped, but they still have some part of them who make it out.
Does not play well with others.
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KamikazeJohnson
03/19/03 11:33 PM
142.161.128.92
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I think that'll all depend on whether or not the units in question still have a story to tell. If the writers are out of good plot lines for a unit, chances are they'll get axed. Others, like the Dragoons, are such a central part of the BT universe, so they'll survive.
Peace is that glorious moment in history when everyone stands around reloading.
--Thomas Jefferson
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masdog5
03/19/03 11:51 PM
205.213.145.214
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Since the Dragoon Civil War, the Dragoons have been relatively quiet. I think they came out once for the JF Incursion at Coventry.
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masdog5
03/19/03 11:55 PM
205.213.145.214
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That depends. What other writers pet units are left?
I know the KotIS got axed in the twilight of the clans.
The ELH looks like it will get beat up pretty bad/axed in the Jihad, and the FSAC gets orbitally bombarded to smithereans.
Who knows what else gets destroyed.
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Cadet
03/20/03 06:25 AM
206.102.33.141
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Got this in an email. The author will remain nameless.
In reply to:
You've got to be kidding me. Do you seriously think the Blackwind Lancers are going to get nuked? Or that the Blood Spirits will get absorbed? No way their pet units get treated like our units. And we'll hear the old retort "but the storyline" or "should have picked a better faction".
What will happen is there will be some loss for their units, and they'll say "see, we got hurt too" but no way they get wiped out.
Does not play well with others.
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Warner_Doles
03/20/03 07:07 AM
209.107.201.212
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Hmm... Blackwind Lancers get nuked? Could happen... If I'm were told they had to die, I'd make damn sure they'd go out in a BLAZE OF GLORY!! 
"Or that the Blood Spirits will get absorbed?"
You'd be surprised what may or may not happen. If Randall said, the Blood Spirits must die then of course they would die.
I think what people are refusing to believe is that in war units, no matter how powerful they are or elite will be destroyed, ripped asunder or simply vanish. In WWII some of the most elite German Divisions were annihilated in combat. It’s happened to the French at the Battle of Waterloo. It happened to the Romans, Greeks and so on. Units die in combat. It happens.
The fact that Blackwind Lancers are the unit I write now may be my personal favorite unit, it will not preclude me from giving them a Wei Gas enema or Plutonium sun burn; it is part of the storyline. The author of this message (I know who it is because of their style) lives to assume much and never listen to facts.
The truth of the matter is, during the Jihad no one will be untouched by death or destruction. The Jihad is a war far greater in scope then people want to believe, with damage greater what was seen in 1st Succession War. Units are going to die regardless. Like it or not, its the reality of the BattleTech game universe which is consistent with the previous wars ever fought in the history of the game.
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Vapor
03/20/03 09:16 AM
202.123.139.35
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My personal belief is that the Jihad will give birth to countless "alternate universes" as gaming groups step away from the canon universe and rewrite history with their own campaigns. I know this has happened in the past, and I thnk it will happen even more now. At least until things quiet down and WoB is finally annihilated (Hey, I can dream, can't I?  ).
Once I get everything sorted out and figure out what all I've missed (I have been out of touch with BT for several years, so not familiar with all the newest developments), that is what I intend to do. I haven't decided if I am going to take part of a unit and have them head to some backwater planet to recuperate, or if I will create a new unit from the remains of several units that have gotten devastated by the Jihad. Either way, I bet it will be a far cry from what happens in the official universe.
"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
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Gangrene
03/20/03 11:22 AM
68.113.44.60
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Writers don't really have any pull with FanPro anymore since they stopped making Btech novels. The GDL has already been hacked to pieces, so I would not be surprised if units like the Black Thorns or the Cabelleros follow.
Gangrene
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masdog5
03/20/03 03:32 PM
205.213.145.214
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Its not that the units die, that I can handle. Its knowing that they dont die in a stand up fight, but at the business end of a warship, a nuclear weapon, or some nerve agent.
Based on what has been released by Wizkids, there are alot of people who think the Jihad could be down differently. I tend to be amongst them, and while I might express my opinion about it, I'm also holding out for more information about the Jihad. I want to know how this all unfolds, not just little snippets about planets being bombed to the point of being uninhabitable.
Those who are in the know about the Jihad and everything that happens in the 60 year jump dont allow us to be upset. We, as fans of the game and the universe, do have that right. I cant speak for some of those who arent willing to look at it with an open mind, but I know I dont like hearing from those in the know that there is more and that we shouldnt be upset. That is hard, though, when we dont know the whole story.
What it comes down to is that players pick their units for whatever reason, whether it is because of the units morals, or lack of, tactics, or just something different. When we are told they are just going to die off in the manner that the Wizkids website describes but are given no more information about it, those players understandably get pissed.
You run the CBT boards, so you see how people go in character and defend or attack other nations and units. You see how FWL'ers are angry about not getting much attention over the last decade, or how Cappies and Combiners are upset that nothing major has ever happened to the Federated Suns.
I have the supreme confidence that this will turn out better than everyone believes, and that when the missing pieces of the story are filled in, it will all make sense. But until that happens, I will remain skeptical about the Jihad.
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Warner_Doles
03/20/03 04:55 PM
209.107.201.212
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"Its not that the units die, that I can handle. Its knowing that they dont die in a stand up fight, but at the business end of a warship, a nuclear weapon, or some nerve agent."
Fanatics will use whatever tools they have to accomplish their tasks and missions. WoB does not have the man power to fight every unit in known space. So they use what they have at their disposal. Nuclear, Biological, and Chemcial weapons are employed for their strategic value and effect of terror they cause. These are weapons that make small fanatical groups like the WoB effective because they are Religious Technozealots and they have no moral qualms to use them. They aren't the only ones to use them in the Jihad. They aren't the only one's to call down WarShip strikes. The Jihad is the one war where all restrictions and limits were crossed by everyone.
Also, its not WizKids writing the Jihad. It's going to be the FanPro writers that write it. Oh yeah, it's some of the FanPro writers writing all the WizKid's stories too.
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Warner_Doles
03/20/03 04:56 PM
209.107.201.212
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"Writers don't really have any pull with FanPro anymore since they stopped making Btech novels."
Really? Funny I'd not heard that. Ah a new rumor! Cool! 
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Gangrene
03/20/03 07:23 PM
68.113.44.60
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They have stopped making Btech novels. I am assuming the writers wouldn't work for free, or would have more important business interests.
Gangrene
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Cray
03/20/03 08:39 PM
65.32.253.120
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A lot of the pet units seem to have been trashed.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Warner_Doles
03/20/03 09:41 PM
209.107.201.212
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Actually you've got to understand what we actually do.
First you have the novelist. Those at this time would be Randall and Loren (for MWDA now (not sure if Randall's up for one yet.)) They will do the novels and they'll also do the material for the source books.
Then you have the Main writers. Those are the writers that get the lone source book to write or head up a project. Those right now are Christoffer "Bones" Trossen, Herb Beas and Chris Hartford.
Then you have the stable writers that work with the Main writers who head up the projects. Those write now are Camille Klein, David "MacAttack" McCulloch and I. Together we all make the core of the writing group for FanPro.
With the exception of Loren, the rest don't depend on novels as we have other jobs to sustain us (or should!). I'm sure that Chris and Herb want to get a crack at them, and I think they should. I can't speak for Camille or David, but I'm not a novelist and don't make a claim to be. We got enough to do right now without having to write an additional 130,000 word novel on top of the butt load of source books and stuff that Randall is beating us over the head with!
The group that we have now in my opinion is the most knowledgeable about the BattleTech Universe; certainly the best group of writers that really care for what they are doing. We back check each other to make sure what we write is concise and correct where it concerns continuity. The research that is put into what we write is phenomenal. Case in point, I put two solid months of research on the worlds for the FCCW Atlas before I wrote the first world.
What's even more important is that a number of the group is writing for WizKids' site and game history. So the continuity will be there too. Randall is the Continuity Director for WizKids, with him there you can be assured that what happens between the two will be correct and connect correctly.
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Cadet
03/20/03 11:21 PM
206.102.33.89
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Well that clinches it. As long as Camille is in any way, shape, or form a writer (and I use the term loosely after her scriblings in FM:P) I won't be giving one dime to FanPro or WizKids.
BattleTech is now officially dead to me.
Does not play well with others.
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masdog5
03/21/03 12:23 AM
206.215.77.219
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'They aren't the only ones to use them in the Jihad. They aren't the only one's to call down WarShip strikes. The Jihad is the one war where all restrictions and limits were crossed by everyone.'
That would have been nice to know, and that does change my view of the Jihad considerably. That is one thing that hasnt been really been made clear in much of the available information about the Jihad. So far, the only major source about the Jihad that is available is the INN site that Wizkids has set up. From what little information that is available, one can draw the conclusion that the WOB is the only one using these tactics.
I think a huge part of my objection has been that its not a few units that die by the WMD, but, again from the information that can be gleened(sp?) from the INN site, is that a majority of units die that way.
While I understand the strategy behind it, especially when i think of units like Wolf's Dragoons, the hardest part about accepting this is that it we know it happens before the story is written. Thats why it appears to be bad plot planning in my eyes. We know the unit dies, and we know how htey die, but we dont know any more about the war except its results. Until more information comes out, the whole thing seems like a stretch.
Like I said before, I have faith that the whole thing will turn out well. I'm just a little dismayed by what I have seen so far.
Edited by masdog5 (03/21/03 12:24 AM)
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Eclipz
03/21/03 12:43 AM
68.118.41.156
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Gangrene
03/21/03 02:37 AM
68.113.44.60
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First you have the novelist. Those at this time would be Randall and Loren (for MWDA now (not sure if Randall's up for one yet.)) They will do the novels and they'll also do the material for the source books.
That is the group I was referring to, since they would probably be most dedicated to that group which they formed in their fiction. I figured the authors of the source books would be less attached to individual units, and therefore a talk about pet units wouldn't really apply to them. I can't see any of the main writers pushing an individual unit. A House or Clan maybe.
Gangrene
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Warner_Doles
03/21/03 07:47 AM
209.107.201.212
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"So far, the only major source about the Jihad that is available is the INN site that Wizkids has set up. From what little information that is available, one can draw the conclusion that the WOB is the only one using these tactics."
Correct. Think about it though... INN is giving this information. What is the saying, to the Victors goes the spoils and the victor writes the history?
"I think a huge part of my objection has been that its not a few units that die by the WMD"
While it may appear that way, in truth it doesn't happen. Too much of a "good thing" is still too much. Heck I think I had the Wobbies get a taste of their own medicine! 
"While I understand the strategy behind it, especially when i think of units like Wolf's Dragoons, the hardest part about accepting this is that it we know it happens before the story is written."
What you have to understand is, the attack on the Dragoons was the opening gambit of the Jihad! All the worlds in Prefecture X were attack almost simultaneously. The Dragoons were the number one target. Just remember Jihad starts with the Dragoons...
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Warner_Doles
03/21/03 07:52 AM
209.107.201.212
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"Well that clinches it. As long as Camille is in any way, shape, or form a writer (and I use the term loosely after her scriblings in FM:P) I won't be giving one dime to FanPro or WizKids. BattleTech is now officially dead to me."
Don't you think that's a bit of an over-reaction? Camille had been writing on and off for FASA (Field Manual: Periphery (Marian Hegemony)) before FanPro came into the picture. While I can understand your displeasure of what has happened in the past, the past is the past and your reaction is like "cutting of your nose to spite your face." I'd hate to see you go to that extreme over that. Think about it before you do it.
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Warner_Doles
03/21/03 07:53 AM
209.107.201.212
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"I can't see any of the main writers pushing an individual unit."
Oh we do... hehe.. we really do!
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Vapor
03/21/03 08:27 AM
202.128.69.204
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Atlas?!? What Atlas?!? Is it in print yet? How can I get my hands on this?
"For those about to rock, we salute you." - AC DC
"The evil that can come, from the heart of a man, must be answered in kind 'till it disappears, and we're safe." - Kansas
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Cray
03/21/03 08:49 AM
147.160.125.185
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Jeez, talk about over reaction. Camille is a little "acidic" on the internet, and you're claiming BT is dead to you? The two aren't even related. Her on-line behavior doesn't show up in FM:P at all.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Cadet
03/21/03 09:18 AM
206.102.34.178
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Why would I want to do any business with a company that has someone like her in a public position? She is abusive, and caustic, and regularly puts down your customer base. Explain to me how that is a good business decision on the company's part.
There a tons of people in the BattleTech community who have the talent to write, the desire to write, would do it for free, andare a part of the community and can reply without ripping into people, and yet you guys pick one person guaranteed to piss people off with her mouth. Good Job.
Does not play well with others.
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Cadet
03/21/03 09:22 AM
206.102.34.178
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A little acidic on the internet? I gave her whatfor on the internet and she called the Army on me (Told her she needed to get laid, it would help her attitude, and I could arrange for circus midgets to do the job). She can dish it out, and she dished out her venom regularly, but can't take it.
I won't associate with any company that keeps someone like her in a public position. I understand that FASA/FanPro/WizKids aren't too concerned with customer service, but they picked the one person who is guaranteed to insult and piss off the customer base with her attitude and posts. As long as they have someone like that in a public position, I won't be doing business with them.
Does not play well with others.
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Eclipz
03/21/03 11:56 AM
68.118.41.156
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I'll admit she isn't my favorite person in the world and I agree with you on some parts but I would never give up a game I enjoy just for that.
Scott
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Cadet
03/21/03 12:14 PM
206.102.33.82
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I was going to give CBT a chance. I was going to buy the support material and simply ignore the source material, but I won't support FanPro as long as it wants people like Camille as a part of the organization.
Maybe, maybe not will I play my game from this point out, but as long as Camille is around they lose me as a customer. Of course that isn't important to them since the customer is secondary to voices on the internet who buy everything and kiss the right ass, but I can't in good conscience ignore the people who are the public face of the game. I don't put up with that kind of behavior in real life, and I won't put up with it here.
Does not play well with others.
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Cray
03/21/03 12:42 PM
65.32.253.120
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In reply to:
As long as they have someone like that in a public position, I won't be doing business with them.
So, does this mean we can hope you'll stop publically defaming Wizkids/Fanpro on the internet? 
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Cadet
03/21/03 12:54 PM
206.102.33.82
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Bite me. I'm no cheerleader and never claimed to be one. I was a customer who was unhappy with the product I was presented for purchase. Heaven forfend I don't drop to my knees and worship the writers whenever some subpar product is put out.
But then again, I don't want to write for them, so I don't need to suck up to them.
Does not play well with others.
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Warner_Doles
03/21/03 02:01 PM
209.107.194.229
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The atlas in the back of FedCom Civil War Source Book. I wrote up 50 worlds either updating those already known or created new information for those never done before. And boy did I have a blast! Allot of settings for RPGing can be gain from them! My favorite as it was Chris Hartfords was Dalkeith! hahaha
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