Cray
01/22/04 06:16 AM
68.200.106.169
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Quote:
once again, thanks to everyone for all the info. i'm pretty sure that i'm not intrested in playing MWDA. I've had a look at some of the source material for it, and i think that i'm just going to stick with CBT.
Fair 'nuff. Heck, I'll be using CBT rules even if I DO play in the MWDA setting. Minis (especially when you cannot design the vehicle behind them) do nothing for me. You can design vehicles and mechs with CBT:MWDA.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
01/22/04 09:28 AM
195.238.43.161
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I think you have it backwards...the RS MWDA is letting in MWDA into the CBT setting, NOTHING allows CBT into MWDA, how about showing us that one...a way to use the current CBT stuff in MWDA...which is my point but you seemed to miss it. May be I wasn't clearly expressing it.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
01/22/04 09:29 AM
195.238.43.161
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Works for me...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
01/22/04 09:33 AM
195.238.43.161
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I am not mis representing anything. Nothing so far put out shows any kind of support to allow CBT into MWDA and given that ONLY one item that has come out has MWDA coming over to CBT not the other way around.
You say you won't by Clickytech, yet you will buy MWDA...last time I looked MWDA and Clickytech ARE THE SAME THING. So which is it for you? Because you have confused me on where you stand here.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
01/22/04 09:37 AM
195.238.43.161
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First...the current MWDA isn't FASA's baby anymore...it's WKs so the whole thing has the taint of MageKnights with mechs.
Second, when the 20 year up date was done it was with support material all ready to go and it came out with in a year of the Update. So far nothing has come out to suppor the big jump that MWDA is for CBT other then the record sheets but those don't give you anything to bring your current game to new timeline and nothing is done in a single EASY TO USE sourebook that still leaves things open enough for the fans to use.
So far everything out there on MWDA is set to have you buy the WK figures and toys and leaves the CBT miniatures in the dust...please show us anything beyond the MWDA RS that supports intergration of CBT into the MWDA setting...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
01/22/04 10:53 AM
147.160.1.5
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Well, I'm glad I didn't put money behind my guesstimate you only had internet access on the weekends. 
Quote:
the current MWDA isn't FASA's baby anymore...it's WKs so the whole thing has the taint of MageKnights with mechs.
Kind of, in a round about way, yes. The plan was for Wizkids to use their Clicktech to explore the MWDA, while CBT concentrated on exploring how the MWDA setting came about, starting with the current 3067-era and moving forward. So, yeah, you could say the MWDA is Wizkid's baby, but that only goes so far.
I mean, both CBT and MWDA:Clicktech share writers, so you can't say a secretive group of WK writers is tainting the work. Randall, Warner, and Herb (I know I overlooked some) all contributed to MWDA background, most obviously the Touring the Stars posts and INN Interactive Map. They are also primary writers of the latest and upcoming CBT products. I believe Loren Coleman, Chris Hartford, and Chris "Bones" Trossen are also involved in both games to some extent.
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So far everything out there on MWDA is set to have you buy the WK figures and toys and leaves the CBT miniatures in the dust...please show us anything beyond the MWDA RS that supports intergration of CBT into the MWDA setting...
So you ask, so you shall receive.
Let me point you to resources that completely trump the RS:MWDA.
1) They're free of Clicktech bias. In fact, they're open for use with any game system, not just CBT and Clicktech.
2) Not only are they free of Clicktech bias, but they're FREE, and canon.
3) They have a bigger and more detailed planetary atlas than anything ever published for CBT, with 250 planets. Most planet entries provide a larger description of the planet than found in published CBT atlases, including the planet's history, and history of the planet during the Jihad. Two sections (Prefectures VI and VII, 24 and 26 planets respectively) were not completed, so of the 250 planets, "only" 200 have those backgrounds.
4) They provided faction historical backgrounds starting from the founding of a faction to the MWDA.
5) Did I mention they're free?
6) Did I mention they don't have a Clicktech bias? They'll work with CBT just fine.
The following items provide the background fluff that would help game play. Further integration of the MWDA setting only needs the Battletech Master Rules (I recommend the revised edition), and optionally Aerotech 2 (I recommend waiting for the revised edition).
Map. Click on a planet for details. Note Prefectures VI and VII are not complete, but the other 8 (with 200 planets by my count) are fully detailed. Also note you can get details on the warring factions on the right side of the map.
Fifty-Two "Historical" Articles on MWDA. Or, that's 52 if I recalled my Roman numerals correctly. LII articles anyway.
Brief Timeline But you're not going to get a TOO detailed timeline of the Jihad because, hey, that's going to be CBT's bread and butter in the upcoming years, right?
Home Page to all that Information
Like I said, that was all written by CBT writers. Randall had some sort of oversight role (because he approved/rejected suggested changes I made), Herb was writing quite a few of the planets and Touring the Stars articles, and I know Warner contributed some planetary details (because he came to me for technical advice on wrecking a planet in the Jihad). They're all involved in the latest CBT products, too.
If you have any rules questions about using CBT in MWDA, ask me. I've got my BMR, AT2, and MW:RPG handy, but it's very easy. You read the background material (and RS:MWDA) to get an idea of the units fighting (just like you would when setting up a battle in any other BT era), then you use CBT maps, CBT rule books, CBT minis/counters, and CBT record sheets, just like any other CBT game.
What problems were you having with using CBT in MWDA?
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Edited by Cray (01/22/04 11:04 AM)
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tgsofgc
01/22/04 04:33 PM
67.4.199.151
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He was talking about future releases that will bring the "Dark Ages" setting more into classic battletech like the record sheets, though he doesn't plan to buy the MWDA game made by wizkids.
I find that 'pinpoint' accuracy during a bombing run increases proportionally with the amount of munitions used.
-Commander Nathaniel Klepper,
Avanti's Angels, 3058
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Gangrene
01/22/04 11:38 PM
24.6.228.14
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I think Karagin is right in that there is not much support for integration of the two games, although I'm not sure why you would really want any. What is available, such as the large scale battle rules and the RS:MWDA are more aimed at using MWDA minis in a CBT setting. Going the other direction is not really an option since the MWDA business plan is centered around the game being collectable. The sources you cited, Cray, are just fluff and lacking in anything substantial, such as rule conversions or scenario packs.
Cray has a good point in that there really isn't much needed to make a CBT game in the MWDA setting. The fluff is readily avaliable. If you're trying to play a MWDA game with CBT minis you're out of luck, though.
Gangrene
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Cray
01/23/04 05:50 AM
68.200.106.169
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Quote:
The sources you cited, Cray, are just fluff and lacking in anything substantial, such as rule conversions or scenario packs.
Well, yeah. That's what you need to get started: fluff to pick factions, set up a campaign, and fight. After that, you just need CBT rules. There's no conversions involved.
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Cray has a good point in that there really isn't much needed to make a CBT game in the MWDA setting. The fluff is readily avaliable. If you're trying to play a MWDA game with CBT minis you're out of luck, though.
I'm not sure I follow. Do you mean use CBT minis in a Clicktech game, or use CBT minis in a CBT game set in the MWDA?
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
01/23/04 08:01 AM
195.238.38.73
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Okay makes sense...
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
01/23/04 08:12 AM
195.238.38.73
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We are in a better camp now and I have some time while we settle in...
Interesting sites. What I was aiming at was things like scenario packs all done up similar to the older books that covered the events from the novels like the Luthien Scenario packs etc...
The rules to use MWDA mechs in BT are there...yes anyone who has the BMR-R can get those. But again I point out there is nothing to allow you to take the game the other way.
Yes one can sit down and make the battles up for CBT but nothing they do is offical or canon for the game...and given that some of the "fluff" has the uberhero syndrome it's kind of hard to get that in a BT game with minatures and such. And again wanting a miniatures game not a RPG one shouldn't need 4 books to play it either.
Given the point system and such that MWDA uses how can you actually get a fair battle in CBT with out causing one side or the other to have more advantages do to the BV or tonage differences?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
01/23/04 09:16 AM
147.160.1.5
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Quote:
We are in a better camp now and I have some time while we settle in...
Cool. I'm all about creature comforts, so a better camp sounds like good news to me.
Quote:
What I was aiming at was things like scenario packs all done up similar to the older books that covered the events from the novels like the Luthien Scenario packs etc...
As I understand, scenario packs are consistently money pits. No one, FASA or other game companies for other games, ever makes money off them. They just don't sell in adequate numbers.
However, it'd be easy to put up some on-line scenarios, wouldn't it? I'll see if I can inspire someone to move in that direction. I know just now the core writers are up to their ears with new CBT projects; we (playtesters) just got done with a cycle of comments on several drafts, and now the writers are trying to incorporate the comments.
Quote:
Given the point system and such that MWDA uses how can you actually get a fair battle in CBT with out causing one side or the other to have more advantages do to the BV or tonage differences?
I think you're trying too hard on the conversion, but (honestly) correct me if this doesn't work for you:
Ignore the MWDA point system - you're playing CBT, not Clicktech. If you want a balanced CBT battle, select CBT units according to BV or tonnage or whatever other CBT method you favor.
If I was trying to convert a Clicktech scenario to CBT, I'd just start by noting roughly which mechs, infantry, and out units the canon sides have, pick their rough CBT equivalents out of a CBT TR/RS, and then pad out the two sides to get the BV balance I wanted. It's a lot like setting up any normal CBT game.
Or were you thinking of something else?
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But again I point out there is nothing to allow you to take the game the other way.
How do you mean? Use Clickbase minis to play out pre-MWDA scenarios, like the invasion of the Clans? Or use BT minis with Clickbase rules?
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Yes one can sit down and make the battles up for CBT but nothing they do is offical or canon for the game...
Is this a problem? I don't think I've ever fought a canon battle in CBT, from 3025 onward. The games that weren't just quick "pick up" games where everybody got X tons to build a force with were usually games in a home scenario involving homemade units fighting homemade campaigns. Even CBT scenario packs give options for victories that do not match the canon outcomes listed in subsequent sourcebooks - when you fight the Battle for Luthien, you can have the Clans win.
When you take a custom unit built with Merc unit creation rules filled with new mechs built (or customized) according to the BMR's construction rules...exactly how much canon do you want? I always just hit the House sourcebooks and Field Manuals to determine who reasonable defenders were, applied the affects (if any) of the ongoing campaign, and let the battles roll. Not very canon at all, but that's half the fun of running your own game - you're not chained to the way things are written, especially if things are written in a way you don't like. I know I don't replay the Clan invasion to let the Clans win as much as they did.
Karagin, hypothesizing that you get the Jihad sourcebook, would you use it to play out the Jihad as written, or to have fun stomping WoBblies before they got out of hand? Or would you use it to find the roots of the Jihad and abort the Jihad all together?
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and given that some of the "fluff" has the uberhero syndrome it's kind of hard to get that in a BT game with minatures and such.
Fair 'nuff. Here's my half-thought-out plan for playing CBT in MWDA:
1) Pick a new House military unit that hasn't been described in MWDA yet, or make a Merc unit in House employ. This avoids the problems of trying to match canon units and canon heroes.
2) As the GM/campaign writer, have the House declare the RotS is in a state of chaos, threatening the well-being of its inhabitants. Therefore, the House must "stabilize the situation" pending "resolution of the problems at hand." (Later, the House can declare the RotS's claim over the planets is null and void, but one step at a time. Gotta win first.) The plot's established, now for the details.
3) Select several planets from the Interactive Map that do not have listed battles or factions on them. Again, this avoids the trouble with canon.
4) Give the planets appropriate defenders, probably determined by referencing RS:MWDA, maybe by just using CBT Technical Readouts. With the military stagnation of MWDA, you can just use old TRs and RSs, after all.
5) Go. See. Conquer...er, stabilize the troubled planets.
6) Figure by the time the planets are conquered, the military-political situation in the surrounding RotS worlds has altered so much that canon defenders and whatnot are no longer accurate, due to redeployments. Go back and repeat steps 3, 4, and 5, but now feeling free to involve planets with known canon TO&Es because the defenders have probably changed.
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And again wanting a miniatures game not a RPG one shouldn't need 4 books to play it either.
You only need the BMR for that, whether its set in 3025, 3067, or 3130. After all, if you're just playing a wargame without any of the trappings of factions and plot, you can say it's whatever date you want. The roleplaying aspects like faction and background don't matter much, do they?
If they do...well, hey, I use upwards of a dozen CBT books to plot out a campaign. The Technical Readouts account for most of those, and the Field Manuals and House Sourcebooks add more. When game play begins, I just need one or two: BMR and maybe AT2.
What four books were you thinking of would be needed to play CBT in the MWDA setting?
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Cray
01/23/04 12:59 PM
147.160.1.5
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This comment on Scenario packs was just posted on www.classicbattletech.com 's Ask the Writer forum:
Quote:
Re: To Those Who Write the Scenario Packs
[re: Sarge]
I serioiusly doubt we'll ever do a conventional scenario pack again - they just don't sell, especially when compared to the other products we put out.
But, yeah, that could be an interesting idea to do at a con sometime.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chris "Bones" Trossen
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Gangrene
01/23/04 09:35 PM
24.6.228.14
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Quote:
Well, yeah. That's what you need to get started: fluff to pick factions, set up a campaign, and fight. After that, you just need CBT rules. There's no conversions involved.
Yup, there's not much required. I am not sure what Karagin has in mind for them to make. Really, you don't even need much fluff. A couple of snibbets like what was in the Btech v2 manual would do.
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I'm not sure I follow. Do you mean use CBT minis in a Clicktech game, or use CBT minis in a CBT game set in the MWDA?
The former. Karagin is right in that all material out that relates the two products promote the purchasing of MWDA minis over Battletech minis. After all, you don't see any conversions for CBT mechs into DA mechs.
Gangrene
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Cray
01/23/04 10:31 PM
24.27.227.23
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Quote:
The former. Karagin is right in that all material out that relates the two products promote the purchasing of MWDA minis over Battletech minis. After all, you don't see any conversions for CBT mechs into DA mechs.
Yabbut...would you want to?
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Gangrene
01/23/04 11:04 PM
24.6.228.14
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Me? No. Others? Maybe.
Gangrene
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Karagin
01/25/04 11:45 AM
195.238.39.137
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As I said the last time this came up that is a load of BS. If that was true then there would be NO Canned D&D scenario books and adventures and the same would hold true for games like Hackmaster and such. So once again FP and WK have either mistaked one market area for the whole of the BT community or they saw one scenario books sales be lower then they wanted and thus up comes the idea that these books don't sell. What's next? Novels don't sell? Oh wait they already did that to BT.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
01/25/04 11:58 AM
195.238.39.137
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Okay here Cray you are incorrect. Comstar had mech factories. They made mechs. Simplely read the ComStar Sourcebook, yes I know the older ones are so full of Errors and all, that is if you buy into Nystul's comments and all that. In that book it clearly states that Terra was still capable of making mechs and ComStar did have an army to support. So the idea that they didn't have an industrail base is pure BS.
Given that I am in a postion to see HOW a full scale logistical operation works, there is NO WAY that WoB could keep all of the levels of their UBER-ARMY secrete. Paper trails would show up as would questions about why 300 medium lasers where order but never arrived etc...sorry but on this one both FASA and now WK and FP have really dropped the ball and never got it back.
I can't wait to see what load of crap they spin to cover this one...right now the cost alone, again based of printed and canon info, of a single mech lance is a lot and when you get into keeping one up and running you are looking at lots of money, and that is for someone who isn't trying to hide things.
So this is one more strike against the Jihad and the MWDA setting.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
01/25/04 12:04 PM
195.238.39.137
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The four books you mentioned is what I am refering to. All one should need to play a BT game is the BMR-R. Everything else is footnotes or simple notes nothing more.
It may not be hard to do a scenario up from the MWDA text but again given that some of the events are written into happening a certain way it will still be hard to recreate via CBT. Like the WMDs and such.
IF I get the Jihad books then it will ONLY to be show support for CBT and that alone. I will not support BT once it ends up reaching the MWDA time line and given that no one in my group has any disere to play MWDA in any setting we won't be playing canon BT any more and given that we have our own BT universe to play in, the lose isn't that big of a deal for us. What is a lose is the end of a classic game like BT and it's end as a toy-collecting childs game that can be found at uber-markets like Meijers and such is really sad.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
01/25/04 12:58 PM
68.200.106.169
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Quote:
Okay here Cray you are incorrect. Comstar had mech factories. They made mechs. Simplely read the ComStar Sourcebook
Karagin, you misread me. I did not say, "Comstar never had mech factories." I'm well aware Comstar had mech factories on Terra. After all, WoB builds its mechs in those former Comstar factories.
Quote:
Paper trails would show up as would questions about why 300 medium lasers where order but never arrived etc...
First, WoB got about half the Comguards. They simply defected from Comstar to WoB. That "secret" Army was well known to everyone and their mother. After all, WoB conquered Terra with it (and with other defectors in Comstar ranks, like those on Terra).
Second, it was well known WoB had Terra. Comstar knew all the mech factories on Terra. Later, it was well known that WoB took the Titan Shipyards (again, with insiders in Comstar ranks at the shipyards). Comstar knew what those were capable of, too.
Third, once in possession of Terra, WoB did not need to be ultra-secret about its construction of an army, because so few people were allowed to visit Terra, and because interstellar communications are not as open or high bandwidth as those of modern Earth. Terra wasn't open and easily accessible like borders are today. Jumpship visits are few and easily tracked, unlike millions of annual ground and air border crossings today. Communications only leave through the bottlenecks of HPGs rather than being broadcast all over the planet.
Fourth, WoB didn't need to make military arms shipments go missing. It had Terra. As you pointed out, that had a lot of military factories. Reading the TRs, they even have some of the original Mackie factories on Terra.
Fifth, WoB didn't do a perfect job of hiding its paper trails off Terra. It was found out in the FWL, for example.
Sixth, WoB did not have a BIG military by the time it kicked off the Jihad. It relied on rebellion and wars between neighbors, and WMDs.
But, why do you think everyone would watch WoB waiting for a big Jihad? WoB was attracting a lot of the peaceful mystics from Comstar who were disenfranchised by Comstar's secularism. There weren't fatwa's flying around left and right in WoB, demanding blood of the unbelievers. Sure, it's prudent to keep an eye on them, but they weren't as dangerous as, say, the Clans. WoB's building a military? Ok, that's nice.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Edited by Cray (01/25/04 01:10 PM)
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Cray
01/25/04 01:00 PM
68.200.106.169
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Quote:
As I said the last time this came up that is a load of BS.
I will be happy to believe you if you present the FASA/Fanpro sales information backing that statement. A comparison of BT to DnD is not adequate "proof."
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Cray
01/25/04 01:36 PM
68.200.106.169
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Quote:
I will not support BT once it ends up reaching the MWDA time line and given that no one in my group has any disere to play MWDA in any setting we won't be playing canon BT any more and given that we have our own BT universe to play in, the lose isn't that big of a deal for us.
Fair 'nuff. You see how many alternate timelines I churn out. Sometimes I'd like to crank the clock back to the 3030s and have that decade turn out "right."
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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tgsofgc
01/25/04 03:34 PM
67.4.201.251
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Quote:
But, why do you think everyone would watch WoB waiting for a big Jihad? WoB was attracting a lot of the peaceful mystics from Comstar who were disenfranchised by Comstar's secularism. There weren't fatwa's flying around left and right in WoB, demanding blood of the unbelievers. Sure, it's prudent to keep an eye on them, but they weren't as dangerous as, say, the Clans. WoB's building a military? Ok, that's nice.
Of course by now you'd think that everyone in the Inner Sphere would kno0w to never trust anyone who controls Terra.
I find that 'pinpoint' accuracy during a bombing run increases proportionally with the amount of munitions used.
-Commander Nathaniel Klepper,
Avanti's Angels, 3058
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Cray
01/25/04 03:52 PM
68.200.106.169
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Quote:
Of course by now you'd think that everyone in the Inner Sphere would kno0w to never trust anyone who controls Terra.
ROFL!
You might have a point there.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
01/26/04 02:44 AM
62.128.179.3
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First WoB goes from being a splinter group to this mega player in the IS with Uber abilites in a matter of a few years, sorry but that is not likely even in the BT universe.
Second, their army was NO WHERE near the size of the ComGuard even with the Defections. I can't find anything in the ComStar Sourcebook about half of the Guard going over to the WoB...could please give a page number that shows this and the FM on the WoB doesn't show this either so where is this info of them getting half of the Guard to be found?
Third, having taken Terra through decpection and use of tratiors and spies is one thing, taking it via a direct military assault is another. WoB didn't the forces to take on Terra's defenses so they used other methods.
Fourth, having Terra gives them roughly a dozen or so factories to make weapons and mechs. Fine add that to their ONE planet in FWL and you really don't have the setup for much of anything. But yet we are to believe that because they where skimming monies and such from the FWL that they have the man power to pilot the mechs they bought or made and they have the money to feed, house, transport and train these same troops. Once again this part the actually cost is forgetten about BTPTB and thus makes hash of all of the rest of the uber-army of WoB.
Fifth, again how can a group that was up until the TPTB changed things, fighting among themselves manage to pull of anything with out some one selling the other out to gain a better footing for their faction? I find it very funny that this part was forgotten about by TPTB.
Why would any one be watching the WoB...let's see MI units in all of the Houses would be watch everyone and everything. Someone would have seen the signs and given that even Victor and his buddies watched them via his role as PM, I find it hard to believe that all of his spies and such would miss things like this.
Fifth, have you actually looked at the cost of a mech? We are to believe that WoB bought first run productions of a lot of the refits done to the Unseen in lance and company size elements and yet could keep doing this while again feeding and training and transporting both the mechs and the men needed to pilot and fix these machines from one end of the IS to the other. Sorry but that's a tad hard to believe and thus shoots another hole into this plot line.
Overall the idea of WoB going from a splinter group to IS power house is not well thought out and seems to be rushed to the point that one is left wondering why and then seeing the MWDA setting we get the why, but it still leaves the lack of credibitly and believabilty sitting in the dust.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
01/26/04 02:51 AM
62.128.179.3
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Quote:
Quote:
As I said the last time this came up that is a load of BS.
I will be happy to believe you if you present the FASA/Fanpro sales information backing that statement. A comparison of BT to DnD is not adequate "proof."
Not adequate? BOTH games used scenario packs to give the players the chance to enter act in the offical settings for the respective games. IF the comment that scenario packs don't sell is true then explain HOW other compaines can keep putting them out and they seem to have no worries about their abilty to sell?
Again I ask you, what market figures did FASA look at (and now Wk/FP) to get their idea that they don't sell? Every hobby shop i have been in Michigan either sold out of ALL BT material with in a week of it hitting the shelves and that is also with FASA's and FP's know lateness and delays. So again could you please find out where they came up with the thinking that these don't sell.
I own every single scenario book out there for BT and have made the pains to get a couple that I missed when money was tight back in the late 80s, and given that just about everyone I know who plays BT has all of the scenario books I find the comment that they dont sell to be a very weak one to go on. If that was the case, then cassette tapes wouldn't still be around given the popularity of CDs.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Nightward
01/26/04 03:52 AM
203.134.46.193
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We know you are passionate about the game of BattleTech. We also know that you dislike MW: DA.
However, the way you have conducted your side of the "debate" - by initiating personal attacks (including calling other posters here "liars") and posting what can only be described as flames is simply unnacceptable.
Your viewpoint is welcome. Your continued lack of regard for your fellow posters is not.
I have contacted Slayer to watch this thread.
If you wish to continue the debate, please do so with proper respect to your fellow posters and to the rules of the board.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Cray
01/26/04 06:23 AM
68.200.106.169
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Quote:
However, the way you have conducted your side of the "debate" - by initiating personal attacks (including calling other posters here "liars") and posting what can only be described as flames is simply unnacceptable.
To be fair, are you sure that wasn't me? I did say he was lying at points. I haven't read Karagin's most recent posts, but he was doing pretty well the past few days; I erred earlier.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Cray
01/26/04 06:31 AM
68.200.106.169
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Comparing BT to DnD doesn't work - different game cultures.
Quote:
Again I ask you, what market figures did FASA look at (and now Wk/FP) to get their idea that they don't sell?
I would guess the total numbers of books sold vs. the total number printed, or something similar.
I would also guess Chris Trossen has access to such numbers, while you and I do not. Or do you, in fact, have access to profit/loss and published/sold numbers on BT products straight from FanPro/FASA? A sample from a few game stores and personal experience doesn't count.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
01/26/04 08:52 AM
195.238.39.137
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Quote:
We know you are passionate about the game of BattleTech. We also know that you dislike MW: DA.
However, the way you have conducted your side of the "debate" - by initiating personal attacks (including calling other posters here "liars") and posting what can only be described as flames is simply unnacceptable.
Your viewpoint is welcome. Your continued lack of regard for your fellow posters is not.
I have contacted Slayer to watch this thread.
If you wish to continue the debate, please do so with proper respect to your fellow posters and to the rules of the board.
Exuse me? Pleae show me where I called anyone a liar or attacked anyone. I have asked Cray give more info on his side of the debate and while I have sounded a tad or two on the push to my point across I don't recall attacking anyone or name calling or even insulting.
So could you please show me where I have done this so I can look back at it and see said actions. And as Cray said are you not confusing me for him on this one?
Last I looked Cray and I where debating Scenario packs and their ability to sell or not sell. So far we are talking with nothing more then normal tones as far as I can see. I don't see anything even close to what has gone on before between folks around here. I think prehaps you may have jumped the gun a tad bit?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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