rantamplan
Sergeant Major
Reged: 03/26/03
Posts: 341
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Add BV to pop in top cities of a empire
#161124 - 04/07/11 02:21 AM (84.127.228.231)
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I recently read a post on how to counter tent city empires by surrendering them for lossing certain amount of land.
Well, i think that while it might work this is going to work much better and increase neveron fun by being able to actually fight enemy forces.
The idea es simple: just add the BV of a certain zone to the population in it, and then order them in the top cities empires.
You want to have 100 126 pop cityes? ok but then you 20K army is going to highlight like a lighthouse.
I think that this rule would also help condensing empires, since for defending you army you need to concentrate forces in a more defendible area, either that or leave them in a hot drop position only and risk to have people mobilicing them once and again until they decide to drop on you and have a funny battle.
in other words: people complain about not having an actual fight almost ever: This is the solution for that.
And of course you are still free to hide your attacking force "somewhere" just by having big cityes with decent defences on in. Then you are free to place your mechs anywhere without risk of they showing on your city list.
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cbtgod
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 1813
Loc: IN A BOX UNDER A HOUSE
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Re: Add BV to pop in top cities of a empire
[Re: rantamplan]
#161126 - 04/07/11 05:00 AM (173.171.168.13)
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i already think their i was to much info given out in the leaders info tbh its no ones bizz. all i see in this post is another way my mech forces will be wiped out at 3am? the days of act person on person battles in neveron are rare indeed. login abuse, cheaters, loophole users all helped in this. 2nd was soi. now it seems in the most part all people want to do is walk in and wipe out you stuff for FUN. i suggest to the player base to go play mechwarrior. neveron is not mech mechwarrior. we have more restrictions on us in this game now than ever. seems all you want to do is be able to find mechs so you dont have to work to find them? so going by your great idea....if i have an empire that wants to keep his main forces in his RB zone. so i have 50 pop with a 12k batt. you would like it to pop up as a 12050 zone? wtf are you on?. lmfao l8rs DABOSS
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yes its a toad, if you didnt know that you dont know anything about cbt
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rantamplan
Sergeant Major
Reged: 03/26/03
Posts: 341
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Re: Add BV to pop in top cities of a empire
[Re: cbtgod]
#161127 - 04/07/11 06:53 AM (84.127.161.179)
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First of: Be polite.
Secondly: I dont want to kill your mechs.
Thirdly: I have allways played as said above (both with high and low lvls empires) my units has allways been with my infra and never had a tent city empire, somehow I managed to survive and succeed in this game.
And yes I got attacked by night with my forces being "there" and nothing happened.
People just have to learn how to defend, thats all.
And talking about people to people relations: I once had a lvl 5 war with pancho, his empire was being piloted by KD, I dropped a mech on one of his tent cityes, he dropped 2 mechs on my mech, I trapped his mechs with 2 battallions of guardians.
Then KD praised the maneuver (becouse it was a really cool maneuver that doesnīt worth to explain).
I agreed to wait until pancho came back for talking about his trapping mech force.
I retreated the hunters only with the word of KD of he not moving the mechs from where they were.
I leaved the game and went to work (leaving my hunters exposed), then at night talked with pancho and we agreed to end the war sparing his mechs from destruction (or my hunters, who knows).
In other words: People to people relations and not having your forces killed by night depend more on you (defences) and how you behave with your enemy (politeness: remind my first sentence) than anything else, both of us could have treasoned the other side and killed his army while unpiloted, but none of us did.
SO, no, this is not a way for killing your mechs, this is a way for making the game funnier (not having to hunt down 300 zones for finding a 25cf tower to kill and after 4 days of zone dropping find that enemy self surrenders becouse you are getting close to the mechs).
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cbtgod
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 1813
Loc: IN A BOX UNDER A HOUSE
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Re: Add BV to pop in top cities of a empire
[Re: rantamplan]
#161130 - 04/07/11 08:01 AM (173.171.168.13)
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that was polite now here rudes...this is a war game. units should be able to be hidden period. what you ask for is bullshit plain and simple learn to play the game. i could care less who you have battled. you obv dont know **** on how to play. dont like how the player base WAS forced to adapt go play online pokemon. toodles l8rs DABOSS
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yes its a toad, if you didnt know that you dont know anything about cbt
Edited by ShadowMasterCM (04/09/11 06:32 PM)
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rantamplan
Sergeant Major
Reged: 03/26/03
Posts: 341
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Re: Add BV to pop in top cities of a empire
[Re: cbtgod]
#161131 - 04/07/11 10:10 AM (84.127.161.179) Attachment (43 downloads)
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LoL...
Learn... to play... the game...
You could discuss if the idea is good or bad...
Instead of acting stupidly and being seen as stupid by anyone who reads that, you could actually try to find reasons or arguments why I had a bad idea... that would help everyone (myself incuded).
But no, you just acuse me of not knowing anything about the game as your only argument... giving my low profile I supose thats enough for trashing my idea...
I canīt say much to defend my "nev-curriculum", but here are a few links:
http://hocgaming.com/hocarchive/files/hocarchive.pdf
(Check for "mantis" there, you can then check for "daboss" and see who is more refered)
You then can check this link:
http://www.sarna.net/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/56761/an//page/vc/vc/1
You can also see an attached file with neveron public mail with what people said when I took the decision of leaving (wich I mostly did but ím still here playing some experimental empires).
For anyone reading this: iīm not saying that my idea is good just becouse of my name or for what I did in the past, My idea is just an idea and can be discused or considered (or not), and of course can be argumented against.
But just being unpolite and saying stupid things.... well... itīs stupid.
--Mantis--
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KJI_3x6
Lieutenant
Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 650
Loc: Minnesota, North Korea
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Re: Add BV to pop in top cities of a empire
[Re: rantamplan]
#161132 - 04/07/11 10:49 AM (71.193.82.41)
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lets calm this down a tad eh kids?
we don;t need to get upity and spaztic screaming who doesn;t know about whos **** or whatever. if your going to criticize his ideas, fine, but going off on a tangent like that daboss, c'mon man, weak form.
with that, i do not like the idea of bv showing up as "pop" that would just lead to people being even more interested in accosting you at 3 am trying to catch you asleep. i am sure there are and always will be honorable people playing neveron, the vast majority are not, and would jump at the ability to crush an empires bv with little to no opposition.
KJI - 100% REAL MAN
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My d*** rumble in the jungle; your d*** got touched by your uncle.
My d*** double feature screen; your d*** went straight to dvd.
ME > you
Edited by ShadowMasterCM (04/09/11 06:34 PM)
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Toten
Sergeant
Reged: 03/18/08
Posts: 147
Loc: Australia
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Re: Add BV to pop in top cities of a empire
[Re: KJI_3x6]
#161133 - 04/07/11 11:43 AM (118.208.155.79)
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Mantis as always you've produced a valid plan/idea, worth more thought. You've hit the nail on the head.
DABOSS you'd learn alot about this game if you listened to Mantis. Perhaps you may even learn Spanish.
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To secure peace is to prepare for war.
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ghostrider
Lieutenant
Reged: 03/26/10
Posts: 522
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Re: Add BV to pop in top cities of a empire
[Re: Toten]
#161137 - 04/07/11 12:47 PM (70.170.53.45)
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I would say that adding bv into the top cities listed on the empire data sheet isnt a good idea for a few reasons.
1. Being that an assault bv only zone would show up long before the persons top pop city. This would give the attacker the advantage of hitting it whenever they thought was a good idea. Yes, it would stop alot of the ability to tent, but with most of the long time player having their hd only cores that couldnt be taken by the forces allowed from a single drop, a huge advantage over the new player.
2. Most cities on the top pop list have bv in them unless the person is completely clueless, or hiding it all for counter attacks when they hit a cf.
I do agree that most people will take the opportunity to hit your bv when off line, and sometimes bpers arent available.
I do like the idea because you wouldnt have to spend hundreds of millions in hds to find someone that has 500+ zones in a level 2/3.
Maybe a suggestion to this would be add in defensive bv to the city pop, but leave moble bv out of it. This would probably give away someones assault storage zone, since most have some sort of towers in there as well.
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rantamplan
Sergeant Major
Reged: 03/26/03
Posts: 341
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Re: Add BV to pop in top cities of a empire
[Re: ghostrider]
#161138 - 04/07/11 01:09 PM (84.127.161.179)
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I do understand your complain about 3am Bv hunters and I recognice that there must be some way of reasonabily being able to hide your attacking force.
What i dont see reasonable is empire after empires having no defence force, one "town" made of 50 cotages here and another in libia while the 3rd in China and still be considered a unified country/empre,those empires having huge armies (cosidering their side) ina remote area receiving supplies from several thousands kilometers away (from those cotages) and still being a viable attacking force.
I dont feel itīs realistic and while I can withstand that in any game (games donīt have to be realistic) I feel that its a huge problem in current game fun.
But comming back to "finding reasonable that people should have a chance of hidding his forces", lets say to add to any zone 1/10th of the actual BV of the forces deployed there.
That way a lvl 4 with 10K pop and 10K BV can have his mech force hided as long as it has 4 or more 1k (or bigger) cityes.
You then can coice, either to defend your infra or save you army for fighting after the first CF.
The good point here is that you are going to actually fight or either after 2 CF your army will be shown on your zones and teh attacking force knows for sure that either he is going to find some actual fight or the enemy will surrender ina few real days (not wasting hours and hours or tent city hunting).
Defender still has the chance of self surrendering before engaging enemy forces and can have some "creative options" of hiding his attack force by placing each mech in a different location each (so a 200-300 pop city will hide most of them) but making easier for an attacker to find them (becouse there would be more zones with mechs) and kill them one by one.
Iīm not sure if this idea is the best idea that we could implement, but Iīm sure that this game needs some way of balancing empires between somethign that is reasonably funny to attack and have reasonably chances of an actual fight and still not giving a 100% chances of killing enemy forces in the first blow.
I think that with the 1/10th correction we have a quite decent rule.
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Cray
General
Reged: 07/27/01
Posts: 4131
Loc: North America
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Re: Add BV to pop in top cities of a empire
[Re: cbtgod]
#161139 - 04/07/11 01:10 PM (147.160.136.10)
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Quote:
that was polite now here rudes...
Rule 6, dude.
--------------------
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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cbtgod
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 1813
Loc: IN A BOX UNDER A HOUSE
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Re: Add BV to pop in top cities of a empire
[Re: Cray]
#161141 - 04/07/11 02:05 PM (173.171.168.13)
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i know exactly who you are in hoc could care less.i used to be in hoc. this idea does nothing to help a defensive empire one bit. all it does is again help an attacking empire find units. you guys can **** and moan all day about tents. tents are due to login abusers, cheaters, and 3 am bv hunters. players have had to adapt. so tents came into play why is this so hard to figure out? tbh all people will do is dump crappy vechs, and towers in these zones. and than you guys will moan about that? all i here is a lot of cry baby stuff about i cant find units to kill? you not supposed to find units that easy. i dont see any advantages to this idea for the defensive empire guys. with SOI and other restrictions in this game. tbh depending on the lvl of the empire i dont see what the problem is. obv the lack of the zoom option dsnt help to find poss hiding spots. im my exp the higher the empire act the harder to find core units. the lower the easier. due to the costs of owning tons of zones with no pop costs you big time in a small empire. thier is already to much info given out in the leader info imho. and going by your idea. you would act be able to goto the map and see the act city zone dsnt match the pop ratio. if i have a 10k batt in a 1k city. the city graphics it self wouldnt match. so now i would know where poss units are an unfair advantage for an attacker. l8rs DABOSS
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yes its a toad, if you didnt know that you dont know anything about cbt
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rantamplan
Sergeant Major
Reged: 03/26/03
Posts: 341
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Re: Add BV to pop in top cities of a empire
[Re: cbtgod]
#161143 - 04/07/11 02:37 PM (84.127.161.179)
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cbtgod sincerelly: RELAX.
"i know exactly who you are in hoc could care less" seems so, becouse Im no longer HoC, nowadays im completelly neutral.
"all i here is a lot of cry baby stuff about i cant find units to kill?" --> Saying that about me itīs plain stupid (once more) the last attack I made was... ŋ2 years ago? GBWs against Mags empire, it was a defensive war. My last ofensive war dates from when fwars were mandatory. I canīt remember any war i started just becouse i wanted to kill something (I did started them for checking and testing certain strategies).
Iīm not interested in finding units to kill, becouse Iīm not interested in killing stuff (and never was) I love this game becouse itīs strategical posibilities and my only intent with this idea is to make the game funnier to everyone, you can agree or disagree with it, you can argument for or against it, but what you are doing is just leaving you in complete ridiculous.
"you would act be able to goto the map and see the act city zone dsnt match the pop ratio. if i have a 10k batt in a 1k city" --> or you could just draw the city in teh map as if it had 2K pop (following the 1/10th correction) and your problem is solved.
Sincerely, relax, no one is attacking you personaly here and no one is trying to find you precious mechs, nor moaning against tents or crying about not being able to kill stuff, so stop bringing this to the personal area becouse you seem to want see me attacking you personally just for increasing the nev hate (wich is what we donīt need).
Iīm not going to fall into that, never did in the past when i had real interests in the game and you are not goign to be an exception.
This is just a constructive idea, that might be a good or a bad idea, until now it seems that most people think that itīs a bad idea ŋofence on my side? None, if people donīt like it, donīt like it, thats all.
And now, either be polite and construcive or please: shut up.
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ghostrider
Lieutenant
Reged: 03/26/10
Posts: 522
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Re: Add BV to pop in top cities of a empire
[Re: rantamplan]
#161147 - 04/07/11 06:25 PM (70.170.53.45)
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actually, that goes back to the problems of sp vs pop. if you based how much sp an empire generates, it should be based on the large pop cities as opposed to the low pop cities spread around the world. Also, the no defense cities should revolt or cause a major moral issue for not having anything guarding them.
Its a good idea, just needs some tweaking. I agree that it should be a little easier to find the bv of an empire then it is, but short of adding in spys or something like it, the tents will remain very popular. Another possibility would be limiting the number of zones an empire can have..
Using an alternative version of this, maybe it should be required to have some sort of forces in every city an empire owns. This would limit tent cities, but force more people into the hd only cores, which is another problem, but for a different thread.
And mantis, you are attacking the very defense most attack bv only empires out there. Daboss does have a point with it, since there are the abusers/cheaters in the game so willing to break the rules to destroy someones mechs. With active admins, cheaters are more likely to get the boot from the game, but until it stops, i would be very aggressive in defence of not having my dp only assault force easy to find.
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cbtgod
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 1813
Loc: IN A BOX UNDER A HOUSE
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Re: Add BV to pop in top cities of a empire
[Re: ghostrider]
#161148 - 04/07/11 08:06 PM (173.171.168.13)
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who said i was pissed? who said this was aimed at you? i referd to the statement as "you guys" not you. im not worried about people attacking me nor you doing it? i didnt take anything in here personel what so ever. i refuse to be part of the mambi pambi hoc hate group bs. i have friends in hoc and not. *sigh* as i had stated to cray in my pm after he spanked me for being an evil forum person. im a blunt, to the point. no sugar coated guy .but these people in life are always labled a-holes. this is me being polite lmao. and i wont shut up, its called an opinion. dont have to like it, but it should be respected period. ive brought up valid points nothing more. l8rs DABOSS
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yes its a toad, if you didnt know that you dont know anything about cbt
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KJI_3x6
Lieutenant
Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 650
Loc: Minnesota, North Korea
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Re: Add BV to pop in top cities of a empire
[Re: cbtgod]
#161149 - 04/07/11 09:53 PM (71.193.82.41)
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there is a difference between blunt/to the point and needlessly offensive. i've been accosted on numerous occasions here for being the latter, but really, if i put in any effort i can express myself without being offensive, so, man up son, (deleted upon re-reading)
KJI - 100% REAL MAN
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My d*** rumble in the jungle; your d*** got touched by your uncle.
My d*** double feature screen; your d*** went straight to dvd.
ME > you
Edited by KJI_3x6 (04/07/11 09:54 PM)
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Katrar
Major
Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 1314
Loc: Seattle, WA USA, Terra
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Re: Add BV to pop in top cities of a empire
[Re: cbtgod]
#161150 - 04/07/11 10:04 PM (76.28.186.150)
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I don't think this is a good idea at all. If anything I think Nev needs -more- anonymity of empires and their zones, not less. I have to add a pretty huge caveat though: the current stagnant situation with regards to war is the fault of coded surrender IE fight to the death! Nev used to be all about the meta. Meta effects of an action. Meta solutions (negotiations, deplimacy, etc). Fights weren't over an empire's surrender (and therefore artificially prolonged to the detriment of everyone and the game), they were over specific zones and they ended when they ended. Usually very quickly.
If the need to fight until surrender is removed, and players regain the ability to start and end wars at their discretion WITHOUT PENALTY, the "problem" of the tent empire becomes moot. When a step is taken back, the tent empire is only an issue because of the difficulty in surrendering it in a cost effective manner. Well, if there is no need to surrender an emp (or if surrender is an artificial tool to limit empire destruction as originally advertised, rather than a race to avoid a penalty for the attacker as it actually is), then that emp's zones simply become an economic liability.
Back in the day, when most of us admit to having had the most fun on Nev, details on an emp were scant. Sure it made it a bit of a chore to find zones, but it served a greater purpose: anonymity was a shield that kept many empires safe for years when today they would be raped into oblivion in days or weeks.
What makes war unfun, and causes a lot of people to avoid it (myself included) these days - when of course war works - is the laughable imbalance. Imbalance isn't the right word. How about the incredible disgrace that is landwar on nev what with death star mech mods, and code enforced wars to the death.
So... please lets not expand the already significant intel we are spoon fed on the empires of our enemies. For the good that might come of it, I fear equal amounts of ill.
And daboss, see, it's possible to object to an idea without resorting to complete douchebaggery in the process. I think Mantis's idea is a bit nutty, but that doesn't preclude me from simply stating my objections and letting ideas stand or fall on their own merit. Least of all to mention that Mantis is an awesome dude, and a great asset to the nev community.
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HoC Gaming - Come war with us!
The HoC Archive - Neveron's definitive historical document
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rantamplan
Sergeant Major
Reged: 03/26/03
Posts: 341
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Re: Add BV to pop in top cities of a empire
[Re: Katrar]
#161151 - 04/08/11 01:25 AM (84.127.228.231)
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mothing wrong on people considering the idea is not a good idea, iīll think on something else :P.
Other than that i still want to say somethign else, becouse I dont like when people say one thing and then just the oposite, something you just have to say "sorry" instead of defend the indefendible:
Cbtgod:
--> "who said this was aimed at you?"
"seems all you want to do is be able to find mechs so you dont have to work to find them?"
"so going by your great idea..."
"wtf are you on?"
"what you ask for is bullshit plain and simple learn to play the game."
"you obv dont know **** on how to play"
--> "i didnt take anything in here personel what so ever."
"all i see in this post is another way my mech forces will be wiped out at 3am?"
--> this is me being polite lmao.
"wtf are you on?. lmfao "
"that was polite now here rudes..."
"learn to play the game."
"you obv dont know **** on how to play"
"you guys can **** and moan all day about tents."
"all i here is a lot of cry baby stuff about i cant find units to kill?"
believe me when i say that iīm being a lot patient with you, just trying to show you that your actitude is what makes nev hating between players growth, we all have to behave if we want to decrease it.
A "sorry" sometimes is a perfectly aceptable content for a forum post.
Edited by ShadowMasterCM (04/09/11 06:43 PM)
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Cray
General
Reged: 07/27/01
Posts: 4131
Loc: North America
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Re: Add BV to pop in top cities of a empire
[Re: rantamplan]
#161154 - 04/08/11 11:40 AM (147.160.136.10)
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Quote:
Cbtgod:
--> "who said this was aimed at you?"
"seems all you want to do is be able to find mechs so you dont have to work to find them?"
"so going by your great idea..."
"wtf are you on?"
"what you ask for is bullshit plain and simple learn to play the game."
"you obv dont know dick on how to play"
--> "i didnt take anything in here personel what so ever."
"all i see in this post is another way my mech forces will be wiped out at 3am?"
--> this is me being polite lmao.
"wtf are you on?. lmfao "
"that was polite now here rudes..."
"learn to play the game."
"you obv dont know dick on how to play"
"you guys can **** and moan all day about tents."
"all i here is a lot of cry baby stuff about i cant find units to kill?"
An excellent summary. All that **** is why you got a PM, cbtgod. Those statements were not "blunt," they were pointlessly confrontational. If you don't throttle the "confrontational" part back until you're simply "blunt," then you're facing a week's ban.
--------------------
Mike Miller, Materials Engineer
Disclaimer: Anything stated in this post is unofficial and non-canon unless directly quoted from a published book. Random internet musings of a BattleTech writer are not canon.
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KJI_3x6
Lieutenant
Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 650
Loc: Minnesota, North Korea
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Re: Add BV to pop in top cities of a empire
[Re: Cray]
#161156 - 04/09/11 12:08 AM (71.193.82.41)
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cray = greatest mod ever!
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My d*** rumble in the jungle; your d*** got touched by your uncle.
My d*** double feature screen; your d*** went straight to dvd.
ME > you
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buc
Captain
Reged: 08/12/05
Posts: 710
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Re: Add BV to pop in top cities of a empire
[Re: KJI_3x6]
#161326 - 05/09/11 02:41 PM (125.239.226.35)
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So I finally found a moment to read this 
First, Mantis would be a top 10 ever nev war machine!
2nd, Daboss is a good guy who speaks his mind (too much)
3rd, this is a terrible idea 
There are a number of 'rules' that this would be trying to solve. SOI, Tents, Walls etc - even forced ABR. I think there are far more constructive ways of dealing directly with those issues, without creating new ones. I know Mantis isn't focused on killing stuff, but many are.
IMO, the removal of forced ABR would be a great start!
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wonko
Sergeant Major
Reged: 03/08/06
Posts: 273
Loc: park city UT
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Re: Add BV to pop in top cities of a empire
[Re: buc]
#162169 - 09/30/11 06:41 AM (76.23.60.40)
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thank god for buc.....in this case the voice of reason
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Democrats are the root of all evil
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