wartang
12/18/03 01:05 AM
209.201.75.12
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huh dose that mean
i love this game
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Cray
12/18/03 06:46 AM
68.200.106.99
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Quote:
Finally, a "Munchkin" is playing to "win", and doesn't really understand that the point of this game at least, is not to win, but just to play. A Munchkin is the most likely to want to create extremely powerful characters, and to try to find abuses and loopholes in the rules to, again, give their characters more power. A Munchkin is the most likely to confuse Roleplaying Games with the other games that call themselves RPGs, such as Computer and Video Game RPGs, and not see the difference. Munchkins tend to be the younger players, those newer to roleplaying, and even the name comes from the "short people with high pitched voices" from The Wizard of Oz book and movie. Other roleplayers tend to look down on them, as undeveloped.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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tgsofgc
12/18/03 12:39 PM
67.4.199.6
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Battletech players often tend to look down heavily upon "munchkinny" designs which use the broken equipment, the unbalanced level 3 equipment, or ignore relevance: such as designs using lots of normally faction restricted tech. Crays definition though is dead on.
(Jeff Foxworthy:)You may be a munchkin if: You constantly compare BVs, and often try to optimize your BV You ignore cost in cbills. You always build clan mechs. Your use of medium lasers (or the derivatives) in designs accounts for at least 2/3rds the weapondry on most of your designs. You change rules to make your designs or mechs better, such as 100 ton LAMs. Your favorite cannon designs are those that are arena mechs, or the clan equivalents like the Goshawk.
I find that 'pinpoint' accuracy during a bombing run increases proportionally with the amount of munitions used.
-Commander Nathaniel Klepper,
Avanti's Angels, 3058
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Deathshadow
12/18/03 03:58 PM
24.34.86.226
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I would add to that -
If you think that life support is optional, but a targeting computer isn't...
If you think the Large X-Pulse Laser is a light support weapon...
If you think 3/5/3 is a versatile movement rate...
If you think a 90 tonner with max standard armor is underprotected...
If your miniature collection includes 12 Dire Wolfs, yet not a single design under 85 tons...
Kept my cool under lock and key,
and I never shed a tear,
another sign of my condidtion.
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Vicen_Korel
12/18/03 08:38 PM
66.38.6.9
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...A forty point heat spike isn't a problem if you can blow up any mech in the process. ...your idea of a bad first round is your alpha strike with 4 er ppc's didn't hit ...it takes your mech more than 3 turns to completely cool down ...it doesn't seem excessive to you if all your mechwarriors have a pilot skill of 1 and a gunnery skill of 0
"Nothing sends your love like an ER PPC"
--Vicen Korel
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Silenced_Sonix
12/20/03 11:38 AM
168.209.97.34
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... if you only build Clan, but insist on using the best of Sphere tech too, like C3 and Null-Sig/Stealth armor ... if you do air ballet with a mech just so that the target gets the biggest possible modifier to his to-Hit number
Evolve or Die
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Deathshadow
12/20/03 04:52 PM
24.34.86.226
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Quote:
... if you do air ballet with a mech just so that the target gets the biggest possible modifier to his to-Hit number
Hey, I resemble that comment!!!
Kept my cool under lock and key,
and I never shed a tear,
another sign of my condidtion.
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Silenced_Sonix
12/21/03 09:04 AM
168.209.97.34
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Air ballet is not allowed, anyway - when using jumpjets, the 'mech must follow the shortest possible route from his starting hex to his ending hex. Read the Compendium if you disagree.
And I think you meant "resent", not "resemble".
Evolve or Die
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Deathshadow
12/21/03 09:42 PM
24.34.86.226
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No, I meant resemble, a common turn of phrase, surprised your not familiar with it.
And while yes, I do use full movement on jump every turn with my 'mechs, I do it within the rules (IE as close to straight line as possible). Truthfully, I keep forgetting that people use the term 'air ballet' for what I simply call CHEATING.
Kept my cool under lock and key,
and I never shed a tear,
another sign of my condidtion.
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NeverSayNever
02/26/05 04:13 PM
172.182.105.13
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I know, I'm a lil late, sorry, but better late than never ...
Cray offered a really nice definition, unfortunately he forgot to mention the famous "munchkin list" from the old rec.games.mecha newsgroup. Enjoy!
Quote:
And now, with out further ado, the Battle Tech Munchkin List 1) Favorite Mech Real Men pilot Marauders Roleplayers pilot Griffins Loonies pilot Locusts with paintballs loaded for the MG'S Munchkins pilot Daishi-X's with Triple Heat Sinks, Jumpjets, 6 LPLs and TC. 2) Favorite Mech Weapon Real Men use ER-PPC'S Roleplayers use LB-X10AC's with Cluster Loonies use Smoke SRM's Munchkins use ER Pulse Compact XL PPCs, with built in TC. 3) Favorite Ground Vehicle Real Men drive Demolisher IV's Roleplayers drive refitted Saladins Loonies drive Cooler Trucks loaded with 9 tons of Hagen-Daz Munchkins drive Overlord Dropships 4) Favorite Personal firearm Real Men use Gyro-Slug rifles; Roleplayers use Hold-Out pulse laser pistols Loonies use Super Soakers Munchkins use de-mounted Mech large pulse lasers 4a) Favorite Personal melee weapon Real Men use Vibro-blades Roleplayers use Stun Sticks Loonies use rubber chickens Munchkins use Mechs 5) Favorite Faction Real Men play DCMS Elites Roleplayers play Rhonda's Irregulars Loonies play Word Of Bob Munchkins form their own Clan (Clan Doom Munchkin) 7) Favorite piece of equipment Real take Flak Suits Roleplayers take sticky gloves Loonies take vibra-bombs loaded with confetti Munchkins take Improved Elemental Armor with move 5/5, 50 points of armor, and a Mech ER-PPC 8) Favorite Archetype Real men take Veteran Mechwarrior Roleplayers take Medics, Aero-Space pilots, or Technical Wizard Loonies take Janitor Munchkins take Blood Named Clan Il-Khan 9) Favorite Skill Real choose Piloting Mech Roleplayers choose Technician Loonies choose Natural Aptitude - Swimming Munchkins choose Natural Aptitude Gunnery with a 6 Dex 10) Favorite Non-combat Skill Real Men use Gambling Roleplayers use Land-Management Loonies use Seduction (with a 1 charisma) Munchkins use Natural-Aptitude Whining 11) Favorite Non-combat Activity
Real Men repair and customize their mechs Roleplayers sneak into the secret Com-Star facility and steal new weapons designs Loonies paint targets on their mechs Munchkins have their characters go to Virtual World 12) Favorite Drink Real Men drink Timbiqui Dark Roleplayers drink Aldeberan Fizzes Loonies drink Lighter Fluid Munchkins drink Stim-Packs / whatever gives them plusses / water (they are all under age, you know) 18) Favorite Combat Phrase: Real Men say "Come Get Some, Asswipe!" Roleplayers say "OK lads, as we practiced it...." Loonies say "I'll run up in front of the Atlas in my Locust and punch it." Munchkins say "What do you mean I missed? I have NA Gunnery with a base skill roll of -6! I can't miss!" 19) Favorite Mech paint scheme Real Men paint their mech in house colors, decorated with skulls, lightning bolts, kill markers, etc. Roleplayers paint the mechs in Camo patterns so good you can't find the mins on the geo-hexes. Loonies paint their mechs in international orange and florescent green paisley. Munchkins paint their mechs with special "invisible paint" that makes the mech completely invisible. 20) Favorite dying words Real Men say "Eat fusion plasma Clan slime!" as they intentionally stackpole their dying mechs. Roleplayers say "C'est la Guerre!" and salute their opponents. Loonies say "Thank you sir, may I have another?" Munchkins say "Damn! I'll have to get another clone out of storage." 21) Favorite terrain Real men prefer to fight in open rolling hills, with a few trees to block LOS. Roleplayers prefer to fight in burning, half-bombed out cities. Loonies prefer to fight inside the containment buildings of operating nuclear powerplants. Munchkins prefer to fight in completely open, flat terrain, where they have heavily mined all aproaches to their position. 22) Favorite planet to invade Real Men like to invade Wotan. Roleplayers like to invade Luthien. Loonies like to invade Luna, of course! Munchkins like to invade the Clan homeworlds all at once, and win. 23) Favorite non-battletech activity Real Men pump iron. Roleplayers read Sun-Tzu's "The Art of War" in the original chinese. Loonies perfect their Marx brothers impersonations. Munchkins go over the text of the "Battletech Compendium" with their family lawyers, looking for loopholes. 24) Favorite roleplaying game other than Battletech/Mechwarrior Real Men play Twilight 2000 Roleplayers play Paranoia Loonies play TOON Munchkins play D&D - only they get to start their characters at 30th level. 25) Favorite Boardgame other than Btech Real Men play Squad Leader Roleplayers play Diplomacy Loonies play Awful Green Things From Outer Space Munchkins play Star Fleet Rules Wars ... err... Star Fleet Battles, and own every single expansion set and addendum - as well as having them memorized. 26) Favorite Computer Game Real Men play Duke Nukem 3D on "Damn I'm Good" with Respawn, and never bother with any of the weapons other than the pistol. Roleplayers play "Myst", and don't own the cheat book. Loonies play "Pac Man", without looking at the screen. Munchkins play "MechWarrior", and have all the cheat codes programmed into their gravis gamepads.
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Greyslayer
02/27/05 06:09 PM
216.14.192.234
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ok I have:
7 'real men' traits 7 'roleplayer' traits 3 'loonie' traits 2 'munchkin' traits 2 'can't for the life of me find something remotely related to what I would do' traits.
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Karagin
02/27/05 11:05 PM
65.129.164.197
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"One, who, on being told that this is a game about politics and intrigue in 17th century Italy, asks to play a ninja." - Andrew Rilstone's definition of "munchkin".
These are the same folks who can't play without having a mech that never overheats, is the fastest it can be for it's weight class, max armor and pulse/targ combo and must be Clan tech and then can only have a 0/0 pilot in it.
They don't play to have fun they play to win at all cost even it if means ruining the game for others.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Spartan
02/28/05 12:10 AM
67.64.114.64
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I've found that games are more interesting if you mix things up and do something that's maybe a little weird and quirky.
For example you can have a Unseen vs Reseen battle.
Or a Unseen vs IIC battle.
All Battlearmor (on a full scale map, not a battletroops style engagement).
Put a group of Savannah Masters on the field and call the scenario Death from a Papercut.
Throw a couple of support units on the map and set up a few rules on protecting or (re)capturing them.
Have a LAM battle(The Quiet of the Land Air Mechs ).
The list goes on.
The slug fests that result from the kind of things that you're describing are rarely, if ever, fun. They're just tedious. But then you knew that already didn't you.
P.S. /rant off
Spartan
We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty.
(I refer you to what Nightward said)
Edited by Spartan (02/28/05 12:12 AM)
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Gnome76
02/28/05 04:11 AM
68.12.242.212
|
A surprisingly fun, but very long, battle I did was a double-blind game, on a home-drawn canyon map.
Something I've been wanting to try lately is an artillery hunt... a lance of tanks with Arrow IV, guarded by two lances of medium 'Mechs, are about to begin bombarding your base, and you have only five heavies, since the rest of your force is fending off an attack from the opposite direction. So, naturally, there's a time limit.
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Spartan
02/28/05 10:51 AM
67.64.113.68
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Another good one. OOOOOOOOOO.... let's start a new thread.
Spartan
We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty.
(I refer you to what Nightward said)
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Spartan
02/28/05 10:56 AM
67.64.113.68
|
That makes me feel bad now that I read it again because I realized that when I design a mech one of the first things I do is max the armor and try to make it fast for it's weight class. And then I add weapons and heat sinks concurrently so that I dont' have to worry about overheats.
Anyone want to join MA with me? Munchkins Anonymous.
Wait I feel a little better because I remembered I don't do the same thing when picking a stock mech. Maybe I don't need a support group.
Spartan
We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty.
(I refer you to what Nightward said)
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NeverSayNever
02/28/05 03:49 PM
172.177.10.225
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Here's another lost lil treasure from the old rec.games.mecha newsgroup. Enjoy!
Quote:
Got this on Thursday. It was worth every blessed cent
http://www.sjgames.com/munchkin/
Some quotes (note:the authors are British, which explains their inability to write proper English):
On Magic:
"Seemingly subtle and boring spells can be hideously abused by a competent munchkin into producing all manner of munchkin effects. Examine each and every spell carefully to seem if you can spot a twink-worthy loophole. There are moral bonus points for demonstrating that some innocuous little "non combat" spell can be used to make people's heads explode. For example, there's that dinky little spell that produces a pint or two of drinking water. This is supposed to be used by idiots who get stuck out in the desert without enough supplies. But check; does your rulebook say *where* this water can or cannot be produced? If not, how is that ogre going to feel when his brain suddenly has to share its skull-space with a pint of water? Similarly, slowing or entangling spells rarely worry dragons much. But will they work for just a few seconds on a flying dragon? If so, don't forget the sound effects: neeeeoooOOOOOOWWWWWW-BOOM!"
On Castle Sieges:
"With a group of archers and a mage with an enlarge spell you can effectively bombard the castle with giant redwoods. Alternatively. you could fill a catapult with gravel and file a granulated mountain."
"Or Monster Summoning; here's an idea. Get a couple of mages to cast this as many times as they can into the enemy's camp and just sit back and watch the fun."
On dress:
"Most modern characters will want to dress stylishly, or at least appropriately for their personality and background. The cheese-weasel couldn't give a monkey's. The only concern s are protection, and modern roleplaying offers them effective protection against most things. It's not unusual to see the modern munchkin in full bomb-squad ballistic armor, wearing a fireproof bodysuit underneath and with an extra flak-jacket on top."
On Crime:
"As far as most criminals would be concerned, the perfect crime would be one in which hey pulled off the whole job without being detected and with no witnesses. The perfect crime for them in one where you can live for the rest of your life on the proceeds from that one job. This is no good whatsoever for the munchkin. The perfect crime for a munchkin is one which involves plenty of gun battles, hopefully a car chase, and some hostage-taking. One that provides more and better guns for the next job and to pay off the extravagant drug habit they've taken among their flaws. Their perfect crime has no witnesses because they've killed them all.
A munchkin-organized bank robbery runs something like this...
9:00am - The group of robbers enters the bank wearing silly masks and brandishing large firearms. They threaten everyone and collect all the money from the cashiers and people in the back. They break open the automatic tellers and take all the cash out of their, too. 9:05am - The security guard tries to be a hero and gets thirty rounds from an Ingram for his trouble. There is much screaming and swearing. 9:06am - A squad support machine gun is set up in the foyer to keep the police out. 9:07am - Work begins on breaking into the vault. 9:09am - The police arrive; the first ones in are shot down in a hail of fully-automatic fire. The police pull back and call for an armed response team. 9:15am - One of the robbers tortures the manager to death in a back room for no readily apparent reason 9:20am - The robbers set booby traps on all the entrances. 9:25am - One of the robbers has an illicit sexual encounter with one of the cashiers in the staff toilet for no readily apparent reason. 9:30am - The armed response unit has a bash at getting into the building and gets blown to hell. The police send for more backup. 9:40am - The robbers breach the vault and take a load of money and other valuables. They leave the hostages tied up in the vault with a bomb set for 9:50 a.m. 9:45am - The robbers make good their escape by assaulting the police lines with military grade fully-automatic weaponry and a few grenades. The city's finest is slaughtered and the robbers take off in a few cars, hotly pursued by police, who they continue to kill until they reach Mexico. They then blow all their cash on drugs, tequila and senoritas before heading back to the States to do it all again."
On capturing aliens:
"The Alien Control Device: Used to control aliens. "But how is this possible?" we hear you ask. This unit is quite simply a cattle prod. (Starting to get the idea yet?) You prod the alien with the fwazakking en and they do what you want; if they don't, you fwazak them again until they do. Aliens are supposed to by technologically advanced and quite intelligent, so they should understand quite quickly that compliance means an end to the pain. If not, they are obviously overrated and you need to find the higher intelligence that's controlling them."
On Mecha: "The humanoid mecha is the backbone of most mecha-oriented militaries, and is often found as a mass-produced grunt model. This makes it just a tad predictable; everyone who has a mecha has probably owned a humanoid one at some point and therefore knows all its weakness and quirks. The other problem with this style is that, due to its use as a front-line grunt soldier, everyone knows that they pilot is in the torso or the head, so everyone shoots out the torso section, or blows off the head, at the first opportunity."
On Tanks:
"As a downside, tanks are often slow and get shot at an awful lot. The expression "F*ck! It's a tank! Blast it, Skeeter!" is not entirely unknown on the battlefield. Should you want a tank, then you should go for a big bastard with loads of armor and gun; sod the speed, you're a tank for Christ's sake. Roll over people, slowly, while laughing."
On Superpowers:
"Some people would say that a superhero has to be responsible and use his powers with restraint so that he doesn't accidentally destroy and entire city with his eye beams, ect. ect. We say sod that; where's the fun in holding back? If you are in a fight with a supervillian and you have the power to destroy the entire city he resides in while remaining completely unhurt yourself, they do it. OK, so it might kill loads of civilians, but who cares? They were probably guilty of something, even if it was a late library books."
On your colleagues:
"Just about every RPG book in existence has, in its opening section, a paragraph or two about how roleplaying games are different to normal games. They are non-competitive, oriented toward cooperative play, and encourage teamwork. The GM is not the enemy, he merely acts as a narrator, setting the scene and playing the bit parts. Wrong. As every munchkin knows, the GM is the enemy and the other players are there to be exploited, used, stolen from, and probably killed for their worth in experience points. They are the secondary enemy, you are on your own, and any means you can use to crush, humiliate and destroy them is cool."
On GMing:
"Are your players Munchkins?: Question 6: The characters are locked in a room with a demon who wants them to sign away their souls by contract. What do they do? a. Quiver and pray for salvation b. Sell their soul in exchange for massive amounts of power (with a view to a double-cross) c. Sign, trying to hide their laughter at the demon who is to stupid to realize they have already signed with his boss."
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NeverSayNever
02/28/05 03:54 PM
172.177.10.225
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Yet another lost treasure from rec.games.mecha. Enjoy!
Quote:
Oh, inspired by Probe and many others of the Church of Battletech . . . and with apologies to Jeff Foxworthy . . .
YOU MIGHT BE A MUNCHKIN IF . . .
(The original, plus some additions)
-you and your friend decide to play Battletech, you show your friend the mech and that person babbles "Game Over, Game Over" for the next ten minutes.
-your friend babbles for the rest of his life (personal expreience (jbezeau@uoguelph.ca (Jonboy!))
-people you play against insist on picking both there and your mechs.
-you wish Battletech still had 150 ton mechs.
- your battletech still does. ((jbezeau@uoguelph.ca (Jonboy!)) -you think the words "Clan Honor Code" is a controdiction in terms, and you insist on being in one of the Clans.
- you think RoE means Roll Over Eleven, and hold the clan players to it. (jbezeau@uoguelph.ca (Jonboy!))
-you think that tactical nukes would be a nice addition to the game, especially if they could be mounted on a Mech (also known as "Lance Immediate Disappearance Equipment").
-you have had fights over your belief that you SHOULD be allowed more tonnage than anybody else since you use "cooler gadgets".
-you use a lot of "cooler gadgets".
-any of the cooler gadgets are from unbound. (jbezeau@uoguelph.ca (Jonboy!))
-you "create" a lot of "new cool gadgets".
-like advanced DNI... (jbezeau@uoguelph.ca (Jonboy!))
-all the "new cool gadgets" take up only one crit and one ton, but are more lethal than a Gauss Rifle.
-all the cool new gadgets reduce the effectiveness of the only weapons that the other players are allowed to use. (jbezeau@uoguelph.ca (Jonboy!))
------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From JYSETO@SCIENCE.watstar.uwaterloo.ca (QYV):
- You make your "ultra suprime" mech and when it gets blown up (really easily), you say: "well, it wuzn't designed for that situation anywayz."
- You design the ultimate mech that only works underwater if the temperature was 5 degrees C, the visibility was nil and your enemy only has infantry.
- You use scouts as mobile tactial nukes.
- You use dropships as cannon fodder.
- You consider 50 longtoms as "sufficient" artillery support for a lance. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Camille Klein, (capella@winternet.com):
#insert
If you show up at a gaming session, only to have everyone else decide to surrender to you on the spot -- you might be a munchkin! ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From G. Timothy Walton (bc106@FreeNet.Carleton.CA):
If you can't understand why no-one will let you use your HV Caseless Ultra LB 20-X on your ASN, you might be a munchkin.
If you refuse to fight unless you get higher tonnage, two levels of technology advantage, and automatic initiative, against the newbies you're teaching, you might be a munchkin.
If you think FASA's designers are stupid for not putting the best tech on every war machine, and eliminating all design flaws, regardless of role/cost considerations, you _are_ a munchkin ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Robert York (york@bigdog.engr.arizona.edu):
If you make a 100 tonner with a 1/2 engine, you might be a redmech (har har har, oops sorry a munchkin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
These are in no particular order, but are as close to the originals as I can get. Flames ignored, but asbestos is already donned (and it is *itchy*). Anyway, any more suggestions?
Owen Holder
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The_Gangster_of_Boats
03/03/05 10:34 PM
64.57.227.41
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I have been known to do some slighty munchkin-ish stuff on occaision. Mainly, the group of us that plays have been doing it for so long that we had to some extreme engineering. We do stay within the normal rules of the game and really avoid unbound-type stuff. We've even gone as far as dropping the use of Angel ECM in our gaming group. I still use LAMs, my best friend was too busy laughing at me to notice that I had taken out a Warhawk of his by out-maneuvering him. It is an effective unit as part of a company. I have slowed mine down and, use them for recon, or fixing enemy units in place. The way we have been playing, we have to really have our tactical and strategic stuff together, as well as the technology.
Don't run, you'll just die tired.
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NeverSayNever
03/08/05 05:47 PM
172.178.44.207
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What are the best / nastiest / munchiest stock Mechs / vehicles of a given era and weight class?
I'd like to start with the 3025 era, still one of my favorite BT timelines.
- a couple of proposals (in no particular order):
light Mech: Locust-1E Jenner-F Javelin-F Wolfhound-1
light vehicle: Savannah Master
medium Mech: Hunchback-P Griffin-1N Wolverine-M
medium vehicle:
heavy Mech: Thunderbolt-SE Warhammer-D Marauder-D
heavy vehicle: LRM-carrier SRM-carrier
assault class Mech: Awesome-Q Battlemaster-G
assault class vehicle: Shrek
You might have noticed already, it's an incomplete list, and of course, please feel free to add some of your own personal favorites.
I tend to prefer to play with Mechs (not many vehicles listed), of course with some of my personal Mecha favorites - if possible (freedom of choice) -, but I'm not a hard core munchkin, so I don't mind playing with some randomly assigned stuff too, because it's almost always fun and or a really tough challenge too.
While we're at it, any suggestions for the worst Mechs / vehicles of a given era and weight class?
How about the Shadow Hawk-D in the medium Mech category?
How about ...?
Come on, please join the fray!
Let loose the little munchkin within ...
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Nightward
03/08/05 10:54 PM
203.217.84.85
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LEVEL ONE
20: LCT-1E Locust (Variant). Honourable mention: STG-3G Stinger (Variant). 25: MON-66 Mongoose. 30: VLK-QA Valkyrie. 35: WLF-1 Wolfhound. Honourable mention: Jenner (both Variants). 40: WTH-1 Whitworth. Honourable mention: HER-4K Hermes III. 45: PHX-1D Phoenix Hawk (Variant). Honourable mentions: WVE-6N Wyvern, VND-1R Vindicator. 50: HBK-4P Hunchback (Variant). Honourable mentions: Centurion (all Variants) CRB-20 Crab, Yen-lo-wang (Centurion Variant). 55: WVR-6M Wolverine (Variant). Honourable mention: Griffin (both Variants) SHD-2H Shadow Hawk. 60: DRG-1G Grand Dragon. 65: Thunderbolt (all Variants). Honourable mention: CRD-3D Crusader. 70: ARC-2S Archer. Honourable mentions: Archer (all variants), GLT-4L Guillotine, Grashopper (both variants), WHM-6D War Hammer. 75: MAD-3D Marauder. Honourable mention: Orion. 80: AWS-8Q Awesome. Honourable mentions: CGR-1A5 Charger, CGR-SB Charger, VTR-9B Victor. 85: Stalker (All bar STK-4P). Honourable mentions: BLR-1G and BLR-1D Battle Masters, SHG-1E Shogun. 90: HGN-733 Highlander. 95: BNC-3S Banshee. 100: IMP-2E Imp. Honourable mention: AS7-D Atlas, MAD-4A Marauder Mark II.
INNER SPHERE LEVEL TWO.
20: MCY-99 Mercury. 25: RTX-0F Raptor (Omni Configuration F). Honourable mention: All other Raptor Omni Configurations. 30: AF1-A Arctic Fox (Omni Configuration A). Honourable mentions: Anubis (All Variants), BH-K305 Battle Hawk, SCB-9T Scarabus. 35: JVN-10 Javelin. Honourable mentions: BZK-F3 Hollander, RVN-4L Raven, SPR-5F Spector, Wolfhound (Both Variants). 40: SYU-2B Sha Yu. 45: FS9-0 Firestarter OmniMech (All Omni Configurations, though IMO the F variant is the best.) Honourable mention: WFT-1 Wolf Trap. 50: CN9-D5 Centurion (AKA: RACturion). Honourable mentions: Enforcer III (Both Variants), RJN101-A Raijin, TSN-C3 Tessen, Yen-lo-wang. 55: TR1 Wraith. Honourable mentions: MS1-O Men Shen OmniMech (All Omni Configurations), WVR-7K Wolverine. 60: Ti T'sang (Both Variants). Honourable mentions: BHKU-0 Black Hawk-KU OmniMech (All OmniConfigurations, especially the Prime and E versions), OTL-6D Ostsol, OTL-8M Ostsol. 65: JN-G8A Jinggau. Honourable mention: CPLT-C5 Catapault. 70: Barghest (All Variants). Honourable mention: GHR-6K Grasshopper, ST-8A Shootist. 75: BL-12-KNT Black Knight. Honourable mention: BNDR-01A Bandersnatch, P1-0 Perseus OmniMech (All Omni Configurations) MDG-2A Rakshasa (or as we refer to it, the RACshasa.), TYM-1A Toyama. 80: Legacy (Both Variants). 85: CRK-5003-1 Crockett. Honourable mentions: STK-7D Stalker, TLR-0 Templar (Prime, B, and Tancred Configurations only). 90: AKU-1X Akuma. Honourable mentions: EMP-6A Emperor, Highlander (all Variants), Viking (both Variants) Yu Huang (Both Variants). 95: NSR-9J Nightstar. Honourable mentions: HA1-O Hauptmann (all Omni Configurations are dangerous, but I favour the B version), SGT-8R Sagittaire. 100: Thunderhawk (all Variants are dangerous, but I prefer the TDK-7KMA Variant). Honurable mentions: KGC-001 and KGC-005 King Crabs, FNR-5 Fafnir, Grand Titan (both Variants).
CLAN OMNIMECHS.
The following were selected by the capabilities of existing Omni variants, not because of the potential of the chassis.
20: Fire Moth. (No other options available, but the Fire Moth is insane, particularly in its D and H versions). 25: Fire Falcon. 30: Hellion. Honourable mention: Hankyu. 35: Adder. 40: Battle Cobra. Honourable mentions: Phantom, Pouncer. 45: Grendel. Honourable mentions: Ice Ferret, Shadow Cat. 50: Huntsman. Honourable mentions: Crimson Languar. 55: Stooping Hawk. Honourable mentions: Stormcrow, Black Lanner. 60: Mad Dog. (No other options available. IMO, the Mad Dog is a pretty poor 'Mech and I'd spring for something slightly heavier. The Mad Dog H is not as bad as the others, however.) 65: Cauldron-Born. Honourable mention: Crossbow. 70: Nova Cat. 75: Timber Wolf (Possibly the best-designed 'Mech ever). Honourable Mention: Night Gyr. 80: Gargoyle. (No other options available. The Gargoyle is worthless, however; anything it can do, the Timber Wolf can do better. Do not bother with a Gargoyle unless there are truly no other options available.) Honourable mention: Naga (The usefulness of this 'Mech depends on your skill at BT. I ran top five in a tournament in a Naga, but its use for anything other than artillery in real games is nil). 85: Warhawk. Honourable mention: Savage Coyote. 90: Kingfisher. Honourable mention: Blood Asp (the Blood Asp is difficult to use effectively due to its low ammunition and armour. Leave it for the veterans of the game). 95: Turkina. 100: Well, duh. Dire Wolf. I use the Widowmaker wherever possible, but the Dire Wolf A is quite nearly as insane.
CLAN SECONDLINE
20: Howler. 25: Locust IIC (Marks I, IV, and V are the better choices). 30: Pack Hunter. Honourable mention: Mandrill, Incubus (all Variants). 35: Spirit. Honourable mentions: Grinner (aka Wolfhound IIC), Jenner IIC (only use the standard model. The others are a waste of time). 40: Arctic Wolf. 45: Shadow Hawk IIC Mark II. Honourable mention: Wyvern IIC. 50: Ursus. Honourable mention: Conjurer. 55: Vapour Eagle. (Kiddies, take note of this design. It is quite possibly the most dangerous thing you will ever see.) 60: Glass Spider Mark II. 65: Arcas (both are sound designs, though I prefer the standard model to the Mark II). 70: Guillotine IIC. 75: Burrock. Honourable mention: Orion IIC. 80: Phoenix Hawk IIC (the Mark I is not impressive, but Marks II, III, and IV make up for that). Honourable mention: Canis. 85: Blood Kite (if you pick a second-line assualt outside of the Highlander IIC, make sure it is this). Honurable mention: Maruader IIC. 90: Highlander IIC. 95: No 95-ton Clan Second-Line designs exist. 100: Bane (all Bane variants are dangerous, but the Bane III is to be preferred).
THINGS NOT TO TOUCH WITH A BARGE POLE
The Worst Designed 'Mechs EVAR.
INNER SPHERE
20: Fireball. It lives up to its name. 35: OTT-7K Ostscout. Carries no weapons. If you're that desperate for a fast-moving TAG unit, use a Sprint Scout Helicopter. 35: RVN-1X. Used to have special rules. No longer does. 40: Asassin. Cicada.* Clint. All are under-armoured. (*There is a nice Cicada variant in Record Sheets: Upgrades, but other than that, this 'Mech blows.) 60: Champion, Lancelot. Both are ever-engined, and undergunned and under-armoured. Helios. Piece of garbage from the word go; no redeeming features whatsoever. Rifleman. Over-armed, under-armoured, and under-cooled. 65: JagerMech. Over-gunned, under-armoured. Hellbringer (Clan OmniMech). Worthless. 75: WR-DG-02FC. Useless. Over-supplied with Gauss ammo, and as a result armour has suffered. Carries two One-Shot Streak SRM-2s when it should carry standard launchers with a ton of ammunition. Both 3055-era Rakshasas. The Inner Sphere cannot replicate Clan technology, let alone the masterwork that is the Timber Wolf. 80: Standard-model Chargers from 3025. Engine too large, armour and weapons far too weak. 90: Cyclops (up until 3050). Not impressed by this design. 100: Mackie. It might be the first 'Mech to be built, but by 3025 you can build 50-tonners to the same specifications.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Greyslayer
03/09/05 02:12 AM
203.61.67.85
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Quote:
30: VLK-QA Valkyrie. 40: WTH-1 Whitworth. 55: Honourable mention: Griffin (both Variants)
75:
Okay, why the Valkie? It sucks unless you have heaps of them. The Whitworth is okay but not worthy of being classified 'munchie'. It uses 2 x LRM10s, something I have proved beyond a point to be the least munchy of any LRM rack in the game.
Rating the Griffin as an honourable mention was far better than classifying it munchie due to the fact it has nowhere near full armour, all weapons are on the right-hand side of the unit, it used 2 tons of ammo where it needs probably only one for its role and it generally overheats alot as well as using the aforementioned most-useless of the LRM racks. The Lineholder for those wanting to see a more solid unit, would be classified as closer to munchie than the Griffin.
For the 75 tonners, no mention of the Flashman?
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Nightward
03/09/05 06:10 PM
203.166.253.156
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The Flashman is good, but not great. Personally, I really think it needs to move 5/8 and/or have support to be dangerous. The unit I created was there to annihilate LRM and PPC forces- which it did well- but everyone else showed up with Medium Laser outfits and slaughtered me.
The choices on that list are the best by tonnage, not the best by what they can do The Griffin is a good 'Mech, so long as you can use it. The Griffin-S is not bad, either.
Also, it was by the era- for Level One I really only looked at the units known fluff-wise to have been around back then. Otherwise, the Starslayer would also have made it.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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villagereaver
03/10/05 02:42 PM
24.21.141.201
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Any mech i play is teh munchkin.
I like the HER-1S. It is truly the best ML platform around. And look at all that tech!
The HSR-200-D Pussar comes in a close second.
Death to all BT and MW authors. For they are the bane of all that is good about the genre!
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NileIngrams
03/12/05 07:40 PM
144.138.217.36
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Quote:
LEVEL ONE
THINGS NOT TO TOUCH WITH A BARGE POLE
The Worst Designed 'Mechs EVAR.
INNER SPHERE
20: Fireball. It lives up to its name. 35: OTT-7K Ostscout. Carries no weapons. If you're that desperate for a fast-moving TAG unit, use a Sprint Scout Helicopter. 35: RVN-1X. Used to have special rules. No longer does. 40: Asassin. Cicada.* Clint. All are under-armoured. (*There is a nice Cicada variant in Record Sheets: Upgrades, but other than that, this 'Mech blows.) 60: Champion, Lancelot. Both are ever-engined, and undergunned and under-armoured. Helios. Piece of garbage from the word go; no redeeming features whatsoever. Rifleman. Over-armed, under-armoured, and under-cooled. 65: JagerMech. Over-gunned, under-armoured. Hellbringer (Clan OmniMech). Worthless. 75: WR-DG-02FC. Useless. Over-supplied with Gauss ammo, and as a result armour has suffered. Carries two One-Shot Streak SRM-2s when it should carry standard launchers with a ton of ammunition. Both 3055-era Rakshasas. The Inner Sphere cannot replicate Clan technology, let alone the masterwork that is the Timber Wolf. 80: Standard-model Chargers from 3025. Engine too large, armour and weapons far too weak. 90: Cyclops (up until 3050). Not impressed by this design. 100: Mackie. It might be the first 'Mech to be built, but by 3025 you can build 50-tonners to the same specifications.
Hmm it definitely shows that you don't play with the BV (BattleValue) Point System, and put very little credence into the damage a good physical attack can do. The Cidada is one of the best charge wagons for Level 1 technology - ever suffered a 44 point charge to your rear torso? Also the CDA can soak up *alot* of damage, even with it's weakling armor. And how many BV points is a level 1 CDA-2A : 567 points. A medium mech that costs the same amount as a light, and still does some hefty damage in the physical department. You can say the same about the standard level1 charger CGR-1A1. It only costs 820 BV! That is in the same BV cost range as many Medium Mechs, and the same speed too. 160 points isn't bad for a level 1 unit - the HBK has the same, but can a HBK deliver a 16 point kick?
Every mech has it's uses.... even the old Jagermech - I wouldn't want to put it in a lance that is going to face Warhammers and Archers, but I wouldn't mind playing it against Demolishers, Behemoths and Ontoses.
Not every mech is useless. Each mech has a role to play that is unique to their characteristic, when you can learn how to play them effectively, you will appreciate them better.
NileIngrams NI! - The Killer of Threads!
In the time before the return of the heirs of Kerensky,
when the Successor Lords had tired of bathing worlds in Nuclear Madness,
there was an age of High Adventure!
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NeverSayNever
12/10/06 10:37 AM
172.178.244.224
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Quote:
huh dose that mean
Just stumbled upon the following wikipedia entry:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munchkin_(role-playing_games)
All you ever - or never - wanted to know about Munchkins, Munchkinism (AKA Powergaming) etc.
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JackGarrity
12/11/06 01:17 AM
71.207.203.207
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damn i fit some qualites of the munchyness then ahah. i usually max the armor first, cuz our GM liked to see how fast he could make everyone go Splode! as to medium lasers, well, they work pretty decent and its the range mosta our combat seemed to take place; engine.. eh varies because i look at the walk/run/sprint MP instead of the engine itself, trying to match speed vs the abilites of the weapons; und as to the lvl3 tech a lot of it seems efficent and works. So, might as we utalize the most effective gear for a singleualr design for the most part. Or take the 'munchkin' design as a sort of system concept, like managing to find a SL era mech, still in the box, seals on the guns etc, well Damn you could use it and wreck ass kickery all over the place, syre like every one else does. Or you could beat the think tank with a stick and try to replicate/reproduce the design as best you can. As to affiliation/faction access to gear, personally for a long time it was just lists and lists of stats and equipment, so mixing and matching to make a single effective design; Regardless of whom blah belonged too, was what I did and perhaps a lot do. Side note.. Xpulse.. no tank chu; hell im not even fond of PPCs, but then again Im horribly anal about heat curve, cuz shutting down mid fight, can make you wind up dead.
Greetings Mechwarrior.
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NewPharoah_Max
12/16/06 12:42 PM
207.160.205.13
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Definitions for the word "munchkin" found in Google's directory. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=define%3A+munchkin&btnG=Google+Search
Greetings to you too.
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NewPharoah_Max
12/29/06 12:08 PM
207.160.205.13
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Quote:
Finally, a "Munchkin" is playing to "win", and doesn't really understand that the point of this game at least, is not to win, but just to play.
That's something a con artist would say in a poker game at a casino.
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A Munchkin is the most likely to want to create extremely powerful characters, and to try to find abuses and loopholes in the rules to, again, give their characters more power. A Munchkin is the most likely to confuse Roleplaying Games with the other games that call themselves RPGs, such as Computer and Video Game RPGs, and not see the difference. Munchkins tend to be the younger players, those newer to roleplaying, and even the name comes from the "short people with high pitched voices" from The Wizard of Oz book and movie. Other roleplayers tend to look down on them, as undeveloped.
Cray, first, roleplaying is when one or more persons take the role of character(s) to teach and learn how to solve problems; and second, given how Gerald O' Donnell said that thoughts, when manifested, become real, you have to remember that a person playing a roleplaying game has to do his/her best to win because roleplaying is often done in the mind state of alpha. And what do you consider "short"? A short adult man in the United States is any man who's height is 5' 5" or less.
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Battletech players often tend to look down heavily upon "munchkinny" designs which use the broken equipment, the unbalanced level 3 equipment, or ignore relevance: such as designs using lots of normally faction restricted tech.
Perhaps the reason why you consider level 3 equipment "unbalanced" is because you haven't studied mathematical proportional fractions. What mathematics courses have you taken?
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Crays definition though is dead on. (Jeff Foxworthy:) You may be a munchkin if: You constantly compare BVs, and often try to optimize your BV
See my casino comment above.
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You ignore cost in cbills.
In salvage operations yeah, though I want those under my command who do the salvage work to be paid correctly.
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You always build clan mechs.
No I don't; the 'Mechs I design are usually mixedtech 'Mechs.
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Your use of medium lasers (or the derivatives) in designs accounts for at least 2/3rds the weapondry on most of your designs.
No they don't.
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You change rules to make your designs or mechs better, such as 100 ton LAMs.
What's wrong with 100 ton LAMs?
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Your favorite cannon designs are those that are arena mechs, or the clan equivalents like the Goshawk.
What makes you so certain my favorite designs are canon designs?
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I would add to that - If you think that life support is optional, but a targeting computer isn't...
As if life support is needed on airhaving worlds when you're using a UtilityMech to laser carve statues.
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If you think the Large X-Pulse Laser is a light support weapon...
How about I consider it to be a large support weapon especially like when compared to a NL55? Again what mathematics have you taken?
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If you think 3/5/3 is a versatile movement rate...
Once my Versatile 'Mech information is placed on the Designs forums check it out. I think it has those movement capabilities.
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If you think a 90 tonner with max standard armor is underprotected...
Well I prefer to use hardened armor.
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If your miniature collection includes 12 Dire Wolfs, yet not a single design under 85 tons...
I don't have a miniature collection.
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A forty point heat spike isn't a problem if you can blow up any mech in the process.
Heat levels aren't that high.
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...your idea of a bad first round is your alpha strike with 4 er ppc's didn't hit
You mean linked ppc's.
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...it takes your mech more than 3 turns to completely cool down ...it doesn't seem excessive to you if all your mechwarriors have a pilot skill of 1 and a gunnery.
Oh they can cool down in under 3 turns. I prefer to have piloting skills very good and gunnery skills BVwise.
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if you only build Clan, but insist on using the best of Sphere tech too, like C3 and Null-Sig/Stealth armor
I designed alot of mixed tech units. And yes I have been using C3 and Null-Sig
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... if you do air ballet with a mech just so that the target gets the biggest possible modifier to his to-Hit number
check
Greetings to you too.
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Venom
12/30/06 12:46 AM
63.241.182.3
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Quote:
These are the same folks who can't play without having a mech that never overheats, is the fastest it can be for it's weight class, max armor and pulse/targ combo and must be Clan tech and then can only have a 0/0 pilot in it.
They don't play to have fun they play to win at all cost even it if means ruining the game for others.
Of those 6 things listed, my Annilator refit meets none of the criteria(unless some chucklehead puts a 0/0 in it). Yet it was munchy? You are confusing Karagin.
To me a munch is someone who: -starts play with a 5/3 pilot -that does not accept when the dice come up 12 with an AC/20 that, yes their pilot is dead and they have to start all over -that abuses the TC/PL thing(there are canon 'mechs that exhibit this particular combo) -uses an LAM other than the canon ones(and even then they are pushing it) -has unlimited access to Clan Weapons and can build their 'mechs -uses Lvl 3 tech outside of Solaris -uses 100 ton, barely mobile pillboxes with full armor -uses 20 ton, ultra fast 'mechs with a bunch of small pulse lasers and a TC -has more than 6 medium lasers(unless it is a nova, novas rock!)
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