ECM & C3i

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Voidshape
08/17/09 06:05 AM
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Ok, so I'm a little fuzzy on the effects of an ECM area on a C3 or C3i system.

I understand that if a C3 unit ventures into the ECM area, it is cut off from the system. But if a mech is just outside of the bubble, can it still offer C3-assisted targeting to an ECM-using mech?

Say an Atlas has the ECM. Two Madcats share a C3i system. Madcat A is 7 hexes from the Atlas (just outside the ECM range), Madcat B is 12 hexes from the Atlas. Can Madcat B still benefit from Madcat A's closer range? Neither are inside the ECM area, but Madcat A's line-of-sight DOES enter it.

?
New to the game... And little obsessed.
Prince_of_Darkness
08/17/09 07:20 AM
205.202.120.216

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Quote:

Ok, so I'm a little fuzzy on the effects of an ECM area on a C3 or C3i system.

I understand that if a C3 unit ventures into the ECM area, it is cut off from the system. But if a mech is just outside of the bubble, can it still offer C3-assisted targeting to an ECM-using mech?





Yes.
Voidshape
08/17/09 08:09 AM
129.71.204.146

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Quote:

Yes.




Ok, so the ECM suite interferes only if one of the C3 mechs gets into the ECM area and is cut off, correct?
New to the game... And little obsessed.
CrayModerator
08/17/09 08:51 AM
147.160.136.10

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Quote:

Ok, so the ECM suite interferes only if one of the C3 mechs gets into the ECM area and is cut off, correct?




Correct. ECM doesn't jam the sensors of C3 units, it jams the communication links between C3 units. Though there's a complication because of that.

As noted, if the units with C3 are outside the ECM bubble, then the ECM unit may be targeted as normal for C3 units. For example, if there is a C3 lance of 4 mechs at 6, 11, 17, and 18 hexes from an Inner Sphere ECM unit (ECM bubble radius 5 hexes), then the lance will target the ECM unit as if they're all 6 hexes from the ECM unit. That's just what you'd expect from the discussion in this thread.

If the closest C3 unit was 5 hexes of the ECM unit (inside the ECM bubble), then it'd be cut off from the C3 network. The C3 lance would then use the next closest guy, which is 11 hexes from the ECM unit, and every C3 unit 11 hexes or more from the ECM unit would fire as if they were 11 hexes from the ECM unit. (The C3 unit 5 hexes from the ECM unit fires as if it's 5 hexes away, of course.) Note that the whole C3 network would crash if the C3 guy inside the bubble had the C3 Master unit. This is pretty much what you'd expect.

The complication (per pg134-135 Total Warfare) is when a spotter is outside the ECM bubble, but the ECM bubble is between the spotter and the C3 master.

Lets say the C3 lance has surrounded the ECM unit. The C3 guys at 11, 17, and 18 hexes from the ECM unit are at the bottom of the board, while the C3 unit at 6 hexes from the ECM unit is at the top of the board. This means that even though none of the C3 units are IN the ECM bubble, the ECM bubble is BETWEEN the 6-hex C3 spotter and its C3 Master unit. The 6-hex spotter is once again cut out of the C3 network, leaving its 3 buddies to attack the ECM unit as if they were 11 hexes from the ECM unit. The spotter can attack as if it's 6 hexes from the ECM unit - it's cut off from the C3 network, not blind.

Basically, any C3 slave whose line of sight goes through a hostile ECM bubble is cut off from the C3 network. ECM jams the communications between C3 units.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Voidshape
08/17/09 09:02 AM
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Got it, thanks! Prefect explanation! (But isn't an ECM range 6 hexes?)
New to the game... And little obsessed.
Voidshape
08/17/09 09:06 AM
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Ooh! So, what about bisecting a C3i network? if an ECM bubble cuts a group of C3i mechs into two separate groupings on either side of it, do they function as two separate C3i networks?

Since C3i requires no masters or slaves, it seems like cutting one portion of the group off from the other would simply form two distinct C3i networks, until the intervening ECM is either gotten around or destroyed.
New to the game... And little obsessed.
Prince_of_Darkness
08/17/09 09:55 AM
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Quote:

Ooh! So, what about bisecting a C3i network? if an ECM bubble cuts a group of C3i mechs into two separate groupings on either side of it, do they function as two separate C3i networks?





Yes Again.

This is one of my big reasons for my "Everything should have ECM" argument.
Prince_of_Darkness
08/17/09 09:59 AM
205.202.120.216

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Quote:

(But isn't an ECM range 6 hexes?)




The first hex is the one the unit is in, and goes out 5 hexes. This is because of the unit stacking rule, which allows for more than one unit in a hex. So, 6 hexes.
Voidshape
08/17/09 11:09 AM
129.71.204.146

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Quote:

Quote:

Ooh! So, what about bisecting a C3i network? if an ECM bubble cuts a group of C3i mechs into two separate groupings on either side of it, do they function as two separate C3i networks?





Yes Again.

This is one of my big reasons for my "Everything should have ECM" argument.




Yup. Even still though, C3i will make fire support much more accurate. 7 hexes is short range for my fav weapon, the ER PPC. I can have a front line mech stand just outside the target's ECM area & let my ER PPC gunboat fire from 23 hexes out with close-range to-hit modifiers. SWEET.

Totally using this.
New to the game... And little obsessed.
CrayModerator
08/17/09 11:34 AM
147.160.136.10

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Quote:

Since C3i requires no masters or slaves, it seems like cutting one portion of the group off from the other would simply form two distinct C3i networks, until the intervening ECM is either gotten around or destroyed.




Correct.

Page 133 Total Warfare:

Because no master computer exists in an improved C3i
network, the entire network cannot be shut down by the loss
of a single unit. Only those units in the eff ect radius of enemy
ECM or whose C3i computer is destroyed by a critical hit are
isolated from the network.

Improved C3i computers are not compatible with standard
C3 Masters/C3 Slaves and do not have the TAG capability of the
standard C3 Master.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
Voidshape
08/17/09 11:37 AM
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Thanks, Mike.
New to the game... And little obsessed.
Tripod
08/17/09 08:37 PM
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What if you could trace LOS arround the ECM bubble by hopping from friendly unit to unit?
TBA
CrayModerator
08/17/09 09:12 PM
173.168.115.68

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Quote:

What if you could trace LOS arround the ECM bubble by hopping from friendly unit to unit?




If you're using a typical C3 master/slave system, it doesn't matter. Interruption of line-of-sight to the master takes the C3 slave out of the network.

A C3i unit will be connected to the units that are not interrupted by the ECM bubble.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer

Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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