mattbuck
Eeyore
Reged: 02/13/04
Posts: 2853
Loc: UK
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Reevalutaing Newbie Island
#146002 - 04/11/07 06:50 AM (81.79.13.186)
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I an concerned to say that the Newbie Island experiment is a washout. The idea, I believe, was to give newbies a safe place to start up. However, all it allows is for a huge concentration of low-level raiders and for newbies to be wiped out before they`ve even started learning Nev. Then they get kicked off the island, lose months of work and infra, all their parts, to be left in a single zone, all their units mobilised because of SOI and not a damn clue what just happened.Under the old system, newbies were put randomly about Nev. They spoke to their neighbours and made friends from it. The number of players who bother to stay is decreasing dramatically. There was a time when there wasn`t a moment`s peace in neveron_newbies. Now I`m lucky to see one newbie per week. Heck, per month even. Newbie island has failed. It was a nice idea, but it didn`t work. Remove it again.
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Haha, you people think admins still look at these forums.
Visit the Platonian blog!
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Toontje
Colonel
Reged: 01/18/04
Posts: 2578
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Re: Reevalutaing Newbie Island
[Re: mattbuck]
#146003 - 04/11/07 07:02 AM (131.155.105.212)
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Not remove it. Make logins be unable to have both noob island and non-noob island empires. Noob raiding is ok, as long as it is not experienced players doing so. At the same time, discard multiple logins for single players.
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Rather to blow up, then.
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sdog
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 1787
Loc: europe
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Re: Reevalutaing Newbie Island
[Re: Toontje]
#146005 - 04/11/07 07:46 AM (139.174.165.124)
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discarding mulitple logins will cause a lot more additional trouble. Empires often interfere if they're on the same login, but loged in in different browser instances.
Opening empire A in one browser instance and after that opening empire B in another one, while both are on the same login, will often cause the instance of empire A to display data of empire B, when it is refreshed.
loging out of one empire and into another one is typicaly not feasible, as often time critical things have to be done in every empire. (like fighting in one empire, ordering repair parts in another one, checking faction log in a third one, having arena in the 4th one.
i know hardly any players who actually consolidated several empires to one login, due to the interferences. typicaly the players i know keep several logins for several empires.
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I realised soon that the fun part of playing a military game is that we have lots of lifes and in the end knowone dies, ...
- Skaven, ArmA modding community
Edited by sdog (04/11/07 07:52 AM)
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Katrar
Captain
Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 871
Loc: Seattle, WA USA, Terra
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Re: Reevalutaing Newbie Island
[Re: sdog]
#146013 - 04/11/07 09:03 AM (69.178.97.208)
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I tend to agree with mattbuck. The most important friendships I made early in my time on Neveron were made with my neighbors as a noob. These friendships were crucial in getting me to stay, and in fact I am fairly confident that if something like "noob island" had been around when I first joined in 2001, I would not be here today. I would not have been here many months past my point of joining at all.
Noob island, imo, while one of Neveron's more noble attempts... has been one of its more serious and consequential failures.
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Harbingers of Chaos
"Come war with us!"
-links-
The HoC Archive
And remember, Rick Astley will NEVER: 1. Give you up 2. Let you down 3. Run around 4. Desert you 5. Make you cry 6. Say goodbye 7. Tell a lie 8. Hurt you
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sdog
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 1787
Loc: europe
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A Sandbox, an alternative to noob island
[Re: Katrar]
#146015 - 04/11/07 09:50 AM (139.174.165.124)
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make a sandbox, new player can start an empire in it. The sandbox is not a part of real neveron, and does not interface with it.
They have plenty more starting money, a fixed price mech and vehicle market with only a few mech and veh models. Research and income speed is greatly boosted, about 100 times normal. Empires should be able to quickly grow to about lvl3 but are caped at 4. After 50 RL days the empires get deleted. NO DP options in sandbox.
By being succesfull the noobs should be able to improve their starting position on real neveron. Base it on infra won, or ranking in wars. They could get up to 50M starting money, or for very good research 1 to 10 TP.
Another important part, empires in Sandbox and NOOB faction get another COM tab: Recruiting. Factionleaders of normal nev can post recruiting adverts there. A link in those adverts automaticaly creates a DR with the noob empire.
ps.: If noobie island goes without replacement, empires less than 6 months old must NOT be displayed on the unfactioned empire list!
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I realised soon that the fun part of playing a military game is that we have lots of lifes and in the end knowone dies, ...
- Skaven, ArmA modding community
Edited by sdog (04/11/07 09:52 AM)
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Katrar
Captain
Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 871
Loc: Seattle, WA USA, Terra
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Re: A Sandbox, an alternative to noob island
[Re: sdog]
#146018 - 04/11/07 10:37 AM (69.178.97.208)
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Quik-n-Eazy 5 Step Program for Nev Success:
1. Remove noob island, let noobs populate the map. The reasons why are well known and argued.
2. Remove or restructure the unfactioned empire list, which is NOTHING more than a road map to carnage. Noobs deserve to be sheltered more than raiders deserve easy scraps.
3. Remove fwar. It has done nothing for neveron except drive people away. War was fine before fwar. Fwar had nothing to do with making neveron a better experience for you and me. It had everything to do with nevstaff wanting to decimate big empires and factions. Let factions be the social and organizational tool they were originally intended to be. Not UFC cage fight arenas.
4. Let players dictate when war ends, and how. This is critical. There is no reason we should be required by game code to destroy everyone we fight. Let politics back in to the game.
5. reduce skillups. If they aren't ever going to be removed, at least make them less of a pain in the ass. Skillups at the rate we are experiencing them are not ideal, and are not good for the game.
Voila...
Better game for you. Better game for me. Better game for noobs. And Wayward won't have to take a third job to pay for our bandwidth.
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Harbingers of Chaos
"Come war with us!"
-links-
The HoC Archive
And remember, Rick Astley will NEVER: 1. Give you up 2. Let you down 3. Run around 4. Desert you 5. Make you cry 6. Say goodbye 7. Tell a lie 8. Hurt you
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Arkidda
Lieutenant
Reged: 01/02/05
Posts: 443
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Re: A Sandbox, an alternative to noob island
[Re: Katrar]
#146019 - 04/11/07 11:13 AM (72.254.196.30)
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Just get rid of the skill degregation all together. Not all of us can War on a weekly basis. Or daily basis. Keep the way skilldowns are working, and keep the skillups from decomms, scraps, switching to a new mech, etc... but no more of this .. it's been a game month, time to see if your units skillup. Just cut it out all all together.
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Killing means you never have to say your sorry.
"We have a long road ahead of us." - "Let's litter it with bodies."
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mattbuck
Eeyore
Reged: 02/13/04
Posts: 2853
Loc: UK
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Re: A Sandbox, an alternative to noob island
[Re: Arkidda]
#146021 - 04/11/07 01:13 PM (81.79.13.186)
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I concur. With the new terrain, great skills won't help so much anyway, so there's no reason to remove them. Removing skillups would please lots of people, thus improving the admins' image, and let Nev start to be a game about empire building again.
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Haha, you people think admins still look at these forums.
Visit the Platonian blog!
Edited by mattbuck (04/11/07 01:15 PM)
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Toontje
Colonel
Reged: 01/18/04
Posts: 2578
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Re: A Sandbox, an alternative to noob island
[Re: mattbuck]
#146022 - 04/11/07 01:36 PM (88.159.68.111)
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would make the resurrect option more viable again.
Reduce, I say ok, completely remove is not nescecary imo. There have been enough training improvements to make managing training possible at higher levels.
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Rather to blow up, then.
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Nimon
Captain
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 819
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Re: A Sandbox, an alternative to noob island
[Re: Katrar]
#146026 - 04/11/07 01:49 PM (70.248.237.32)
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I think Noob island should be for noobs. If you have more than one empire login your not allowed on noob island (i.e. the way it use to be in the harsh enviorment of nev). Get a decent sized producint empire that will be FL for the noob faction and keep stocked repair bays and can create vehicles (though how to keep this empire from the ravages of the rest of nev I can not say).
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Pippy
Newbie
Reged: 01/30/07
Posts: 14
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Re: A Sandbox, an alternative to noob island
[Re: Nimon]
#146027 - 04/11/07 02:52 PM (210.15.225.130)
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Perhaps Wayward can take a leaf out of Invasion3042 here, and develop a strategy for new players like they did?
The noob islands goals are great IMHO, just let down in practise.
Lets not try fix the symptoms of the problem but address the root issue as mattbuck suggested.
Pippy
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Eddey
Sergeant
Reged: 03/06/06
Posts: 195
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Re: A Sandbox, an alternative to noob island
[Re: Pippy]
#146031 - 04/11/07 04:52 PM (64.59.144.87)
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Well what how many noobs are really staying in Neveron realistically 1, 2 maybe perhaps 3 if its a good month... That is not a good thing back when i joined the ativeX control was just about to be implemented, player logins were 4431 or slightly higher.... Todays logins are a far cry from that.... They were hovering around the 900-1300 mark not too long ago now some serious change has to happen.....
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May the rng smile on you and smite your enemies... -Commander Tal Gladys
Im currently going to try and make an introductory guide for newbies from lvls 1-7 any suggestions
just pm me thx you xD
http://mattbuck.irongalaxy.com/neveron/faq-irc.html
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Gangrel
Corporal
Reged: 10/31/06
Posts: 96
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Re: A Sandbox, an alternative to noob island
[Re: Eddey]
#146044 - 04/12/07 08:51 AM (80.138.116.7)
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I don't have to care about neveron emps anymore but there must something be done with noob island *if* they want atleast a chance to stop the massive loss in players.
Couple of suggestions:
- Once you have a lvl 3+ Emp you don't start with new empires on it anymore
- No War possible. There is so many building space, you simply don't need to expand
- More rewards for lowbie arenas, maybe even add new quests. They can learn LW a bit that way additionally rewards should be cool. For example: Win a 50,100 and 200 bv quest mission and you get a special newb flea (or other light mech). Now the beginner has his first mech,a bit practice and can play with it. Its a mechgame afterall.
- Remove Unfactioned Empire list
- ACTIVE people need to take care of the newb FL. Disable Money transfers from it along with selling parts etc. Give it a huge stockpile of each part and replenish them if neccessary. Noone could abuse this Emp then, it would take less time to manage and more time to answer questions in newb factionmail.
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cbtgod
Major
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 1395
Loc: IN A BOX UNDER A HOUSE
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Re: A Sandbox, an alternative to noob island
[Re: Gangrel]
#146050 - 04/12/07 11:15 AM (70.126.44.124)
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as arkidda said dump the lame skill ups. to be honest i think if you have older empires you shouldnt be allowed an empire on noob island. noobs have it pretty rough and if we continue to use them as infra farms word will get around and we will have an even smaller player base. they stay on the island due to the minute they lv the get crushed. how about a sign up list of faction leaders like a pool that gets a noob sent to them when they get kicked from the island. this would cost the fl nothing and give some kind of sp bonus for doing this. exp empire super noob hits lvl 4 and is kicked and a random faction is chosen via a sign up list of fl willing to do this. the faction leader gets a 10 sp bonus for 1 month for doing this then it goes away or just like a 10 mil cash bonus or 1-2 dp what ever is fair after all it is random. then put in some tracking way to see if people are just making empires to try to get the free kudos. i mean if only 5 people sign up its a 1 in 5 chance you will get it? although this idea is a little out there its just that an idea save the hate mail. l8r
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yes its a toad, if you didnt know that you dont know anything about cbt
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sdog
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 1787
Loc: europe
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Re: A Sandbox, an alternative to noob island
[Re: cbtgod]
#146051 - 04/12/07 01:16 PM (139.174.165.124)
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Quote:
to be honest i think if you have older empires you shouldnt be allowed an empire on noob island.
the problem is that you have to enforce this rule, if you introduce it. and i don't see a possible way to do it. the activeX control for limiting number of empires is causing enough trouble as it is already. puting rather complex additional code to check if an empire is allowed on noob island will cause more trouble.
A different approach to reduce the slaughter of the noobs would be
limiting the time for empires on noob island. Experienced players won't invest DP or transfer salvage mechs to their noob-island-raider, if that investment is lost after one or two months.
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I realised soon that the fun part of playing a military game is that we have lots of lifes and in the end knowone dies, ...
- Skaven, ArmA modding community
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Wolfshayde
Sergeant Major
Reged: 05/29/06
Posts: 326
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Re: A Sandbox, an alternative to noob island
[Re: sdog]
#146053 - 04/13/07 02:09 AM (24.158.140.19)
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We need the noobs to keep Nev alive and a functional game in the future. It is in Neverons and the player base's best interest to abolish the unfactioned listing.
Those on noob island, will have to learn to seek their purposed conquests by the map or faction under the war tab.
those empires having been disenfranchised and or reduced to ashes, it gives time to find a new home and or rebuild.
Those wishing to be simpy infra farms are easily found when they sell their production, or on the other various lists that are applicable...IE, those hunting them simply need to do their homework.
Those having existing IPS are not noobs, and thus should not be allowed upon NOOB Island, and its a simple exclusion coding.
there will be of course those that simply aquire an additional IP to "bend the rules" IE CHEAT. well, there is not much any can do about those with such a character flaw. However, it will be up to Admins discretion to deal with that or not as they have in the past
*** exclusion clause***
being there are those households with more than one nev player in them, a simple help ticket to admin should allow a new player to aquire access to noob isle.
Wolf
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HLC
Sergeant
Reged: 10/10/05
Posts: 165
Loc: UK
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Re: A Sandbox, an alternative to noob island
[Re: Wolfshayde]
#146054 - 04/13/07 04:53 AM (213.83.117.170)
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Its simple, just remove Noob Island and the unfactioned list, there is no need for either
when I started my first zone was smack bang between 2 high lvl empires so I sent DRs to both asking for advice which was greatly received and helped me stay in the game.
FYI: One of those players was Tigre who has now left but without his knowledge and help I wouldnt have stayed in this game
so stop all this; create a sandox or restrict access or even keep Noob Island and the unfactioned list (as I feed of em but dont want to admit it) - JUST REMOVE THEM they are NOT needed
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OgreMagi
Corporal
Reged: 02/17/06
Posts: 54
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Re: A Sandbox, an alternative to noob island
[Re: HLC]
#146109 - 04/14/07 07:33 AM (72.51.166.102)
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as a pre and post noob island player i can see both sies of the issue.
before noob island as a new player it was very hard to understand the basics of hte game, i didnt understand the basics and the chat room was ans still is very hard to a new guy..
there were raiders and i got hit soon after my empire was formed, i joined a faction but it wasnt a very good one with little training and no prospects i chose to leave
When i heard about the noob island i thought hey i woud give it a second chance and for a while its been nice i have seen a change over the past few months where vetran players have move in creating level 2 raiders overnight. NOw before that it was and still is a nice place to learn, but the abuses on the island are becomming more and more profound. and the problem is the game itself the skilldowns and the mechs reps...
THe skilldowns are what is driving this, in order to prvent the skilldowns they have to LW, but to Lw on the main island is hard to do and harder to skill down units. I teamed up with a raider a month ago, he hit me with a sniper and a grasshopper and i niled him with a Tx l2 and vans i allmost had him but we reached and areeement, i wanted pop, and captured reasearch he wanted rep for his mechs and skill downs. so our 2 empires hit several level 2 and level 3 on the map. To my suprise we began encountering more mechs, and skilled ones at that. i my self was hit by a noob raider who had 2 negative gun mechs.
Now that said most of the raiders are not very effective, and noob island is still a good place to start but since i left the island i have been more than a littel disappointed with nev, at least on the island i could fight a battle evey few days, on the main its less about combat.
I vote to keep the island, maybe soem oversite, some one that can KEEP THE NOOB REPAIR BAY STOCKED AND MANNED WITH TECHS!!!!!
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Mylar
Newbie
Reged: 05/14/07
Posts: 3
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So how do I get off this thing.
[Re: OgreMagi]
#146853 - 05/14/07 11:12 AM (199.217.233.34)
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I'm a noob.
I'm on noob island, I assume. Map zoom level 1 and 3 show my surrounding area, zoom level 4 shows a big color filled world I want to get into.
I'm scouting this game for some friends, if we actually do start playing I'm looking at 5-15 active/casual players, so I need to hurry up and get a start on cutting us out a niche.
If the stuff I do on noob island does not mean anything, I want off. I gather from my reading that the way off noob island is to join a faction, leave the noob faction, or claim a square off the island.
I'm not really intrested in joining an existing faction till I get a better feel for the game and see how we would interact in the confines of it's political base. I cannot seem to find any way to leave the noob faction to get ejected from the island. I've been through the tabs and sub options, I probably am just missing it, help.
I've tried checking the "center view" box and stepping the map on zoom level three a bunch of times, trying to get to the main map, it does not seem to work that way. I cannot seem to zoom into the main map, it always zooms in on noob island as soon as I get out of zoom 4, no matter where i have it centered. I'v tried entering random co-ords and jumping to them hoping to find the mainland shotgun style, I'm still getting the endless green plain... How do I claim land off Noob island if I cannot even look at land off of noob island except from a bird's eye perspective that does not allow selection of zones?
Help would be appreciated, I'm looking to get into the game, not spend a few weeks in a meaningless sandbox. I'm aware that that means I'll probably get my first few empires eaten, thats fine with me. Better to get eaten with the chance to succeed in the open then to survive in a box canyon of "protection".
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sdog
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 1787
Loc: europe
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Re: So how do I get off this thing.
[Re: Mylar]
#146854 - 05/14/07 11:54 AM (139.174.165.206)
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If you don't want to leave noob island by joining a faction, you have to grow out of it. This means your empire has to become a lvl3 (afaik, maybe someone else here can check this).
I'd still advise you to join a faction, you can later leave it. Get to chat to get information about good factions, and find yourself a faction. You'll learn the political situation very quickly there.
Chat is the most important tool in this game, without it you won't be able to do much.
server: irc.afternet.org
rooms: #neveron #neveron_newbies
you can get information about irc here:
http://www.afternet.org
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat
http://mattbuck.irongalaxy.com/neveron/faq-irc.html
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I realised soon that the fun part of playing a military game is that we have lots of lifes and in the end knowone dies, ...
- Skaven, ArmA modding community
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Livewire
Newbie
Reged: 05/14/07
Posts: 21
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Re: So how do I get off this thing.
[Re: sdog]
#146859 - 05/14/07 02:59 PM (66.92.173.59)
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I am a new players as of about 3 or so weeks ago, and have a couple suggestions/comments...
1) I think Noobisland is a great idea, the learning curve in this game is VERY steep, and considering the time it takes to grow an empire, you want someplace a bit safer for people to learn the basics. Add some more basic quests to get people more involved and teach them the basic interface.
2) Need more / better / easier to obtain new player doc's.... I got squashed by an admin yesterday (will go into it in a bit), when I asked why, he said read the updates.... Asking a new player to read and know all the data in every update is, well, kind of crazy... if there is a change or a rule a new player is supposed to know, put it someplace he or she can find it without having to spend hours trolling...
3) Once an empire in Noobland reaches the threshhold size (3 or 4) give them a count down timer to find a faction and or leave Noob island... at the end of the time (give them atleast a week or two, finding a faction takes a while) If they have not left, boot them to a zone. This will give an easy out to the exploiting thats going on/people are complaining about...
4) Streamline the process to leave noobisland when joining a faction... Make it easier for both involved. An exmaple would be, if a faction is involved in a war, make a "queue" you could go into while in Noobisland to show your intent to leave, and when the war ends, instantly move the empire off the Noobisland to a City waiting for them.
On a side note... Yesterday an Admin basically destroyed my empire "just because"... I started the game not to long ago... grew and started to enjoy it, DP'ed a bit to get a starter lance, and onc I hit rank 3 I starter looking for an Faction. I found one, but had to wait to join because they were in a FWar..... However yesterday an Admin BURNED all 10+ of my cities and booted me to the main island... And before I could say "Boo" I was under attack and in a forced surrender, since I only had ONE plot of land, and no cities.. (thanks to the admin). So now, after 3 weeks, I have lost all of my salvage before I could sell it, Lost 1/2 of my Army thanks to an almost instant attack, and have no choice to but to surrender and go futher in debt, because with one plot of land, what else can you do? And all of this is because a Admin thought I was one of the people exploiting the protection of Noobisland.
Point of the rant is, THIS is not a way to get and keep new players, to grow the player base... This kind of this is how you drive players away.... And ironically when I started playing this a couple weeks ago I mentioned it on the 3049 forums and everyone instantly screamed out warning things like this were common, and that Neveron was a waste of time and a source of endless frustration...
Now I have to decide if the frustration of what a Admin did, basically destroying weeks of work is worth overlooking, or quit while I ahead, seeing first had what dozens of others warned me about.
Edited by Livewire (05/14/07 03:02 PM)
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Mylar
Newbie
Reged: 05/14/07
Posts: 3
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Re: So how do I get off this thing.
[Re: Livewire]
#146860 - 05/14/07 03:16 PM (199.217.233.34)
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Wow.
Not gonna bother.
Good luck.
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Livewire
Newbie
Reged: 05/14/07
Posts: 21
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Re: So how do I get off this thing.
[Re: Mylar]
#146861 - 05/14/07 03:53 PM (68.50.28.252)
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Mylar dont give up just because of someone else's experince, but it's something to keep in mind...
For the Admin's.... this is the stuff that is scaring off newer players...
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HLC
Sergeant
Reged: 10/10/05
Posts: 165
Loc: UK
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Mylar - To move off NOOB island without growing or joining a faction
[Re: sdog]
#146866 - 05/15/07 02:12 AM (213.83.117.170)
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I believe you need to burn all your pop and then enter co-ords and reclaim a zone.
Remember that 0, 0 is the centre of the Nev. So best practice would be to input those coords and work out. Also remember that maps 2 and 3 dont work at present.
Just from doing a quick scout of the area try inputting co-ords 1000, -500 and then claim a zone there.
you can then claim zones all around (only take a small chunk for now as land costs will kill you if you claim up to much) and start building (build crappy small cities to start)
If you want to know more PM me here
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Toontje
Colonel
Reged: 01/18/04
Posts: 2578
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Re: Mylar - To move off NOOB island without growing or joining a faction
[Re: HLC]
#146867 - 05/15/07 02:49 AM (131.155.85.174)
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You do not have to burn your buidlings, that's automated once you claim a zone.
I do not recall if any salvage you have taken so far will be moved with you tho.
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Rather to blow up, then.
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sdog
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 1787
Loc: europe
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Re: So how do I get off this thing.
[Re: Livewire]
#146872 - 05/15/07 06:34 AM (139.174.165.206)
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being booted from noob island is an automated process usually. i'd be surprised if the admins actively participated in it.
don't give up cause of this. Noob island is an experiment that went wrong, in the eyes of most veteran players here. There is a bunch of veteran players who started noob hunting on the island, by getting themselves a DP mech and becoming almost invincible for standard noobs. Also the transition to main island doesn't work very well. The best way for noobs is to learn a bit of the basics on noob island, but don't invest to much there. Then get a faction and make the transition with the FL, he'll give you cities and offers protection from the vultures.
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I realised soon that the fun part of playing a military game is that we have lots of lifes and in the end knowone dies, ...
- Skaven, ArmA modding community
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Mylar
Newbie
Reged: 05/14/07
Posts: 3
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Re: So how do I get off this thing.
[Re: sdog]
#146878 - 05/15/07 11:31 AM (199.217.233.34)
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Thanks HLC, you got me off noob Island, I didn't know the center was 0,0 so I was tossing in coords way out no man's land I think.
One quick Question, do you know what the outer limits of the map are, so I can use some guesswork as to a grid on the world map. aka, how big is this place?
I expect I'll get eaten quickly, as my claimed land is in the SOI of a level 13 empire, whatever that means... and I'm fairly close to the starting area you gave me, so I won't be hrd to find for any hunters who happen to read this... But I'm out of the sandbox and hapily waiting to die. 
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sdog
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 1787
Loc: europe
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Re: So how do I get off this thing.
[Re: Mylar]
#146879 - 05/15/07 12:17 PM (139.174.165.206)
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good luck Mylar!
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I realised soon that the fun part of playing a military game is that we have lots of lifes and in the end knowone dies, ...
- Skaven, ArmA modding community
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cbtgod
Major
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 1395
Loc: IN A BOX UNDER A HOUSE
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Re: So how do I get off this thing.
[Re: sdog]
#146895 - 05/16/07 07:21 AM (70.126.44.124)
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only cowards hit noobs oops my bad this is neveron.
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yes its a toad, if you didnt know that you dont know anything about cbt
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SCUM
Sergeant
Reged: 12/05/02
Posts: 159
Loc: I'm somewhere, where I don't k...
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Re: So how do I get off this thing.
[Re: cbtgod]
#146924 - 05/18/07 12:29 PM (207.69.137.14)
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I think I'm gonna start surfing the help files to see what needs updating, (prolly everything >_<), maybe submit some updates if it will help noobs be more informed. BTW, Livewire is in a faction now and hopefully in the process of getting rebuilt.
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Jer 33:3
9th Kyu AOSRKKF
Promo Code:scumsentme
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