Newb question: hex based battletech game?

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Phantom_Limbs
12/14/03 01:25 PM
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im not really into computer games but i was wondering if there was a battletech game available that plays like the boardgame? pretty low tech stuff but would be pretty fun when you dont have anyone to duel against.
ive played other mech games, which were cool, but if i had to decide between a shooter and a hexbased strategy game, id pick the latter.
so are there any out there??
Iceman
12/14/03 03:07 PM
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Check out Titans of Steel: Warring Suns.

http://www.matrixgames.com/Games/TitansofSteel2/

http://www.titansofsteel.de/

There are a few threads about it in this forum with more info, called Titans of Steel and Mech Force.
Phantom_Limbs
12/14/03 05:23 PM
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looks pretty slick. have you played it? how similar are the rules to CBT?
Phantom_Limbs
12/15/03 06:19 PM
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just found the link to MegaMek. its nice that i plays by Battletech rules, not a variation of them like Titans of Steel. i havent downloaded it yet, been trying to gather more info on it. their website is cluttered and doesnt offer much info (for some reason, the newbie intro to it was not downloading properly). does anyone here play it? id like to know more.
tgsofgc
12/18/03 12:31 PM
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megamek is big over at battletechuniverse.org you might try over there to find people and or instructions...
I find that 'pinpoint' accuracy during a bombing run increases proportionally with the amount of munitions used.
-Commander Nathaniel Klepper,
Avanti's Angels, 3058
Iceman
12/30/03 07:33 AM
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It's java based, and it's still under development (Open Source). It's a direct conversion of CBT, as opposed to ToS. The ToS "turn" system is very different though, much more complex and interesting. Actually, the whole ToS system is an "improvement" on BT rules, like the skill checks for example. Chassis, weapons, systems, lots of different stuff. There are 3 different modules in ToS, the Factory to build/repair Titans ('Mechs), the HQ to manage your squad and the Battlefield where you duke it out.
MM is plain old CBT, converted to PC. There are some leagues running, campaign mode in MegaMekNet. When dl'ing the files, keep in mind there are 2 different versions, the stable version (supposedly bug free), and the development version (with more stuff, but still in testing). Dev versions are released ~ every 2 weeeks now, stable versions whenever the dev version is considered stable enough.
Hope this helps.
tgsofgc
01/01/04 04:00 AM
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Of course:
1. Mega Mek is free
2. Tos isn't
3. ToS isn't as much like battletech as some have made it out to be. I bought the game with out any demos on the hype and personally don't like it. Namely I spent a lot of money for a lot less than about 2 hrs of time.
4. Iceman is part of ToS, take this for what you want.
Personally I didn't care much for mega mek the last time i played it either, and have basically consigned myself to living with out a electronic version of Battletech.
I find that 'pinpoint' accuracy during a bombing run increases proportionally with the amount of munitions used.
-Commander Nathaniel Klepper,
Avanti's Angels, 3058
Iceman
01/01/04 09:03 AM
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1. Yes, MM is free, and it is also still v0.29, if you know what that means
2. BTW, there is a freeware version of ToS (v1.4), it just doesn't compare to the commercial version. The system is the same though.
3. The ToS system is similar to the Amiga's *MechForce*, which is based on BT. That's what it has "been made out to be" as you call it. It is true. A lot of money?! 2 hrs? Maybe you just don't have what it takes to play it?
4. Yep, I was involved in the process, namely as a beta tester. So I guess I know the game and its potential

Sad for you. Keep waiting then. Maybe you'll get lucky and someone will cater up to your "high standards".
tgsofgc
01/01/04 07:13 PM
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Quote:

2. BTW, there is a freeware version of ToS (v1.4), it just doesn't compare to the commercial version. The system is the same though.



It would have been nice to know this before I purchassed the game.
As to what else you said i'll ignore it, now that I feel I have made my point and allow you to continue hyping the game.
I find that 'pinpoint' accuracy during a bombing run increases proportionally with the amount of munitions used.
-Commander Nathaniel Klepper,
Avanti's Angels, 3058
Iceman
01/02/04 05:32 AM
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It was no secret, it was on the VB site, and on the Matrix downloads page. if you had checked, you'd probably have found it. There is a forum for the game, that's where you'll find info.
There is a LINK right in Sarna's MAIN page, to VB's page, which has a link to the forums and whatnot. Actually, that link has been there for YEARS. Also, widowmaker hyped the game in the Announcements sub-forum, and I didn't see you making a fuss out of it.
BTW, Larkin is working on a demo.

What point? I have both games.
Am I "hyping" ToS? Yep, because it is a great game. Is there anything wrong with me hyping it? Do you have a problem with it?
Oh, and thank you for "allowing" me to carry on. Erm, master, I guess?! Heh.
Diablo
01/03/04 12:42 AM
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I've played both. TOS is a great game to play. but as everyone know, it doesn't follow Btech. MegaMek, as unstable as it can be, is Btech and is good for playing Btech. I play TOS when I bored cuz the AI's half decent. I play MegaMek when me and my distant friends want to play Btech. simple as that. I'd recomend having both for either cases.
"whats that bluish fuzzy thing on your head?"
-Luciphear to Talis, just before he exploded.

www.geocitis.com/luciph34r
tgsofgc
01/03/04 02:09 AM
67.4.193.190

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If you read the forumes here you will notice it was your and widowmakers hype that got me to buy the game. See the reply where was that site again, or something like that. I am not going to go revie topics long dead to say, I bought it, not impressed.
I find that 'pinpoint' accuracy during a bombing run increases proportionally with the amount of munitions used.
-Commander Nathaniel Klepper,
Avanti's Angels, 3058
tgsofgc
01/03/04 02:11 AM
67.4.193.190

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Good recommendation, very fair and to the point.
I find that 'pinpoint' accuracy during a bombing run increases proportionally with the amount of munitions used.
-Commander Nathaniel Klepper,
Avanti's Angels, 3058
Iceman
01/03/04 05:46 AM
217.129.243.173

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*We* got you to buy it?! C'mon, you gotta do better than that. Nobody twisted your arm. I informed. Widowmaker corroborated. It was *your* task to investigate if it was your kind of game. Don't make excuses.
And yes, you've made your point pretty clearly already. *You* don't like it. Topic closed?
MaddogDCD
01/03/04 10:02 PM
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In my opinion... MegaMek is as close to CBT as there is, right now. Titans of Steel is what CBT should be. I love the game and it causes me to lose sleep. I bought it online for $25, which included two-day shipping. Even if the game had sucked, I could have made a worse investment. My squad currently has about 40-some missions under its belt, with 30 of them being duels and 10 being campaigns.

Numerous CBT rules that I dislike are fixed in TOS, more varying weapons, less munchy weapons, and the weapons balance out. The MM AI is flat out dumb. How many times have you had to chase the AI around and around and around a forest because he wouldn't engage? I really haven't seen too many numbskull actions from the TOS AI. I like the campaign feature, though, it sucks when your leader dies after a Titan decapitation. But that's part of being in a campaign.

I like how TOS has more detail; separate skills for cannon, energy, etc. while CBT only has one gunnery skill. But that's the advantage of a computer game over a pen and paper game. Damn, I'd hate having to play TOS with pen and paper!

I have found the game easy to use and understand, but maybe that's because it's so similiar to the Amiga MechForce.


Iceman
01/04/04 06:19 AM
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This is precisely what I was trying to say when I said the system is more complex and interesting. I didn't want to go around and "hyper"-hype it not to get "attacked" for doing so. Seems it was fruitless...
A lot of effort has been put into the game to make it very deep, detailed and balanced. Yep, computer versions do have some advantages over pen&paper versions.
tgsofgc
01/04/04 04:27 PM
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Iceman you are a very aggressive person. I simply said some of the hype mislead me and that you may not be the most impartial judge of the two games. I didn't attack you, I pointed out your connection with the game that people may not know if they are new to the board. Of your 32 posts on this board how many have to deal with ToS? I have no problem with people liking the game, but I don't rely on people involved in the creation of a game to provide fair reviews/recommendations. If you really want this topic to drop simply stop responding. You have in the last two posts put forth aggressive, and this is the last word comments.
I find that 'pinpoint' accuracy during a bombing run increases proportionally with the amount of munitions used.
-Commander Nathaniel Klepper,
Avanti's Angels, 3058
Iceman
01/04/04 06:15 PM
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Hmm, excuse me, but what do you care about what I post or not? Did I post in the wrong place? I don't think so. So I really don't understand what your problem is.
Iceman
01/05/04 07:15 AM
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Here's another one. Sadly, it's in german.
It's called BattleMech 3D, and it's been released quite recently. Haven't tried it yet.
http://www.free.pages.at/schroedt/
It is hardcore BT, and I'm not in any way related to this project, BTW.
Lone_Wolf_Radick
06/22/04 05:55 PM
65.1.53.170

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So how closely does MM follow CBT? and what size is the download? At the risk of fanning the flames of a dead firewar, I simply wish to know... The area I live in now is nearly devoid of people having the classic board game, or even of people wishing to PBEM. I've found a few willing to "twitch all night" to MW4, but as you true fans know, the replay value is limited at best... In the interest of fairness, I'm going to research this TOS as well, and attempt to formulate my own opinion. I do thank you all for informing, this sounds like just the thing to cure my urge for some board game action when my favorite dueling partners live miles away.
Bansee
06/22/04 06:40 PM
64.12.116.210

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It would also be great for calculating missile hits; ever play against a guy with SRM Carriers? Both the rolls and the damage suck.
Gangrene
06/24/04 01:07 AM
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There is Megamek and Titans of Steel. I would have to recommend Titans of Steel over Megamek because it is fully supported and is a completely independent program. For Megamek you have to have some Java programs installed, and last time I checked making a single player game was a hassle. Titans of Steel has its own problems, but for $10 its a decent investment.
Gangrene


Edited by Gangrene (06/24/04 01:15 AM)
Gangrene
06/26/04 08:48 PM
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Scratch what I said and get Megamek. After spending more time with Titans of Steel I am convinced the acronym should be changed from ToS to POS. When I last posted I figured that my poor results were simply my lack of understanding the game. Now I know better. Well, at least my CD will make a nice coaster.

Here is an accurate review of the game I found online.

http://www.strategy-gaming.com/reviews/titans_of_steel/index.shtml
Gangrene
tgsofgc
06/26/04 11:04 PM
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Sums up most of what i felt a while back, TOS remains one of the few computer games I actually regret buying.... though since joining a campaign i can now recommend megamech at least as a basic peer to peer game.
I find that 'pinpoint' accuracy during a bombing run increases proportionally with the amount of munitions used.
-Commander Nathaniel Klepper,
Avanti's Angels, 3058
Gangrene
06/26/04 11:17 PM
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The sad part is that the problems would not be hard to fix. All they would have to do is let players start out in better positions in terms of skill and money, and decrease the to-hit penalties in the game. Heck, they could just remove the "special" from the special squads and let players "cheat" to their satisfaction without penalizing them. Oh, and let players quit from a game without being penalized. The game designers need to remember that making players jump through hoops is secondary to entertainment value.
Gangrene
Iceman
06/27/04 12:11 PM
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I could of course point you to at least half a dozen reviews where ToS scores 79+%.
I guess accuracy of a review depends on how well you can play the game, huh?
Gangrene
06/27/04 12:32 PM
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I read those reviews and purchased the game with them in mind. However, after rereading those reviews I have to wonder if the people who wrote them simply played ToS for a few hours and then set it aside without actually trying to get into the game. Even the good reviews posted on the site point out some of the basic flaws, like not being able to quit out of battles unpenalized.
Gangrene
Iceman
06/27/04 12:40 PM
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Entertainment value? Well, that's what the starting skills and money positions in the solitary/campaign/development mode are for, to give you a challenge and hence increase the lifespan of the game. If you'd be given plenty of money and high skills, it'd just be another 20 hour game.
If you do not want to bother with money and low skills, then you have special squads and/or hotseat/random mode.
BTW, patch 1.2 will allow you to start as green rank instead of rookie, to make it easier on n00bs.
As for "cheating" and savegames, you *can* do it, just not directly in the game. Some game designers still believe in playing games without cheating, go figure ;-)
If you can't hit the broad side of a barn while at rookie rank, there's nothing you can't hit when promoted to the top ranks. You'll just have to endure those first few battle - n00bs have actually managed it. It's also part of the story for the game - you're starting your own unit, merc or otherwise, and finances are essential, just like jock development.
The game does have a steep learning curve, but once it grows on you...
Iceman
06/27/04 12:48 PM
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Well, you could say the same about the "bad" reviews. Even more so, as if you read them, and you know the game, you can see the people that wrote them know very little about it. ;-)
Like I said in another post, you can "cheat" your way out of a battle. And you always have the "right" way to do it, like ejecting or fleeing the battle (where you keep your titans but just won't get paid).
We're talking campaign mode here. Is random mode that different from MM? In this respect you're discussing, as being a flaw in ToS.
BTW, you can save a battle and reload at any time, as long as the battle hasn't been finished. Just don't let the battle end, and you'll be alright.
Gangrene
06/27/04 12:56 PM
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Oh no, don't call me a n00b! R u so L337?

Quote:

Entertainment value?




Yeah, its the thing defined by the user, not the designer.

Quote:

If you'd be given plenty of money and high skills, it'd just be another 20 hour game.




ToS won't even be a 10 hour game for most people, after they realize its crap.

Quote:

As for "cheating" and savegames, you *can* do it, just not directly in the game. Some game designers still believe in playing games without cheating, go figure ;-)




And some game designers make games that are fun without cheating, go figure.

Quote:

You'll just have to endure those first few battle




Do you realize what you just wrote down? You're right, the game is something to endure, not enjoy.
Gangrene


Edited by Gangrene (06/27/04 12:57 PM)
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