Auren_Shiro
12/02/05 07:49 AM
24.34.100.170
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Okay, we've got the resources issue settled, we can somewhat confirm that the WoB had access to some pretty bad-ass industry through FWL and who knows what survived on Terra... although from the kill count of Mechassault and Mechassault 2, which has you hunting Wobbies, they should be short a lot of people and a lot of mechs, installations, everything.
On that note, I don't remember what world MA1 was on, but you did run around a pretty heavily industried map with installations big enough for mech factories.
Of course, I razed'em.
So... Wobbies cloned themselves through fanatacism, and breaking people so that you can corrupt them... I can't really buy that.
Need...more...Nevcrack...
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Karagin
12/02/05 08:25 AM
24.243.178.223
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Uhmmm sorry but NOTHING has been answered about their industry. Cray can put all the figures he wants up, but the BT setting doesn't support a small group expanding like the WoB did, if that was the case then why didn't the Dragoons become a major power house? Similar setup, one world, lots of tech etc...yet the Dragoons didn't, so why should the WoB get this break so to speak in less time then it took anyone else to become a major power or even a minor one.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
12/02/05 09:16 AM
147.160.136.10
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Quote:
More or less. I have been harping on the whole manpower issue for a long time now and it's one of the areas that I point out that get's skated by everytime someone runs up to defend the whole Jihad.
Manpower is another valid area of concern.
However, I don't think I "skate" around the manpower issue. I always point out the same thing: WoB has plenty of manpower. Hiring a few thousand soldiers to fill out the WoB militia is not difficult, nor is training more when WoB picked up a core of professional ComGuard personnel.
As yet another point on why manpower is a non-issue, WoB has access to a minimum of 40x the US's WW2-era manpower and only needs about 1% of the personnel that the US put in uniform between 1940 and 1945.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Cray
12/02/05 09:44 AM
147.160.136.10
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Quote:
although from the kill count of Mechassault and Mechassault 2, which has you hunting Wobbies, they should be short a lot of people and a lot of mechs, installations, everything.
The computer games are not canon. Their events have nothing to do with BT until they are written into an official novel or sourcebook.
Quote:
So... Wobbies cloned themselves through fanatacism, and breaking people so that you can corrupt them... I can't really buy that.
And you shouldn't buy it. It's not true.
Not all WoBblies are ranting fanatics. Many Comstar people who joined WoB were not toaster-worshipping fanatics at all - they were just disgusted with changes in Comstar but not ready to give up on Comstar, so they went to the alternative Comstar, the Word of Blake. That's where quite a few of the original WoB militia troops came from: ComGuards who were pissed about having to work for a "foreign ruler," Victor Steiner-Davion. The way the ComGuards got embroiled in the FedCom Civil War pissed off more Comstar personnel. They were supposedly neutral, but they were fighting on one side of a civil war? So, join WoB. Then, when WoB needed to expand its militia, it had a core of trained personnel (about 10 or 20 mech regiments worth of expatriate ComGuard mechwarriors, IIRC) that could be used to train new recruits.
And getting new recruits is easy for WoB. Old, religious Comstar had spent centuries indoctrinating hundreds of billions of people across the Inner Sphere. The advanced worlds of the Inner Sphere might scoff at Old Comstar's mystical nonsense, but Comstar personnel were often the only educators on backwater Inner Sphere worlds, like the Davion Skid Row planets. So, for about 2 centuries, Comstar taught and educated these people reading, writing, math, and toaster worship. When WoB picked up the mystic/religious mantle that Comstar had cast off, it had a vast pool of people sympathetic to its beliefs. (No, they weren't all ranting religious nuts, but they were sympathetic. That's good enough for recruiting efforts.) Once WoB had the new militia recruits, it had plenty of professional soldiers (ex-ComGuard) to train these recruits. Out of an Inner Sphere population of 5 trillion, WoB only needed thousands of personnel sympathetic to its cause and qualified for militia recruitment. That's not a tall order.
And WoB's militia expansion - which likely stopped at well under 100 mech regiments - is not exceptional. The US went from 175,000 Army personnel in 1940 to 1,400,000 in 1941, an 8-fold expansion in 1 year. WoB's militia expansion is probably under 8x and took 15 years. WoB's militia expansion is likely comparable to, or less impressive than, ComGuard recovery between 3052 and 3067.
There are also other WoB personnel that shouldn't be overlooked. Hundreds of millions of Comstar employees in the FWL (all the mundane workers in the Comstar corporate empire: mail carriers, telecommunications workers, etc.) just went into the office one day and found out that they were now employed by WoB, not Comstar. What's a telephone operator care about the politics of his board of directors? He cares about his pension and paycheck.
The ranting religious nuts are a relatively small fraction of WoB. Unfortunately, that small fraction is in several key places, especially the leadership. This results in the split behavior seen in the Dawn of the Jihad: first, WoB was steadily expanding its "Word of Blake Protectorate" in the Chaos March with the avowed intent of doing good deeds for the area. That's an activity that takes a lot of militia manpower, and requires the manpower to be fairly supportive of the avowed plan. (Obviously, if WoB said, "We're going to conquer the Chaos March and build an empire of toaster worship!" it'd have morale problems with its troops.) On the other hand, the nuclear strikes and orbital bombardment raids that occurred after the failure of the New Star League are something that can be accomplished by a small group of nutters.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
12/02/05 02:54 PM
24.243.178.223
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Right again I forgot they have Terra...that is answer to everything...got it.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
12/02/05 03:15 PM
147.160.136.10
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Quote:
Right again I forgot they have Terra...that is answer to everything...got it.
Oh, Terra doesn't answer everything. WoB obviously went abroad to buy a lot of its mechs. But it's a perfect fit for its militia manpower needs. (Though WoB has a lot of other choices. Old Comstar influenced a lot of worlds.)
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Edited by Cray (12/02/05 03:23 PM)
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Karagin
12/02/05 08:08 PM
24.243.178.223
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Now you change your tune, which is it then, if they don't hold Terra then they can't pull of their attacks, but if they do it gives them all that they need.
One way or the other Cray, you can't have it both ways.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
12/02/05 08:58 PM
68.200.110.190
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Quote:
Now you change your tune, which is it then, if they don't hold Terra then they can't pull of their attacks, but if they do it gives them all that they need.
One way or the other Cray, you can't have it both ways.
1) Heh. Just a point of logic. Re-read your first statement. The two options you gave are not mutually exclusive.  If a planet is so important to a military operation that the operation couldn't be launched without the planet, then the planet could (in fact) be the source of everything that the military operation needs, yes?
2) But I think you've misread something in my prior arguments. What you stated doesn't line up with what I'm trying to say. Terra is certainly a damned useful resource for WoB. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that without Terra, the Jihad wouldn't be feasible. But it's not the only resource for WoB. You've got TR:Phoenix, TR:3067, DotJ, and FM:Comstar, right? So you should know that WoB has been buying mechs off the open market, getting funds from the FWL, and has access to supporters across the Inner Sphere.
If I've given the impression that I was saying Terra MUST BE the be-all, end-all source for all things WoB, I apologize. I didn't mean to. It's definitely useful, probably critical, but WoB certainly has other resources to supplement it.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Edited by Cray (12/02/05 09:13 PM)
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Karagin
12/03/05 12:58 AM
24.243.178.223
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Now you are changing your past statements both here and on Heavy Metal. One second you are telling us that Terra is their golden egg, and now you are saying it's just a small factor in their chicken farm. That is a major reversal for you, why are you now after how many years of telling me that their having Terra is the key to all they can do, do now change your postion?
The MONEY from the FWL isn't going to be enough to do everything that is claimed the WoB is doing yet that seems to be missed. But I guess following the cost issue of mechs isn't something the WoB has to do. Same with all the other logistical cost issues that go with funding and taking care of an army, even an uber army.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
12/03/05 02:05 AM
68.200.110.190
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Quote:
Now you are changing your past statements both here and on Heavy Metal. One second you are telling us that Terra is their golden egg, and now you are saying it's just a small factor in their chicken farm.
How you get the impression that I mean, "Terra's a small factor" when I just said, "Terra is certainly a damned useful resource for WoB. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that without Terra, the Jihad wouldn't be feasible," eludes me.
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The MONEY from the FWL isn't going to be enough to do everything that is claimed the WoB is doing yet that seems to be missed.
What a selective memory you have. I'm always willing to talk costs and economics. We've done this before. Maybe you'll remember my post from April 13th, 2005:
"For example, say WoB bought 50 regiments of battlemechs a year between 3059 and 3067, an 8-year period. Say the battlemechs are 25 million CB each - WoB is building Daishis. This constitutes pretty much a worst case scenario for seeing how badly WoB finances will be strained. Total cost: a mind-boggling 108 billion C-bills. Wowie zowie.
Now, let's say WoB invokes some of its dark magic, resurrects the IRS, and says, "Squeeze taxes from these six billion wealthy Terrans. Let them pay for our conquest of the universe." The IRS says, "Yes, mahster," in a creepy toady voice and goes to work.
For each of those years, the IRS punishes each and every Terran with a brutal and crushing "WoB militia tax" of 22.5 C-bills, the equivalent of $67.50 (USD 1999). Noting the Lyrans are pulling in about 10,000 Kroner a head in 3067, we can safely guess the average Terran is pulling in about 10,000 CB. Even if it's half that, 22.5CB is not going to break the bank for the average Terran."
Later in the thread that spawned the preceding quotes, you wanted to know the price of supporting efforts, like dropships, food, and REMF salaries and such. Not a problem: based on examples of real life militaries, procurement typically fills about 20% of the military budget, so the entire military budget is about 5x that spent on procurement.
With WoB embezzling about 15% of the federal budget of the FWL (pop 700 billion, per capita annual income about 8000 CB, federal taxes about 20% of GDP), there's NEVER going to be a shortage of cash for WoB.
In fact, if you pay attention to population numbers and tax bases, you'd realize what the writers do: BT militaries are far too small for the scope of the universe. Despite lengthy debates involving those numbers, the writers try to keep them out of finished books. They all know that BT militaries are inexcusably SMALL for the taxbases.
But if you don't like my numbers, put a price tag on WoB's military, Karagin. This an opportunity for you to put a nail in the Jihad's coffin and there's plenty of hard numbers to settle this moment - the FWL's population, Terra's population, per capita incomes, tax rates, mech costs, military unit costs - all covered in published BT books. I want to see your hard number for the cost of 50 or even 100 mech regiments and all the WoB warships. Include every REMF and military base that you like. Name the price of the militia. The ball's in your court - show me the numbers that you think are so unachievable for WoB.
And, hopefully, we can settle this rather than having you weasel out (again) with "It's not a matter of doing the math or not..."
Yes, it is a matter of doing the math, and all the needed numbers are available. So let's settle this. Name WoB's militia's price, Karagin.
Edited by Cray (12/03/05 02:37 AM)
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Karagin
12/03/05 12:27 PM
24.243.178.223
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Cray you never talk about anything you talk down to those who don't buy the Jihad and it's storyline.
I am not weasling out of anything Cray and again you are turning things into something they are not. Why is it that when pressed about the issue and unrealistic aspects of the Jihad do those that support it turn it into a personal issue or try to personnelly insult the folks who are trying to show that it just doesn't work?
You state time and again that they have to have Terra to do all they do, yet now you change your stance and then try to turn this into a personal war or issue between you and me, sorry Cray it's not.
If you want to disucss this without the personel attacks or comments then we can if not then please step out of the topic and let's end this on friendly note.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
12/03/05 01:15 PM
68.200.110.190
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I apologize for talking down to you in the last post, Karagin, but I was irritated when you claimed I forgot the monetary issue of WoB when you know I'm always happy to spew numbers. I'll avoid the ad hominem arguments if you do.
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I am not weasling out of anything Cray
Cool. So, what are the cost numbers you say make WoB's rise unrealistic?
Quote:
You state time and again that they have to have Terra to do all they do , yet now you change your stance
Karagin, I'm not changing my stance. It looks like you've just missed half my argument until now. My ENTIRE point about Terra is that it can deliver most or all of what WoB needs but since (as you well know) WoB has additional resources (like the FWL), WoB should have absolutely no problem meeting its manpower, monetary, or industrial needs. That's the whole argument I'm trying to get across. You're welcome to quote and review any of my posts that you think say otherwise.
Now, I'd also be happy to show you how the WoB militia is also very cheap compared to WoB's monetary resources, but to do that, I'd need to see your cost estimates on WoB.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Edited by Cray (12/03/05 01:16 PM)
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Auren_Shiro
12/03/05 07:03 PM
65.96.9.70
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Meh. For the numbers, I can see how they can have it... but that won't change the fact that the Jihad story-line sucks, and if Mechassault 2 is part of the Jihad. I hate it oh so more.
Need...more...Nevcrack...
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Karagin
12/03/05 07:10 PM
24.243.178.223
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Yes Cray you are. You state again right here that Terra gives them everything they need, yet before you say it doesn't. Please make up your mind.
My cost of the WoB is based of the cost of any mech or vehicle, the ammo needed to field, the cost of the techs to keep it running, the cost of the food to feed them and the pilots and crews...add to this the cost of the ships and fighters and their crews and techs etc...all adds up to a lot more money then the WoB would have, yet they seem to have everything because you keep trying to claim they hold Terra.
So which is it Cray? Either they have money without the need of Terra or they don't have all the money and Terra has been written in as their golden goose no matter that the facts of cost of all related issues fails to support this.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
12/03/05 07:11 PM
24.243.178.223
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Yes Mechassault is a part of the Jihad related storyline.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
12/03/05 07:24 PM
68.200.110.190
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Quote:
Meh. For the numbers, I can see how they can have it... but that won't change the fact that the Jihad story-line sucks, and if Mechassault 2 is part of the Jihad. I hate it oh so more.
I can't disagree with that. YMMV with any plot line.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Cray
12/03/05 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Yes Mechassault is a part of the Jihad related storyline.
A non-canon part. The video games are never canon until they get into a published SB.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Auren_Shiro
12/03/05 07:41 PM
65.96.9.70
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Well... I suppose, Natasha Kerensky should be dead, but hey! She's in the Dragoons and doing just fine, in 3060 at least, and I know she's a dead pilot by I guess(?) 3059 or so.
And lemme tell you. There's no better broken shit then WoB having an 8 legged running spider that's roughly 15 times bigger then an Atlas.
Or the thing that's like 30 times the size of a regular mech... which I've yet to figure out how this guy would take it to some other world to kick some ass with it, it's as big as a Union Dropship... and doesn't fly.
That's why I hate the Jihad and Word of Blake.
Need...more...Nevcrack...
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Cray
12/03/05 08:02 PM
68.200.110.190
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Quote:
My cost of the WoB is based of the cost of any mech or vehicle, the ammo needed to field, the cost of the techs to keep it running, the cost of the food to feed them and the pilots and crews...add to this the cost of the ships and fighters and their crews and techs etc...all adds up to a lot more money then the WoB would have
That statement is unsupported without some numbers. What's the insurmountable bill to build the WoB militia?
We both have the costs of mechs and vehicles, ammo, and rules for running BT military units. You ought to be able to post a nice, hard number with plenty of supporting information that can be reviewed by any reader.
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Yes Cray you are. You state again right here that Terra gives them everything they need, yet before you say it doesn't. Please make up your mind.
I think you misread the what I stated earlier, but your mind looks pretty made up about this. If anyone else wants to see which of us is correct about my statements about Terra, they have this whole thread to make up their own mind.
Edited by Cray (12/03/05 08:05 PM)
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Karagin
12/03/05 08:56 PM
24.243.178.223
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The cost is there for all to see, if you want me to post the price of a battlemech then here is one
Red Shift :2,942,400 C-Bills
So they buy a battalions worth of these and all the others that they will need and yet you claim that they can afford to keep this mech and all the others up and running, the techs feed, the pilots in good health, the infantry supported and supplied and still have money to fund a warship program as well as all the other little plans and plots...
I haven't misread anything, you state that they need Terra, have been doing so for several years now, then right here is this thread you say while it's improtant it's not needed since they have the FWL money. So again Cray which is it? If they don't need Terra then why did they waste time and effort and money and material taking it from ComStar to start with?
And you are correct, I have made up my mind on this issue, until a resonable and believable explanation is given that covers all the areas I have mention, which seem to be some of the same areas that have come up when other folks have pointed out the faults and flaws of the Jihad, then I have to give things a new look. But so far NOTHING has been done to address these and while your efforts are nice, they don't give us anything set in the BT universe, because you are taking reality and trying to feed it into BT.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
12/03/05 09:31 PM
68.200.110.190
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Quote:
The cost is there for all to see, if you want me to post the price of a battlemech then here is one
No, that's not what I wanted. I was interested in the total price of the WoB militia. Are we talking 1 billion CB? 1 trillion? Please, this is the hard number you can use to make your point.
Quote:
I haven't misread anything, you state that they need Terra, have been doing so for several years now, then right here is this thread you say while it's improtant it's not needed since they have the FWL money.
No, Karagin, that's not what I said. I never said "Terra isn't needed." If I did, quote the line where I did.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Edited by Cray (12/03/05 09:35 PM)
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Karagin
12/04/05 12:57 AM
24.243.178.223
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We are done Cray. You say you want to talk about this, yet when I post the info you want starting with the basic area that is the issue you aren't happy, then you have to keep at the personel level of things. You have stated that Terra wasn't the most important thing to the WoB here in this thread, as for pointing it out, it's easy enough to find, just read your thread from the last two to three days.
So thanks for your input but we are done with the thread now.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
12/04/05 01:27 AM
68.200.110.190
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Quote:
We are done Cray. You say you want to talk about this, yet when I post the info you want starting with the basic area
No, Karagin, you didn't post the information I wanted. I wanted your estimate for the WoB militia's total price. Certainly the price of one mech is a start, but it doesn't show that WoB is too expensive - remember how earlier in the thread I started with the price of one mech and showed that WoB's expansion was affordable?
So, what do you think the total price of the WoB militia is? 10 billion? 10 trillion CB?
Quote:
You have stated that Terra wasn't the most important thing to the WoB here in this thread, as for pointing it out, it's easy enough to find, just read your thread from the last two to three days.
That's the problem. When I read my posts, I don't see what you do. I'll list everything I posted on Terra in this thread and, please, point out where I contradicted myself on the value of Terra.
My very first comment on Terran resources in this thread (Dec 1, 4:13pm) outright stated that WoB had several sources of wealth, so I established in the beginning of this thread that Terra was not alone. However, I never said Terra was anything other than important to WoB. In fact, the underlined portion shows that I thought Terra could meet the resource needs of WoB - a critical role to fill.
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However played out Terran and Martian mines are in the 3060s, there's still more than enough to meet the trivial needs of the WoB militia. Hell, WoB can probably get the tonnage of materials it needs from landfills.
Also note that WoB is buying off the open Inner Sphere market, meaning many of the WoB mechs aren't built with Terran resources.
Then I said:
Quote:
For all the resources that WoB needs to build even an AFFC-sized military, it could be stuck on a small, metal-poor planet. Terra is overkill for WoB.
Which still doesn't say "Terra isn't the most important thing for WoB." Next, I said:
Quote:
In reality, WoB's militia is probably smaller and has an average tonnage below 100, so the required tonnage of materials is less than a piddly 1 million tons, and thus dwarfed by the output of a resource-starved future Terra. (Though Terra manages to stay pretty wealthy - its 6 billion people have a sweet lifestyle.)
Again, still nothing to support your claim. This next quote alludes to the fact that at "a minimum" WoB has Terra for manpower needs, but nothing about denying Terra's importance.
Quote:
As yet another point on why manpower is a non-issue, WoB has access to a minimum of 40x the US's WW2-era manpower and only needs about 1% of the personnel that the US put in uniform between 1940 and 1945.
This next quote set you off, I think, but it still doesn't claim that Terra is anything but very important to WoB (note the underlined portion):
Quote:
Oh, Terra doesn't answer everything. WoB obviously went abroad to buy a lot of its mechs. But it's a perfect fit for its militia manpower needs. (Though WoB has a lot of other choices. Old Comstar influenced a lot of worlds.)
And here I was trying to explain my position on Terra to you but, again, there's nothing in here that says Terra is unimportant to WoB:
Quote:
Terra is certainly a damned useful resource for WoB. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that without Terra, the Jihad wouldn't be feasible. But it's not the only resource for WoB. You've got TR:Phoenix, TR:3067, DotJ, and FM:Comstar, right? So you should know that WoB has been buying mechs off the open market, getting funds from the FWL, and has access to supporters across the Inner Sphere.
If I've given the impression that I was saying Terra MUST BE the be-all, end-all source for all things WoB, I apologize. I didn't mean to. It's definitely useful, probably critical, but WoB certainly has other resources to supplement it.
In the next post, I just sort of repeated my previous post. Again, there's nothing in here that says Terra's a small factor.
Quote:
How you get the impression that I mean, "Terra's a small factor" when I just said, "Terra is certainly a damned useful resource for WoB. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that without Terra, the Jihad wouldn't be feasible," eludes me.
Then I tried to explain myself in a different fashion. Once again, nothing in this quote says that Terra is a small factor:
Quote:
My ENTIRE point about Terra is that it can deliver most or all of what WoB needs but since (as you well know) WoB has additional resources (like the FWL), WoB should have absolutely no problem meeting its manpower, monetary, or industrial needs. That's the whole argument I'm trying to get across. You're welcome to quote and review any of my posts that you think say otherwise.
So, which of those quotes says that Terra is a small factor? Did I miss any of my quotes about Terra?
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Cray
12/04/05 01:30 AM
68.200.110.190
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Quote:
And lemme tell you. There's no better broken shit then WoB having an 8 legged running spider that's roughly 15 times bigger then an Atlas.
Um...WoB doesn't have that. That's the sort of thing that makes the video games so utterly non-canon.
Quote:
Or the thing that's like 30 times the size of a regular mech... which I've yet to figure out how this guy would take it to some other world to kick some ass with it, it's as big as a Union Dropship... and doesn't fly.
You're correct, that doesn't fly. WoB doesn't have anything like that. The computer game writers who came up with that shit were smoking crack. The "real" WoB in Battletech has nothing like that.
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That's why I hate the Jihad and Word of Blake.
Good news: WoB and the Jihad have nothing like those abominations in Battletech. They might in the video game, but the video game is, at best, only vaguely related to the published plot line.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Auren_Shiro
12/04/05 02:07 AM
65.96.9.70
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If it was that big, I'd like to know how 4 machine-guns (Still the most broken weapon in all of BT) could kill it.
In anycase, They were fun in the arcadey shooter sense, but nothing more.
Still, I hate nuclear tantrums.
Need...more...Nevcrack...
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Karagin
12/04/05 02:22 AM
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As I said Cray we are done with this. Move on to something else.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Cray
12/04/05 09:52 AM
68.200.110.190
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Quote:
If it was that big, I'd like to know how 4 machine-guns (Still the most broken weapon in all of BT) could kill it.
Those giants are not in Battletech, just the computer game.
Incidentally, how are MGs broken in the boardgame? They're very ineffective weapons with only a range of 3 and 2 points of damage. You're usually much better off getting a medium laser for the tonnage of 1 MG and its ammo (unless you wanted a dedicated infantry killing weapon).
Quote:
Still, I hate nuclear tantrums.
That's understandable. Worse, unlike giant spider mechs, the nuclear tantrums are in the canon Jihad.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Cray
12/04/05 09:53 AM
68.200.110.190
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Quote:
As I said Cray we are done with this. Move on to something else.
We're done but you want the last word?
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Auren_Shiro
12/04/05 01:34 PM
65.96.9.70
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Best Heat-Damage-Tonnage-Ammo Ratio, EVER for the Mguns...
As for diwnlding resources in BT. I laugh at your stupidity of saying that the IS will run out of resources. Remember, the maps you get show only inhabitated systems, not the uninhabited systems.
Need...more...Nevcrack...
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Cray
12/04/05 02:38 PM
68.200.110.190
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Quote:
Best Heat-Damage-Tonnage-Ammo Ratio, EVER for the Mguns...
You're not talking about the boardgame, are you? MGs might have a decent balance of weight, heat, etc., but their range of 3 hexes makes them utterly useless in open combat.
For example, I just ran a boardgame battle two weekends ago with 10 MGs in play (4 PHX-1 Phoenix Hawks, 1 STG-3R Stinger) and the MGs only delivered 8 points of damage throughout the battle. All the damage was done with lasers and LRMs (on the merc side) and lasers and PPCs (on the pirate side). But go figure: most of the combat occurred at 3-8 hexes range (a good L1 brawl) where MGs either can't reach or have hideous target numbers. It's a pretty sad weapon that has +4 range modifier at 3 hexes...
In fact, the MGs were so useless in battle that the merc player spent some of his salvage awards to rip out all of the MGs from his 'Hawks and replaced them with 2 heat sinks per mech (converting to the PHX-1D variant).
Quote:
As for diwnlding resources in BT. I laugh at your stupidity of saying that the IS will run out of resources. Remember, the maps you get show only inhabitated systems, not the uninhabited systems.
Who are you addressing? I never said the IS will run out of resources. In fact, I've pointed that asteroid mining in Sol alone would meet all of the IS's resource needs (my post on Dec 1st), let alone all the millions of the other systems in the Inner Sphere.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Edited by Cray (12/04/05 02:41 PM)
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