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Toontje
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Re: 10t BattleMechs ? [Re: CaBhaal]
      #111930 - 08/09/05 02:07 AM (84.24.165.226)

c'mon, the most important is all the empire levels. I hope all will be upped to lvl 3 max, or maybe, just maybe, up to lvl 4 will be implemented!

Or limb replacements for arms required, that would be hmm, not always fun maybe, but in line with the legs.

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Kanil
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Re: 10t BattleMechs ? [Re: Toontje]
      #111932 - 08/09/05 03:05 AM (69.171.193.112)

SILENCE! Rejoice for the coming of the Quads is near!

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"The better news is that we are outnumbered, four to one."
- Clanners, and their whacked view of the world.


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davion76
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Re: 10t BattleMechs ? [Re: Kanil]
      #111945 - 08/09/05 02:30 PM (138.163.0.41)

I haven't heard whether the scorpion or the Goliath will be coded, but since so much else is being added I wouldn't be surprised.

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davion76
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Re: 10t BattleMechs ? [Re: davion76]
      #111949 - 08/09/05 05:46 PM (138.163.0.43)

I reread ths post and realized I misscommunicated the bit about quad movement.

A Quad will be able to walk in any direction (not run) WITHOUT a facing change.


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davion76
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Re: 10t BattleMechs ? [Re: Sesshomeru]
      #111956 - 08/09/05 09:28 PM (12.219.244.44)

Well, the updates just told ya'll about another one. Get ready for its counterpart - skill losses!

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Antoni
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Re: 10t BattleMechs ? [Re: tbird89]
      #111962 - 08/10/05 01:01 AM (170.131.131.254)

I don't get it. Maybe you didn't understand either MEX. I don't play BT. I play Neveron and I was making fun of you

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jaggeh
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Re: 10t BattleMechs ? [Re: Antoni]
      #113344 - 09/05/05 12:18 PM (213.190.149.122)

ICE mechs............................. (randy loved this idea as far as i remember)

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tbird89
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Re: 10t BattleMechs ? [Re: jaggeh]
      #113360 - 09/05/05 06:27 PM (69.167.31.158)

lol jaggeh, this thread wasn't just dead, it was brutally murdered in rage.
so please, just leave it that way

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why? becuase. jesus told me to. and you wanna know something else that jesus told me? he said that everytime it rains, it's becuase god is crying over something u did. because god hates you.
so does superman


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jaggeh
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Re: 10t BattleMechs ? [Re: tbird89]
      #113386 - 09/06/05 04:44 AM (213.190.149.122)

im a necrothreadiac (or something)
i wont post again

--------------------
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years be ruined by idiotic ideas. id rather leave and have good memories.


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Seo
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Re: 10t BattleMechs ? [Re: jaggeh]
      #113414 - 09/06/05 12:10 PM (156.34.76.57)

I missed out on the MEX threads, so I might as well use this as an excuse to resurect the thread.

Although the Slug is crap, 10t mechs (why don't we just call'em proto's) would be cool if done right (might have to invent some new nev-tech stuff for it to work though).

--------------------
"...and Wayward will keep telling us how great the feature will be even it does screw the whole neveron community like a Hentai Tentacle Monster screws a Japanese School Girl..."
-Seo

For a nice cash bonus in new empires use the promo code "Seo is God"


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Tigre
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Re: 10t BattleMechs ? [Re: Seo]
      #113422 - 09/06/05 02:00 PM (12.47.79.2)

Yep, the Uber-plasma-gauss-Mark XXXI small laser, 1 heat, range 32, 18 damage.

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- Tigre

Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est
- Francis Bacon


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NekoZero
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Re: 10t BattleMechs ? [Re: Seo]
      #113423 - 09/06/05 02:02 PM (138.88.180.166)

Seo on that thought. I was wondering if a converted mech. Or a proto mech as you put it would really be a mech or a bipedal vehicle?

Proto-mech? Maybe Psudo-mech instead? Ofcourse if you get down to ICE and scale down some of the real mech concepts you might end up with 5 ton psudos. Actually anything 5-15 ton could probably fit in the range, and it wouldn't need to be an exact multiple of 5. On sheer insanity you could probably strap jump jets onto one and get twice the distance out of it due to mass ratio. Heh walk 3/ run 4 /jump 6. And they said it couldn't be done. To steal some from my post a bit back, put a industiral buzz saw (extra int damage) or a drill bit (chance to peirce) on one hand and it has a melee weapon. For the other hand or somewhere torso mounted give it a real weapon or two.

I could also see such psudo-/proto- mechs falling into pirate hands quite easily. But if anyone is worried that they'd be too over powered, keep in mind armor and structure is relitive to size. As well a good kick from an assult mech would be rid ot if. But a LCT or Wasp might think twice about letting one close. However if diffrent varrients were researchable like mechs. Well...that would just rule. The fanciest versions of psudos might even have weak sensor equipment...but that makes them more costly.

Possible weapons for such mechs: ((Assumed that if mk I works, so will mk II))
LRM 5, LRM 10 is pushing it at best. (1/3 of a 15 ton pusdo would be the launcher)
SRM 2, SRM 4, SRM 6 all seem to work
AC2, AC 5 (2 is a stretch, 5 like the LRM 10 is really pushing it)
MG, Flamer easily
Energy Flamer (if diffrent in Neveron then fuel flamer)
SL, ML, (But between heatsinks and laser size LL is unlikely)
Hatchet, Drillbit, Buzz saw.
tiny Death From Above if it actually has JJs, especially if it gets extra jump for its size.

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tbird89
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Re: 10t BattleMechs ? [Re: NekoZero]
      #113427 - 09/06/05 05:01 PM (69.167.31.158)

neko, one of the arguements against 10 ton mechs i have is that infantry could wipe them out. granted, 10 tonners would probably mount anti infantry weapons, but the whole point of infantry (atleast in my dictatorship of an empire lol) is that they are expendable
i mean 300 bv worth of infantry vs one of your 10 ton mechs? no question of who would win there (i only say 300 bv becuase that is the average BV of a light veehichle, such as a striker, in my empire) even light mechs would be able to pick your ten tonners off with ease, seeing as they would be MUCH faster than your 10 tonner. also, seeing as your units WOULD have poor snsors, randy would probably implement something like =2 to hit for them to make it more realistic, meaning they would have almost no chance to hit a fast light mech unless they were like perfect skill. granted, all my mech pilots ARE perfect skill, but i doubt that newbie emps, which are the only ones i can see using this kind of mech, rarely have such skilled units

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why? becuase. jesus told me to. and you wanna know something else that jesus told me? he said that everytime it rains, it's becuase god is crying over something u did. because god hates you.
so does superman


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NekoZero
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Re: 10t BattleMechs ? [Re: tbird89]
      #113429 - 09/06/05 05:42 PM (138.88.180.166)

300 bv infantry if at the lowest weapon assult rifle foot. Assumed lowest skill since who pays to train infantry is BV 4. 300 / 4 = 75. There aren't very many units in this game that 1 on 1 could stand up to 75 infantry solo. A few laser mechs and other things could vs AR-F, but most would slowly get flanked and swarmed or just run out of useful ranged weapons. On the other hand the upkeep of 75 skill 8 AR-F would be something along the lines of $37500 at 100%. Oh...I'm pretty sure an industrial buzz saw (like what is used to cut mech armor to the proper shape and length, think factory machinery) can be pretty lethal to infantry.

As to the sensors, if you notice most light vehicles are pretty much blind too. Especially the ones in the noobie range. The best sensors you find (from what I've seen) are full mechs. And I am pretty sure that Infantry don't come with sensors either. You see it, you take aim, you shoot. ... you curse, you adjust aim, then you shoot again.

Besides, with jump or extended jump capability they would help balance out, especially over rough terrain. Jump behind that critter and cut a hole thru the back armor, or jump over that next hill and they loose LOS.

But *sniffles* the real test on weither or not they would be used will never happen. That would be put them into the game maybe from Nev-Arms-Inc with a few models at a fair price. If they get bought up like mad, then yes empires will use them. If they sit there dropping in price till you can buy them or a Jeep-MG for the same cost...then nope they are worthless.

The other part is that if they were player researchable like mechs that means upgraded varrients. While the first one may not match a real mech, it may have its uses. Later varrients with improvements might make a rather efficient low cost unit.

Other advantages over vehicles: Turret damage, crew stunning crits, a jeep has 7 parts that can 'break it' many of which can be damaged before armor is even breached. If you total the left side of a tank, its dead. (I think) If you total the left arm of a mech, it attacks you with the right.

Edit/Extension: Tbird if they do use mech skills and only cost $1-5 million. I think I just found a reason why even the Huge producer empires may want a few.
" Training Mechs "

Rather then spend 30 Mill, give or take to put them in an LCT, why not spend a fraction of that to see if they are any good?

--------------------
http://www.umuc.edu/constitution/
I might be a noob, but I'm trying.
Support your noobs, Promo code: "of fire and knight"

Edited by NekoZero (09/06/05 06:01 PM)


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Kanil
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Re: 10t BattleMechs ? [Re: Tigre]
      #113432 - 09/06/05 06:01 PM (69.171.193.112)

You forgot the "Clan" prefix.

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"The better news is that we are outnumbered, four to one."
- Clanners, and their whacked view of the world.


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Aunduril
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Re: 10t BattleMechs ? [Re: Kanil]
      #113436 - 09/06/05 08:14 PM (209.86.37.15)

You people are starting to make me want these things implemented...I want to find various ways to kill them.

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"What we do in life echos into eternity. " - Maximus - The Gladiator.


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tbird89
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Re: 10t BattleMechs ? [Re: Aunduril]
      #113446 - 09/07/05 12:26 AM (69.167.31.158)

lol aundy, but you also have to realixe necko, that these mechs aare not intened for combat, so they wouldn't even have the advantage of iron sights (how would that work on an agro mech?) that a jeep or rifle has. also how in the name of god would a ten ton walking machine with an internal combustion engine jump? jump jets "supposedly" work by venting the fusion exhuast th the jets, or some crazy thing like that, which is why only one vehichle in all of battle tech has jj's. i mean, if i could have an army of jumping geckos, well that would be insanely awesome, but not too realistic. also, i doubt anything as effective as you describe would be priced as 5 mill. so they would not be that chap. and i currently have 5 trainer mechs, they did not cost that much for my empire (which is miraculous, if you ask any of my faction mates, i'm always just an inch away from poverty lol)

--------------------
why? becuase. jesus told me to. and you wanna know something else that jesus told me? he said that everytime it rains, it's becuase god is crying over something u did. because god hates you.
so does superman


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Aunduril
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Re: 10t BattleMechs ? [Re: tbird89]
      #113459 - 09/07/05 08:03 AM (209.86.36.122)

All in all they would not be worth the cost and effort...but it would be fun to see what say a LL would do to one.

--------------------
"What we do in life echos into eternity. " - Maximus - The Gladiator.


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NekoZero
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Re: 10t BattleMechs ? [Re: tbird89]
      #113460 - 09/07/05 08:12 AM (138.88.180.166)

Quote:

jump jets "supposedly" work by venting the fusion exhuast th the jets, or some crazy thing like that


Holy crap! Infantry run on fussion reactors? No wonder the little suckers cost 10,000 just to hire.

Actually there was supposed to be a hundred ton tank with jump jets in some tech-group. Really kind of an oddity. The Kanga or something? But man that'd hurt if it landed on you. But if you really want a jumping Gecko, beg for a Ferret-VTOL.

On the As effective, you notice I said researched varriants. Starting out moderate and if people want to produce improved ones they re-research. Same way it goes with mechs, just generally a cheaper units so a cheaper research. Its not like you're suddenly gonna discover one with a PPC etc.

As to the sights, even the simplest vehicle can mount iron sights or a targetting computer. Even the cheesiest targetting system can point a laser pointer at a view screen to show you about where your aimed. Note I said lack of sensors, not lack of any technology at all. Seriously it takes a couple hours for a decent programmer to a couple days at most to cobble together a "your gun is pointing that way" targetting system. Also some of the weapons duct tap-*coughs* I mean bolted carefully on are stuck in a forward arc possition. In those cases a simple mark on your front view window gives you an X sighting. Though admitedly that means the pilot needs to y-sight themself.

As to price though *sighs* you may be right. I mean look whats in stores now:
SFT-P Swiftwind Scout Car #5 $ 1,499,999
Thats a small, fast and utterly weaponless sensor craft. Almost 2x faster then a gecko, a sensor power 1 stronger and less armor. And it costs about 3x as much. While its a nice fast scout, if the driver sneezes it might blow out the armor. Out of around 11020 empires, there are 186 of these in play. $1.5 million cost.

--------------------
http://www.umuc.edu/constitution/
I might be a noob, but I'm trying.
Support your noobs, Promo code: "of fire and knight"


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Kanil
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Re: 10t BattleMechs ? [Re: NekoZero]
      #113461 - 09/07/05 08:35 AM (69.171.193.112)

The Kanga is a 50 ton Hover Vehicle. It moves 8/12/6? and uses specially designed Jump Jets that it's I.C.E. engine can recharge.
Infantry use a more conventional personal jump-pack. I'd describe how it works, but I don't really know that well myself.

Only the Swiftwind RP/X/XLR are really useful for scouting. The R and P are just indeed oversized Geckos. And Geckos are only useful for training/holding/speedbump purposes. Ferrets would be awesome. *looks hopefully towards WW & Randy*

Lastly: Anyone think Neko is MEX with a new name? They both post far too often, think they know everything, have a hard time getting to level 1, and love these crappy assed 10t 'mechs.

--------------------
"The better news is that we are outnumbered, four to one."
- Clanners, and their whacked view of the world.


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NekoZero
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Re: 10t BattleMechs ? [Re: Kanil]
      #113462 - 09/07/05 08:51 AM (138.88.180.166)

Kanil I could say a few things rude. It might even be considered fair or deserved. But that wouldn't help my case. It wouldn't make any friends, though not everyone here is friendly either. No I'm not MEX. No I don't claim to know it all, if you notice if I am unsure about something I don't try to hide that. Yes I do even slip up at times *Gasp* Human error factor!

If you notice where I post its usually when something comes up or someone cross referances it. I started one thread on a topic, and then only mention it in other posts where relavant. Quite often my post is in reply to someone else. Kanil just to ask, since I don't have all day to read. When was your last constructive suggestion in a post?

Oh yes, it took about 2 weeks for me to get to L1. How fast do you expect someone who's never played Nev before to get there? Also that was without promo codes or friends that play. 5 mill, 9km^2, 4 jeeps and lots of help files to read. So if I didn't instantly jump to L1 I'll live with it. Since I didn't instantly get frustrated and quit, everyone else will have to live with it. Fair enough?


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Kanil
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Re: 10t BattleMechs ? [Re: NekoZero]
      #113464 - 09/07/05 09:27 AM (69.171.193.112)

Right, you could say a few things rude. But you've already been bickering with tbird over specifics and wordings for a while, so you might as well continue saying rude things now, right?

As for you and MEX, you both sound rather similar. I remain unconvinced.

My last constructive suggestion? Well, I don't know. All I do here is pollute with useless spam, which makes me rather similar to you... But, if I had to say, my last "constructive suggestion" (which is rather opinionated anyway) was two days ago. Or, 4 posts ago.
[Edit] Your last "constructive suggestion" (again, highly opinionated) was some 10 posts ago. [/edit]

And, about getting to level 1. I did not mean that as an attack. It has been years since I was a clueless newbie, poking around wondering how everything works. Perhaps that's how long it takes. I do not remember. But it seems to me that MEX and you both did a lot of posting, seeming to think you both knew everything, before you were even level 1, hence why I mentioned it.

--------------------
"The better news is that we are outnumbered, four to one."
- Clanners, and their whacked view of the world.

Edited by Kanil (09/07/05 09:29 AM)


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Aunduril
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Re: 10t BattleMechs ? [Re: Kanil]
      #113466 - 09/07/05 10:46 AM (209.86.36.122)

I would like to Mention that NekoZero makes much more realistic comments than MEX and has made so really funny ones. And Kanil, I wouldn't talk about inability to level if I were you

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"What we do in life echos into eternity. " - Maximus - The Gladiator.

Edited by Aunduril (09/07/05 10:47 AM)


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Seo
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Re: 10t BattleMechs ? [Re: Aunduril]
      #113482 - 09/07/05 04:06 PM (156.34.85.105)

I wouldn't say that proto's would be useless in combat, Tbird. If they have enough speed to keep a movement mod on them they could become efective flankers. Just imagine groups of them flanking the sniper battalions that are used today, and launching some good 'ole SRM into their backsides.

--------------------
"...and Wayward will keep telling us how great the feature will be even it does screw the whole neveron community like a Hentai Tentacle Monster screws a Japanese School Girl..."
-Seo

For a nice cash bonus in new empires use the promo code "Seo is God"


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NekoZero
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Re: 10t BattleMechs ? [Re: Kanil]
      #113484 - 09/07/05 04:10 PM (138.88.180.166)

"Bickering with tbird". Actually, if it seemed that way I'd owe him an apologie. I took the conversation with tbird on the level of casual or even friendly banter, none of it was ment as insult. Tbird, if you happened to take any of it as offensive then I'm sorry. I figgured with your sense of humor as shown in posts that you'd take any wise cracks of mine on a humorous note.

Kanil, I asked when your last constructive post was because you seemed to do a great deal of criticizing. Doing so too much without any friendlier comments or constructive suggestions might embitter people.

I suppose if you wish (or by this point if not its too late) I'll point out another few diffrences between myself and MEX.

MEX wanted a specific design in, no less one with his name in the referance and I believe it had posted he had another one he'd designed and wanted. From what I heard he posted several new threads for his topics adding annoyance.

I just like the concept of them but don't want to sit there and assemble them bit by bit. I'd rather get the concept or class of mech introduced and let the builders/coders have fun with it. I don't have to fit every thing in a tight little box, I like ideas and creativity to flow. I like general realism but not strict adhereance to the tried and tested. I made 1 original post and only bring it up again where referanced or relivant. I like varriety and apreaceate its use on the battle field, even the lowly Jeep comes in about 5 flavors.

As to L1 well I heard some people say you can hit it in 15 minutes. Use a code, get some large producer to send you a TA and buy a flood of vehicles at a discount. Ofcourse, then you'd be a L1 with OMT, correct? Not sure how long it takes in truth I'd guess somewhere 1-2 weeks for trying and much longer if you just wanted to coast on the newbie food stamps and research bonus. If you have spare time some time and less then 5 empires you might consider creating a new one just to see what its like now. Just log in 1-3 times a day and check on it, put drivers in vehicles, check your infra etc. You may find that by the time you reach L1 or L2 your perspective has changed a bit. If you want to get their faster, use a code and it tripples your cash. (in Humor) If you don't fall back on friends or alliances you may find yourself wishing there was a cheaper mech too. (/humor)

Btw Aunduril, thanks.

--------------------
http://www.umuc.edu/constitution/
I might be a noob, but I'm trying.
Support your noobs, Promo code: "of fire and knight"


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Kanil
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Re: 10t BattleMechs ? [Re: NekoZero]
      #113487 - 09/07/05 04:36 PM (69.171.193.112)

Actually Neko, I recently have made new empires, despite what you seem to think.

Oddly enough, I have a pair of empires that are level 0 right now. Due to their intended use (Seo? Seo?) I cannot level them up in a rapid fashion, but I would expect that it would take roughly 3 RL days, with a promo code, but no other outside help, to reach level 1. Provided you know what you are doing. (About 5 without a promocode)

But, whatever. I will not continue this argument here. This thread deserves rest, and I pray MEX does not return. If you feel the need to make any further assurances of your right-ness (You're a Davion, arn't ya'?) then send me a PM. Or perhaps you could make a new thread, but I don't think the forum'ers want to listen to us cry, they get enough of that in public mail after all.

--------------------
"The better news is that we are outnumbered, four to one."
- Clanners, and their whacked view of the world.


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Seo
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Re: 10t BattleMechs ? [Re: Kanil]
      #113488 - 09/07/05 04:40 PM (156.34.85.105)

Hush Hush Kanny, you must not give away any of my plot to become the new nevlord

--------------------
"...and Wayward will keep telling us how great the feature will be even it does screw the whole neveron community like a Hentai Tentacle Monster screws a Japanese School Girl..."
-Seo

For a nice cash bonus in new empires use the promo code "Seo is God"


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MEX
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Re: 10t BattleMechs ? [Re: NekoZero]
      #113514 - 09/08/05 05:07 AM (213.143.116.63)

Quote:

Rather then spend 30 Mill, give or take to put them in an LCT, why not spend a fraction of that to see if they are any good?


This is the main reason why I am interested in a 10t Mech.

The 2nd reason is that such a Mech would be much easier to research as your first mechdesign.

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Kanil
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Re: 10t BattleMechs ? [Re: MEX]
      #113518 - 09/08/05 06:04 AM (69.171.193.112)

Right. But if every empire could afford a training 'mech for 1.5 million, don't you think that might... just maybe... upset game balance slightly?

Randy & Co. are looking to reduce the amount of elite pilots. Getting to try 20 times more pilots than you currently can is not a good way to meet their goal.

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- Clanners, and their whacked view of the world.


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MEX
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Re: 10t BattleMechs ? [Re: Kanil]
      #113519 - 09/08/05 06:26 AM (213.143.116.63)

There are so many elite pilots only because it is too easy to train pilots, not because of the cost of their ride

If Randy & Co want to reduce the number of elite pilots, they should stop training at 4 and not at 2 !
I have never heard of any army beeing able to train VETERANS without any real combat experience in RL.

And they should include a probability which is raising with the skill of the trainies that they are accidentally killed during training.

MfG, MEX

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