A way to keep birds out of wingstube engines

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His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
03/31/09 08:04 PM
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OK, you are newtype's identical twin, you wont listen to what you're told. What part of, "I did not start the thread that I was told no one wants to hear about it", are you incapable of understanding?




Then why would you say nobody would want to see vehicles if there is no post or thread about it?




I said that no one wanted to hear it, not that there where no threads about them. I think that vehicles, even with the biased rules, there better than mechs when numbers of light vehicles are used. People where happy when I said that I would not post anymore of my vehicle designs.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Prince_of_Darkness
03/31/09 09:49 PM
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Quote:

I said that no one wanted to hear it, not that there where no threads about them. I think that vehicles, even with the biased rules, there better than mechs when numbers of light vehicles are used. People where happy when I said that I would not post anymore of my vehicle designs.




Again...

Nobody said anything about not wanting to see any more vehicles, and they especially did not get angry about them. All I think happened was that Dester gave you some constructive criticism, and you took it completely out of context, now only using it as a reason to get angry at the others here.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
04/01/09 03:36 PM
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Oh it was criticism but I saw nothing constructive about it. All I asked for was for an "optional rule" not to be used, and I was attacked for it, because it only exists to try to throw a unbalanced game towards vehicles even more overbalanced ageist them. I still think its wrong. A one ton weapon can destroy any vehicle of any weight with just one shot,.and you don't think that is going WAY over board!?! Yes I can understand that a 14 ton AC20 or a 15 ton GR having a very small chance of getting a one shot one kill, but a 1 ton weapon getting a 100% chance at a one shot one kill is going WAY overboard.

To be fair it should be a lot easier to hit a 9 to 10 meter high mech than a 2 to 3 meter high vehicle, also since mechs have a lot of joints that cant be armored because of the need of free movement it should be a lot easier to give a mech a critical hit. But that much realism would destroy the fun of playing with giant battlemechs.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Fang
04/06/09 11:03 AM
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Those catch nets you see popping up for the aircraft on an aircraft carrier are a bit different than what you are suggesting. If a jet were to collide with one of those nets going full bore as in normal flight, no way that net could stop that plane. those jets have to drasticly reduce their speed when landing in order for the nets to be effective. And there have been times that the nets were not as the craft was just moving too fast.The point being missed here is that wire or nets or made up spring armor are not feasible to place on an aircraft engine. What does work is a well trained crew who can take care of the passengers and pilot the craft to a safe landing. Airstrips that tend to have a lot of water fowl or other birds around usually deploy some sort of noise cannon or other device to deter the birds from the runway. Problem is that the birds get used to them. Either way, that's a big negatory on the elastic nets over the engines. And the chicken wire. And the make believe never in a million years spring armor. Now, if you want to make an attempt for a Darwin award and try it out yourself, go ahead. And be sure to have it recorded so that your next of kin can post it on the internet for us to enjoy and remember.
One by one, the rabbits are stealing my sanity.....
Prince_of_Darkness
04/10/09 09:19 PM
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Oh it was criticism but I saw nothing constructive about it. All I asked for was for an "optional rule" not to be used, and I was attacked for it, because it only exists to try to throw a unbalanced game towards vehicles even more overbalanced ageist them. I still think its wrong. A one ton weapon can destroy any vehicle of any weight with just one shot,.and you don't think that is going WAY over board!?! Yes I can understand that a 14 ton AC20 or a 15 ton GR having a very small chance of getting a one shot one kill, but a 1 ton weapon getting a 100% chance at a one shot one kill is going WAY overboard.

To be fair it should be a lot easier to hit a 9 to 10 meter high mech than a 2 to 3 meter high vehicle, also since mechs have a lot of joints that cant be armored because of the need of free movement it should be a lot easier to give a mech a critical hit. But that much realism would destroy the fun of playing with giant battlemechs.




What?

I've looked back at the old posts; I don't see anything you say at all. The worst lashing Dester ever gave you was on house rules (Here), and considering just how well he puts it and how correct they are you really cannot say anything against it.

The rest of your argument, I really don't know what the hell. I mean, is there a thread on this site that explains it? I thought you were talking about some criticism on a damn tank, and I find all of this?
Newtype
04/11/09 03:45 PM
207.160.205.13

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The only reason why spider silk elastic nets aren't used to protect engines is because the FAA doesn't want to give Ralph Nader a reason for more regulations (the government doesn't want Nader to get credit because when he gets credit he looks really credible and Dems & Repubs look irresponsible).
GiovanniBlasini
04/11/09 04:28 PM
64.183.4.46

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The only reason why spider silk elastic nets aren't used to protect engines is because the FAA doesn't want to give Ralph Nader a reason for more regulations (the government doesn't want Nader to get credit because when he gets credit he looks really credible and Dems & Repubs look irresponsible).




Or, more likely, because they wouldn't work.
Member of the Pundit Caste
"Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that." -- Col. Saul Tigh, BSG2003
GundamMerc
04/15/09 09:33 AM
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a more practical way is to hook up a laser (the one currently in use to defend against rocket attacks) and upgrade the sensor suite and computer targeting system to include state of the art computer systems

unfortunately, this is only practical if you have infinite amounts of cash and high tech computers

other than that, i dont see a way to protect the plane except to have daimond engine blades and such, and i know that wont happen
CrayModerator
04/15/09 04:11 PM
97.97.245.98

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a more practical way is to hook up a laser (the one currently in use to defend against rocket attacks) and upgrade the sensor suite and computer targeting system to include state of the art computer systems




You mean the USAF's Airborne Laser, which fills the interior of a 747 and has a mammoth nose-mounted turret? That might be a bit bulky for the average airliner even if it was affordable.

Quote:

other than that, i dont see a way to protect the plane except to have daimond engine blades and such, and i know that wont happen




Give it a few more decades - diamond synthesis really advanced in the 1990s. However, while diamond blades would be attractive for turbines given suitable oxidation protection (diamond - carbon - is quite flammable) because of its high temperature nature and extreme thermal conductivity, it is also quite brittle. A duck plowing through the engine would shatter diamond blades like any other high strength industrial ceramic (nearly diamond-hard silicon carbide, for example, has plenty of brittleness problems).
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
GundamMerc
04/16/09 06:32 AM
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Quote:

Quote:

a more practical way is to hook up a laser (the one currently in use to defend against rocket attacks) and upgrade the sensor suite and computer targeting system to include state of the art computer systems




You mean the USAF's Airborne Laser, which fills the interior of a 747 and has a mammoth nose-mounted turret? That might be a bit bulky for the average airliner even if it was affordable.

Quote:

other than that, i dont see a way to protect the plane except to have daimond engine blades and such, and i know that wont happen




Give it a few more decades - diamond synthesis really advanced in the 1990s. However, while diamond blades would be attractive for turbines given suitable oxidation protection (diamond - carbon - is quite flammable) because of its high temperature nature and extreme thermal conductivity, it is also quite brittle. A duck plowing through the engine would shatter diamond blades like any other high strength industrial ceramic (nearly diamond-hard silicon carbide, for example, has plenty of brittleness problems).




you forgot my part on having infinite amounts of money for the laser, which means you can build a smaller laser with the same power (after months and years of research)
Prince_of_Darkness
04/16/09 07:10 AM
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you forgot my part on having infinite amounts of money for the laser, which means you can build a smaller laser with the same power (after months and years of research)




GundamMerc
04/17/09 06:28 AM
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what are you trying to say prince of darkness
Prince_of_Darkness
04/17/09 07:03 AM
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what are you trying to say prince of darkness




*cough* Ahem:

Quote:

you forgot my part on having infinite amounts of money for the laser, which means you can build a smaller laser with the same power (after months and years of research)




So, yeah...what?


Edited by Prince_of_Darkness (04/17/09 09:07 AM)
GundamMerc
04/21/09 06:33 AM
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still have no clue as to what your trying to say
Prince_of_Darkness
04/21/09 07:03 AM
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still have no clue as to what your trying to say




It's simple. You are not making any sense.
GundamMerc
04/22/09 06:27 AM
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im trying to say with infinite resources you could overcome these obstacles quickly, but obviously thats impossible (unless people worked for nothing, and we KNOW that wont happen), so we are stuck with the tried and true take 10 years to research, 10 years to test, then wait 10 years for approval

If you dont understand what im trying to say, im not going to waste my time explaining the concept of infinite and basic economics with you.
Does anyone understand what im trying to explain?
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Prince_of_Darkness
04/22/09 09:47 AM
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Wow. All you have been doing is getting progressively dumber. So, again:

Quote:

It's simple. You are not making any sense.


GiovanniBlasini
04/22/09 02:50 PM
64.183.4.46

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im trying to say with infinite resources you could overcome these obstacles quickly, but obviously thats impossible (unless people worked for nothing, and we KNOW that wont happen), so we are stuck with the tried and true take 10 years to research, 10 years to test, then wait 10 years for approval

If you dont understand what im trying to say, im not going to waste my time explaining the concept of infinite and basic economics with you.




Oh, I understand what you're trying to say. You're still wrong, but I understand what you're trying to say.
Member of the Pundit Caste
"Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that." -- Col. Saul Tigh, BSG2003
GundamMerc
04/22/09 09:40 PM
66.59.123.60

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can you explain how im wrong, because at least you will give me something reasonable instead of "it doesnt make sense [blank]"


great, now im on a rant, and i thought i no longer needed the pills for that *groans in despair*
GiovanniBlasini
04/23/09 12:07 PM
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can you explain how im wrong, because at least you will give me something reasonable instead of "it doesnt make sense [blank]"




Well, we could start with the infinite energy requirement, I suppose, which is patently impossible.
Member of the Pundit Caste
"Which side are we on? We're on the side of the demons, Chief. We're evil men in the gardens of paradise, sent by the forces of death to spread devastation and destruction wherever we go. I'm surprised you didn't know that." -- Col. Saul Tigh, BSG2003
CrayModerator
04/23/09 12:13 PM
147.160.136.10

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Quote:

can you explain how im wrong, because at least you will give me something reasonable instead of "it doesnt make sense [blank]"




Well, we could start with the infinite energy requirement, I suppose, which is patently impossible.




There's also the point that infinite resources doesn't translate to a workable piece of hardware. Sometimes a fire hose of money and a git-er-done spirit gives you a remarkable success, like the Manhattan and Apollo projects. But for every success, there's usually a string of costly failures and dead ends. The history of US Cold War military tech development is littered with failures that were the subject of no-holds funding and endless resources for years.

When the engineering challenges just don't want to be solved, they won't get solved, and then all your hard effort just ends in finger pointing and Congressional investigations.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
GundamMerc
04/24/09 06:30 AM
216.48.130.13

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that makes sense. now at least i have an answer that is based on logic and not on "That doesnt make sense because it doesnt." Thank you

and now on to find my medicine, i know i put it somewhere around here
Zandel_Corrin
04/26/09 08:28 PM
123.2.140.247

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I want to hear it Donkey.... I like vehicles.... at least ones not made by newtype.
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Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
04/26/09 11:49 PM
24.5.141.133

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Donkey, most of your designs have a very munchkin factor to them.




I think that I will pass on being attacked for my vehicles designs. Thanks but no thanks. I will keep my "munchkin" designs to my self.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
GundamMerc
04/27/09 06:33 AM
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thats a shame, i wanted to hear them too
Newtype
04/27/09 09:16 AM
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An elastic net that can stop a several ton plane can stop a bird. Furthermore an elastic net made out of spider silk is 5 times stronger than steel so it should be able to catch & stop a bird.
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Edited by Newtype (04/27/09 09:19 AM)
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
04/28/09 01:57 AM
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thats a shame, i wanted to hear them too




OK http://www.sarna.net/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/154719/an/0/page/0/gonew/1#UNREAD
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Fang
04/28/09 02:07 PM
75.181.159.157

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Newtype, no, it won't. not at the speeds traveled to keep a plane in flight. The idea will not work. The reasons have been explained. You refuse to acknowledge them. And this is the last I will post on this matter as your idiocy gives me migraines.
One by one, the rabbits are stealing my sanity.....
GundamMerc
04/30/09 06:56 AM
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Lets not think of it as the bird running into the plane, but rather as the plane running into the bird. Since the plane is moving faster it is it running into the bird at several hundred, if not a thousand mph. Do you know what kind of forces that entails? I think not.

1. net thickness- you would have to have a net thick enough to stop the bird AND not cut it in half. On the other hand it cant be too thick that it will cause overt amounts of drag, which means it has to be really thin.

2. friction- Depending on the speed said aircraft is going to fly at, air friction will be causing some problems (mostly in aircraft that can fly at supersonic speeds for a long period of time, like the F-22 Raptor), especially since the net will create drag, causing friction induced heat (which is only a problem at supersonic speeds) this same drag will slow the plane down

3. weight- airplanes are made to be as light as safely possible so that they can actually fly. by adding weight, you are reducing safety to the passengers and crew. This is if the net adds significant weight to the plane

4.harmonics- if the net causes too much vibration, this can be transeferred to the wings and engine mounts, which has been known to cause fatal crashes.

5.suction of engines- how would you keep it from being sucked in the engines? how much drag will the mounts for the net cause?

6.cost of each net- Is it economically feasible to equip every single jet aircraft (as you could not attatch this to a prop airplane)? Considering how much time and labor merely collecting enough spider silk to make a net, let alone actually making it, it would cost billions, maybe even trillions to equip every jet.

7. Fuel economy- the increase in drag and weight will cause the plane to burn fuel, which is bad for 2 reasons. 1: It increases the amount of pollutants coming from aircraft. 2: It causes more fuel to be burnt, which means an increase in the amount money spent on fuel. This would cause the airlines to have to charge more per flight, decreasing the amount of people who fly.

If anyone can think of any other reasons feel free to post them.


Edited by GundamMerc (04/30/09 08:19 AM)
CrayModerator
04/30/09 07:24 AM
147.160.136.10

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If anyone can think of any other reasons feel free to post them.




Gundam, nothing personal is meant by this but...don't. More posting is just more material for HeroChip to latch onto and prolong a painful and awkward thread.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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