Warner_Doles
12/02/01 11:33 PM
206.27.48.9
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Yeah I see that.
Oh btw, I have my new DnD PC at 6th Level. He is a fighter (oriental warrior) that uses a Katana (Bastard Sword) that I've spent some time getting him to the point that I'm happy with. The feats I've finally gotten for him are:
Cleave,
Exotic: Sword, Bastard (Katana)
Focus: Sword, Bastard (Katana)
Improved Initiative
Power Attack
Specialized: Sword, Bastard (Katana)
Great Cleave
Mounted Combat
I have a couple more feats I want to get. But I'm about ready to make 7th and he is going to be a "Knight Protector of the Great Kingdom" IF he can get sponsered! 
I'm pleased with the game even given with some of the things that I don't like. But I can leave with it. Considering what 2nd Edition was about.... 
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realworldviews
12/02/01 11:39 PM
24.98.66.27
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>>A modern RPG is most clearly what DnD is not. It abandons THAC0s, hitpoints, classes,
>>and levels for a more realistic and detailed roleplaying experience.
So I guess by your reckoning a Diceless RPG, like AMBER, (do you know it?), Its a Roger Zelazny RPG, based upon his Amber Chronicles, would be what you consider a "modern RPG". Because it does not use levels, THACO, HP, Classes, and whatnot, It just has your stats, abilites, and you, the gamer.
And to take it one step further, once you create your character, the GM basically keep your sheets, so you can't find out your stats compared to other gamers.
It almost completely consists your Role-Playing abilites.
No Dice, No Levels, No THACO, and No classes.
I guess this is THE "Modern RPG".
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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Bob_Richter
12/02/01 11:43 PM
134.121.144.40
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I like Third Ed, too....play it whenever I get the chance...
as always with me, numerous characters, no campaign. Maybe I should try to get into an OpenRPG campaign.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
12/02/01 11:48 PM
134.121.144.40
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Heard OF Amber. Never played it.
It does, indeed, sound pretty modern.
Though I like dice. Mmm. Dice.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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realworldviews
12/03/01 12:16 AM
24.98.66.27
|
And now with that said what makes a game like AMBER more "modern" than say a game like GURPS, or Vampire, or even the original D&D.
I would think that the more the game uses actual roleplaying the more "modern" the game will be. I have played entire D&D sessions without ever rolling a die. Given there was very little fighting,
but there is NO SUCH THING as a modern RPG.
IF a game came out 20 years ago like what you want would it still be a "modern RPG" or would it be a very good classic game.
And then if AD&D 2ed was released tomorrow wouldn't that be a "modern" RPG.
The biggest problem I see here is your use of the word -modern- .
Some people would say that the new ClickTech is a "modern" version of BattleTech, would you say that?
Some would say it will be better because you don't have all these little details to worry about.
It's more the fact that the enjoyment should be there.
If you don't like the way D&D is sent up then I agree don't play it,
if you don't like all the stats in BattleTech then don't play it.
A "modern" RPG should not be one that adds or removes things to "make it better", but should be a game that is FUN, that you can enjoy. When you look too far into it you just cause problems for yourself.
REALITY is meant to be forgotten, if only for a little while, while playing any of these games. If you start questioning little aspects of a game it will lose some of it's charm.
If you take mechs, are the feasible in real life? NO not really.
Take HP, are they meat asorbtion or ability to dodge and skills in battle? Let it be whichever way you see it as, or even more so, whatever works best for your characters.
There's a reason that some things aren't explained out to every last detail. It leaves room for interpetation, House rules, or however you want to look at them.
Sometimes details are better left not detailed.
Colonel Brian Davis
Gamers United
"Dreams become reality, for all who start off with a dream"
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Bob_Richter
12/03/01 12:34 AM
134.121.144.40
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Is the concept that "Newer=better."
Given that, the only reason DnD 3ed isn't a modern RPG is because it still has all that AD&D baggage.
:)
Seriously, though...DnD's retention of classes, levels, and HPs, and the damage they cause to suspension of disbelief are the main reasons I consider it an inferior roleplaying game.
>>>
IF a game came out 20 years ago like what you want would it still be a "modern RPG" or would it be a
very good classic game. <<<
It would be a very good classic game, particularly considering it is no longer being played. It's very like a modern RPG though, and if it was published today, it would fit right in.
>>>And then if AD&D 2ed was released tomorrow wouldn't that be a "modern" RPG. <<<
Good heavens, no. If "Pong" were released tomorrow, would that make it modern? No, Pong was a product of its times, like AD&D. DnD3ed is a throwback in many respects.
>>>The biggest problem I see here is your use of the word -modern- . <<<
It's a common term.
>>>Some people would say that the new ClickTech is a "modern" version of BattleTech, would you say
that? <<<
Again, GOOD HEAVENS NO! It's not a VERSION of Battletech, it's a whole new game IN THE BATTLETECH UNIVERSE. You might as well expect me to make the same endorsement for MC2 or MW4.
To your comments regarding "fun", all I can say is that the fun that I got out of AD&D came soley from laughing at it, and the brainsweat caused by figuring out THAC0s and ACs was not worth it compared to just watching a bad sci-fi movie. The fun I get from DnD3ed still mostly comes from laughing at it...but there's less brainsweat.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
12/03/01 12:40 AM
134.121.144.40
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Thanks to everyone's suggestions, I have put together the following revisions to the Rapier's game mechanics, which should give me at least mild satisfaction if my DM accepts them.
1) The Rapier is a thin and highly flexible blade, which prevents it from gaining much advantage from the user's strength. It gains no bonus to attack or damage from the user's strength (though strength PENALTIES remain in force.)
2) The Rapier draws its capacity to deal damage from the skill and finesse with which it is employed. When used with the Weapon Finesse Feat, the Rapier gains the user's Dexterity bonus to its damage as well.
3) When employed as the off-hand weapon with another Rapier, the Rapier is considered a light weapon for purposes of Two-Weapon Fighting.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
12/03/01 02:15 AM
134.121.144.40
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Oh, if only I were at home....if only your DM's wife didn't hate my girlfriend...
...If only my girlfriend would let me game without her....
I just got a nifty idea for going at the half-elf rapier fighter thing again....this time as a Ranger.
Ranger seems to suit the character concept better anyway, and by the time he gets to level 10, he'll have the Caster Level he needs to get "Craft Magical Weapons and Armor" (which would allow him to become the great weaponsmith he always wanted to be), then I think I can hit a few levels of Duelist until I get to 20.
On the other hand, are they still doing that "Intrepid Salvage Team" drek? 'Cause I can't stand it.
Do ask Cliff what he thinks of my revisions to the Rapier, when you get a chance.
And see if I can put in a few guest appearances at current average player level or so the next time I'm in town.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
12/03/01 04:08 AM
134.121.144.40
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"Caster Level 5th+" for Craft Magical Arms and Armor
A Ranger's "Caster Level" is 1/2 his current level (when he's level 4+, that is.)
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
12/03/01 04:32 AM
134.121.144.40
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Bob's new character: Ximbold Xiwicke
Str: 11
Dex: 18
Con: 12
Int: 13
Wis: 13
Cha: 10
Half-Elven Ranger (1)
Skills:
Climb Rank 2 + 0 + 0 = 2
Craft (Armorsmithing) Rank 1 + 2 + 0 = 3
Craft (Blacksmithing) Rank 2 + 2 + 0 = 4
Craft (Carpentry) Rank 1 + 2 + 0 = 3
Craft (Leatherworking) Rank 2 + 2 + 0 = 4
Craft (Trapmaking) Rank 2 + 2 + 0 = 4
Craft (Weaponsmithing) Rank 4 + 2 + 0 = 6
Heal Rank 1 + 1 + 0 = 2
Hide Rank 1 + 4 + 0 = 5
Jump Rank 1 + 0 + 0 = 1
Listen Rank 1 + 1 + 1 = 3
Move Silently Rank 2 + 4 + 0 = 6
Search Rank 1 + 2 + 1 = 4
Spot Rank 1 + 1 + 1 = 3
Tumble Rank 1.0 + 4 + 0 = 5
Feats:
Track (a la Ranger)
Weapon Finesse (Rapier)
Weapons:
Case of Rapier (2x Rapier, that is)
Throwing Axe (x6, for those times when ya just GOTTA have range.)
Armor:
None
(Let's recall that Rangers act as if they had two-weapon fighting and ambidexterity when wearing light armor or no armor.)
Favored Enemy: Humans. (This doesn't mean he and humans don't get along, just that he's good at killing them.)
Alignment: Lawful Neutral
Ximbold is a Road-Ranger. He roams the roads of many lands, protecting the weak, keeping the roads safe for other wanderers. Though he is young, he does not remember his home. His home is the road now. His wilderness is the roads and the cities, and the beasts he protects men against have Human form.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Nightmare
12/03/01 05:41 AM
194.251.240.107
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I don`t know about "utter bullcrap", but for some reason
people get this idea the katana point is for thrusting.
OK, you certainly can do so, but it`s not the weapon`s
main mode of use. And for armor-piercing, it`s about
as AP as any pointy tool would be, ie how hard is it
to drive a knife through a car door? There are several
tools which are much better at it than the katana though.
The katana`s point is actually for cutting, many blows are supposed to start with the first six inches of the blade landing on the target. From there you start one of the draw cuts the katana is so famous for. The angled point helps to
cut up flesh and bone and so it doesn`t only shear but
slice too.
And as for bamboo armor, the peasantry might have used
such sometime, but a rich warrior certainly had access
to metal armor. The best ones had plates of the same steel used in the katana, just as hard on the outside with a softer inside.
Advice for Evil Overlords:
My legions of terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
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Nightward
12/03/01 05:44 PM
203.134.12.8
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In Nomine was very good. Heh. Our group of three got Words and became Arch-Angels. But that's a story for another time...
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Nightward
12/03/01 05:51 PM
203.134.12.8
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Since we are talking archaic weapons, I wondered if anybody could answer a question.
The Morningstar. What the hell is it? What I call a Morningstar is wahat every computer game I have ever seen cals a 'Flail'. What they call a 'Morningstar', I call a 'Mace'. Ind what I call a 'Corbie' is what evryone else calls a 'Mace'.
Curiosity has finally gotten to me...which is right?
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Nightward
12/03/01 05:54 PM
203.134.12.8
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I will take the opportunity to say: MUNCHKINS!
This is an RPG, not a cheese contest!
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Nightward
12/03/01 06:08 PM
203.134.12.8
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"And as for bamboo armor, the peasantry might have used
such sometime, but a rich warrior certainly had access
to metal armor. The best ones had plates of the same steel used in the katana, just as hard on the outside with a softer inside. "
He would have had to have been a *VERY* rich warrior, so we're talking Shogunate Guard or *VERY* higly placed Daimyo. Metal was *INCREDIBLY* rare in Japan before Westernization-at least the kind of pig iron you needed to forge Katana and so on. Only the righest of the rich could afford to commission a new blade for their family; why would they waste sooooo much steel having armour forged for themselves when the same volume of steel could be used to make 5 or 6 Katana?
I would think it would be pretty tough to make watered steel armour, given the techniques needed to forge a Katana. The whole point of the forging process is to set up a crystilline metal matrix along the cutting edge. It's brittle, but diamond-hard. Given the fact that the same brittleness would render armour plate useless...
I was informed that Japanese armour was made from woven straw with laquered bamboo plating. Depending on type, but some bamboo, when dry, is a good 2-3 times harder than bone. If you can get the same (or probably better) protection out of a cheap weed as metal plate, which would you choose?
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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ErichRaulfestone
12/03/01 07:54 PM
164.76.107.162
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Well since I have played D&D since it was CHAINMAIL (shudder), I do believe that i can say with a certain amount of authority that a rapier is a fine weapon when used correctly. I have played every class and multi class variation. I have found that the rapier is one of thebest for size to weight ratio damage for its type.
Erich Raulfestone
Rangers, Lead the Way!
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"
And I said, "Here am I. Send me!"
Isaiah 6:8
......and I went......
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Nightward
12/03/01 08:04 PM
203.134.12.8
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I thought that morningstars were a mace head on a chain...thanks for that.
A 'Corbie' is basically a good 2 or 3 foot of solid ash or oak handle with a metal, heavily weighted head.
When I call things a 'Mace', I mean that it has armour-defeating flanges or assorted spiky bits in addition to the weigted head.
Heh. I play Diablo II (who doesn't?) and my favourite find in the game was:
WARNING! DO NOT KEEP READING IF YOU ARE INCONTINENT!
A 'Crude Club'. Eh? To me, a Club says "Here's your stick". I dont think you can really get too much cruder than that. I mean, what did they do? Make it from Balsa? But in D2 you get 'Cracked./Crude/Low Quality' equipment. Thus the 'Crude Club'.
Yea, verily. Let it be known far and wide that Nightward loathes MW: DA. Indeed, it is with the BURNING ANIMUS OF A THOUSAND SUNS that he doth rage against it with.
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Bob_Richter
12/03/01 09:56 PM
134.121.144.40
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DUDE! I have the PHB open right now. Believe me. It's 1/2 Ranger Level. (p 45, see for yourself.)
That means that rangers, when they get to level 4, suddenly burst upon the scene as level 2 casters...:)
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
12/03/01 09:57 PM
134.121.144.40
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DnD is all ABOUT munchkinism :)
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
12/03/01 10:00 PM
134.121.144.40
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Hm. Well, the technical definition allows for just a heavy steel head.
Which, by the way, is nasty enough. flanges and spikes pretty much amount to decoration.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
12/03/01 10:02 PM
134.121.144.40
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Flails must have at least two chains and usually have three or more. A Morningstar fails to qualify on being short of chains.
You could call it a mace....but it's really a quite special weapon.
What you call a "Corbie" is very much a mace.
But don't stop calling it a "Corbie." Mace is a very broad category.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
12/03/01 10:04 PM
134.121.144.40
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Eh....well, that depends really.
If you're playing DnD 3ed, that's not strictly true. The longsword is really a better weapon (d8 vs d6 crit range doesn't make that much of a difference), and my 18 would have been better off in Str.
The Longsword and Rapier are considered to be the same size.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Bob_Richter
12/04/01 12:00 AM
134.121.144.40
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Nope. He's a Fighter type, therefore he doesn't get as cool in spellcasting as fast.
It would probably work out better, though, if they gave him a 1 caster level at 2 and let him cast then.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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Acolyte
12/04/01 01:40 AM
142.179.28.75
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Try HarnMaster, if you can get the first ed. Brutal combat system. Very realistic, down to the dying from bloodloss, shock, and infection (days later).
It takes into consideration different types of damage (Blunt, edged, point, squeeze, tear, and fire/frost). And one good hit is all it takes. Criticals are all about skill (crit sucesses and faliures) and slightly above average attributes actually mean something. And there are no character classes.
Light a fire for a man, and you keep him warm for one night,
Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Acolyte
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Nightmare
12/04/01 01:49 AM
194.251.240.107
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<<<Metal was *INCREDIBLY* rare in Japan before Westernization-at least the kind of pig iron you needed to forge Katana and so on. <<<
Well, I`m mostly thinking of Sengoku Jidai and later, when
they already had Western traders around. I`ll happily admit
to having no idea about what they made armor of before
the 15th century. (A quick websearch suggests that the old Yoroi armor had metal only for the breastplate, and
that`s a 11th century armor style)
<<<I would think it would be pretty tough to make watered steel armour, given the techniques needed to forge a Katana.<<<
Ehh, did I say same technique? The katana is made of two parts, a softer iron backside with a harder steel edge. You
make armor by using iron for backing and steel for outer face. No need
<<<If you can get the same (or probably better) protection out of a cheap weed as metal plate, which would you choose?<<<
Aside from the fact that I don`t know how well weeds hold up to bullets, I`ll still say metal. That shows you`re rich and
powerful instead of a poor schlob. Here`s a suit of armor that,
while certainly fine, isn`t so uncommon that the owner`s name would be known.
http://www.samuraiart.com/black_armor.htm
Advice for Evil Overlords:
My legions of terror will be trained in basic marksmanship. Any who cannot learn to hit a man-sized target at 10 meters will be used for target practice.
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Acolyte
12/04/01 01:50 AM
142.179.28.75
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A Morningstar is a club with spikes in the business end. Some were no more that peices of heavy wood with long spikes nailed into them from many angles. Others were metal down to the pommel. It depended on whether the weapons was made by peasents for a battle, or as a weapon for a noble's arsenal.
There is a weapon called a Morningstar Flail. It is a spiked head on the end of a chain attached to a handle. It is also called a Flail. A mace is a club with the head re-enforced with metal. Some of the later versions of this weapon were made entirely out of metal. This gets more confusing because a Flail is also termed a Mace and Chain.
Light a fire for a man, and you keep him warm for one night,
Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Acolyte
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Acolyte
12/04/01 02:42 AM
142.179.28.75
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HarnMaster. When you use skills you get improvement rolls. Simple system, too. You roll percentile is if you are using said skill, and if you fail, your skill improves (the more skilled you are, the slower your skill improves). Each skill is done sepretely. If you don't use the skill, it stays where it is. Also, practice, study, and being taught give improvement rolls, same as experiance. There are no levels. Just skills that go up individually.
There are also no classes. There are proffessions, which determine your starting skills, but anyone can learn any skill providing they can find a teacher and time to learn.
There are no hit points. You start with 0 injury points, and as you get hurt, these points build up and shock rolls get harder to resist. Skills (like broadsword and roundsheild) get harder to use successfully. You can cause someone to go into shock (knocking them out), cause fumble rolls, stumble rolls, kill rolls (most people go into shock and die of bloodloss before waking up, but you can kill someone instantly if you hit them hard enough) and my favorite - amputation rolls. The force of the blow compared to the armor hit, and the part of the body hit determine the injury. A club hitting you with just the tip in the thigh will hurt, and maybe make you stumble, but the same hit with the same force in the knee may cripple you.
Each injury is recorded seperately and each heals sepatately. The rate of healing is determined by the treatment of the injury, it's severity, it's cause and your endurance. Not all wounds heal compleately, and you can wind up with impairments. And infections can occur. These can make you very sick for a few days or kill you. The treatment? Big knife and hot peice of metal. If it's a limb. If it's your torso or head, good luck.
Light a fire for a man, and you keep him warm for one night,
Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Acolyte
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Acolyte
12/04/01 02:50 AM
142.179.28.75
|
Norse and early celtic swords were about the size of DnD longswords. So were many swords that were reffered to as broadswords. Just a nitpik.
Light a fire for a man, and you keep him warm for one night,
Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Acolyte
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Acolyte
12/04/01 02:56 AM
142.179.28.75
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David Eddings also writes cats better than anyone else I know. He gets the sucking up/I own you now just about right.
I also like Prachet "If cats looked like frogs people would realise what mean little buggers they really are".
Light a fire for a man, and you keep him warm for one night,
Light a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Acolyte
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Bob_Richter
12/04/01 03:50 AM
134.121.144.40
|
Sounds amusing. I may have to try it out sometime.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter
Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
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