ShadowMasterCM
Captain
Reged: 12/07/05
Posts: 916
Loc: New York
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Neveron Outages
#159494 - 11/23/10 10:19 AM (67.246.253.214)
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Players with comments to the recent update from Wayward_Son, please reply here.
Stay on topic
Negative comments will simply be deleted...so keep the responses intelligent and well thought out please!
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Katrar
Major
Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 1314
Loc: Seattle, WA USA, Terra
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Re: Neveron Outages
[Re: ShadowMasterCM]
#159495 - 11/23/10 11:16 AM (67.170.89.133)
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Ok I'll bite. This is an untenable situation, not in the least because it presumes the tiny remaining active community (what, 5 people? 10 people?) will start ponying up on a monthly basis to keep the lights on. Colo hosting is not cheap, and apparently there is money back owed.
WWS in his update did not lay blame, and it was not the type of post that catered to an assumption of blame, but the reality is this situation is the direct result of the game's admin abandoning Neveron in 2007. There is no reason to believe that there will ever be admin activity in the future, regardless if bills get paid.
I played this game with most of you for a long time. 9 years ago I first found Neveron. It was and is an important part of my online gaming history/experience, hell it was important enough to me I even wrote a book about it. But I think it's time we all be real about Neveron and say our goodbyes. This has gone on long enough.
This is a sad point in time for this game. It had so much potential, but for whatever reasons here we are.
SM this is not intended to be a negative comment, just a real one, so please do not delete it.
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HoC Gaming - Come war with us!
The HoC Archive - Neveron's definitive historical document
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mattbuck
Eeyore
Reged: 02/13/04
Posts: 3285
Loc: Nottingham, UK
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Re: Neveron Outages
[Re: Katrar]
#159496 - 11/23/10 11:32 AM (128.243.253.117)
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As Kato said, we all know it won't get better - no one will buy the game, as it is Randy/WWS would probably have to pay someone to take it off their hands. The game is dead. It died a long time ago. It's time we close the coffin lid and stop raping its corpse.
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buc
Captain
Reged: 08/12/05
Posts: 710
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Re: Neveron Outages
[Re: mattbuck]
#159500 - 11/23/10 12:25 PM (125.237.151.99)
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I have to agree... any money donated to nev will only be short (VERY SHORT) term fix, and we'll be back to the same state within weeks.
The only possible good news of this, Shadow may be able to buy Nev for the cost of the hardware now :P
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mattbuck
Eeyore
Reged: 02/13/04
Posts: 3285
Loc: Nottingham, UK
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Re: Neveron Outages
[Re: buc]
#159506 - 11/23/10 07:39 PM (128.243.253.115)
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The hardware's so old it's not actually worth anything anymore. Heck, Nev would probably work better if it ran off a $100 laptop.
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KJI_3x6
Lieutenant
Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 650
Loc: Minnesota, North Korea
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Re: Neveron Outages
[Re: mattbuck]
#159507 - 11/24/10 01:12 AM (71.63.225.124)
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i would say to people who want to try and keep it on life support to let it go, if you want to keep this game going, it need to be purchased by somebody new, sending the current owners of this game money is a lost cause, we as a community have afforded them enough luxury items, yet they have not actually put any sort of effort into evolving the game.
honestly though, i believe it is time to just let neveron die.
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My d*** rumble in the jungle; your d*** got touched by your uncle.
My d*** double feature screen; your d*** went straight to dvd.
ME > you
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ghostrider
Lieutenant
Reged: 03/26/10
Posts: 522
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Re: Neveron Outages
[Re: KJI_3x6]
#159508 - 11/24/10 11:58 PM (70.170.53.45)
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well a few questions come to mind, but most of them might be considered negative. I will ask a few of them and hopefully this doesnt get deleted.
Is the server location power supply get shut off so often that the back ups are needed that much?
Would getting a new backup mean that wws would check the game more often to see if it is still up and running? (honestly figure once per day, even for just a quick check would be smart).
This one is gonna probably get the responce deleted, but here it goes...
Given the past history of the admins, can we trust them to do as they say? I would figure them not taking the donations that get made and not paying off personal bills, but putting it towards keeping the game (hence income) going. The lack of interest makes me concerned about trusting this to happen.
If it can be shown they will, not can or might, actually get the equipment and work on the game to fix it, I would be inclined to send some funds in.. sounds more negative then i wanted, but this is something i feel needs to be stated and answered before sending anything in.
But does that mean shadow isnt gonna try to buy the game?
and for those that think the game should die, stop playing, and stop posting in here about it. Just retire from the whole thing already.
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ShadowMasterCM
Captain
Reged: 12/07/05
Posts: 916
Loc: New York
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Re: Neveron Outages
[Re: ghostrider]
#159510 - 11/25/10 02:51 AM (67.246.253.214)
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I have not given up on trying to purchase the game.
My largest obstacle was and still is funding. The majority of the playerbase that had made verbal commitments to fund the purchase, for a variety of reasons, have not followed thru with said commitments.
This leaves me shorter than previously estimated, over and over again, as I get the latest info from yet another player backing out of supporting the purchase.
This cycle seems to go on and on, especially when players would rather listen to endless rumors and speculation about what is best for Neveron.
Since so many people are self proclaimed 'experts', and appear to know how to run a game, or better yet...building one from scratch, I just wonder why there are not more games out there for us to play.
I have since given up on the playerbase as a major source funding for my purchase. Seeking outside sources will take longer and of course will require more effort to accomplish.
Till then we will have to deal with Neveron as it is. To expect anything more is just not realistic at this point
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Toten
Sergeant
Reged: 03/18/08
Posts: 148
Loc: Australia
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Re: Neveron Outages
[Re: ShadowMasterCM]
#159511 - 11/25/10 08:07 AM (118.208.117.146)
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ROFLMAO!
I miss one thing - HELL, it aint the same never will be, ever. Chicago! Miss ya HELL.
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To secure peace is to prepare for war.
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thadeus
Newbie
Reged: 02/03/06
Posts: 11
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Re: Neveron Outages
[Re: Toten]
#159513 - 11/26/10 05:29 PM (67.81.179.40)
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give $$$ to WWS? are you kidding? given the non-existent support for several years, DP issues not being resolved, etc. etc - why on earth would anyone give any more money to WWS and neveron? it would be more satisfying to simply burn the money ...
let the game die - FINALLY. it is sad to see any effort wasted on neveron at this point.
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Pimpslap
Sergeant Major
Reged: 03/13/03
Posts: 365
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Re: Neveron Outages
[Re: thadeus]
#159515 - 11/26/10 10:24 PM (74.196.96.143)
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I seriously considered trying to talk with randy and come up with a selling price to buy nev. But after putting down alot of things on paper, it wasnt worth the cost. I would rather invest the money into other things....
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Harbingers of Chaos
COME WAR WITH US!!
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Tzu_Theory
Lieutenant
Reged: 10/28/04
Posts: 563
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Re: Neveron Outages
[Re: Pimpslap]
#159516 - 11/27/10 05:29 AM (71.178.241.204)
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SM, you have to be kidding. You are slamming people for not following through with "commitments"? You had no clue how to answer the majority of my questions when querying how you planned to operate the business. Anyone would be foolish not to ask questions for such a large investment and your answers were laughable at best. Furthermore, and don't take this personally, I would never invest in an organization or person that had a bad credit report. This is a major factor when determining risk. I would much rather go to Vegas and hedge my risk there-- at least I get free drinks while I do it 
Here's some free advice. Don't buy the game. It needs too much work that it isn't even funny. If you do by the game, don't buy the hardware. You can now run this entire game off of 2-3 virtual servers running on one machine.
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Tzu-Theory
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Pimpslap
Sergeant Major
Reged: 03/13/03
Posts: 365
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Re: Neveron Outages
[Re: Tzu_Theory]
#159519 - 11/27/10 11:54 AM (74.196.96.143)
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Tzu you noob come to irc.
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Harbingers of Chaos
COME WAR WITH US!!
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KJI_3x6
Lieutenant
Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 650
Loc: Minnesota, North Korea
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Re: Neveron Outages
[Re: Pimpslap]
#159520 - 11/27/10 05:41 PM (71.63.225.124)
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Quote:
It works!
This is the default web page for this server.
The web server software is running but no content has been added, yet.
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My d*** rumble in the jungle; your d*** got touched by your uncle.
My d*** double feature screen; your d*** went straight to dvd.
ME > you
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ShadowMasterCM
Captain
Reged: 12/07/05
Posts: 916
Loc: New York
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Re: Neveron Outages
[Re: Pimpslap]
#159521 - 11/27/10 05:44 PM (67.246.253.214)
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Tzu I would really like to understand what your recent attitude has been about and what motivated you to come here and start making cracks at me...
my comments about people who said 'yes, ill contribute' and actually did not, was merely informing people why i had not yet purchased the game. the point is they made a commiment, and those commiments never became reality.
Just to be clear...those people who did not follow thru with those commitments were not because they felt i was not capable of running the game. It was their own personal, real life issues...like the one Wayward_Son has been trying to deal with for the last few years. I was not happy about it, but I also understand things happen, so I moved on.
what any of that has to do with some conversation(s) that you and I had in the past I have no idea.
Now as for any conversations that we may have had about the game in the past...I dont appreciate your wise cracks about them now.
When I approached you about supporting my purchase attempt, you did have questions. I answered every question you asked me in the best manner possible based on the facts that I had. Once I heard some of your questions, I knew that you had an entirely different understanding of what Neveron was or how it had been running for the last 10 years. I knew at that point you also would not want anything to do with my attempts to purchase the game. So thats where we left things.
So what purpose does it server to come here now making your negative comments?
KJI: what's the point of poasting that info? I have mentioned before, and I say it again, that is some odd error that happens when accessing www.neveron.com
If you enter www2.neveron.com you can get access to the game.
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Katrar
Major
Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 1314
Loc: Seattle, WA USA, Terra
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Re: Neveron Outages
[Re: ShadowMasterCM]
#159523 - 11/27/10 07:14 PM (67.170.89.133)
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See this is what happens.
Really, what's the logic in even considering salvaging this game at this point. Probably hundreds if not thousands of man hours necessary to untangle the hopeless mess of code. A community you can count on one hand. For how much money?
SM you keep suggesting that "making a new game" is somehow a pipe dream, and that if it were possible people would have done it already. Well, there have in fact been at least 3 direct spinoffs from Neveron already: all out war, tinywarz and invasion 3042. That's games that became playable, regardless if they were successful or not due to their own design decisions. Many more became partially coded but abandoned due to financial and time constraints.
So really I have to reject the notion that making a new game is somehow more difficult or problematic than trying to salvage neveron. As some others have said, I don't think you fully understand the complexity of the problem you are intending to take on... recoding Neveron is something even Randy and WWS turned pale at the thought of. An outside coder would probably spend thousands of your dollars just trying to figure out how to even approach Neveron, let alone fixing anything.
Just saying. If you do get the cash, somehow or another, actually using it to buy neveron may be the worst thing you could do with it.
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HoC Gaming - Come war with us!
The HoC Archive - Neveron's definitive historical document
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mattbuck
Eeyore
Reged: 02/13/04
Posts: 3285
Loc: Nottingham, UK
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Re: Neveron Outages
[Re: Katrar]
#159524 - 11/27/10 10:26 PM (128.243.253.116)
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I agree with Kato again - the only thing worthwhile about Nev is the lessons we have learnt about how not to do it. I'm still up for creating TSW or something along those lines, just I would need someone who can actually code.
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buc
Captain
Reged: 08/12/05
Posts: 710
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Re: Neveron Outages
[Re: mattbuck]
#159526 - 11/28/10 07:29 PM (210.86.1.168)
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Mattbuck, I can code msgbox's  Can I be your coder?
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mattbuck
Eeyore
Reged: 02/13/04
Posts: 3285
Loc: Nottingham, UK
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Re: Neveron Outages
[Re: buc]
#159527 - 11/28/10 11:56 PM (128.243.253.108)
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That makes you more talented than Randy, so sure.
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ghostrider
Lieutenant
Reged: 03/26/10
Posts: 522
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Re: Neveron Outages
[Re: mattbuck]
#159528 - 11/29/10 10:50 AM (70.170.53.45)
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Tzu, shadow was answering a question i posed. I was curious on the status of things for the game, and he answered with the best knowledge they have at the time. Credit scores dont tell the whole story of a persons life. alot of time a simple thing like getting hurt and laid up for a few weeks is enough to destroy a great credit record. Not overly concerned since i sent in what i could afford. I live in Las Vegas and realize you never gamble money you cannt afford to lose, weither in the casinos or helping someone out. I can see where people are leery of sending in thier entire savings, and they would be foolish to do so. As with any business, there are always risks. I do agree with shadow on the fact that if you promise to send in say 100 bucks, then you should follow through. Yes there are things that will change agreements, but then they should never have said they would send in so much.
As for starting a new game, I hate to say it but that is looking more like the better choice. I wanted to avoid having spent the time to build a small empire or two and throwing it away, but I can imagine the coding for the game is beyond trying to fix. Biggest problem seems to be finding someone that can code and is willing to do it.
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ShadowMasterCM
Captain
Reged: 12/07/05
Posts: 916
Loc: New York
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Re: Neveron Outages
[Re: ghostrider]
#159529 - 11/29/10 12:23 PM (67.246.253.214)
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Katrar:
You asked whats the point of salvaging Neveron "at this point"? what exactly has changed in everyones mind that makes Neveron so much less appealing than before?
Even in its prime Neveron was a tangled mess of code, growing more and more tangled as Admins tried to deal with the ever changing Microsoft software used to run Neveron. I knew all that while making plans to purchase the game. I plan on spending most of the first year detangling things. Nothing has changed here.
Let me be clear to everyone, I never thought, nor implied, that owning Neveron was going to be easy. Nor was it going to 'strike it rich' overnight. It was always going to take lots of time, moeny and energy to make it a success again. Time and energy I have plenty of and I am more than willing to invest them into Neveron. I have already done so as a player, and will continue to do so as an owner. Will it ever reach its high point of the past? I really dont know. Can it do very well again? I think so, or I wouldnt be wasting my time trying to purchase it. Only time will tell.
As for all this about making a new game. I have never suggested it was a pipedream. What I said was that if it was so much easier, then why havent more people done so. My point was that either task [1)buy Neveron or 2)create a new game from scratch] was going to be a very involved and lengthy process. Yes, there have been several games developed over the years. Some of them are fortunate enuff to still be around today. I wish them the best of luck in thier continued success.
However, none of them have enjoyed Neveron's level of success, nor longevity. So as 'horrible' as Neveron may seem to some, to others it is a great game that there is no comparable replacement. Income was more than sufficient to 'pay the bills' when it was merely maintained on all its ancient hardware, with very little new development, over the last few years. Neveron has huge potential that was never explored, let alone tapped into, and it is my intention to do exactly that.
So in my opinion, Neveron is the better choice to try and 'salvage' rather than try to create something unproven from scratch.
Now as for the 'community'. The playerbase has of course shrunk. With the lack of an active admin over the last few years the veteran players have understandably lost all faith in the game. It has suffered even more so in the last 6+ months as the game has been 'offline' far to much.
Until things are 'back to normal' the playerbase number's will continue to suffer. I intend to get things operational, and then the playerbase will rebuild itself. I knew the playerbase had shrunk since Neverons prime, and I still wanted to purchase it. Nothing has changed here either.
One important aspect about the 'playerbase' that most people dont get, is how important NEW players are to the game. On average the new player total income far exceeds the 'veteran' player income.
Its the NEW players that have been paying the bills since the downhill slide of Neveron began. NEW players only needed a functioning server to be drawn into this exciting and interesting game.
Veteran players however demanded changes be implemented or would organize things like Donation boycotts when they didnt get the things they wanted, trying to force thier will upon wnership. Granted some policy changes where unpopular, but it was clearly stated the game was still under development, and changes were a part of that process. Should Neveron ever evolve into something that is no longer fun for you to play, then go find something that is.
A side note: As a player I did not agree with 'boycott' tactics. As an owner, I'll likely disagree with them even more. However, I am aware that player RETENTION is also a very important aspect of a successful game. As owner tho, I will not tolerate disrespect or bully tactics from any individual, or group, of players. Mutual respect and open communication about the game will always be my policy.
Most veteran players stopped donating a long time ago. Since the game has been offline so much, and donation issues have been neglected for a very long time, this larger income from the NEW player has also finally dropped off as well. So its no wonder that Neveron is finally in a financial mess. Again, none of this is shocking news to me as I continue to push on with my purchase of Neveon.
Neveron has done very little advertisement during its life. One or two 'interviews' by randy and a handful of game web site 'reviews' are pretty much it. Probably the most successful 'advertisment' was the mpogd.com 'vote'. While this likely produced some new playerbase, it was far from a long term successful solution to promote Neveron. Better ways to promote Neveron to new players need to be developed in order for it to continue to be a successful game.
One way for example is 'Word of mouth'. I would love to see this game back to a point where the playerbase would see a fellow gamer and WANT to tell them about Neveron and how much they enjoy playing it. The Neveron 'promo code' program needs a serious overhaul. For those people willing to put the time and effort into promoting Neveron, I think they should get some sort of worthy in game compensation. I dont feel the current promo code system does that.
This is but a mere scratch on the surface of the things that need to be done to Neveron in order for it to have a successful future. Even after I purchase the game, it will be a slow process to begin turning things around. There will be no overnight miracles, there will not be 3 million players next month. There will be someone at the controls, trying to turn this great game back into something fun again.
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Pimpslap
Sergeant Major
Reged: 03/13/03
Posts: 365
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Re: Neveron Outages
[Re: ShadowMasterCM]
#159530 - 11/29/10 02:19 PM (74.196.96.143)
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The problem that Neveron has had, and will continue to have is the fact that it was made for IE5, and was hacked to work on IE 6. Neither of which are commonly available today. Trying to play neveron on the newest IE, or chrome or Firefox or any new generation browser leads to TONS of errors and is simply unplayable. With this in mind the entire game would need almost a total rewrite to bring it up to today's coding standards to simply put, make it playable.
Yes you don't need much to bring in new players. This is proven by the myriad of Facebook games which are simple as hell and bringing in tons. But to bring in players who actually stay and play the game enough to become donators on a large scale is harder to do. And with most of the bigger empires in game rotted will become even more hard.
IMO the best way to do this would be create a new image of the game starting completely fresh. Fix some issues with the old code and let the version of the game continue on, but start a new game over, with some fixes.
But again all this would have to be done after some rather extensive and money consuming recoding.
Can neveron make cash again? Sure, its not impossible that with a new owner and some fixes that the game might once again bring in players and money. But i seriously doubt the game will ever reach the heights it once had, nor the income with it.
As for why myself and others removed ourselves from the talks of financing a buy neveron operation. Well to me it was simple. I never once saw any type of plan or outline other then buy the game and then see what happens. Their was no type of outline or plan to how to go forward once the game was bought. This at least spoke to me that you lacked a understanding of many of the game faults, and how to fix them.
You and Randy included in this, seem to think that games are primarily built on the backs of new players. This is entirely untrue if you look at almost any popular MMO in today's market. Look at WoW, the game has been going strong for 6 years now, and many of the players that started 6 years ago are still today paying to play. Neveron's fault was in the lack of any need for players to pay after a certain point. Thats not the players fault, its the games.
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mattbuck
Eeyore
Reged: 02/13/04
Posts: 3285
Loc: Nottingham, UK
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Re: Neveron Outages
[Re: Pimpslap]
#159531 - 11/29/10 03:59 PM (128.243.253.116)
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I think the reason that other games haven't taken off in the same way Nev did is that they require different things from their players. 3042 and AOW are/were very much team games, and one player can make sod all difference it seems, not unless they pump thousands of dollars in, and even then the game is so damn SLOW. Nev was good because you start with jeeps, and you can immediately attack your neighbour and gain some land, have a fun little war then go home happy with your day's work. You could do that just as soon as you worked out the interface. Can't do that in 3042.
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ShadowMasterCM
Captain
Reged: 12/07/05
Posts: 916
Loc: New York
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Re: Neveron Outages
[Re: mattbuck]
#159532 - 11/29/10 09:34 PM (67.246.253.214)
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Pimp:
Thanks for your feedback. Lot of good stuff there. I dont recall talking directly with you about funding the purchase, but it sounds like you had access to most of the general information I tried to share with people considering to help fund the purchase.
I spoke directly with each person, who expressed an interest to me, in supporting the purchase. Each had a differnet level of interest, as well as understanding, of both technical and operational elements. So I would discuss things at different levels based on what the person wanted to know and what sort of questions were being asked. I spoke with people that were far technically superior to me, and I talked with others that were happy just to know someone would make sure the servers were working on a daily basis or tickets would again be dealt with.
As for being compatable with current browsers...I completly agree with you. Whatever the current version of IE, a browser based game needs to stay up to date with them. Hacking in temporary fixes works for the short term, but they are not meant to be built on. Neveron apparently has done exactly that. Ideally multi browser function would be great, but Id settle for IE only to keep the game up and running. As for 'tons' of errors, I have not personally seen much. I hope that players will again use the help ticket system and provide details of browser related errors they are seeing.
The trouble I see most often is when the game is simply begining to crash and about to go offline. Other commomn issues are 'time out' related, which Im not really sure I would say are outdated browser issues, but they still need to be addressed. Then of course there are the loop holes and other such abuses, which again Im not sure Id classify them as browser issues, but they most certainly need to be addressed.
Now about long term players who donate on a larger scale. I guess I didnt make my point very well about where the majority of the revenue of Neveron comes from. I am not making any presumptions about NEW players. Im looking at the trends in historical records. Historically, most players donate far more as new players, rather than after they have played for a while.
'Large' donating veteran players are few and far between, and still only comprise a smaller percentage of total anual revenues. This is not to say that this income is insignificant, as every revenue dollar is an important one.
How ever, from a business perspective, is it smart to spend 60% of your efforts to appeal to a specific player niche that only provides 20% of your income revenue?
Every person is different...some players will never donate, and of course there are some that have far to much time and money on thier hands. The entire point of subscriptions was trying to get a player to provide a more stable source of income rather than inconsistant, emotional, splurge spending which was more typical of the average veteran player.
I personally think that a healthy game needs a mix of a variety of people. A mix of people that come from all walks of life. Players like the hard core CBT types for one. Then there is the opposite extreme, the casual noob who stumbled on Neveron, after searching Google for 'free internet games'. That is exactly how I found Neveron in 2005, and Ive been hooked, and donating, ever since.
The reality of it is that every person has a point where the interest in anything runs out, and they move on to new things. Neveron is no different.
If you read my previous comments again, you will see that I mentioned that player retention is also as important. This is something that I feel Neveron of old had failed at miserably. It is how ever foolish to think that a perfect game can be created, and that every veteran player would then sign up for $100 subscriptions and stay forever.
The reality is that every player is human, and as such has certain 'rules of nature' to them. Limited attention span for example creates limited life cycle, in any game or product. This is especially true in todays instant gratification world. Players will come and players will go.
So from that perspective, new players are vital for the survival of any game. Even WoW is not the success they are based solely on its player retentions. New players Im sure are an equally large part of its sucess.
Another reality about human nature, is that we are all very different beasts. There will never be a 'perfect' Neveron, that will please all players at all times.
As owner, I will strive to create the best game experience for the broadest base of players. Long term benefits will be more important than short term turmoil. This will cause some players to quit along the way, even 'paying' ones. Such is life.
So when looking at those points, I dont think its the players 'fault', nor is it the games. It is what it is, and in order to be successful, you need to plan accordingly.
Neveron is actually 'marketed' as a free game. From that perspective, there are a lot of players that initially check out the game and never intend to spend a penny. I was most certainly that type of player when I first played as a noob. After a few weeks, my one time donations started. Next thing I knew I had a subscription.
People spend hard earned money everyday to buy pink virtual cows on facebook. The key to Neveron's future success is to find ways to make supporting the game appealing to any player. Maybe we should dress our Perfect Pilots in pink undies. :O)
I agree that Neveron will take a LOT of work to get back to making decent income, let alone any where near its previous peak revenues. I would be very content to get Neveron back to half its old income. Im going to give it my best effort, and as I said before, we will have to wait and see what happens. There are no guarantee's in life.
As for a 'new' version of Neveron built from scratch or running seperate versions on different servers and all that...the idea has been brought up by Wayward_Son in the past and the majority of the 'veteran' players flat out said NO WAY.
As for any plans that I have, I intend to run the current version of Neveron to get started. I do however plan to create a seperate server to actually test things out on, before making any major half cocked changes to the actual game. I can also assure you that there will never be any 'overnight' changes made to the game unless there is a major abuse or security risk identified.
Im not ruling out the possibility of creating a rebuilt duplicate Neveron, but we will cross that bridge when we get to it. :O)
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KJI_3x6
Lieutenant
Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 650
Loc: Minnesota, North Korea
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Re: Neveron Outages
[Re: ShadowMasterCM]
#159533 - 11/30/10 10:54 AM (71.63.225.124)
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@SM
try using chrome and you will understand tons of errors.
basically, i log in and get a grey screen. thats it. no options to click anything, just grey screen. atleast when neveron is down i get that fun message. thus, when i decide to log into neveron to train my soldiers so my skills can go up, i have to go back to shitty ie, so i don't get the grey screen, but half the time the f[I wear pink panties]g game doesn;t work...so i wasted another vital part of my life with garbage ie.
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My d*** rumble in the jungle; your d*** got touched by your uncle.
My d*** double feature screen; your d*** went straight to dvd.
ME > you
Edited by ShadowMasterCM (11/30/10 01:30 PM)
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ShadowMasterCM
Captain
Reged: 12/07/05
Posts: 916
Loc: New York
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Re: Neveron Outages
[Re: KJI_3x6]
#159534 - 11/30/10 01:29 PM (67.246.253.214)
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well lets see, your getting errors using chrome, on a game that has clearly stated it is only compatable with IE...gee i wonder why you are seeing errors.
There are a few browser add ons that work with neveron
firefox i think uses CoralTab or IETab...cant recall which is the newer versions of those but basically they allow you to use a non IE browser to play Neveron
even at that if you use anything other than IE, you cant get upset at the game when it doesnt work as expected.
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Katrar
Major
Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 1314
Loc: Seattle, WA USA, Terra
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Re: Neveron Outages
[Re: ShadowMasterCM]
#159538 - 11/30/10 06:12 PM (67.170.89.133)
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So even investing potentially tens of thousands of dollars into this project, you are going to expect players to install browser add ons to mimic play on a 10 year old browser platform?
The point is this: "fixing" Neveron does not "fix" Neveron. You can't go back in time to a circumstance in which the majority of your users will have a stock browser that works with your product.
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The HoC Archive - Neveron's definitive historical document
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Goundry
Private
Reged: 05/23/07
Posts: 47
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Re: Neveron Outages
[Re: Katrar]
#159546 - 12/01/10 05:38 AM (80.254.146.68)
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i have to admit i still enjoy playing neveron more than Invasion or any of the others pritty much for the reasons mattbuck mentioned above, so i would like to see neveron rescued even if i have to use an older browser.
the big thing that people seem to be missing is that if neve desperatly needs new hardware and has unpaid bills, shouldnt randy and wws be dropping the price there asking for or even giving the game to any one willing to take on the debts
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ShadowMasterCM
Captain
Reged: 12/07/05
Posts: 916
Loc: New York
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Re: Neveron Outages
[Re: Goundry]
#159554 - 12/01/10 11:22 AM (67.246.253.214)
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Katrar:
I never said after I owned it that I expected them to use browser addons. I did say that I agree that multi browser support would be a good thing. If trying to create multi browser support creates trouble for the IE side of things, THEN multi browser support would get lower priority. Like anything else involved with the games future, things will have to be taken one step at a time.
I am also aware that the days of IE being the 'default' browser are at an end, and people today simply have more choices then ever before for browses. I did say that I will not spend a lot of effort trying to perfect every browser related issue for every browser created. Ideally the game in the future will support the top 2 or 3 browsers. What those top browsers will be when we get to that bridge to cross...who knows!
Those last comments were directed to KJI, who tried to give me examples of 'errors' that he currently gets when playing the game. He is not using a browser that the game supports. The entire topic of browser errors was brought up by Pimp. In my reply to him, I mentioned that I dont see a lot of browser errors, but I do see a lot of other problems, some more often than others, related to the games internal programs.
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ghostrider
Lieutenant
Reged: 03/26/10
Posts: 522
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Re: Neveron Outages
[Re: ShadowMasterCM]
#159556 - 12/01/10 10:40 PM (70.170.53.45)
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ok. so far i havent seen why I think the game has faded in peoples minds. The fact that the admins have ignored almost every single person in the game except the donators, and then promised miracles upon miracles without doing much (that was seen) to even fix the problems of the game. Right now people expect what they are getting. A game that is barely acknowledged by the people with the most to lose (well mainly the most) if it finally goes under.
The fact the game starts crashing and nothing is done until after a few days/weeks then rebooted tends to make people find other things. Bugs, and cheats tends to put even more people into a 'find something else' sort of mind. Someone that is actually gonna reboot before the major crash would be a big plus. Also actual fixes/investigations to see what went wrong would be a big step up. Log in to find what? A battle started 3 days ago and still nothing has started? Or find out that somehow your entire force is wiped off the face of the planet without taking a single enemy with you? then see the battle was started a couple of times when its an hd only zone.
For the browser problem... having somoene to actually try to bring it up to date with the latest version of things is a big start. Dont think its the browser causing the problems, but as sm said, the lack of real programming into making the code work with the new versions.
And shadow. Which ever route you choose will be ok. As I said before, people have spent thousands of hours and hundreds, if not thousands of dollars in some of the empires in the game. Giving that up will cause more then a few people to quit, no matter the outcome.
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