MechWarrior personal weapons

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LAMdriver
06/16/09 01:28 AM
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Ok here are a couple of questions that I have and i would like some answers too

1. Is there a book or suppliment out there that shows artwork and/or more weapons for PC's in the Mechwarrior universe? I like a visual repersentation of what characters are armed with and would like the info?

2. Some of the wepons just don't make sense to me. For example, the Zeus Heavy rifle sounds alot like a Barret .50 BMG sniper rifle. The range for this weapon should be more at the top end of ballistic weaponry (the current distance record with this weapon is over 2 miles in Afghanistan by Canadian SpecForces). Another example is the Federated Long rifle. A 10 shot rifle in the 3060's. That is like soliders of today using Muskets from the War of Northern Aggression.

If anyone else has any comments about this, lets hear it.

Thanks
" The object of war is not to die for your country. It's to make some other bastard die for his!"--Patton

""War is Hell. Combat is a motherfucker."---General Tommy Franks
CrayModerator
06/16/09 05:32 AM
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Quote:

Ok here are a couple of questions that I have and i would like some answers too

1. Is there a book or suppliment out there that shows artwork and/or more weapons for PC's in the Mechwarrior universe? I like a visual repersentation of what characters are armed with and would like the info?




"Lostech" comes to mind.

Quote:

2. Some of the wepons just don't make sense to me. For example, the Zeus Heavy rifle sounds alot like a Barret .50 BMG sniper rifle.




As an aside, it's actually meant to be like something in the 7-10mm caliber range, versus the 5-6mm of most infantry rifles.

Quote:

The range for this weapon should be more at the top end of ballistic weaponry (the current distance record with this weapon is over 2 miles in Afghanistan by Canadian SpecForces).




Did you also notice that most vehicle-mounted weapons have vastly shorter ranges than personal weapons and real world weapons? A 155mm AC/20 has a range of 270 meters under normal rules (vs. 420m for the Zeus), while 155mm cannons in the real world have ranges of 20 miles or more. Yet - get this - the standard AC/20 has a meteoric muzzle velocity of 6,000 to 10,000 meters per second (fast enough to reach orbit), versus the high end of modern tank cannons (1700m/s).

And the 1-ton medium laser has a range (with standard rules) of 270 meters, too, while a standard laser rifle has a range of 1100m.

One might start to think that some compromises have been made in the name of producing a playable game rather than rigidly mimicking reality.

Quote:

Another example is the Federated Long rifle. A 10 shot rifle in the 3060's. That is like soliders of today using Muskets from the War of Northern Aggression.




The Federated Long Rifle is a semi-automatic sniper/squad marksman's rifle, akin to the real M110 (10 or 20rnd clips), PSG 1 (5 or 20 round clips), M21 (5, 10, or 20 round clips), M40 (5 rounds only), etc. Not everyone in the universe uses a 60-round clip to spray-n-pray like Rambo.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
06/16/09 08:08 AM
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Quote:

while 155mm cannons in the real world have ranges of 20 miles or more.


When you said that I did not believe it because a WWII 16 inch naval gun, 406mm, had a range of about 25 miles. From what I have found is that you are exaggerating by only a little bit. From what I have found is that the maximum range of a 155 Artillery gun is 30km or 18 miles. There is a 155 Artillery gun and ammo that is under development that would have a planed maximum range of 47km or just under 30 miles.

Quote:

Quote:

2. Some of the wepons just don't make sense to me. For example, the Zeus Heavy rifle sounds alot like a Barret .50 BMG sniper rifle.




As an aside, it's actually meant to be like something in the 7-10mm caliber range, versus the 5-6mm of most infantry rifles.




From what I remember the Zeus Heavy rifle is a .50 caliber rifle.

The weapons that I like is the Zeus Heavy rifle and *I don't remember the name but the laser pistol that uses one power unit with the ?30 unit power clip.*

Of course having an armored infantrymen with clan power armor as the head of my personal guard is helpful.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

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But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
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CrayModerator
06/16/09 08:17 AM
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Quote:

Quote:

while 155mm cannons in the real world have ranges of 20 miles or more.


When you said that I did not believe it because a WWII 16 inch naval gun, 406mm, had a range of about 25 miles. From what I have found is that you are exaggerating by only a little bit. From what I have found is that the maximum range of a 155 Artillery gun is 30km or 18 miles. There is a 155 Artillery gun and ammo that is under development that would have a planed maximum range of 47km or just under 30 miles.




Since 1982, the South Africans have had an operational 155mm artillery piece with an unassisted range of 39km, or 53km using shells with base bleed to reduce drag.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G5_howitzer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GC-45_howitzer

It's interesting what range enhancement a few tricks in shell aerodynamics can achieve.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
06/16/09 08:50 AM
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Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

while 155mm cannons in the real world have ranges of 20 miles or more.


When you said that I did not believe it because a WWII 16 inch naval gun, 406mm, had a range of about 25 miles. From what I have found is that you are exaggerating by only a little bit. From what I have found is that the maximum range of a 155 Artillery gun is 30km or 18 miles. There is a 155 Artillery gun and ammo that is under development that would have a planed maximum range of 47km or just under 30 miles.




Since 1982, the South Africans have had an operational 155mm artillery piece with an unassisted range of 39km, or 53km using shells with base bleed to reduce drag.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G5_howitzer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GC-45_howitzer

It's interesting what range enhancement a few tricks in shell aerodynamics can achieve.




Your links say 30km standard, 39km with base bleed, the G5 says 50km with VLAP not 54km.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
CrayModerator
06/16/09 01:12 PM
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Quote:

Quote:

Since 1982, the South Africans have had an operational 155mm artillery piece with an unassisted range of 39km, or 53km using shells with base bleed to reduce drag.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G5_howitzer
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GC-45_howitzer

It's interesting what range enhancement a few tricks in shell aerodynamics can achieve.




Your links say 30km standard, 39km with base bleed, the G5 says 50km with VLAP not 54km.




Quoting the first website:

"It is mounted on a slightly-modified version of a towed chassis design by NORICUM, which also includes a small APU to allow it to dig itself in and move short distances at up to 16 km/h. Using the normal Extended Range, Full Bore ammunition the normal range is 39 km, which can be extended to about 53 km with the use of base bleed or rocket assisted rounds. It is regarded as one of the most potent artillery pieces on the modern battlefield."

Three points:

1) I said 53km, not 54km.
2) I never referenced velocity-enhanced long ranged artillery projectiles. Instead, I referenced base bleed for the 53km range.
3) You referenced the ranges (30/39/50km) of the G5 with a 45-caliber barrel; I used the ranges of the G5 with a 52-caliber barrel, the G5-2000.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
06/16/09 03:11 PM
24.6.150.175

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??? I wonder if PoD will allow me to drop the subject...
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Prince_of_Darkness
06/16/09 07:23 PM
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Unless you have any other questions, then of course.
LAMdriver
06/17/09 01:25 AM
64.147.209.78

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The Federated Long Rifle is a semi-automatic sniper/squad marksman's rifle, akin to the real M110 (10 or 20rnd clips), PSG 1 (5 or 20 round clips), M21 (5, 10, or 20 round clips), M40 (5 rounds only), etc. Not everyone in the universe uses a 60-round clip to spray-n-pray like Rambo.





Ok that makes a little more sense to me, but the Federated Long rifle still sounds like more of a M1 Granad or M14.

The ranges of all of these weapons sound a little underpowered, with the exception of laser weapons. Then it gets to be unrealistic.

For example, lets take my old friend the M16a2. A solider can deliver a round to a point target (single) and still be lethal out to 550 meters. Area targets can be hit out to 1200 meters. The US Army pop up target quilifying course has 4 300 meter targets to be engaged. The US Marines have targets out to 500 meters.

Of course with all of the RPG's that I have played, all of the ranges have been screwy.
" The object of war is not to die for your country. It's to make some other bastard die for his!"--Patton

""War is Hell. Combat is a motherfucker."---General Tommy Franks
LAMdriver
06/17/09 01:28 AM
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Oh and one more thing, the South African 155mm arty piece is called "the ravenger"...and looks cool as hell.
" The object of war is not to die for your country. It's to make some other bastard die for his!"--Patton

""War is Hell. Combat is a motherfucker."---General Tommy Franks
CrayModerator
06/17/09 05:12 AM
147.160.136.10

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Quote:

Of course with all of the RPG's that I have played, all of the ranges have been screwy.




And that's what you're seeing here.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
06/17/09 09:21 AM
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An English long bow archer was expected to hit a man sized target 10 out of 10 times at 700 yards. Most RPGs don't have long bows going out to that range. The funny thing is the first place that I learned about the English long bow men was in a RPG that explained why the long bow had such a long range.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Zandel_Corrin
06/17/09 04:33 PM
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That's true donkey... also note tho that the actual range of that weapon was more like 2500 yards when fired en mass as they were aiming to rain down shots on an area and not a single target.
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
06/17/09 06:17 PM
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I made an error it was 700 feet not yards. And that was arching the arrow.

http://www.teamultimedia.com/HRMH/History%20of%20Weapons/Welsh%20and%20English%20Longbow.html

The medieval English longbow had a draw-weight of 100-120 pounds and a practical range of around 250 yards.

There is no way an arrow will travel a mile and a half. A modern .22 long rifle round can reach 1.5 miles but there is no chance that it will hit anything.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Bob_Richter
06/17/09 08:16 PM
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Quote:

As an aside, it's actually meant to be like something in the 7-10mm caliber range, versus the 5-6mm of most infantry rifles.




The original description (TR3026) had it pegged as a .50BMG sniper rifle. Considering it as anything less is a more recent reinterpretation, favoring game stats and role over original intention/fluff.

It's worth noting that a lot of things changed between MW2 and MW3 where personal equipment was concerned, presumably because They Didn't Do The Research.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
Bob_Richter
06/17/09 08:19 PM
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Quote:

A modern .22 long rifle round can reach 1.5 miles but there is no chance that it will hit anything.




As my TSE (yes, that's traffic safety education. He was also a volunteer police officer) instructor was fond of saying, every bullet goes somewhere. It'll certainly hit something.

The chances of it hitting what you're aiming at, however, are negligible.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
Zandel_Corrin
06/17/09 09:27 PM
123.2.140.247

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Quote:

I made an error it was 700 feet not yards. And that was arching the arrow.

The medieval English longbow had a draw-weight of 100-120 pounds and a practical range of around 250 yards.

There is no way an arrow will travel a mile and a half. A modern .22 long rifle round can reach 1.5 miles but there is no chance that it will hit anything.




Got my metric and imperial conversions messed up again... 2500 FEET not yards...

The effective range with flat trajectory is around 250 - 300 METERS depending on the skill of the archer... that's killing range (modern bows with only half the power go up to 200 meters but have lighter arrows so not half the range like you'd expect)

And the volley range was closer to 700 meters not yards or feet..... tho they never really used that as well as then should have.... in most battles they were used only up to 300 meters to save ammo.
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
06/18/09 08:22 AM
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If you read the link I added it said that 250 yards or 750 feet is the maximum range not the effective range of the most powerful bow that was ever made in mass. From what I have seen no modern bow has matched it but there might be a specially designed bow that was built just to beat it.

Now the Ballista had a theoretical range of 500 yards of fire. In real use the Ballista never got that kind of range because of problems with the materials used in its constitution. The Ballista is a artillery version of a crossbow.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!


Edited by His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey (06/18/09 08:29 AM)
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
06/18/09 08:56 AM
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Searching for any weapon that is not fired by an explosive charge, I have not found anything that has any kind of range of 2500 feet, modern or in history. I know that a car was launched off an aircraft carrier by the aircraft catapult launcher, but I can't find how far it went. All I have seen is a comment about the car flying a 1/4 mile.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Zandel_Corrin
06/18/09 04:47 PM
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*roles eyes*

Just because you can't find it doesn't mean it isn't real....


That being said i've looked up the distances and found that i'm thinking of a different bow.... the current English longbow record is just short or 400 meters (379 point something)

The current Compound Flight bow record however is just over 1200 meters!

and the current Compound target bow record is just short of 800 meters.


My bad that 2500 feet was for the target shooting bows they use at the Olympics today.
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
06/18/09 07:52 PM
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At the Olympic they fire at 70m or 358 feet

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archery_at_the_2008_Summer_Olympics

Yes, a hand held flight bow has gone 1222.01m. but flight arrows are not intended to hit anything except the ground somewhere. In combat flight arrows are useless and we where talking about combat. A mechanical bow or crossbow has gone 2047m or 1.27 miles. I was not aware of flight artery before you mentioned it. And I did say
Quote:

there might be a specially designed bow that was built just to beat it


to which flight bows are specially designed.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Zandel_Corrin
06/18/09 08:07 PM
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too true... still 300 meters is a nice range for the english longbow....

that's a volley shot of course... wonder how deadly a crossbow bolt would be in a volley shot?

but that's getting a bit off topic so might just leave it at that.
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
06/18/09 09:00 PM
24.6.150.175

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This is on topic, bows are personal weapons and can be quite effective if your trying to kill someone with out making noise. Of course laser weapons are quite also.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!


Edited by His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey (06/18/09 11:21 PM)
LAMdriver
06/28/09 10:38 PM
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Well Donkey has a good point. Bows are a VERY effective weapons for silent kills. I know alot of current SpecForces use highy unorthadox weapons for silent kills.

For example, Spetnaz uses a throwing axe similar to a tomahawk. And just about all of the SpecForces uses knives.

Bows give two bonus for silent kills. One is range. The second one is most body armor is made of Kevlar or similar material. These mats difuse the kenitic energy of a bullet over a large area (the chest or back), but are not cut or puntcure resistant unless they have the plates in the armor. A needle or ice pick will puntcure body armor. An arrow head will do the same as a needle or icepick.

The only thing I don't know is how it would act with the ablitive (laser resistant) body armor that reign over the battlefield in the MechWarrior Univerise. I don't know what is even in it!?
" The object of war is not to die for your country. It's to make some other bastard die for his!"--Patton

""War is Hell. Combat is a motherfucker."---General Tommy Franks
Bob_Richter
06/30/09 05:57 PM
66.191.9.99

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Ablative body armors come in two types:
-Ablative body armor is just laser-reflective. It's no good for bows or knives or grenades or rifles. Unsurprisingly less than popular, given the expense
-Ablative/Flak body armor, which basically backs a lighter layer of laser-reflect with your typical antiballistic body armor. Basically good for whatever, but bows and knives do (IIRC) have their points in penetrating it.
-Bob (The Magnificent) Richter

Assertions made in this post are the humble opinion of Bob.
They are not necessarily statements of fact or decrees from God Himself, unless explicitly and seriously stated to be so.
:)
Tripod
06/30/09 06:59 PM
192.91.75.30

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At least that give some simbolance of balance...

I dont have any MW books detailing weapons but I've always been intreuiged by the vibro-blade. I believe I read that they can even penetrate mech armor? Knowing they are fiction, what is the basis of their theory of opperation?
TBA
MacLeod
06/30/09 07:25 PM
76.126.19.26

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Vibroblades work by sending sonic resonance through a knifeblade, which makes the blade vibrate so quickly that it heats itself up to the kind of temperatures that treat most solid materials more like butter than any form of protection.
Drugs don't kill people, pancreatic cancer kills people.

... and whoever heard of a drug that causes pancreatic cancer?
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
01/09/11 09:52 AM
184.233.198.238

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Playing around in the morgue.

Anyone have other personal weapons that they would like to discuss?

My choice of weapons are, (I might change my mind if I know of the more up to date hand weapons that where published)

Zeus Heavy rifle
It has good range and hitting power. This would be my long range weapon. I'm a mech warrior not a infinity sniper. I don't need ultra long range weapons.

Rorynex Sum-machine gun
The range has something to desire but I don't want it for range fighting its more for close range spray and pray attack. It does good damage and holds a lot of ammo. Yes the pulse laser rifle has a greatly better range and with a high capacity power back pack you have some survivability in a sustained fire fight. But that is one heck of a investment in weight. I have a second clip taped to the first upside down for faster reloading.

Nakjma laser pistol
The range is OK. The damage is on the light side for laser pistols. But I like it because with a high capacity power clip you have 30 shots before needing to put in a fresh power clip. Nothing is worse than running out of ammo before the fight is over.

Pistol grip sawed off double barrel shot gun with buckshot
The length of the weapon is no longer than a pistol. This is for a point blank attack. I believe in bringing a gun to a knife fight. At point blank range you will make Swiss cheese out of your target. At range all you will do is piss them off.

Hold-out laser pistol
I have quite a few of these hidden around my body. About the only thing I like about these are that there tiny and easily hidden on ones self. Even at state functions I am armed with a couple of these.

Boigie knife
I carry this more for show and keep others out of range than to really use in a fight. Like I said before I like to bring a gun to a knife fight.

Of course I have my personal body guard in a standard suit of Clan Battle Armor. He is one of my personal friends that returned with me from my collage days on Outreach.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
Christopher_Perkins
01/10/11 09:30 AM
138.162.128.53

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The Zeus Heavy rifle is a good dual use weapon, appears to be in the .50 Calibre range, probalby the standard rifle for the Lyrans but definately not the Spec Rifle for the battletech infantry platoons. One of the few rifles that would be directly effective against BattleMechs without resorting to "OMG its a Mech, Hose it and Pray that we survive".

Sub-Machine Guns are for spray and pray combat, provide security for Squad and Platoon level support weapons. generally if there is a mech in the area the guys carrying Sub-Machine Guns are keeping the Gunners with the Support Weapons supplied with ammunition cannisters and praying that the gunners get lucky.

...

My two choices for weapons beyond the Auto Pistol (Sternsnacht - the full version IIRC retcon "Sternsnacht Claymore" ?) and the Bowie knife are Support Machine Gun (read as WWII introduced M2 that is still going strong) if part of a squad, or the Zeus Heavy Rifle (possibly Boys Anti-Materiel Rifle)... Alternatives are the SRM (1 damage) or the Heavy SRM (mech class 2 damage). the Missiles and the MG require ammo carriers, so they may or may not be useful in a campaign situation without Allied NPCs, or other characters carrying SMGs and willing to carry the ammo.
Christopher Robin Perkins

It is my opinion that all statements should be questioned, digested, disected, tasted, and then either spit out or adopted... RHIP is not a god given shield
His_Most_Royal_Highass_Donkey
01/10/11 10:53 AM
173.150.181.251

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The subject of this thread is personal weapons for "mech warriors" not weapons for infantry.

I don't see many Mech warriors carrying heavy support weapons in there mechs as personal weapons. There is very little room in a mech for such weapons even if a mech warrior wanted one in his mech.
Why argue if the glass is half full or half empty, when you know someone is going to knock it over and spill it anyways.

I was a Major *pain* before
But I got a promotion.
I am now a General *pain*
Yay for promotions!!!
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