FeaR
Corporal
Reged: 03/23/04
Posts: 57
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Does Neveron need a new money sink?
#111794 - 08/06/05 04:20 PM (24.128.59.25)
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By looking at the top 200 empires by wealth it is now at the point where all 200 have over 2 bil or more on hand. Currently 38 empires have over 10 billion on hand, 12 of them having over 20 billion. The big wars needed to use up this cash just arn't happening. As a lvl 11 myself that makes alot of cash i really only spend cash on mechs and buying dp. Even when filling all 5 of my empires dp caps up weekly i still have insane amounts of cash left over. I'm just wondering if anyone else thinks new money sinks are needed in neveron. It could be new kinds of items to waste money on or even new expenses. Maybe when classes are done more people can just start nuking the hell out of each other.
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Markon
Lieutenant
Reged: 02/19/04
Posts: 578
Loc: Australia
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink?
[Re: FeaR]
#111797 - 08/06/05 05:01 PM (144.138.21.86)
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I think this would have to be a balancing act. Extra expenses would only hurt the smaller empires trying to claw themselves up the ladder.
However extra features, like VSTOL units, pirate intellegence buildings, automated Factories, ability to change terrain and the like would appeal to larger empires without impacting on the smaller empires.
As my largest empire is only mid level 7, I myself would not like to see extra expenses. After all, mineral storage costs are an example of a change that only benefits larger empires with the population to use the production in their factories without having to stockpile.
-------------------- Remember that the Ark was built by an amateur, the Titanic was built by a bunch of professionals.
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Aunduril
Sergeant Major
Reged: 01/21/05
Posts: 377
Loc: In my Whammy
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink?
[Re: Markon]
#111800 - 08/06/05 06:48 PM (209.86.37.81)
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*imagines the face of nev with only lv4 and lower empires because everyone else was nuked*
Ahh.
-------------------- "What we do in life echos into eternity. " - Maximus - The Gladiator.
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mattbuck
Eeyore
Reged: 02/13/04
Posts: 2853
Loc: UK
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink?
[Re: Aunduril]
#111811 - 08/07/05 03:21 AM (84.66.115.116)
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I think Nev needs a new kitchen sink.
-------------------- Haha, you people think admins still look at these forums.
Visit the Platonian blog!
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KingDiamond
Lieutenant
Reged: 04/12/03
Posts: 689
Loc: Germany
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink?
[Re: mattbuck]
#111812 - 08/07/05 04:47 AM (128.176.216.116)
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And I was wondering where that smell came from... :-). But seriously now. It's gonna be hard to balance any new money sink, so that it doesn't hurt small empires too much. They really have problems enough to keep their cash together, at least at a decent bv-pop ratio.
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sdog
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 1787
Loc: europe
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink?
[Re: KingDiamond]
#111813 - 08/07/05 04:57 AM (139.174.246.98)
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i always liked the idea of introducing a level depending factor on cost for claiming land, buying non adjacent zones and LC movement. for empires below lvl 4 it is to high, for 5 to 8 the rates at the moment are ok, and for the big empire the costs are neglectable.
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KingDiamond
Lieutenant
Reged: 04/12/03
Posts: 689
Loc: Germany
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink?
[Re: sdog]
#111815 - 08/07/05 05:10 AM (128.176.216.116)
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sounds quite okay. Question is if that'd really affect larger empires very much, as many of them are quite fine with the land they have, and at high level attack costs for bigger cities, you need to raise claiming or LC costs by a really big chunk to reach significant money sinking effects.
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sinsear
Captain
Reged: 07/16/03
Posts: 824
Loc: Australia
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink?
[Re: KingDiamond]
#111816 - 08/07/05 06:43 AM (211.26.123.10)
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easy, have morale bonuses for handing cash out to your faction for faction leaders (but negative morale for buying stuff and recieving money) This can be justified by having the FL empire's populace feel good for helping out allies, and feel crappy when they get charity or have to buy off of other empires. Bring this into effect for all FL's over level 9 or something similiar, and you have a money sharing method. Well, it's the best I could come up with.
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NeverSayNever
Major
Reged: 11/18/02
Posts: 1465
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: FeaR]
#111817 - 08/07/05 08:49 AM (172.178.91.14)
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Quote:
By looking at the top 200 empires by wealth it is now at the point where all 200 have over 2 bil or more on hand. Currently 38 empires have over 10 billion on hand, 12 of them having over 20 billion. The big wars needed to use up this cash just arn't happening. As a lvl 11 myself that makes alot of cash i really only spend cash on mechs and buying dp. Even when filling all 5 of my empires dp caps up weekly i still have insane amounts of cash left over. I'm just wondering if anyone else thinks new money sinks are needed in neveron. It could be new kinds of items to waste money on or even new expenses. Maybe when classes are done more people can just start nuking the hell out of each other.
Wow, really big empires (= like lvl 10+) having too much Nevcash on hand - and no way to spend and or redistribute all the surplus? . 'Poor' suckers! [Hey, just kidding ].
One easy 'fix' one can think off: simply drop even more AI pirates on the really, really rich and really, really big empires - and all the combined additional losses in military hardware, etc. should help to soak up quite a lot of the surplus Nevcash, some minor drawbacks though: even more lag for all of us and of course even less of the affordable, good light and or medium training Mechs at the marketplace, because the really big guys would need even more replacements .
How about a slightly different approach, you know, like new, big and expensive toys for the really big empires?
For example, how about Advanced Technology Complexes (ATCs)? E.g. with say 10 times the research capacity of a TC? - and of course expensive to build and maintain too (= Nevcash sink)?
Or how about extremely efficient Star League era laboratories (DP only special (you know, to help encourage an implementation), and of course extremely expensive to maintain (lots of Nevcash for retooling required)), like specialized labs which could help speed up research within specific subbranches of the reseach tree (e.g. fusion engine tech comes to mind, or how about advanced (= lvl 2 BT weapons) inner sphere weapons labs (IS Gauss Rifle, IS ER-PPC, IS Ultra-AutoCannons, etc.)?
Or ...
... how about extremely advanced Clan Tech era laboratories (of course an expensive DP only special (you know, to help encourage an implementation), and of course extremely expensive to maintain too (lots of Nevcash for retooling required)), like a specialized clantech weapons lab or a specialized clantech fusion engine lab (XL engines)?
Basically the really big empires, like lvl 10+, could spend more DPs on research - you know, either by donating more or by buying up some more DPs with their vast surplus Nevcash reserves -, getting much faster results in return (= bringing back some fun when it comes to the extremely time consuming Mech research projects, like medium or even heavy Mech research).
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archmore
Newbie
Reged: 12/12/01
Posts: 16
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: NeverSayNever]
#111820 - 08/07/05 11:24 AM (4.255.41.176)
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hummmm how about the ability to design new vehicles/mechs?........ 1 + bil to design...... but then they still have to research it
-------------------- Mercs Rule!!!
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SeriyVolk
Sergeant
Reged: 05/25/05
Posts: 114
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: archmore]
#111825 - 08/07/05 01:21 PM (24.214.80.134)
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I like those ideas, NSN :thumbs up:
-------------------- "Unity of purpose and strength of spirit, no task undertaken lightly or left half-done. To these ideals we hold true until we all shall fall."
- Passage 45, Verse 6, Lines 16-18 (Clan Ghost Bear)
Creating a new empire? Use promo code: The Wolf is our guide
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mattbuck
Eeyore
Reged: 02/13/04
Posts: 2853
Loc: UK
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: SeriyVolk]
#111830 - 08/07/05 03:52 PM (84.66.115.116)
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Should cost more to design a mech than 1bil. Designs can be coded, but it costs about $500, which is 1000dp, aka 50bil (the cost of a nuke).
-------------------- Haha, you people think admins still look at these forums.
Visit the Platonian blog!
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Aunduril
Sergeant Major
Reged: 01/21/05
Posts: 377
Loc: In my Whammy
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: mattbuck]
#111834 - 08/07/05 08:22 PM (209.86.36.107)
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I really like your ideas about the facilities NSN. That would be something I would look forward to if and when I get up to that point(I'm working on it)
-------------------- "What we do in life echos into eternity. " - Maximus - The Gladiator.
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mumbles
Sergeant
Reged: 03/06/05
Posts: 147
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink?
[Re: sinsear]
#111838 - 08/07/05 08:43 PM (65.93.48.216)
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Quote:
easy, have morale bonuses for handing cash out to your faction for faction leaders (but negative morale for buying stuff and recieving money) This can be justified by having the FL empire's populace feel good for helping out allies, and feel crappy when they get charity or have to buy off of other empires. Bring this into effect for all FL's over level 9 or something similiar, and you have a money sharing method. Well, it's the best I could come up with.
This doesnt help out perhaps someone doesnt want to recive charaty because of the moral, i dont want to have a negative moral so i can get some cash only to lose it because of moral.
If you want to do some cash spending why dont you allow people to traspher over the limit. Over the limit to 2x $1 for every $2 sent, 2x and above 1$ for every $4 sent.
Edited by mumbles (08/07/05 08:45 PM)
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Toontje
Colonel
Reged: 01/18/04
Posts: 2578
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink?
[Re: mumbles]
#111843 - 08/08/05 02:02 AM (84.24.165.226)
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the money sending already is like that, 1x, 2x, 10x.
If there needs to be a money sink, send it to me. I'll weight it down with some BM and start filling ocean zones.
A new demi-annual nevwar would sink a load of money as well. (from the losing side.)
-------------------- Rather to blow up, then.
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MEX
Sergeant
Reged: 07/18/05
Posts: 124
Loc: g-town, Vienna, Austria, EU.
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: archmore]
#111847 - 08/08/05 03:58 AM (213.143.116.63)
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Quote:
hummmm how about the ability to design new vehicles/mechs?........ 1 + bil to design...... but then they still have to research it
I like this idea, but it should be restricted to vehicles (with less than 20 tons) as own designs for mechs and heavier vehicles should still require DP.
--------------------
Edited by MEX (08/08/05 03:59 AM)
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Kanil
Captain
Reged: 03/13/03
Posts: 1028
Loc: Head Chef, Archon's Kitchen
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: MEX]
#111849 - 08/08/05 04:03 AM (69.171.193.112)
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What's the point of making another crappy redesign of the Jeep? I mean, you can't get much out of 15 tons, and what you can usually already exsists. I suppose this would be used to make some cheap, expendable vehicles, perhaps a new breed of AIV, but otherwise, its a rather pointless suggestion.
-------------------- "The better news is that we are outnumbered, four to one."
- Clanners, and their whacked view of the world.
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MEX
Sergeant
Reged: 07/18/05
Posts: 124
Loc: g-town, Vienna, Austria, EU.
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: Kanil]
#111856 - 08/08/05 04:43 AM (213.143.116.63)
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Dont forget the VTOL scouts like the Ferret, or vehicles with a ECM of 4 or higher to blind the enemy, ... there are many types of vehicles which could change the tactics in Neveron drastically, even if they have less than 20 tons.
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Kanil
Captain
Reged: 03/13/03
Posts: 1028
Loc: Head Chef, Archon's Kitchen
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: MEX]
#111857 - 08/08/05 04:47 AM (69.171.193.112)
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You did not state VTOLs, and as far as I know, they are one of those "back burner" (arm crits, hovers over water) features, they'll get added... later. Want your Scout? Go for a Swiftwind X. Want your ECM? Go for a TWAC.
-------------------- "The better news is that we are outnumbered, four to one."
- Clanners, and their whacked view of the world.
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MEX
Sergeant
Reged: 07/18/05
Posts: 124
Loc: g-town, Vienna, Austria, EU.
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: Kanil]
#111859 - 08/08/05 04:50 AM (213.143.116.63)
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Arent thouse DP only ?
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Kanil
Captain
Reged: 03/13/03
Posts: 1028
Loc: Head Chef, Archon's Kitchen
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: MEX]
#111862 - 08/08/05 04:53 AM (69.171.193.112)
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SFT-XLR are DP only (for now). SFT-X are currently being produced by two empires, and there are some on the market right now. (6.5 mil) TWACs are currently being produced by 13 empires, and there are some on the market right now. (17 mil)
-------------------- "The better news is that we are outnumbered, four to one."
- Clanners, and their whacked view of the world.
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fernando
Corporal
Reged: 12/18/03
Posts: 92
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: Kanil]
#111865 - 08/08/05 05:01 AM (203.26.206.129)
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I agree, some new ideas to blow money is most definitely required. This would also add new FUN features to the game. Earlier, i can recall dueling which cost alot of money to play around with due to the large cost of replacing a mech if u lost etc. was 1 form of draining cash especially from the larger empires as they were the ones that could afford it. Wars were also more popular, which is another money drainer. I like the idea of new building types as a way to drain money, however do not agree wit the moral idea raised. I reckon bring back the old arenas, add some fun little features like betting on FDOW's or something stupid like that, lol.
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MEX
Sergeant
Reged: 07/18/05
Posts: 124
Loc: g-town, Vienna, Austria, EU.
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: fernando]
#111869 - 08/08/05 06:37 AM (213.143.116.63)
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The SFT-X has a ECM of ZERO, which is useless against the ECM of 3 of a Stealth Tower ...
The TWAC-00 TWAC Command Vehicle has a ECM of 6, but at a steep price.
The VNG-A2 Vanguard Medium Tank has a ECM of 4, with ~10 mil per tank it seems a better choice for a Newbie which wants to wage war against other Newbies than the TWAC-00. Especially as it is armed with a AC2 with a range of up to 24.
MfG, MEX
PS: Dont forget: you need ONLY ONE unit with a ECM higher than your enemy to blind him
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Nimon
Captain
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 819
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink?
[Re: Toontje]
#111872 - 08/08/05 07:49 AM (64.95.219.124)
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Well if you want a money sink, have your wonderful politicans spend your money. You will soon find you have none left.
Seriously, if you really think that money sinks are needed (I personally do not think that way because an asset not used is wasted or the other oil field axiom a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow) have corruption be higher for those with a big bank. So the more money you have the more the little politicans are stuffing thier pockets. that way lower bank empires do not have to worry about that stuff and the bigger bank empires still have all thier cash just it does not grow that much faster (unless they get in a war and spend a lot and the accountants watch the pennies more).
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Sesshomeru
Lieutenant
Reged: 11/06/04
Posts: 518
Loc: Michigan,USA
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: MEX]
#111876 - 08/08/05 08:23 AM (67.149.34.124)
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Nope, I know for sure that the TWAC is on the merketplace(look at assault section). I'm pretty sure that the swiftwind-X is also there but am not positive, and am too lazy to look.
PS: Yea just looked on the marketplace adn the Swiftwind-X is on there, Highland Gluckseberg has 2 companies of Swiftwinds out for 6.5 mill a piece.
-------------------- With each kill I grow wiser and with that knowledge I grow stronger.
-Artemis Entreri
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sdog
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 1787
Loc: europe
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ECM and Sensors
[Re: MEX]
#111881 - 08/08/05 09:17 AM (139.174.165.124)
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your sensors need to be more powerfull then the ecm of your opponent. if you want to spot a stealth tower, it is not important how much ECM you got. in low level landwars, ecm is in general not important for the attacker. you have to get into LOS of your enemy anyways, so you will be spoted.
in high lvl LW ECM can be important, if you want to hide a part of your force from IDF towers. but as mechs are more difficult to hide, you'll probably need a raven.
defenders do usualy have more troops in their zones, and they are wider spread, not as close together as attacking forces usually are. for them a high ECM can be quite usefull.
get a SFT-X, (or XLR) if you can not afford a mech with decent sensors. as long the price of a twac seems to expensive for you, you don't need one anyway.
--------------------
I realised soon that the fun part of playing a military game is that we have lots of lifes and in the end knowone dies, ...
- Skaven, ArmA modding community
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MEX
Sergeant
Reged: 07/18/05
Posts: 124
Loc: g-town, Vienna, Austria, EU.
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Re: ECM and Sensors
[Re: sdog]
#111883 - 08/08/05 09:25 AM (213.143.116.63)
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Quote:
your sensors need to be more powerfull then the ecm of your opponent. if you want to spot a stealth tower, it is not important how much ECM you got. in low level landwars, ecm is in general not important for the attacker. you have to get into LOS of your enemy anyways, so you will be spoted.
in high lvl LW ECM can be important, if you want to hide a part of your force from IDF towers. but as mechs are more difficult to hide, you'll probably need a raven.
defenders do usualy have more troops in their zones, and they are wider spread, not as close together as attacking forces usually are. for them a high ECM can be quite usefull.
get a SFT-X, (or XLR) if you can not afford a mech with decent sensors. as long the price of a twac seems to expensive for you, you don't need one anyway.
How about using a single VNG-A2 Vanguard as Lance commander, supported by 3 cheap Scorpions ?
Then each BP can command a VNG-A2 with ECM 4 to hide his lance and order his Scorpions to attack any foe which he sees ...
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sdog
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 1787
Loc: europe
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Re: ECM and Sensors
[Re: MEX]
#111885 - 08/08/05 09:43 AM (139.174.165.124)
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you wont be able to spot any opponents. you need excelent Sensors to spot them without Line Of Sight (LOS). there's also no need for more then one scout vehicle in your attack force, you will stand at the edge of the map, don't move it, and wait until you've spoted the opforce.
non sniper vehicle combat is next to impossible in about 3/4 of neverons zones, the terrain is just to uneven for them to move towards the enemy. use snipers to shell enemy towers and vehicles, and mechs to kill the rest.
i don't see much use for those vanguards, they got 1 point more ECM then a standard stealth tower. but they are medium vehs, so they will be spoted as easily as the stealth tower. the AC2 is next to useless in mountain zones, and the ECM is useless in flat zones.
--------------------
I realised soon that the fun part of playing a military game is that we have lots of lifes and in the end knowone dies, ...
- Skaven, ArmA modding community
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Wraith
Major
Reged: 03/17/03
Posts: 1238
Loc: Wichita, KS, USA
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: mattbuck]
#111893 - 08/08/05 11:10 AM (130.76.96.19)
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New mech designs cost $300, which is 460 DP, which converts to 4.6 billion (1 DP = 10 million according to Randy).
-------------------- -Wraith
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Sintares
Captain
Reged: 07/07/02
Posts: 922
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: Wraith]
#111915 - 08/08/05 05:27 PM (84.68.192.130)
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Having a higher ECM than your opponent does not mean you blind your opponent as such.
ECM simply subtracts from your opponents sensor rolls, but each turn a unit stands still its sensor power increases by one (up to double its base power) .
And if both of you are stationary for a long long time ...see quote below..
So having a good ECM makes it more difficult for him to spot you, but his ECM also makes it more difficult for you to spot him.
Quote:
Increased the maximum benefit of remaining stationary when detecting enemy units. If both you and the enemy are stationary, you may now get up to 4x effective sensor power by remaining stationary for very long periods of time. The maximum benefit begins to take effect after both parties have not moved for a number of turns equal to 6x your base sensor power rating. This extra power does not replace the previous benefit of +1 effective power rating per turn up double your base power rating. That fast sensor improvement still occurs, however there is now additional benefit to remaining still for very long periods of time.
Err, meant this to reply to Mex not Wraith obviously..
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Gravewalker
Corporal
Reged: 04/27/04
Posts: 80
Loc: Ohio, USA
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: MEX]
#111938 - 08/09/05 07:31 AM (66.195.167.5)
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Hmmm, I have the perfect Sink.
"Give to the Noobs Foundation" which will be treated similarly as the UN's "Oil for Food Program" with Iraq.
As Chief Planning Officer of GNF, you may forward any extra moneys. For further information, please PM.
-------------------- Gravewalker
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Whalefsh
Captain
Reged: 01/31/03
Posts: 1128
Loc: Dundee, Scotland
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: Gravewalker]
#111939 - 08/09/05 07:35 AM (134.36.5.218)
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Does that mean you keep all the money while the noobs get poorer?
-------------------- Whalefsh
What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you excercise it?
To whom are you accountable? How do we get rid of you? - Tony Benn
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Someone
Sergeant Major
Reged: 01/05/03
Posts: 389
Loc: Sweden
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: Whalefsh]
#111942 - 08/09/05 12:33 PM (62.20.162.225)
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lol, good one whalefsh.
-------------------- Travel to the end of world and take one footstep into the oblivion and you shall find me there.
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Gravewalker
Corporal
Reged: 04/27/04
Posts: 80
Loc: Ohio, USA
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: Someone]
#111947 - 08/09/05 02:40 PM (66.195.167.5)
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Hehe. Not all. But most.
-------------------- Gravewalker
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Antoni
Sergeant Major
Reged: 04/09/03
Posts: 289
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: Gravewalker]
#111958 - 08/10/05 12:07 AM (170.131.131.254)
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I personally don't think 2 billion dollars is an enormous amount of cash for a level 10+. I mean, look at the mech market, a AWS-Q can go for a good 800 million. When an IMP drops it's about a cool 1 billion. When those large empires get attacked by pirates and they lose 1 or 2 good mechs, it could run them a couple of billion to replace them off the normal market. Hell, replacing a company of assault tanks could run you a billion.
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Klavis
Sergeant
Reged: 04/28/05
Posts: 116
Loc: ohio
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: Antoni]
#111967 - 08/10/05 02:46 AM (198.30.112.4)
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Quote:
I personally don't think 2 billion dollars is an enormous amount of cash for a level 10+. I mean, look at the mech market, a AWS-Q can go for a good 800 million. When an IMP drops it's about a cool 1 billion. When those large empires get attacked by pirates and they lose 1 or 2 good mechs, it could run them a couple of billion to replace them off the normal market. Hell, replacing a company of assault tanks could run you a billion.
True, but they quickly recover any money spent. How much does a level 10+ empire make per nevday? Per real day? Yes, I'd say that they quickly recover any money spent.
So um, how about this? If you are a level 10+, you can get Randy's undivided attention for 30 min if you are willing to part with 2 bilion. LOL! JK...
Food for oil...what about some sort of mentorship program? Not the whole "promo code" idea, but something else, where they "fund" a newbie empire in exchange for certain other "intangibles" such as a slight bonus in their research, or something along those lines that does not in any way directly enhance their income? The noob that is being sponsored would also in turn gain certain bonuses, such as perhaps a small stipend per nevday maybe a slight bonus in their research, or maybe their building crews receive training in how to build infra a little bit more efficiently (bonus on bp). It doesnt have to be that EXACTLY, but you get the general idea i think...
-------------------- Regards,
Klavis
"Those who have crossed
With direct eyes, to death's other kingdom
Remember us - if at all - not as lost
Violent souls, but only
As the hollow men..."
- T.S. Eliot, The Hollow Men
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sdog
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 09/01/03
Posts: 1787
Loc: europe
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: Klavis]
#111969 - 08/10/05 02:57 AM (139.174.246.98)
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i'm all for supporting newbies with money.
my lvl8 empire can receive 250M from other faction leaders. (i have to face it, i'm playing for more then 3 years now, but practicaly, i'm still a newbie [25kish empire ID])
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hobbit
Sergeant
Reged: 01/26/04
Posts: 196
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: sdog]
#112004 - 08/10/05 12:33 PM (134.134.136.2)
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You people that are calling for a money sink for larger empires have no idea how much it costs to war at those levels. That's not even factoring the costs of replacing battalions of vehicles every time pirates hit...
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Klavis
Sergeant
Reged: 04/28/05
Posts: 116
Loc: ohio
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: hobbit]
#112017 - 08/11/05 01:21 AM (198.30.112.4)
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Quote:
You people that are calling for a money sink for larger empires have no idea how much it costs to war at those levels. That's not even factoring the costs of replacing battalions of vehicles every time pirates hit...
actually, i do have a very good idea. I better, or else I need to get rid of my lvl 8.
-------------------- Regards,
Klavis
"Those who have crossed
With direct eyes, to death's other kingdom
Remember us - if at all - not as lost
Violent souls, but only
As the hollow men..."
- T.S. Eliot, The Hollow Men
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Nimon
Captain
Reged: 06/02/03
Posts: 819
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: Klavis]
#112032 - 08/11/05 08:43 AM (64.95.219.124)
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Well my Faction mates have just helped me beat the 527K pirates that hit my empire, now if it was not for those guys being able to keep the pressure on the pirates for the 24 plus hours we took to beat them (if it was me alone it would have easily took a week or more to beat them, and the losses to my defenses would have been much more than what was actually done {one medium mech, about a battalion and a half of tanks, plus loads of stealth towers}) Now before you all say.. "Well level 13 empires have lots of stuff" my defenses in each of my cities is equal to any other level 8 out there (i.e. my 1K cities have as much as the other people with 1K cities) diffrence is, level 8 and 9 empires have 20 groups of pirates drop (fewer groups just mean that each gruop beat makes the threat to your city less). Level 10, 11, 12, and especially 13 have MULTIPLE 1K cities, and with that when pirates drop we have on average 150 groups, each with the ability to take a city (and anyone who has lost a city to pirates knows that pirates plunder, i.e. building destruction, is greater and then you lose more when you retake the city which causes more loss of income to rebuild and the short term loss of those buildings). Killing even 80 of the groups does not reduce the threat of losing a city. And many Larger empires are spread over a larger area so you can not concentrate your counter attack forces on them. The ONLY saving grace is that pirates are on AI MOST of the time (Yes Randy and Co., do pilot from time to time for the pirates) and because of this they have little tactical sense. I personalyl would like to see pirates have huge negative int so they can not lag out phases, vs other peoples empire and such by all means let them lag while on AI, but I can lose several hours (cumulative) as you wait for pirates to move at the end of thier int. If there could be a way to have pirates all have negative int so those phases are sped up that would go a long ways (after all pirates was for killing inactive people from what I rememeber, not kill active people with boredom).
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Tigre
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 02/10/03
Posts: 1795
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink?
[Re: FeaR]
#112049 - 08/11/05 01:50 PM (12.47.79.2)
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Removal of the 175 and 225 maint rates really made this situation worse. with older empires, you have a lot of 0/0/0/0/0 pilots with questionable training levels, so you don't risk 150 or 200, so at 125, your income is higher than you need, undoubtedly.
-------------------- - Tigre
Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est
- Francis Bacon
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Wraith
Major
Reged: 03/17/03
Posts: 1238
Loc: Wichita, KS, USA
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: Nimon]
#112085 - 08/11/05 03:37 PM (24.255.140.173)
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I agree Nimon, my last pirate hit (last weekend) a lot of the times the pirates were getting 15 INT and such...
-------------------- -Wraith
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Tigre
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 02/10/03
Posts: 1795
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: Wraith]
#112109 - 08/12/05 06:08 AM (12.47.79.2)
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but, during pirates, I just move first and let them move. You already know their move will be max speed straight at you, so you can plan, move first, and not worry (until they get close and you are avoiding firing arcs, etc.)
-------------------- - Tigre
Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est
- Francis Bacon
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Whalefsh
Captain
Reged: 01/31/03
Posts: 1128
Loc: Dundee, Scotland
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: Tigre]
#112115 - 08/12/05 07:41 AM (134.36.5.235)
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There is also the rats love for chasing random units. Gotta love facing rat inf when they are chasing a fast mech. Line the LRM mechs up on a ridge and decimate.
-------------------- Whalefsh
What power have you got? Where did you get it from? In whose interests do you excercise it?
To whom are you accountable? How do we get rid of you? - Tony Benn
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Egwene
Sergeant Major
Reged: 08/06/03
Posts: 201
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: Nimon]
#112131 - 08/12/05 02:32 PM (69.244.147.181)
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AMEN MY BROTHER!!!!
lvl 13 pirates suck ass! the lag of them moving and then the HUGE neg. skill they usually have.
I know TTI has had to replace many a battalion of vehs due to pirates, so before you all say the higher levels have it easy, check again!
-------------------- The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides by the inequities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men.
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LiRa
Sergeant Major
Reged: 06/12/03
Posts: 369
Loc: Canada
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: Egwene]
#112215 - 08/14/05 08:45 PM (65.93.94.178)
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You could try researching or warring Fear? Or maybe you could start your own faction. In short, you could do something and that would drain your money.
I'm level 9 and I NEVER have enough money. Not even close.
-------------------- Li
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Tigre
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 02/10/03
Posts: 1795
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: LiRa]
#112229 - 08/15/05 07:47 AM (12.47.79.2)
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Well, there's a difference between a large 11, and a 9, like between a large 6 and a 4. . .
Though FeaR, tell your DP sellers that when you're capped, to call me.
-------------------- - Tigre
Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est
- Francis Bacon
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Yoshikazu
Newbie
Reged: 08/16/05
Posts: 7
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: Tigre]
#112298 - 08/16/05 04:34 PM (67.162.216.231)
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all uber rich empires are encouraged to sink money into the help-a-noob foundation. send all checks payable to the empire "Cybertron" and help feed a hungry war machine.
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Sesshomeru
Lieutenant
Reged: 11/06/04
Posts: 518
Loc: Michigan,USA
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: Yoshikazu]
#112303 - 08/16/05 09:02 PM (67.149.34.124)
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lol, you must be dumb as hell dude. Get ready to for War cause I'm pretty sure Tigre might come after you. He hates ppl who promote their promo coes in public and people such as you.
But seriously don't post your emp name in the forums cauyse that just makes you a target.
-------------------- With each kill I grow wiser and with that knowledge I grow stronger.
-Artemis Entreri
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FeaR
Corporal
Reged: 03/23/04
Posts: 57
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: LiRa]
#112304 - 08/16/05 09:35 PM (24.128.59.25)
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Well i do add research but i can only make TCs as fast as i can buy the dp and crews build them. I actually have 3 tcs being built but takes time. We all know that warring with a lvl 11 is not as easy as going to the unfaction list and finding a target. Usually have to either wait for an alliance war or go start one.
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Yoshikazu
Newbie
Reged: 08/16/05
Posts: 7
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: FeaR]
#112323 - 08/17/05 12:34 PM (67.162.216.231)
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that's not a promo code. plus, my empire is so crappy you would just be waisting your money.
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Yoshikazu
Newbie
Reged: 08/16/05
Posts: 7
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: Yoshikazu]
#112325 - 08/17/05 12:45 PM (67.162.216.231)
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Quote:
Newbies use promo code " I love chocolate " when starting a new empire
hmmm....who's spamming a promo code on every post he makes? sesshomeru maybe? maybe it's you that's "dumb as hell"?
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Sesshomeru
Lieutenant
Reged: 11/06/04
Posts: 518
Loc: Michigan,USA
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: Yoshikazu]
#112352 - 08/17/05 07:22 PM (67.149.34.124)
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I said you were dumb for giving out you empire name not your promo code. REad it more carefully next time. while it is true that i give out my promo code at the first guy that asks I don't do the same with my empire names. The only people that know my empire names are either my allies or I know their emps as well so I can always get revenge.
-------------------- With each kill I grow wiser and with that knowledge I grow stronger.
-Artemis Entreri
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Tigre
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 02/10/03
Posts: 1795
Loc: Atlanta, GA
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: Sesshomeru]
#112375 - 08/18/05 10:03 AM (12.47.79.2)
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however, Tigre tends to not pick on newbies, and encourages people to help newbies become addicted to the game.
-------------------- - Tigre
Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est
- Francis Bacon
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LiRa
Sergeant Major
Reged: 06/12/03
Posts: 369
Loc: Canada
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: Tigre]
#112384 - 08/18/05 01:37 PM (65.93.94.178)
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When he then starts to pick on them.
-------------------- Li
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Yoshikazu
Newbie
Reged: 08/16/05
Posts: 7
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: LiRa]
#112386 - 08/18/05 02:57 PM (67.162.216.231)
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Quote:
lol, you must be dumb as hell dude. Get ready to for War cause I'm pretty sure Tigre might come after you. He hates ppl who promote their promo coes in public and people such as you.
hmmm...I don't know how else to read that, no matter how carefully I read it.
take your own advice and read ppl's messages carefully b4 you make an arse out of yourself.
I still can't figure out how you got a promo code out of my original post...but please stop trying to look superior to a "dumb as hell" noob, your giving everyone from Michigan a bad stereotype.
maybe I better stop interacting with the pricks in this "game" least I become one of them. I feel sorry for you sess, I get the impression that you're an online bully cuz IRL your a sad little boy. one to many swirlies as a highschool boy? sorry, you don't seem mature enough to be a highschool boy.
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Sesshomeru
Lieutenant
Reged: 11/06/04
Posts: 518
Loc: Michigan,USA
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: Yoshikazu]
#112398 - 08/18/05 08:52 PM (67.149.34.124)
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"your giving everyone from Michigan a bad stereotype."
Detroit aleready ahs the worst rep in the US so I'm not hurting any.
By the way you missed the second paragraph when I said the whole now i'm serious and no longer joking. And that you shouldn't post your emp name in the forums. The first paragraph was just an example of why someone might come after you. I wasn't trying to make myself look superior, but actually trying to helpyou out(sort of). Ohh by the way I don't need to make myself look superior to anyone, especially not a noob. there's no challenge there.WE were all newbies once and I think I still am but I'm not a noob.
But now I just plain hate you and if I had a lvl 2 I'd hit your emp.
The promo code was another example do you undwerstand the "and people such as you" part. Send money to my empire wich is(blank) kinda stupid cause if someone get pissed at you they know where to hit.
PS: and oh yea it makes you a target for noob raiders. They attack your emp cause they know you can't put up any real resistance cause u a noob.
-------------------- With each kill I grow wiser and with that knowledge I grow stronger.
-Artemis Entreri
Edited by Sesshomeru (08/18/05 08:53 PM)
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Seo
Captain
Reged: 07/28/03
Posts: 805
Loc: Spam HQ
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: Sesshomeru]
#112401 - 08/18/05 09:35 PM (156.34.83.80)
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Silly Sess, there's no sense getting angry with a noob who has no sense of humour (well from what I've seen so far, for all I know he could become the next Chet) , now if he's a successful player with no sense of humour then feel free get in a scrape with him (as long as long as you don't drag me and the whole commonwealth into it with you) as he should know better.
-------------------- "...and Wayward will keep telling us how great the feature will be even it does screw the whole neveron community like a Hentai Tentacle Monster screws a Japanese School Girl..."
-Seo
For a nice cash bonus in new empires use the promo code "Seo is God"
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Yoshikazu
Newbie
Reged: 08/16/05
Posts: 7
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: Seo]
#112403 - 08/19/05 01:53 AM (67.162.216.231)
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I have a great sence of humor seo, but not when the first reply to my first post in a new game is someone telling me that I'm dumb as hell. yeah, I'm ROTFLMAO...
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Kanil
Captain
Reged: 03/13/03
Posts: 1028
Loc: Head Chef, Archon's Kitchen
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: Yoshikazu]
#112404 - 08/19/05 02:44 AM (69.171.193.112)
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Don't mind Sess, Yoshikazu. He's just an angry/confused Lyran/Wobbie/Spammer/HoC Agent/apprentice chef/etc.
-------------------- "The better news is that we are outnumbered, four to one."
- Clanners, and their whacked view of the world.
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Wraith
Major
Reged: 03/17/03
Posts: 1238
Loc: Wichita, KS, USA
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: Kanil]
#112408 - 08/19/05 05:41 AM (24.255.140.173)
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I more of figured Sess for a type of Sasquatch, even though there's little similarity between the two names, somehow in my head it gets garbled. Must have been drinking too much CRB Beer again
-------------------- -Wraith
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Sesshomeru
Lieutenant
Reged: 11/06/04
Posts: 518
Loc: Michigan,USA
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: Wraith]
#112412 - 08/19/05 08:46 AM (67.149.34.124)
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How am I a Sasquatch. It must've been the beer.
And oh yea Yoshi I was prolly pissed off bout something when i wrote that first post bout you. So the post was sorta like anger and helpfullness blended togetther so there you go.
Oh and Seo if I want to drag you and the entire Commonwelth into something then, I just might not let common sense stop me But seriously if all he's got is lvl 2's and I somehow magically(yes magic does exist, some call them bugs) mange to DOW him, I doubt anyone would care so much as to send their entire alliance into it. I'll prolly just have to say I'm sorry adn give him his stuff back Or it just might be ignored by the higher ups
-------------------- With each kill I grow wiser and with that knowledge I grow stronger.
-Artemis Entreri
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Yoshikazu
Newbie
Reged: 08/16/05
Posts: 7
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: Sesshomeru]
#112514 - 08/20/05 02:02 PM (67.162.216.231)
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no grudges, lets put it behind us.
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Sesshomeru
Lieutenant
Reged: 11/06/04
Posts: 518
Loc: Michigan,USA
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: Yoshikazu]
#112517 - 08/20/05 03:35 PM (67.149.34.124)
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lol, I already forgot about it But yea sure. I wasn't gonna hold a grudge against someone who just started the game I'm not retarded............... or am I
-------------------- With each kill I grow wiser and with that knowledge I grow stronger.
-Artemis Entreri
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Lead_Rain
Private
Reged: 04/18/04
Posts: 32
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink? - New research toys?
[Re: MEX]
#112644 - 08/24/05 02:26 AM (70.26.182.118)
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Since this game works on a somewhat exponential scale; "large" new money sinks won't harm smaller-scale empires, as the're designed to draw more cash from larger empires, while not hurting smaller ones. This is, of-course, only if it is designed to aid larger empires (and their larger responsibilities), without hindering the smaller players. Great ways of doing this are NSN's wonderful idea of Advanced TC's (you would of course only need them once you're large enough to be researching 2000 RP+ stuff, which is what most lvl 11+ empires are doing), so it would make sense to spend a billion or two (or more) nevcash to create or more importantly upgrade existing TC's to these ATC's. Another idea (again, one that only becomes meaninful for larger empires, so only they incurr the expense) is tower upgrades. Large empires have thousands of sensor and other towers. How about a cost-based upgrade feature for towers? Once you've researched 1000's of RP on sensor upgrades, why not allow players to spend a billion or two to auto-upgrade all of those towers? If you're a lvl 5, free-bee sensor towers are adequate. If your're a lvl 10+, upgrading those ass-kicking CF150 towers (that are now required to withstand the onslaught of a fellow big-boy lvl 10+ empire) would be a HUGE benefit, even with a large cost. Basic ECM starts at 2000. If you're going to research these things, spending a billion or 2 to upgrade ALL of your towers that are within your empire would be a significant benefit, and of course a significant money-sink that all of Neveron needs to prevent runaway inflation...
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buddy
Sergeant Major
Reged: 04/26/03
Posts: 336
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink?
[Re: FeaR]
#112710 - 08/25/05 07:48 AM (207.75.179.14)
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Just because the top 200 empires have 2 billion or more doesn't mean that there's too much cash on neveron. There are just 200 empires that need to have at least 2 billion on hand in case someone hits them. During the faction wars there's never an abundance of nevcash. The empires are just saving up for the next LW.
As for lvl 11+ empires not being able to spend all of their nevcash, they can always expand, or, if they don't want to expand, they can trasfer the nevcash to an ally that does want to expand.
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davion76
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 08/07/02
Posts: 1605
Loc: Ridgecrest CA, USA
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink?
[Re: buddy]
#112716 - 08/25/05 09:32 AM (12.219.244.44)
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I have over 6 billion. And that is not enough - I need to have~8 Bill in a warchest. I seriously doubt anyone on nev feels like they can't spend their money fast enough.
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mattbuck
Eeyore
Reged: 02/13/04
Posts: 2853
Loc: UK
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Re: Does Neveron need a new money sink?
[Re: davion76]
#112718 - 08/25/05 10:04 AM (84.66.115.116)
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Build a few TCs, bye bye billions.
-------------------- Haha, you people think admins still look at these forums.
Visit the Platonian blog!
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