CYBRN4CR
02/14/10 08:01 PM
71.236.221.45
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These next series of threads examine some of my redesigned 3050 Clan mechs, and their potential utility among the Clans.
This thread examines my redesigned Stone Rhino.
Stats are shown in MegaMek condensed style to reduce clutter.
Code:
Stone Rhino Custom
100 tons Clan TW
Movement: 3/5/3
Engine: 300 XL
Heat Sinks: 13 [26]
Internal: 152 (Endo Steel)
Armor: 307/307
HD: 3 9
CT: 31 50 ( 12)
RT: 21 34 ( 8)
LT: 21 34 ( 8)
RA: 17 34
LA: 17 34
RL: 21 42
LL: 21 42
Gauss Rifle [LA] 1 Heat
Gauss Rifle [RA] 1 Heat
Gauss Rifle [LT] 1 Heat
ER Medium Laser [LT] 5 Heat
ER Medium Laser [LT] 5 Heat
ER Medium Laser [RT] 5 Heat
ER Medium Laser [RT] 5 Heat
Gauss Ammo (24) [LA]
Gauss Ammo (24) [RA]
Gauss Ammo (24) [RT]
A-Pod [LL]
A-Pod [RL]
ECM Suite [HD]
BV: 3,558 Cost: 24,012,000 Cbills
Yes, Karagin. This one's for you, with love. 
For this design, I kept to the original look and feel of the mech by removing the pulse lasers and giving it a third gauss rifle, with plenty of ammo to keep each going strong. To do this, I converted the engine to an XL version, and added Endo Steel to the chassis. To protect the design even more, I added an ECM suite to guard against enemy electronics, and A-Pods to guard against infantry attacks. Finally, to round out the design, I gave it four ER medium lasers with enough heatsinks to give it no heat issues.
A solid rear-echelon Clan mech.
Edited by CYBRN4CR (02/15/10 03:04 AM)
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Karagin
02/15/10 03:23 AM
80.149.45.102
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Again too much ammo, which could have gone to other things, and again you are trying to turn the Clan mech into an IS mech...
So here is my take, which I gave you the run down on earlier.
Code:
BattleMech Technical Readout
Type/Model: Bonecrusher
Tech: Clan / 3132
Config: Biped BattleMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design
Mass: 100 tons
Chassis: Endo Steel
Power Plant: 300 XL Fusion
Walking Speed: 32.4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 54.0 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type: Standard
Armament:
4 Gauss Rifles
2 ER Medium Lasers
1 ER PPC
Manufacturer: (Unknown)
Location: (Unknown)
Communications System: (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System: (Unknown)
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Bonecrusher
Mass: 100 tons
Equipment: Crits Mass
Int. Struct.: 152 pts Endo Steel 7 5.00
(Endo Steel Loc: 1 HD, 1 LA, 1 RA, 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 LL, 1 RL)
Engine: 300 XL Fusion 10 9.50
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 0
Heat Sinks: 12 Double [24] 0 2.00
Gyro: 4 3.00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors: 5 3.00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA R: Sh+UA 12 .00
Armor Factor: 280 pts Standard 0 17.50
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head: 3 9
Center Torso: 31 43
Center Torso (Rear): 14
L/R Side Torso: 21 28/28
L/R Side Torso (Rear): 10/10
L/R Arm: 17 31/31
L/R Leg: 21 38/38
Weapons and Equipment Loc Heat Ammo Crits Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Gauss Rifle RA 1 32 10 16.00
(Ammo Locations: 1 LA, 1 RA, 1 LT, 1 RT)
1 Gauss Rifle LA 1 6 12.00
1 Gauss Rifle RT 1 6 12.00
1 ER Medium Laser RT 5 1 1.00
1 Gauss Rifle LT 1 6 12.00
1 ER Medium Laser LT 5 1 1.00
1 ER PPC CT 15 2 6.00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS: 29 70 100.00
Crits & Tons Left: 8 .00
Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 23,974,000 C-Bills
Battle Value 2: 3,273 (old BV = 2,790)
Cost per BV2: 7,324.78
Weapon Value: 5,532 / 5,532 (Ratio = 1.69 / 1.69)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 66; MRDmg = 51; LRDmg = 33
BattleForce2: MP: 3, Armor/Structure: 7/6
Damage PB/M/L: 7/7/5, Overheat: 1
Class: MA; Point Value: 33
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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CYBRN4CR
02/15/10 04:03 AM
71.236.221.45
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Ooo. Another challenger appears! 
I'll get back to you on this one. This looks like a good match. 
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Karagin
02/15/10 04:05 AM
80.149.45.102
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Why worry about it...you have the ammo to last for years, I have enough for 16 turns the average most BT games last.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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CYBRN4CR
02/15/10 04:21 AM
71.236.221.45
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Simple. I want to end this debate with a Trial of Grievance. And only one of us is going to be proven right. It could be you or me. But it ends here.
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Karagin
02/15/10 04:46 AM
80.149.45.102
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There is no debate, you build power gamer mechs that means you want to use the loop holes and other such flaws of the game to win. The rest of us don't make mechs that like that.
Your whole unit is setup to be that way, you have elite pilots running around in mechs they would never realisticly see or use because they would never reach that high in the food chain of any unit, and when we have pointed out these things you don't seem to be happy about it.
I also suggested that you share your views of mechs and unit building on the other sites, that way you can get a broader view point on the matter, places beyond the CBT site which is rampant with munchkins and other power gamers, but I have not seen you post else where, why is this?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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CYBRN4CR
02/15/10 05:33 AM
71.236.221.45
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Time and effort posting, mainly. Hey, I'll get there eventually. But, right now, I have my hands full with everything else going on.
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Zandel_Corrin
02/15/10 06:14 AM
203.208.78.129
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I only count 8 shots each for your karagin... unless i missed something.... I'd hate to face than in a trial tho... 8 rounds = 600 potential damage at long range... OUCH!
Vs 360 from that stone rhino BTW
even with 50% accuracy that = one dead stone rhino (or crippled) and an only half dead bone crusher (few to no armour breaches)...
even with no ammo left i know what i'd rather ride... and if you drop the ER Meds for ammo then that = 12 rounds...
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Karagin
02/15/10 06:17 AM
80.149.45.102
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Right on target, each Gauss in my design as only 8 shots, thus after eight rounds of firing it is out of ammo. That is if I got the chance to fire non stop for eight rounds.
I like the medium for back up to the ER PPC.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Zandel_Corrin
02/15/10 06:22 AM
203.208.78.129
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true your not likely (that is if your opponent is any good) to get 8 straight rounds of clear fire to and from your target... the jump ability of the rhino *could* come in handy but at such slow speeds i doubt that.
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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CYBRN4CR
02/15/10 09:58 PM
71.236.221.45
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Well, after waiting a turn to let my heatsinks cool me off, what you said made me think, once again.
Taking a look at the numbers, I realized some things:
Rhino:
15 dam/wep * 3 wep * 24 rounds = 1080 damage at extreme range for 24 rounds (360 for 8 rounds)
Crusher:
15 dam/wep * 5 wep * 8 rounds + 15 dam/wep * 1 wep * 16 rounds = 600 + 240 damage = 840 damage at extreme range for 24 rounds with the ability to fire for longer with the ERPPC.
This is not counting the extra medium laser damages.
Now if we take Zandel's suggestion for the Crusher:
15 dam/wep * 5 wep * 12 rounds + 15 dam/wep * 1 wep * 12 rounds = 900 + 180 damage = 1080 damage at extreme range for 24 rounds with the ability to fire for longer with just the ERPPC.
Without factoring in backup weapons and other components, on a purely empty and flat terrain, the Crusher can deal more damage upfront, possibly taking out anywhere from at worst a mech and a half of equal tonnage to at best 40 mechs with all headshots, before the gausses run out. Then after that it's all up to luck with the ERPPC.
Mine spreads the damage out over time. After 24 rounds, while it could still be a part of the battle, that is not its optimal scenario. After 24 rounds it would start heading back to base, or mopping up what's left.
Now certainly the Crusher would "crush" my Rhino faster, and can be in the battle longer, but at that point which design keeps to the personality of the original? Mine keeps the 3 big guns on a big mech with jump jets theme, while the Crusher truly is a power player's mech.
I stand by my convictions. With ammo and with this design. This proved it.
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Zandel_Corrin
02/15/10 10:45 PM
123.2.140.247
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The BIG diff here is that YOUR design is an Inner Sphere sort of design while Karagins is a Clan design... the clans do not care for 'moping up' and the like... there trials are FAST and deadly so upfront damage is more important than battlefield longevity... at least it was till they had to deal with the inner sphere.
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Karagin
02/16/10 12:03 AM
80.149.45.102
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You are right the mech is a power mech, it was built to do what it's name says. Your having tons of extra doesn't prove anything and again using a computer game to fight out the battle doesn't prove squat. As we have been trying to get you to understand, you need to play in a game versus a real human, on a board with all that goes with it.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
02/16/10 12:03 AM
80.149.45.102
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Thank you for point out the Tech difference and for again explaining to him how the Clans work.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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CYBRN4CR
02/16/10 01:45 AM
71.236.221.45
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*sigh* ALRIGHT. I modified the design. It's got 16 shots of ammo per gauss rifle, and two extra ER Med Lasers. Is is it better now? 
Code:
Stone Rhino Custom 2
100 tons Clan TW
Movement: 3/5/3
Engine: 300 XL
Heat Sinks: 15 [30]
Internal: 152 (Endo Steel)
Armor: 307/307
HD: 3 9
CT: 31 50 ( 12)
RT: 21 34 ( 8)
LT: 21 34 ( 8)
RA: 17 34
LA: 17 34
RL: 21 42
LL: 21 42
Gauss Rifle [LA] 1 Heat
Gauss Rifle [RA] 1 Heat
Gauss Rifle [LT] 1 Heat
ER Medium Laser [LT] 5 Heat
ER Medium Laser [LT] 5 Heat
ER Medium Laser [LT] 5 Heat
ER Medium Laser [RT] 5 Heat
ER Medium Laser [RT] 5 Heat
ER Medium Laser [RT] 5 Heat
Gauss Ammo (8) [LA]
Gauss Ammo (8) [LA]
Gauss Ammo (8) [RT]
Gauss Ammo (8) [LT]
Gauss Ammo (8) [RA]
Gauss Ammo (8) [RA]
ECM Suite [HD]
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Karagin
02/16/10 03:25 AM
80.149.45.102
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Then your test is void, either test it as built or give up and take the hint that your mechs are not built to be used in the actual game, they work for a computer simulation and only for that.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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CYBRN4CR
02/16/10 04:24 AM
71.236.221.45
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I've already tested it without having to use MegaMek. I have Zandel to thank for that.
And yes, I will admit that my originals are meant for a computer simulation, not the actual game.
This Trial of Grievance is over, quiaff? 
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Karagin
02/16/10 05:36 AM
80.149.45.102
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If you are realizing that then future posting should reflect that.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Zandel_Corrin
02/16/10 06:52 AM
203.208.78.129
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I actually have to wonder why you changed this design at all... the stock Clan Stone Rhino is quite a formidable mech.
Unless your thinking of something i'm not... got the stock specs? mind posting them?
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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CYBRN4CR
02/16/10 08:05 AM
71.236.221.45
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I mainly wanted to give it a loadout that reflects what it looks like it equips. In the stock loadout it has two gausses, one in each torso and two large pulse lasers, one on each arm, with a small pulse laser in the head.
Here is the link: http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Stone_Rhino
Since those arms and the torso mounted gun look like gauss rifles, I exchanged the two pulses for a third gauss rifle. Also keeping to my conversion pattern, I gave it an XL engine (which some variants DO mount) which gave me extra tonnage to give the third gauss its ammo, more armor, an ECM suite, and a nice barrage of ER mediums.
Here is the stock Rhino, in my usual format.
Code:
Stone Rhino SERO
100 tons Clan TW
Movement: 3/5/3
Engine: 300
Heat Sinks: 10 [20]
Internal: 152
Armor: 288/307
HD: 3 9
CT: 31 46 ( 15)
RT: 21 27 ( 14)
LT: 21 27 ( 14)
RA: 17 32
LA: 17 32
RL: 21 36
LL: 21 36
Large Pulse Laser [LA] 10 Heat
Large Pulse Laser [RA] 10 Heat
Gauss Rifle [LT] 1 Heat
Gauss Rifle [RT] 1 Heat
Small Pulse Laser [HD] 2 Heat
Gauss Ammo (8) [LT]
Gauss Ammo (8) [LT]
Gauss Ammo (8) [RT]
Gauss Ammo (8) [RT]
BV: 3,001 Cost: 10,512,000 Cbills
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Karagin
02/16/10 08:18 AM
80.149.45.102
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Okay is it is using Endo or Ferro?
This does reflect the pictures some what.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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CYBRN4CR
02/16/10 08:22 AM
71.236.221.45
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The stock uses neither Endo or Ferro. I gave it Endo in mine.
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Karagin
02/16/10 09:08 AM
80.149.45.102
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You may want to include that extra bit of useful info in the stats you post, it helps.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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CYBRN4CR
02/16/10 09:18 AM
71.236.221.45
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Well if you want THAT, then I have to go to TDB format, which really gets wigged out when I paste it.
But here it is. It doesn't have the fluff as apparently that's how it came, but that's why I posted the wiki link.
Code:
SERO Stone Rhino
Chassis: Unknown
Power Plant: Unknown 300
Cruising Speed: 32.25
Maximum Speed: 53.75
Jump Jets: Unknown
Jump Capacity: 90 meters
Armor: Unknown with CASE
Armament:
2 Large Pulse Lasers
1 Small Pulse Laser
2 Gauss Rifles
Manufacturer: Unknown
Primary Factory: Unknown
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown
SERO Stone Rhino
Technology Base: - Clan - Level 2
Equipment Mass
Internal Structure: 10
Engine: 300 19
Walking MP: 3
Running MP: 5
Jumping MP: 3
Heat Sinks: 10(20) - Double 0
Gyro: 3
Cockpit: 3
Armor Factor: 288 18
Internal Armor
Structure Value
Head 3 9
Center Torso 31 46
Center Torso(rear) 15
R/L Torso 21 27
R/L Torso(rear) 14
R/L Arm 17 32
R/L Leg 21 36
Weapons and Ammo Location Critical Tonnage
Large Pulse Laser LA 2 6
Gauss Rifle LT 6 12
Gauss Rifle Ammo LT 2 2
Jump Jet LL 1 2
Jump Jet RL 1 2
Gauss Rifle RT 6 12
Gauss Rifle Ammo RT 2 2
Large Pulse Laser RA 2 6
Jump Jet CT 1 2
Small Pulse Laser H 1 1
Unless you were referring to the fact that I missed mentioning that I needed Endo to fit in the rest of the components in the post earlier, yes I did miss that. That was an error of mine, but it is mentioned in the original stats I posted of my design that it had Endo. 
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Karagin
02/16/10 09:25 AM
80.149.45.102
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May I suggest you get a copy of Heavy Metal Pro, it is the official Designer Program for Battletech as is current up to the last rule book.
www.heavymetalpro.com
It is worth getting and if you haven't noticed The Drawing Board is flawed in how it does the armor weights and thus most folks do not use it any more.
And yes posting all of the stats for the mechs, as I said before, helps out, because we can see that it has Ferro or Endo or if an hand actuator is missing as well as cost and total critical slots used etc...all of which is important.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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CYBRN4CR
02/16/10 09:33 AM
71.236.221.45
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The fact you say it's current up to the last rule book intrigues me. Does it have pretty much everything in Tac Ops? I assume so, as that is what you are saying.
If so, then I might consider the investment. I've had to correct many a mech with FF armor because it was one point too heavy for the chassis once imported to MegaMek. Plus, it doesn't have all the extra stuff in Tac Ops.
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Karagin
02/16/10 09:42 AM
80.149.45.102
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You can get all of the new weapons, it allows you input anything weapon wise into the program, the full blown update is coming, Rick is working on it and soon it should be out.
It is current up to Total War. It has ALL of the stuff from Tactical Handbook, The Handbooks, MaxTech, Unbound and other sourcebooks. So everything you mentioned is there, plus folks have entered in the weapons as they have come out in the other books, go to site, join the boards and as for the file and folks will help you out.
It is less then cost of a DVD and offers far more enjoyment and you get a bonus, all your mechs can work in Mega Mek, one of the neat features, or so I have been told.
No kidding, did I mention that The Drawing Board had a flaw in regards to how it did armor weights? Yes I think I did mention that. Heavy Metal has a support team, in fact it has a lot of support, seriously you need to get it. You have seen how I post the stats, that is normal and official stats and thus all the info about the mech is there.
Really invest in all of the programs, wait for the update to HMPRO6 and then you will have everything you need and be caught up on everything, PLUS a bonus, you might get to know some folks who can meet in or around your area and would welcome a new player into their group, thus allowing you to learn more about the board game and make new friends, which is the best thing about this game.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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CYBRN4CR
02/16/10 09:47 AM
71.236.221.45
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Sounds good to me, Karagin.
What's the ETA so far on HMPRO6?
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Prince_of_Darkness
02/16/10 10:53 AM
205.202.120.216
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Quote:
The fact you say it's current up to the last rule book intrigues me. Does it have pretty much everything in Tac Ops? I assume so, as that is what you are saying.
If so, then I might consider the investment. I've had to correct many a mech with FF armor because it was one point too heavy for the chassis once imported to MegaMek. Plus, it doesn't have all the extra stuff in Tac Ops.
HMP is outdated; Rick has been saying that HMP 6 will come out ever since Techmanual, and so far we have not seen a single screenshot OR piece of evidence of it's existence. In fact, Rick commented several times that the plasma weapons have forced him to build HMP from scratch, and that was back in 2007 (!).
Rick only has one "real" forum, which are the HMP forums. There, you will HAVE to post every design in HMP; posting it up in any other designer (SSW, for instance) will get you banned. None of the members there code for HMP, and the forum is relatively dead with only a few posts a day.
Meanwhile, SSW has over three forums, all of which are extremely active- Solaris 7 and the actual Classic Battletech website, mainly. The designer, Justin Bengston, has several people from both websites helping him code and troubleshoot, and most issues with new releases are fixed within a few days- the last bug (present in SSW 6.4.1) took just a few days to fix (resulting in the present version, 6.4.2) and clearly shows the progress of the team. You can find the entire thread over on the Solaris7.com forums; it's stickied at the top with over 30 pages where you can see it's genesis. HMP has had that armor bug for years, and Rick hasn't done anything about it.
Even CBT and the designs the moderators make are using SSW. Since it's cheap, can do all the abilities of HMP (and more!) and is so much more up-to-date, it is the most logical choice.
EDIT:
And no, HMP does not have all the stuff from TacOps. The best it's got are some of the guns with mocked-up BV and stats.
Edited by Prince_of_Darkness (02/16/10 10:54 AM)
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Karagin
02/16/10 11:30 AM
80.149.45.102
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Rick last said soon, he is working on it, and we should see it pretty soon. Meanwhile as I said you can get the weapons files and most of the other extras are already there in the program.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
02/16/10 11:36 AM
80.149.45.102
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SSW IS NOT THE OFFICIAL SOFTWARE, telling folks to go use is not giving them the correct info.
The add in weapons are straight from the books, the BV and the rest are correct and canon.
Moderators are NOT official spokesperson for CBT or Battletech, I find it very odd that you believe other wise.
HMP is a site based around the HMP program, so why would it entertain other programs? Really do you read what you post?
You know for a fact Rick hasn't done anything? You have inside information that he has not done one bit on HMP6?
Why don't take your comments over to the HMP site and post them, I am sure Rick would like to know what he is and is not doing. Seriously what is your beef against Heavy Metal Pro? It is far easier to use then SSW or TDB. It is and will be the official software, it has decent support, a very helpful forum and folks who will go out of their way to help new users get the hang of the program, I haven't seen that with SSW.
So why don't you take your beef with Rick and HMP to Rick and let him know how you feel, other wise all you are doing is bashing the man because you aren't happy that you don't have a new toy. When in fact you can add the weapons in with the correct BV and the other items like, small cockpits, Heavy Ferro, etc...are there already and have been for a long time.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Prince_of_Darkness
02/16/10 01:34 PM
205.202.120.216
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Quote:
SSW IS NOT THE OFFICIAL SOFTWARE, telling folks to go use is not giving them the correct info.
I never said it was the official software; I'm just suggesting it.
Quote:
The add in weapons are straight from the books, the BV and the rest are correct and canon.
Except HMP runs on BV1.0, which isn't the present system (2.0). I never said it was not canon or completely incorrect- it's just that HMP has severe limitations. Look at MML's and how they had to add their ammunition, for instance.
Quote:
Moderators are NOT official spokesperson for CBT or Battletech, I find it very odd that you believe other wise.
I never said that they were; I was just saying that they do.
Quote:
HMP is a site based around the HMP program, so why would it entertain other programs?
Don't you find it irritating that you have to buy a program just to post your designs on one forum? Sure, twenty bucks isn't too much to some, but that will still turn a lot of people off from joining. Really, if you ask me, it's like someone charging people money just to talk to them. And what does "entertain" mean here? don't you mean "use"?
Quote:
Really do you read what you post?
I could ask the same of you. You sound like some Xbawks 360/Playstation fanboy. Do you really want to sound like some fanboy?
Quote:
You know for a fact Rick hasn't done anything? You have inside information that he has not done one bit on HMP6?
I never said he hasn't done anything; I just said that he hasn't shown anything of him getting it done. Face it Karagin; the most we know of HMP 6 is that Rick keeps saying it's coming out. He's never shown anyone how far he's gotten.
Quote:
Why don't take your comments over to the HMP site and post them, I am sure Rick would like to know what he is and is not doing. Seriously what is your beef against Heavy Metal Pro?
I tried that, actually. He hasn't replied to my PM's on the CBT board. And my "beef" is just that I don't like how he drags along his fanbase with promises of greatness, and yet never shows his progress to anyone else while there are better alternatives. SSW is my better alternative, and I was suggesting it to the new guy, since he asked.
Quote:
It is far easier to use then SSW or TDB.
Since SSW has listed everything, provides the ability to export the files to many different formats (including txt, Megamek, TBD, and HMP) and runs in java, how is it not easier to use? Do you have proof?
Quote:
It is and will be the official software, it has decent support, a very helpful forum and folks who will go out of their way to help new users get the hang of the program, I haven't seen that with SSW.
Since it is only "up to date" in the sense that it's fans added the new weapons, and has no updates to the old rules system, BV system, and still has bugs that have been present from over 5 years ago, it cannot have decent support. Because we have not seen any proof of Version 6's existence, I doubt it would "remain" the "official" software; but that is, of course, saying that he never releases it. Finally, there are massive, stickied threads for help for SSW, which are easily found on the Classic Battletech boards AND the Solaris 7 boards, and presently Justin has begun helping Captain Brandt on Solaris7 to get it to work on his computer (which I find odd, since all SSW needs is the up-to-date version of Java). Once I get home, I will provide links.
To put it simply, your entire statement there has no basis.
Quote:
So why don't you take your beef with Rick and HMP to Rick and let him know how you feel, other wise all you are doing is bashing the man because you aren't happy that you don't have a new toy.
Why would I be unhappy if I am perfectly fine using SSW? It's pretty obvious I prefer it.
Quote:
When in fact you can add the weapons in with the correct BV and the other items like, small cockpits, Heavy Ferro, etc...are there already and have been for a long time.
I already talked about BV 2.0 issues above, so this comment is null.
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Zandel_Corrin
02/16/10 06:14 PM
123.2.140.247
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Ok so i know of and have used TDB (the drawing board), looking into but never bought HMP (heavy metal pro) but what is this SSW?
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Prince_of_Darkness
02/16/10 07:39 PM
71.215.35.57
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Quote:
Ok so i know of and have used TDB (the drawing board), looking into but never bought HMP (heavy metal pro) but what is this SSW?
Solaris Skunk Werks. It's a free java-based battlemech designer made by Justin Bengston (aka LostInSpace) which is the most up-to-date so far. It has the abilities to export the 'mech to most file types (txt, HTML, Megamek, Card, HMP) has most of the published equipment uploaded, and can even give Battleforce stats.
Here's the homepage:
http://www.solarisskunkwerks.com/
He's also working on a vehicle designer 
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Zandel_Corrin
02/16/10 09:12 PM
123.2.140.247
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Nice... can you add your own custom equipment to this program?
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Karagin
02/17/10 12:06 AM
80.149.45.102
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You can your own custom equipment in Heavy Metal Programs and the Heavy Metal stuff is the official 100% canon design programs. The other stuff is third party and not endorsed or support by anyone in charge of Battletech.
I would suggest getting the HM products, they are worth the money spent and you have the support of an entire group of people to help you out. Plus the added benefit of being able to add in custom weapons or electronics means you can get more out of things.
Each program offers different things, like HMAero, you can in custom armor and engines. If HMVee you can add in things like smoke discharger and give the weights you want them to be.
Just some examples. I high recommend them, and also suggest joining the HMP forums, there you have a great group of folks who have done some amazing things with the program and will be more then happy to help you out. And the price is not that out there $15-25 dollars max depending what program you get, I believe HMAero is the one that runs $25, been a while since I priced them, but go to the website: www.heavymetalpro.com and check it out, it is worth the money spent.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Zandel_Corrin
02/17/10 01:16 AM
123.2.140.247
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thanks for the feedback.. i will check these forums out... i assume they allow lurkers?
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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CYBRN4CR
02/17/10 02:20 AM
71.236.221.45
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Just tested out SSW.
*_*
I LOVE IT! It's got all the cool stuff from Tac Ops that I use! WAY better than my ancient TDB!
Sorry, Karagin. Not only are the HM forums not letting me activate my account for some strange reason, but the competition won me over faster. I guess the official realm of Battletech was never meant for me.
Thanks Prince! 
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Karagin
02/17/10 02:45 AM
80.149.45.102
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You can brows without joining or join and just read and never post...it is up to you.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Karagin
02/17/10 02:47 AM
80.149.45.102
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What ever. Just be aware you are using a program that is not official nor supported by the company.
And I don't see how you are not being allowed to register at HMP, did you follow all of the direction or try emailing on the moderators or admin? They can help you get signed up.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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CYBRN4CR
02/17/10 03:09 AM
71.236.221.45
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I registered and had all the proper info set, but no activation email was sent to me. I even sent a few automated requests to resend the activation email, checking to make sure the email is correct, but I still get nothing. Unless it takes a while for this to happen, there is something critically wrong there.
All attempts to log in normally, say that my account is inactive. But that's where I'm at. I haven't emailed the admins yet about the issue.
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Karagin
02/17/10 03:32 AM
80.149.45.102
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Maybe you should email the admin, also check your spam folder, email programs are famous for thinking for people and put things into the spam folder just because of single word or combo of words.
I do find it odd that just because you didn't get instant approval you want to write off the whole thing.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Prince_of_Darkness
02/17/10 10:56 AM
205.202.120.216
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Quote:
thanks for the feedback.. i will check these forums out... i assume they allow lurkers?
Yep. We have a ton of people who browse Solaris 7 and never post, and ClassicBattletech.com even more so.
Quote:
Just tested out SSW.
*_*
I LOVE IT! It's got all the cool stuff from Tac Ops that I use! WAY better than my ancient TDB!
Sorry, Karagin. Not only are the HM forums not letting me activate my account for some strange reason, but the competition won me over faster. I guess the official realm of Battletech was never meant for me.
Thanks Prince!
Good to hear I have a satisfied customer 
It's the greatest thing about SSW; being free, you can download it to check it out and see if you like it without issue.
Quote:
What ever. Just be aware you are using a program that is not official nor supported by the company.
So? 7zip isn't owned by any company or is it official, and yet I use it to unzip stuff I download all the time. Just because it doesn't have some "offical" backing doesn't make it useless; look at Linux, for example.
Face it, Karagin; you are grasping at straws to try and prove I'm wrong.
Quote:
And I don't see how you are not being allowed to register at HMP, did you follow all of the direction or try emailing on the moderators or admin? They can help you get signed up.
I was about to say the same thing. You might also want to try giving yourself some time, in case the e-mailing is slow.
Does your computer have an e-mail blocker (like, are you accessing this through a work/school computer)? If so, you might have a problem there.
Edited by Prince_of_Darkness (02/17/10 11:01 AM)
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Zandel_Corrin
02/17/10 05:24 PM
123.2.140.247
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/agree
I use 7zip all the time as well, won't go back to anything else and i've found a lot of other software like that. Free doesn't always mean bad.
Also having looked at HMP now it does have a hefty price tag if you want to design more than just mechs... Heavy Metal Plus (Pro, Vee and light) comes in at $55 and you need Aero to do fighters and stuff so that's another 30 odd.
Must admit the programs look very nice and the new map maker sounds great but i'm not entirely convinced yet.
Galaxy Commander
Zandel Corrin
Night Dragon Clan
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Karagin
02/18/10 12:32 AM
80.149.45.102
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Okay and you would be spending that much on a single rule book or sourcebook, the programs give you, for their price, a large range of abilites. There are more to them then just making mechs or vehicles etc...Rick has put a lot of extras into them. You can including fluff text, you can give the weapons and comments actual names of who makes them etc...for some this is not a big deal for others it is.
Then with the HM programs you can do up Battleforce rosters, you can setup whole units at random letting the program pick for you. The BV, contrary to some claims around here, IS up to date, and Rick even set things up so you can see the old BV as well as the new, so the change is there if you want to see.
The program also let's you have a pilot roster, actually all of the HM products have that. Add in the custom weapons ability, again all of them have it and you can see that there is a lot to offer for the price asked, and you can buy all of them in HMPlus, all but the BA program for a lesser price then buying the all seperate. Explore the site over there more, ask questions, I am sure the folks will help you.
And while free is excellent, in this case the program is a third parties attempt to get something now, verses waiting for the finalized product, Rick is not happy that HMP6 is not out all ready. Yet real life, you know the part means going to work, dealing with family passing way, illness, yeah that stuff can put a crimp in any set of plans. For example, I am in Germany, why? Army sent me here, did I want to go? No, had no plans for this trip, but I am here, have to deal with it.
With the HM programs, you get support, Rick is really good at answering questions and folks on the site will help you get through tech problems with the program. I don't see any support for any of the third party design programs and none of them are official, thus the vaunted tournament play that 70% of the folks are so stoked about having means none of the mechs made in SSW or TDB or any other designer can be used, so for some they offer nothing beyond a novelty factor.
But for a smaller group, who want everything now I guess having something like SSW means more then waiting for a finished product that has friendlier format for the users, you don't loses all of your older files, did I mention Rick is big on not having folks have to re-enter everything, his files work with each update and upgrade for each program. HM series of programs offers a lot, it is sad that folks can not simply wait until the next version is done and add the weapons and their BV in via the customs weapons editor that again comes with the program.
But each has to go with what they feel is best for them, I will stick with the HM programs, if you don't buy them that is fine as well.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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CYBRN4CR
02/18/10 04:03 AM
71.236.221.45
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Alright guys, thanks for your input, but I think it's time this conversation had its own thread in the General Discussion.
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Prince_of_Darkness
02/18/10 05:03 PM
205.202.120.216
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Quote:
Okay and you would be spending that much on a single rule book or sourcebook, the programs give you, for their price, a large range of abilites. There are more to them then just making mechs or vehicles etc...Rick has put a lot of extras into them. You can including fluff text, you can give the weapons and comments actual names of who makes them etc...for some this is not a big deal for others it is.
You can do the same thing in SSW. And i'd rather not spend 20 bucks on something I cannot return if I don't like it.
Quote:
Then with the HM programs you can do up Battleforce rosters, you can setup whole units at random letting the program pick for you. The BV, contrary to some claims around here, IS up to date, and Rick even set things up so you can see the old BV as well as the new, so the change is there if you want to see.
The BV thing is the same in SSW, but I have not seen any proof that HMP has up-to-date BV. I am not knowledgeable in Battleforce, but I do know that SSW has the function.
Quote:
The program also let's you have a pilot roster, actually all of the HM products have that.
Is that like a custom pilot roster? That is probably the only thing that SSW doesn't have (for obvious reasons).
Quote:
Add in the custom weapons ability, again all of them have it and you can see that there is a lot to offer for the price asked, and you can buy all of them in HMPlus, all but the BA program for a lesser price then buying the all seperate. Explore the site over there more, ask questions, I am sure the folks will help you.
SSW has that too.
Quote:
And while free is excellent, in this case the program is a third parties attempt to get something now, verses waiting for the finalized product, Rick is not happy that HMP6 is not out all ready. Yet real life, you know the part means going to work, dealing with family passing way, illness, yeah that stuff can put a crimp in any set of plans. For example, I am in Germany, why? Army sent me here, did I want to go? No, had no plans for this trip, but I am here, have to deal with it.
What? Are you insinuating that I don't know what real life is?
Just because SSW has been put together much faster, and just because SSW is up-to-date doesn't mean that the author hasn't been constrained to Real Life. I could easily post the thread about it's construction, and you can see how much he got sidetracked by RL.
Don't imply that bullshit.
Quote:
With the HM programs, you get support, Rick is really good at answering questions and folks on the site will help you get through tech problems with the program. I don't see any support for any of the third party design programs and none of them are official, thus the vaunted tournament play that 70% of the folks are so stoked about having means none of the mechs made in SSW or TDB or any other designer can be used, so for some they offer nothing beyond a novelty factor.
And here I see how little you know of SSW. Saying all that about "support" and "questioning" makes me ask why HMP still has all those bugs, like that armor issue you talked about. Again, you are also giving some huge deal about "official" programming; Rick isn't in a business, and makes this on his own spare time, so how is it professional?
Quote:
But for a smaller group, who want everything now I guess having something like SSW means more then waiting for a finished product that has friendlier format for the users,
Oh, really now?
Quote:
you don't loses all of your older files,
Aside from your poor english (I'm a Grammar Nazi, FTW!) The first version of SSW I had was version 1.0.6 (it now 6.4.2) that only had the interductory stuff. All the files I made then, my CF-thousand series, still open fine. If you had SSW, you would know that.
Quote:
HM series of programs offers a lot, it is sad that folks can not simply wait until the next version is done and add the weapons and their BV in via the customs weapons editor that again comes with the program.
Well, then I guess its too bad that people didn't want to wait, or wanted to upgrade to a program that offered more.
To be honest, Karagin, it is extremely obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about. You are, again, grasping at straws to try and come up with effective arguments against the use of SSW; the problem is that there really isn't one. Face it, Karagin- SSW can do all the things HMP used to, and more. In fact, every argument here that you brought up I have destroyed; the only issues being Battleforce, which is something I don't know the rules to. To sum it all up:
If you had actually tried SSW, you would have not made your statements here.
I don't know why a free program has you so bent out of shape- must be fanboyism, or some form of attachment- but considering how you acted when you and Cray got into that argument about the Jihad, I have to chose to end this discussion, seeing how you never listened to reason then (and probably won't now, considering this).
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