CYBRN4CR
03/06/10 04:01 AM
71.236.221.45
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Hey, y'all.
I'm trying to find general stats/rules for ice barges in the Battletech universe, and I would like any information about them. Their crew sizes, their general weight ranges, how many jump drives they have, what rulebook they show up in (if any), etc.
Thanks! 
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Cray
03/06/10 11:01 AM
68.205.198.74
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Quote:
Hey, y'all.
I'm trying to find general stats/rules for ice barges in the Battletech universe, and I would like any information about them. Their crew sizes, their general weight ranges, how many jump drives they have, what rulebook they show up in (if any), etc.
If you're referring to the Ryan Ice Cartel "Iceships," those are best described in Strategic Operations (pg131) and the House Kurita Sourcebook:
http://www.classicbattletech.com/downloads/HouseKurita-TextOnly.pdf
pg16 of the Kurita Sourcebook is a presentation by Rudolph Ryan to investors that describes the system in great deal.
The clarification offered by Strategic Operations is that stock JumpShips could not serve in an Iceship flotilla, but that special navigational software and jump drive hardware were required. (This discussion is part of a larger discussion of how bad it is to have objects, especially other JumpShips, near a ship activating its KF drive.)
Beyond that, there are no details on the ships - no tonnages, no drive masses, no crew requirements, nothing. My assumption during writing SO was that they wouldn't be too much different than a standard JumpShip, but that's not stated in print and thus the disclaimer in my .sig applies.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
03/06/10 11:58 AM
80.153.214.179
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Weren't these also mentioned in the Star League Sourcebook as well?
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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Lafeel
03/06/10 03:03 PM
157.157.189.32
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Why did I think of the movie Ice Pirates when I first saw this title..
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Cray
03/06/10 08:47 PM
68.202.195.72
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Quote:
Weren't these also mentioned in the Star League Sourcebook as well?
The Iceships were mentioned in quite a few books. The most detailed entry is in the House Kurita SB.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Karagin
03/06/10 08:52 PM
80.153.214.179
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That is a really good movie, I have it on both DVD and VHS and it is one of those 80s movies that actually gets better over time and I hope they DON'T remake it.
Karagin
Given time and plenty of paper, a philosopher can prove anything.
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CYBRN4CR
03/07/10 01:58 AM
76.27.197.210
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Hey, Cray thanks for your input and reference links. They really helped me understand how that worked. Very different than the Mech 2 Mercs interpretation (which essentially is an ice barge, or as I call it, a glacier with jumpdrives and a control bridge attached  )
The reason I asked about this is that it was presented to me as an alternative to transporting forces covertly throughout the Inner Sphere. Essentially, the ice cube could be used as a Trojan Horse to transport Battlemechs and other related cargo. Sounded like an interesting proposal, but I had a hard time finding any documentation about such ships. So this definitely helps!
So when factoring transportation costs, do I count each of the ships jump cost as the same as a normal jump? Or is the cost of the whole fleet of ships equal to a normal jump?
I would like to believe the jump cost of the fleet is the same as a normal jump, but if each ship jumping is equal to that cost, then that tactic would be very expensive indeed... 
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Cray
03/07/10 02:03 PM
173.168.115.68
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Quote:
The reason I asked about this is that it was presented to me as an alternative to transporting forces covertly throughout the Inner Sphere. Essentially, the ice cube could be used as a Trojan Horse to transport Battlemechs and other related cargo. Sounded like an interesting proposal, but I had a hard time finding any documentation about such ships. So this definitely helps!
As described in Strategic Operations around page 131 (and in prior books that discuss the topic of "objects in a KF field," like AT2R), it is a very bad idea to be near a JumpShip when it jumps. The JumpShip can only safely form a hyperspace field around objects that it knows is there. For this reason, you're safe inside a JumpShip. You're also safe during a jump in a DropShip properly connected to a JumpShip's docking collar; the "KF boom" in a DropShip helps properly extend the field to the (up to) 100,000 tons of complicated objects (people, spaceships, computers) that can fit on a docking collar.
However, the iceship JumpShips have no way of really knowing or monitoring the iceberg they're transporting. Their navigational calculations ASSUME it's a fairly homogeneous block of ice (of several billion tons), which is a fairly predictable, solid substance with no complications (unlike a human body or BattleMech). However, the icebergs still tend to get shattered and mangled in the jump. The experience can be positively lethal to humans and destructive to complicated machines.
Now, this doesn't preclude the iceships from acting like a "trojan horse." However, rather than carrying the 'Mechs and other equipment in the iceberg, you'd carry the units in the JumpShips. The iceberg would be a decoy.
Quote:
So when factoring transportation costs, do I count each of the ships jump cost as the same as a normal jump? Or is the cost of the whole fleet of ships equal to a normal jump?
I'm not sure they'd offer normal transportation. If they had some cargo space or docking collar space, it might go for the usual rate per jump - each iceship, if they had collars, would rent them at the usual rates. I suspect the individual JumpShips would be more expensive because of their specialized drives.
It should be also noted that the relatively new House Marik Handbook indicated only 57 iceship JumpShips are in operation in 3067, which means there are only 3 functional iceship squadrons plus some spares.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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CYBRN4CR
03/07/10 10:54 PM
71.236.221.45
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So in the end, due to the ice ships' rarity, and the fact that I'm going to have to dock with a jumpship anyway, it'd probably be better to travel the beaten path and have them hitch rides on Merchant Jumpships, or own one themselves.
Thanks for all your help, Cray.
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Frabby
03/23/10 07:39 AM
79.224.177.36
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An Iceship, the "Paradise Hope", features as a campaign setting in the MW2:Mercenaries computer game (so yeah, apocryphal) sometimes in the 3030s.
The Iceship is depicted as one huge slab of frozen water, with thrust engines attached to one end and iirc a small command tower somewhere. It is really an ice cube with thrusters, not a ship in the strictest sense.
BattleMechs can walk (and fight) on its surface and in ice caves. I reckon it is over a kilometer long but can't really remember any details.
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Prince_of_Darkness
03/23/10 02:03 PM
205.202.120.210
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Quote:
An Iceship, the "Paradise Hope", features as a campaign setting in the MW2:Mercenaries computer game (so yeah, apocryphal) sometimes in the 3030s.
The Iceship is depicted as one huge slab of frozen water, with thrust engines attached to one end and iirc a small command tower somewhere. It is really an ice cube with thrusters, not a ship in the strictest sense.
BattleMechs can walk (and fight) on its surface and in ice caves. I reckon it is over a kilometer long but can't really remember any details.
Too bad the latter parts of the level were corrupted. That one was fun.
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CYBRN4CR
03/23/10 05:42 PM
71.236.221.45
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Yes, that was by far my favorite mission in the game. And that is what I thought ice ships were like when the idea was presented to me. But I guess when it comes to the canon fluff, it is simply not so.
I was disappointed, yes, but in light of this discussion, I had my unit commandeer a merchant jumpship and an outdated overlord to transport the battalion.
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Cray
03/23/10 10:41 PM
173.168.115.68
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Quote:
It is really an ice cube with thrusters, not a ship in the strictest sense. BattleMechs can walk (and fight) on its surface and in ice caves.
Ooo, ice that generates 1 billion times normal gravity for 1km block of the stuff. Nifty.
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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Revanche
03/24/10 12:47 PM
138.162.8.58
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It's 'special.' Just like I am.
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