Katrar
Major
Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 1314
Loc: Seattle, WA USA, Terra
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Re: Terrain Reset
[Re: Katrar]
#162899 - 12/20/11 05:52 AM (76.28.186.150)
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Also, just as a long time player, its maddening to me to see 85% of old Nev's problems solvable with a melding of old and new. Things like CF's for instance eliminate the overnight empire destruction. Most of the biggest complaints about old nev are solved to some degree or another by modern developments. A working idea for the merging of old and new has pretty much been laid out by the vast majority of old players, who 99% unanimously agree on the reasoning and worth of the suggestions. People that remember when the game was fun. To find a way to integrate the two games... old and new... as described by these players seems less difficult than developing entirely new systems and entirely new code. That's frustrating to me.
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HoC Gaming - Come war with us!
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Maghetti123
Sergeant Major
Reged: 05/01/04
Posts: 203
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Re: Terrain Reset
[Re: Katrar]
#162903 - 12/20/11 08:38 AM (184.1.118.183)
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I could type to you a long multi-paragraph response but instead I will say these two things briefly. The complaints directed at you SM is that you appear to not really be looking at neveron in the ways you claim to be, you can't counter the thing in question with the thing in question
Also, on your part about attacking any level empire, you still do not understand what the concept is, so your mentioning it here is a bit uncalled for. With that said, I have altered it, removing the idea of bigger empires attacking smaller empires for nev cash and added it to my ideas page for opening up war I would like your thoughts on. The thread is called "Removing Restrictions to Land War."
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Maghetti123
Sergeant Major
Reged: 05/01/04
Posts: 203
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Re: Terrain Reset
[Re: Katrar]
#162906 - 12/20/11 09:12 AM (184.1.118.183)
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Yes Kato I feel the same. It is pretty much agreed to by 99% of people on exactly how to mix together old nev and new nev to solve nevs problems, only person not on the same page seems to be SM. It is a bit frustrating.
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TRK
Sergeant Major
Reged: 11/05/02
Posts: 254
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Re: Terrain Reset
[Re: Maghetti123]
#162907 - 12/20/11 10:53 AM (208.118.89.26)
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He doesn't get it guys, will he ever?
I hope so, but it is not looking good.
To answer you SM (of course feel free to ignore one of your players).
■Have I removed all the ammoless towers from my empire? It has been stated that those towers will be fixed and I will have literally towers with no ammo defending my cities!
Yes, it took about two months for a lvl 7. God help the level 12's. Not surprising if they are not done.
■Have I started to work on the list of zones in my empires that I do NOT want the terrain reset in? Will I be happy when my entire core defenses get nuetralized because I failed to prep a list of exemptions?
No, you got me on that one.
■Have I started planning my new offensive units to replace the upgraded units I currently have in my empires? Will I suddenly find myself with a bunch of average mechs defending my empire all of a sudden?
Yes.
■Have I started to think about how my empire defenses will be impacted when the Auto Claim SOI program is rolled out? How will the Auto Unclaim SOI portion impact my empires? Can my empire survive with out its walls as its main defenses?
Yes, no corner towers here! Again maybe a couple of months of mind numbing pleasure.
■Have I decided how I will manage my empire once the recylce bin loophole is fixed? What will I do with those hundreds to thousands of tanks hiding in there? What will happen to my empires income when I dont get that negative maintenance fee any longer?
Yes, I was going to donate for some doubled income zones, I guess you know that aint happening anymore.
I have also been playing this game for over 10 years. A few players have never left, some left for a short time, but we came back. Why SM? Seriously why in the hell would I play a game for 10 YEARS?
Quit lying to yourself, it is counter productive.
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Protege
Corporal
Reged: 04/19/06
Posts: 71
Loc: Bakore Village
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Re: Terrain Reset
[Re: ShadowMasterCM]
#162925 - 12/21/11 05:01 AM (65.87.44.157)
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Hi! You are going to delete the terrain I've spent MONTHS if not YEARS building up specific, not decommissionable defenses in so that I can RECREATE the terrain, spent MORE time doing it again, so you can scrap my defensive structure AGAIN when "THE DATABASE IS GETTING FULL! OMFG! RUN FOR COVER!!!"? How about a much simpler, quicker, tried-and-true solution:
DELETE ALL THE INACTIVE EMPIRES!!!
It's been a year. The old players coming back, have. The ones that haven't, won't. Now we need fresh blood, and a bunch of empires laying around taking up space and server time while contributing NOTHING to the game but lag from checks will NOT get new players.
TADA! Problem not solved, but it's a whole shot better than scrapping YEARS of peoples work due to admin decision. That's what got Randy in the mess he faced.
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I've stopped being nice? When the hell did I ever START being nice?
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Vindication
Corporal
Reged: 01/22/07
Posts: 53
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Re: Terrain Reset
[Re: TRK]
#162926 - 12/21/11 05:07 AM (65.87.44.157)
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resetting terrain with a list that may or may not be approved? why dont you just delete all empires in the game and be done with it? iirc Randy did the terrain reset on zones that had defenders in them and all the towers lined up in a nice straight line totaly screwing the defenses of the city and this was without any sort of notice. That particular day cost Nev a donator and long time player who's empire was immediatley attacked and wrecked because all of his defenses had been reset. how is it that admins cant seem to learn from the past and why would you seek advice from a former admin who walked away even while still making a lucrative income from the game he was tired of dealing with. Is anybody else seeing the problem here? He no longer owns the game why would he care what happens to it? SM you need to find better sources for info on coding not the band-aid crap the former owners used that you **** about constanly. take a annex course or a on-line course or get some help from players that have already offered, you can't have any more of a prob from the help than you have currently without it.
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Old age and Treachery
will overcome Youth
and skill
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ShadowMasterCM
Captain
Reged: 12/07/05
Posts: 916
Loc: New York
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Re: Terrain Reset
[Re: Vindication]
#162927 - 12/21/11 06:24 AM (24.103.210.226)
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Protege, you need to go reread the announcement. you clearly missed some key points in it
The 'inactive' empire data is in a seperate table, and contains an insignificant amount of data, that actually creates little, if any, lag to the game.
As I have stated before, the 10 largest empires in the game consume far more resources and create a significant amount of the games lag issues.
This is not the fault of the top empires, it is the fault of the way the game database and the code that interacts with it, simply said the 'games design'.
That however does not change the fact that in order for the game to grow, we need to find short term fixes until a long term solution can be put into place. Things like Terrain Resets are a short term fix. Reducing the size of the battle maps from 100 x 100 is a long term solution.
Vindication, the statement about approving the zones was to clarify that a zone would not be included simply because a player submitted it. The biggest issue I expect there is a player submitting every zone in their empire because they had placed a single tower in a single hole and considered that a 'set up defense'.
I do recall an issue about towers all lined up in the past. I dont recall that it had anything to do with a terrain reset. Gunner had stated that the past terrain resets had never included defened zones. Randy had stated he thought he reset all zones. Now your saying he did reset terrain with defenses. Can someone please confirm this? Is there an update to support your claim that this was a terrain reset issue Vindication?
To everyone:
The terrain database is one of the TOP reason for lag in the game. It is NOT the only reason for lag. In an effort to improve the overall game performance in the future, this sort of thing needs to be done, until a better solution can be developed and implemented into the game.
Please go read the original announcement again. I stated there that I don't think full terrain resets, specifically zones with defenses in place, is a good idea. That means I don't think it should be done to those zones. That was the point of the entire post. I asked players to get a list of zones they want 'protected' from a terrain reset.
Please be sure to read forum posts completely before posting some unneeded knee jerk reactions to them
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cbtgod
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 1813
Loc: IN A BOX UNDER A HOUSE
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Re: Terrain Reset
[Re: ShadowMasterCM]
#162933 - 12/21/11 08:18 AM (173.168.109.218)
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*sigh* its called a client? please look into this aspect. l8rs DABOSS
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yes its a toad, if you didnt know that you dont know anything about cbt
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TRK
Sergeant Major
Reged: 11/05/02
Posts: 254
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Re: Terrain Reset
[Re: cbtgod]
#162935 - 12/21/11 09:32 AM (208.118.89.26)
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Knowing the past of a computer system, what was done, how it was done etc is very usefull.
Does it really matter what was done with the terrain before?
One side or the other perhaps wants to "win" this argument, but really, does it matter today? Or should SM perhaps try some "test" terrian resets, maybe few large volunteer empires. Get rid of a few hundred thousand terrain creations, see how it goes.
Problems with computer systems can be complex and unpredictable at times. No one knows everything. "Fixing" one thing may break something else. I am pretty sure this is why IT people test things, sometimes for years before implementation.
I think arguing over what was done in the past is a waste of time. Simply being aware that such things may happen should be enough.
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ghostrider
Lieutenant
Reged: 03/26/10
Posts: 522
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Re: Terrain Reset
[Re: TRK]
#162937 - 12/21/11 10:23 AM (70.173.25.223)
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Well I never researched nor built any ammoless towers. So no problems there.
I have about 6 cities in all my empires that would be affected by the terrain reset.
The auto soi effect would have no affect on me except lower my land costs.
I do not have anything in the recycle bins, so no effect there.
When doing the zone reset, it might be a good idea to eliminate the 4+level changes next to each other.
I can see where a few people have the idea that you are not listening to them, because of a lack of the full big picture. There are a few things that will happen even though its the worst thing in the players minds that could. There are a few things that would seem like the worst thing for the owner side. I can tell that a few people do NOT want certain changes, because that means changing the way they play.
Want a fun game without all the hassles. Cities can not be taken, only held during the current war. No more having to rebuild/find new zones. Income from a city goes to the current owner, with the option to loot it. Set the surrender to include only bv, with a full paying surrender if all cities are taken. Empires that dont actually protect cities, have moral problems and possible desertions, such as cities and units. Might even put in riots to avoid the attack only bv empires. Put the empires on a more even level, and the game becomes more fun for all, not just a certain few that have mastered the ability to exploit flaws in the game.
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Gunner
Sergeant Major
Reged: 07/11/04
Posts: 365
Loc: Hurricane Capital of the World
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Re: Terrain Reset
[Re: ghostrider]
#162947 - 12/21/11 02:26 PM (173.65.23.244)
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Actually, that was correct, I recall all the towers in empires getting lined up in the middle of the zone. They allowed us to scrap our towers with no penalty to fix it, and then they filtered out all zones with units or towers or cities for future terrain resets.
However, I propse this instead. Instead of making us provide a list of our zones, just do as Randy did, and filter out zones with defending units placed, such as towers. Clear terrain on all unclaimed zones, and empty ones. No player should have to redo their defenses that they have already painstakingly placed once due to a terrain reset. Personally, I spent an entire weeks vacation earlier this year planning out my defenses and placing many of them. I have notebooks full of terrain info and listing what I want as a priority defense in my cities. There are tons of empty zones out there with terrain created for no reason, they were fought over more then 5 years ago. Clear those, not the ones people put time and effort into.
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It's a bird...It's a plane...Goddamit! It's another NUKE!
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buc
Captain
Reged: 08/12/05
Posts: 710
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Re: Terrain Reset
[Re: Gunner]
#162949 - 12/21/11 02:55 PM (222.153.236.231)
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The number of zones that actually have units in them would be a very small % of the total number of zones with terrain created. It is ABSOLUTELY ridiculous to make players go through EVERY emp they own, to look at EVERY ZONE they want to keep terrain in.
Bloody ridiculous
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TRK
Sergeant Major
Reged: 11/05/02
Posts: 254
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Re: Terrain Reset
[Re: buc]
#162951 - 12/21/11 03:09 PM (173.181.67.112)
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Well, I sent in my list for my main empire. I am not going to send in for the others as they are already ruined by the pop bug and I have written them off. Not sure if anyone else is in the same boat.
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cbtgod
Lieutenant Colonel
Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 1813
Loc: IN A BOX UNDER A HOUSE
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Re: Terrain Reset
[Re: TRK]
#162956 - 12/21/11 08:12 PM (173.168.109.218)
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my empires still bent so as TRK has pointed out whats the diff? l8rs DABOSS
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yes its a toad, if you didnt know that you dont know anything about cbt
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buc
Captain
Reged: 08/12/05
Posts: 710
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Re: Terrain Reset
[Re: cbtgod]
#162984 - 12/22/11 04:49 PM (222.153.236.231)
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I'm not going to send in a list. Partly cause I can't be assed, but also to see if SM is going to be so stupid to do city zones and zones with units. My other option was to send him a list with all the zones.
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Katrar
Major
Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 1314
Loc: Seattle, WA USA, Terra
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Re: Terrain Reset
[Re: buc]
#163009 - 12/23/11 01:27 AM (76.28.186.150)
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To be honest, I'm probably not going to be poring over zone lists by the 31st either. For a couple reasons. One, its just one too many things that have dropped like bombs over the past week or two. Two, its the holidays, I have better things to do until the new year. Three, I am trusting SM not to nuke zones with defenses and cities. If he does, I know I won't be the only person sorely disappointed. Will it be all my fault? Technically. But really, no, it won't.
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HoC Gaming - Come war with us!
The HoC Archive - Neveron's definitive historical document
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KJI_3x6
Lieutenant
Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 650
Loc: Minnesota, North Korea
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Re: Terrain Reset
[Re: Katrar]
#163010 - 12/23/11 01:52 AM (75.72.9.83)
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Quote:
To be honest, I'm probably not going to be poring over zone lists by the 31st either. For a couple reasons. One, its just one too many things that have dropped like bombs over the past week or two. Two, its the holidays, I have better things to do until the new year. Three, I am trusting SM not to nuke zones with defenses and cities. If he does, I know I won't be the only person sorely disappointed. Will it be all my fault? Technically. But really, no, it won't.
this.
and my biggest empire is a level 2....i got better things to do.
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My d*** rumble in the jungle; your d*** got touched by your uncle.
My d*** double feature screen; your d*** went straight to dvd.
ME > you
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