Michaelius
Corporal
Reged: 10/01/02
Posts: 104
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What tank for low level empire
#41875 - 11/06/02 08:45 AM (212.76.33.74)
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Which of this tanks is best for lvl 0-1 empire:
Scorpion A1 or A3 (for about 2.75-3mln)
Scorpion AC2 variant (for 3.4 mln)
Striker (for about 5.5 mln)
something else??
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Stalker17
General
Reged: 06/24/02
Posts: 2581
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Re: What tank for low level empire
#41893 - 11/06/02 02:06 PM (65.80.157.209)
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both, in large groups.
--------------------
"Insanity is just another word for true creativity"
da SEXY Stalker17, out
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nerzhin
Corporal
Reged: 09/20/02
Posts: 119
Loc: Wisconsin, USA
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Re: What tank for low level empire
#41997 - 11/08/02 02:37 PM (165.200.84.152)
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Well, the question then becomes, are you asking for empire defense, or for arena duels?
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Michaelius
Corporal
Reged: 10/01/02
Posts: 104
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Re: What tank for low level empire
#42029 - 11/09/02 08:06 AM (212.76.33.72)
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Well for defence, for arena I belive Savavies would be best option:)))
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ChalengerII
Sergeant Major
Reged: 06/22/02
Posts: 271
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Re: What tank for low level empire
#42036 - 11/09/02 11:14 AM (62.254.0.4)
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For defence light tanks are a waste of time the AI just doesn't control them right unless they are fireing from long range in which case they might just have a high enought modifier from range to suvive long enought to cause damage. Goblins and Bulldogs may be more expencive but are more likely to suvive should you be unavaliale. Quite like the Hekters and Vedette AC10 and 20 veriants but they run out of ammo. Schecks and Manticores are good too but they arn't avaliable anymore unless you donate or buy them from donators. Challenger
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Krait
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 06/22/02
Posts: 1639
Loc: Krautland
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Re: What tank for low level empire
#42061 - 11/10/02 06:40 AM (172.178.96.194)
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Actually masses of light tanks are invaluable as landwar defense. 4 Scorpions for example are harder to kill than a single schrek. with vecs you always have the problem that a single hit is likely to kill them so multiple weaker vehs are usually better than a single strong one. Especially the STR-01 is a very good tank in that regard. It is fast, reasonably well armored, and has ample ammunition and quite a sting with its LRM-15. The shorter ranged vehicles are good only if you set them up on the borders of your zones so the enemy will be in range when he enters, else they will probably immobilized or killed at range w/o doing any damage.
Lata
Krait
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greenday4537
Newbie
Reged: 07/22/02
Posts: 15
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Re: What tank for low level empire
#42080 - 11/10/02 07:35 PM (68.38.242.203)
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If your going up against alot of infantry though you should use one that has machine guns and/or flamethrowers. It reallu depends on their roles and what they are up against.
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Krait
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 06/22/02
Posts: 1639
Loc: Krautland
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Re: What tank for low level empire
#42110 - 11/11/02 04:34 PM (172.178.74.209)
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Actually I would recommend stuff with LRMs or SRMs and lots of ammo against infantry. MG and flamer based stuff is pretty vulnerable to trained laser and SRM infantry because it has to get into the range of those (LRMs and SRMs dont have to), and one hit (14 damage) often is deadly.
Lata
Krait
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ardain
Corporal
Reged: 07/27/02
Posts: 155
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Re: What tank for low level empire
#42149 - 11/13/02 04:36 AM (203.125.46.210)
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Or if you want the highest BV for money forked out I think it will have to be the Striker, whose maintenance cost is only 1500 compared to the heavier tanks and other more expensive ones. The Scorpions might be good too but I haven't bought any of those cos they look really cheap so I passed them to look for something with more firepower.
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Stalker17
General
Reged: 06/24/02
Posts: 2581
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Re: What tank for low level empire
#42150 - 11/13/02 04:57 AM (65.80.158.2)
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scorps are good in groups, by themselves that 5 damage just doesn't cut it. they're around 30 BV at skill 8, so teh BV isn't too high. Striker has missles which tend to be higher BV (compare JEP-MG to JEP-SRM)
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"Insanity is just another word for true creativity"
da SEXY Stalker17, out
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Tempest56
Recruit
Reged: 11/06/02
Posts: 48
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Re: What tank for low level empire
#42153 - 11/13/02 11:31 AM (65.95.21.77)
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I was thinking about getting a Striker for early defense myself, until I checked the price math.
Striker: $5.5 million.
Jeep-LRM: $899,000
You can get 6 Jeep-LRMs for the price of one Striker. That's three times the ranged firepower and survivability.Upkeep and training's a bit higher, but the costs even out, I'd say, for the advantages.
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Fenris
Private
Reged: 09/04/02
Posts: 57
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Re: What tank for low level empire
#42180 - 11/13/02 07:58 PM (172.194.244.31)
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1 good AC-10 shot = 1 scrapped jeep 
You pay for better survivability and quality when you purchase bigger and better tanks.
Granted if you pulled that hypothetical, 100 Jeep-LRMs vs Atlas, I wouldn't be able to look you straight in the eye and say that the Atlas will win, but I think buying more expensive tanks is better in the long run.
Besides, how would you control more than a batt of anything in a battle? Which makes more powerful, and consequently more expensive tanks better in the long run.
For cheap tanks, Scorpion is the only option for under 4 million, unless you want to go smaller, then I would say IFVs. But I tend to stay away from APCs and Jeeps myself.
I don't have any Strikers, instead I saved up for larger tanks, with tons of armor, like Patton and Rommel. Sometimes you see these hovering around 12 million or so.
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Tempest56
Recruit
Reged: 11/06/02
Posts: 48
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Re: What tank for low level empire
#42183 - 11/13/02 09:05 PM (65.95.20.254)
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The problem with expensive, super-durable tanks is the tank crits. Sure, a big, nasty tank can take an AC20 hit and live - or a Striker can take an AC10 and solidly survive. But also if somebody hits it with an SRM, or even a lucky MG round - crit! You suddenly have a dead crew, or a crippled vehicle, or even just a beautiful fireball. Sure, the tank with the heavy armor has a better chance of survival - but it can become a heap of scrap pretty quick. Personally, when dealing with low-end vehicles and a short budget, I'm not gonna put all my eggs in one basket like that. Sure, a Jeep-LRM or two might get whacked - but that's less cost than what happens if the Striker gets one of those far-too-often crits.
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Melkor
Newbie
Reged: 09/26/02
Posts: 13
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Re: What tank for low level empire
#42189 - 11/14/02 12:45 AM (139.18.158.55)
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I've buy some Striker and some low cost vehicles like Jeep. Than i moved up to hover tanks like scimitar, condor or drillson. The speed of this vehicles are a better defence like tons of armor. Critical hits are a serious problem, it's true. In particular for hover tanks, but you must hit the tank first.
BTW, the strikers and the drillson have imo a very good relation of price and BV.
So long,
Melkor
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Ugleb
Sergeant
Reged: 11/11/02
Posts: 363
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Re: What tank for low level empire
#42212 - 11/14/02 12:58 PM (62.255.32.4)
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I'd agree with Tempest here. A low level empire can't rely on a handful of expensive vehicles, it needs to be able to build itself up as well as pay for new units.
It takes a long time for a small empire to buy something like a Condor, which makes it far worse if it gets taken out. If just for the players sanity. 
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ardain
Corporal
Reged: 07/27/02
Posts: 155
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Re: What tank for low level empire
#42762 - 11/24/02 01:01 AM (202.166.126.226)
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Exactly why strikers are often good in groups
With about 1 company that's tons of LRMs and SRMs to hit the enemy with. Anyway just curious, compared with the ease of crit in vehicles how do mechs fare? Is it easier to crit them with missiles too?
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TheDeadlyShoe
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 06/22/02
Posts: 1621
Loc: Redmond, WA
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Re: What tank for low level empire
#42768 - 11/24/02 02:14 AM (4.40.152.52)
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The odds of getting a "floating crit" through the armor, as its known in Nev, are extremely low on a mech, much less so than on other units. You can got ten arena fights without seeing a single floating crit, or if you are unlucky you can get 2 or 3 in the same fight. But they are never common. To fight mechs (except lights, or if you have overwhelming superiority), don't rely on SRMs.The damage spreads so much that it takes a long time to get through the armor in any one location. LRMs however are ok.
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Shoe for the NSI
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johngrim
Recruit
Reged: 11/03/02
Posts: 45
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
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Re: What tank for low level empire
#42799 - 11/24/02 12:50 PM (24.69.255.202)
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I'm a low level empire myself. One of the big problems I'm looking at is the problem of reloading ammo. Almost everything I can afford to buy ( which I know isn't much ) is ammo using vehicles. Well whack me between the eyes with a mallet but if I buy scorpians to defend the homestead. I sure wanna count on em for more than a battle. What the heck is the lowbie to do with vehicles with a couple of reloads left? I'm screwed without access to a Repair facility which I wont have for months. The cost of vehicles with just energy weapons is a horror. The lowest is a Savanahmaster at around 5 million and the goblin tank at around 9 million. Am i missing something here or is that the way it really is?Any advice would be appreciated. Thankyou
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Ugleb
Sergeant
Reged: 11/11/02
Posts: 363
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Re: What tank for low level empire
#42800 - 11/24/02 12:57 PM (62.255.32.4)
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I was having a browse on the markets the other day, looking at the APC variants.
They seem to compare well with Jeeps, for not that much more.
Any opinions?
Also, I'm wondering about something. Do they actually carry troops, or are they just called Armoured Personnel Carriers? 
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Sintares
Captain
Reged: 07/07/02
Posts: 922
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Re: What tank for low level empire
#42814 - 11/24/02 04:45 PM (195.92.194.16)
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One day the ability to carry troops might be coded. I believe the apcs all have a ton of free space for troops ..
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When I talk to God it's called prayer, when God talks specifically to me, its schizophrenia.
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Ugleb
Sergeant
Reged: 11/11/02
Posts: 363
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Re: What tank for low level empire
#42867 - 11/25/02 12:49 PM (62.255.32.4)
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I thought as much.
How do APC's rate as cheap combat vehicles for the low leveled of us?
You'd obviously switch to using better machines as your income grows, but I'm thinking as a stop-gap until I can afford to buy something better without destroying my finances. 12mill is ALOT of cash for me to spend on a single unit.
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McCraig_Group_W
Newbie
Reged: 11/20/02
Posts: 5
Loc: Germany,Munich
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Re: What tank for low level empire
#42930 - 11/26/02 03:15 AM (193.254.152.22)
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if you want , send me a Trade Alliance Request ..
Group W produce STR-01 (LRM-Striker) and the VED-A3
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so long
Crush McCraig [Group W] {St.Ives}
Group W CEO
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anderclayton
Captain
Reged: 08/05/02
Posts: 894
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Re: What tank for low level empire
#42932 - 11/26/02 03:28 AM (208.186.188.126)
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At some point you do *need* to wait around to save up cash for the largish vehicles (or even mechs). If you don't, your neighbor might...
Ander
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ardain
Corporal
Reged: 07/27/02
Posts: 155
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Re: What tank for low level empire
#43090 - 11/29/02 04:23 AM (202.166.126.225)
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If you ask me the APCs, switchblades and stuff with MG on them are just not worth buying. They contribute little to the BV and are used only as a defence against infantry. In addition to that they are quite easily destroyed. Get them only if you do not have enough defence against infantry.
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anderclayton
Captain
Reged: 08/05/02
Posts: 894
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Re: What tank for low level empire
#43096 - 11/29/02 12:49 PM (66.189.213.165)
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I don't know... I had a battle where I sure wished I had had a MG (or three) in my forces... They have a *lot* of ammo and if the battle progresses too far all of your people can run out of ammo (especially with LRM's). Also they are pretty dang cheap to reload.
Ander
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Ugleb
Sergeant
Reged: 11/11/02
Posts: 363
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Re: What tank for low level empire
#43110 - 11/29/02 04:41 PM (80.4.79.141)
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He has a point though. I think I have been over investing in Switchblades (Longblade variant). I bought them as cheap armour, which was a mistake. I expected to fight more infantry than I have done. I didn't realise that few people seem to use infantry offensively.
I'll always want to include them in my forces, but as a smaller part. A couple in an armoured company, rather than one or two in every lance (I said I over invested). While being one of the more affordable armoured vehicles, they are highly vulnerable against other Vehicles, with limited potential to fight back.
So use them in a support capacity to defend larger vehicles against infantry, don't send them up front hoping to do any damage. I think I'll find them useful in attacking cities, as infantry are used for construction rather than open combat.
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johngrim
Recruit
Reged: 11/03/02
Posts: 45
Loc: Vancouver B.C. Canada
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Re: What tank for low level empire
#43118 - 11/29/02 07:44 PM (24.69.255.202)
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What do you people think of the Goblin and Bulldog medium tanks ? To me , a complete rookie, they are expensive but they look to have decent armor and a decent energy weapon as a main gun. Am I overlooking something? Thanks in advance for any and all replies/and or opinions.
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Tempest56
Recruit
Reged: 11/06/02
Posts: 48
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Re: What tank for low level empire
#43131 - 11/29/02 11:30 PM (65.95.21.19)
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That's what use I get out of them. Aside from builders and jump troops to secure an initial LZ, infantry really doesn't have much use. A single Longblade in a city assault would be useful (even skill 8 infantry will eventually get a hit in) for clean-up, rather than wasting more valuable ammo. I just shove a Longblade into a fire support lance, and that's plenty.
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Tempest56
Recruit
Reged: 11/06/02
Posts: 48
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Re: What tank for low level empire
#43132 - 11/29/02 11:46 PM (65.95.21.19)
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They're expensive, yes - because of the rarity. Energy weapons take a pretty huge amount of research to get (3,506 RP for Large Laser technology), so few people are able to produce units that carry them. That's why energy-based vehicles are so pricey.
As for the Goblin and Bulldog - I'd say that they're actually worth the cost. Energy-central units are extremely useful in long fights and wars (no reloading to slow you down!), and Large Lasers, especally on a turret, are extremely powerful. The only real issue with those two is that they're slow - so a Jeep-LRM or Harrasser will eat them alive. But if you guard their backs with fast interception units (Savannah Master, Pegasus, etc), they're worth the cash. I wouldn't start off with them, though. Since you need to guard them from fast LRM units, you'd need to spend quite a lot for a beginner empire.
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Ugleb
Sergeant
Reged: 11/11/02
Posts: 363
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Re: What tank for low level empire
#43154 - 11/30/02 06:07 AM (80.4.79.141)
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I've just noticed that the Striker is actually quite a high BV unit for its cost, and will bring your empire a higher BV for the price than scorpions.
Could be worth while saving up a little more if you are looking to level up your empire.
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