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Toscotto
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help tickets part 3
      #165248 - 05/02/12 09:33 PM (24.19.129.178)

"Now Im closing this dead topic...again "

not dead mate - I would say misunderstood. Here is the concern that people are too angry to be able to express in terms that people other than them can understand.

Players have no idea what tickets are "moved to the back of the line" to paraphrase. All they see is a ticket that is not being answered, and seeing and hearing that others are taken care of first -

a bit of advice - CLOSE all the tickets that are unintelligible or lacking necessary info (possibly also the suposedly cryptic tickets from multiple empires but from the same player that has issues spanning several empires). Simply send a canned message that is something like "this ticket is being closed due to lack of necessary info for it to be processed, please resubmit more detailed information so that the issue can be properly addressed."

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Toscotto
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Re: help tickets part 3 [Re: Toscotto]
      #165249 - 05/02/12 09:35 PM (24.19.129.178)

and if something is in process - tell the requestor - a this ticket is being researched thank you for your patience reply would be awesome...

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The question is not how far, the question is do you possess the constitution, the depth of faith, to go as far as needed?


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Rallis
Private


Reged: 03/14/12
Posts: 34
Re: help tickets part 3 [Re: Toscotto]
      #165250 - 05/02/12 09:38 PM (99.26.68.88)

SM from help tickets part 2: "Food for thought tho..."

Shadowmaster confirmed being also NeverSayNever ... hmm interesting


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Katrar
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Posts: 1312
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Re: help tickets part 3 [Re: Rallis]
      #165251 - 05/02/12 09:59 PM (24.17.137.174)

I guess we have to start with the basics with SM.

1. If a ticket doesnt have the right information, take 3 seconds to ask for the right information. Perhaps the ticket maker doesn't know what is useful to you.

2. If a ticket needs to be "back burnered" at least have the COMMON DECENCY to write a one line response thanking them and letting them know you read it. Is it that hard to understand why this is a good idea. Randy/SM used to do this. SM you do NOT, and what the hell for. If people don't get answers and days turn to weeks turn to months what the HELL do you expect them to think. Especially with your piss poor relations with 9/10 of your playerbase.

Especially as you say you are part timing ticket responses THEN IT IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN EVER to alert people that their ticket has been read.

Egads, whats so **** hard about this. No wonder you can't get the rest right when you can't get on board with basic basic basic **** like ticket response etiquette.

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Katrar
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Re: help tickets part 3 [Re: Katrar]
      #165252 - 05/02/12 10:01 PM (24.17.137.174)

Seriously, this is just so **** sad, its chapter one ****. Write **** ticket responses. God damn, how hard is it to get one thing right SM.

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Rallis
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Re: help tickets part 3 [Re: Katrar]
      #165253 - 05/03/12 12:16 AM (99.26.68.88)

on SM's own signature it even says this

"Is it true? Do you really suck that bad?? "

i wonder if hes talkin to himself..hmmmmmm


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cbtgod
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Re: help tickets part 3 [Re: Katrar]
      #165254 - 05/03/12 12:23 AM (96.254.32.145)

my tickets from jan. the other in supposed ??????????????? a faction mate put in 3 weeks ago end of rant. i made my point and im well aware how to put in a ticket only been around for 9-10 yrs? and you should remove yourself as an admin in these forums. it is now plain as day you are not mature enough to put aside your personel issues you have for certain players. my post was clean and followed forum rules as best as i could. locking threads to not allow a response is rather childish to be honest. people expect certain things to be done in this game no matter what the state its in. and no i dont expect my tickets to get done any faster then others. but they are tagged in order you get them in. so again how is 1 ticket 3 weeks old get done before one that is now almost 4 months old? end of rant ive made my point again. l8rs DABOSS

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ShadowMasterCMModerator
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Re: help tickets part 3 [Re: cbtgod]
      #165265 - 05/03/12 01:51 PM (24.103.210.226)

Toscotto

First, thanks for taking the time to put up an intelligent and respectful thought...seems that sort of post is becoming less and less frequent here

Quote:

and if something is in process - tell the requestor - a this ticket is being researched thank you for your patience reply would be awesome...




I agree that the current Help Ticket System...well...it sucks.

Past Admins, as well as myself, have posted in updates and forums posts and in chat, that all tickets are indeed actually read. The time required to actually post a simple reply [preformatted or not] is not significant when considered on the individual basis. However, consider this total time when the help tickets are totaled up. Neveron players create thousands of tickets in the average year. Even the years where some players refuse to use the Help Ticket System, there are still several thousand tickets. That adds up to 50 to 100+ hours a year spent sending 'canned' responses for no other reason to send them.

What I am doing to try to address this and other issues, is to rework the Help Ticket System as a whole. I would like to add additional 'status' to the system. For example we now have 'Open', 'Replied' and 'Reopened' for example. I would like to add 'Read by Admin', 'Replied by Admin', 'Replied by Player' and so on. Its just as annoying on the Admin side of a ticket to to skim thru them looking for reopened vs replied. reopened means that a player has responded to a comment or question that an Admin has added to a ticket. Replied means an Admin replied. The tiny test and same font etc from makes it a hassel to find those tickets from active players

An additional issue with the current help ticket system is that tickets are based on the empire sent from as well as the login that empire is currently assigned to. when players transfer empires from loginA to loginB, they can no longer see the tickets. However on the admin side, I see ALL tickets. I have spent countless hours giving exactly the kind of response you suggested to hundreds of tickets during 2011. In many cases I asked for further information so that I could try to address the issue. Usually there are no responses to them. So now is that because the ticket cant be seen, or is the player simply inactive due to whatever reasons? Im a bad guy if I simply close the oldest and inactive tickets, and Im a bad guy if I dont send out replies to every single submission.

Another issue with some tickets is this...one reply and you get further comments from the player, usually explaining every issue they have ever had with Neveron since they started playing. Helpful suggestions about how to fix that, or what they think may be broken and so on. So a simple ticket, with a simple reply, ends up turning into a long winded chat / email in a horrible interface with all the character restrictions and so on.

Let's also not forget the outrage about Seth, and all his 'canned responses'. His job was to do exactly what your suggesting, and the players bitched and moaned about him constantly. So while this may sound like a great idea, it wont keep most people happy for very long, if at all. There are canned buttons in the Admin interface, and so far I have tried not to use them. Once I recode them, for the sake of time management, I will have to start using them more and more. As for any idea that past admins used to 'have the courtesy' to reply to each and every ticket, well thats not exactly true. When Neveron was in its infancy, sure there was more admin attention to tickets. As it grew larger and larger, they realized they could NOT reply to every ticket from every player with personalized information. That is where the use of the 'canned' responses and Seth job position was created from. There is no Seth anymore. There is not a magical clock that I can simply freeze time while I process 40 hours of tickets every week.

As for the tickets that need more info, I do send out replies to the ticket asking for more info. Most players have actually been pretty good about sending more useful tickets with good info in them, but not until I have had a one on one conversation with them about what a ticket needs and why. There are also some players that have had this conversation with me, and STILL cant create a useful ticket. Exactly how many times should I hold the hand of a 'veteran' player that refuses to follow simple guidelines, or possibly is not capable to follow them? Do you really want the Admin time spent hand holding the players that dont follow the protocol?

I VOLUNTEER my time to run Neveron. I estimate my time spent on Neveron related items so far to be around 4000 hours. Does choosing to not waste my time dealing with disrespecful trolls really make me the bad guy?

Neveron is a PART TIME venture. This is not new information. This has not changed since I took over Neveron. Why is it that some people can not get their heads around this concept? Why do some people insist on expecting / demanding more, and then try to act like Im the bad guy when they dont get what they expected? Seriously??

As for this utter nonsense about playing favorites or ignoring a specific player based on some prejudice...again...thats total horseshit!

So for the players that think Im neglecting you, stop feeling sorry for yourself, and either learn to work within the limitations that are currently Neveron, or go find yourself a new hobby to spend your time on.

Any player that takes the time to send in a valid ticket, with intelligent comments and or information, is read and processed accordingly. Personal opinions about the game in general or a specific system are acceptable as long as it is done in a respectful manner, and some supporting points when applicable are provided.

Ignorant rants and general trolling tickets are indeed ignored.

One project I am currently working on is an Admin 'Utility', that will allow me easy access modify many aspects of the game in an automated fashion. Currently many items require manual editing or data and remembering cryptic strings of text and so on.

Once this 'automated' tool is completed, I will start handing out instant fines and or /deletions to the players that are simply wasting my time with those negative troll like tickets and any other game related actions.

Those players that think they can simply create 'disposable' empires to do their dirty work, will not only get the disposable empire deleted, but their main empires will also be tracked and face fines / deletions for general disruptive behavior.

I have made myself available via chat, forums, email and in many cases for the 'vets' they have my phone number. So there is no excuse for them to contact me if they have a legitimate issue that they feel may have slipped through the cracks. Going into chat and bitching or posting tantrums and rants on the forums is a total waste of time of every player that ends up reading it.

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Is it true? Do you really suck that bad??

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buc
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Reged: 08/12/05
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Re: help tickets part 3 [Re: ShadowMasterCM]
      #165266 - 05/03/12 04:31 PM (125.237.150.189)

Answer to all your ticket problems: Player Admins.

Oh thats right, you gave us all the finger

Regardless, I still have that dream for nev. I really hope you can prove us all wrong and make it a success again.


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Katrar
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Posts: 1312
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Re: help tickets part 3 [Re: buc]
      #165270 - 05/03/12 10:01 PM (24.17.137.174)

4000 hours? Uh, yeah ok. Let's see how that works out:

You've owned Neveron for approximately 16 months.

That's about 62.5 hours per week you claim to have directly invested in Neveron.

You're telling us you are working on Neveron 8.93 billable equivalent hours per day, 7 days a week, and you can't even bother to keep up with tickets?

Bullshit.

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The HoC Archive - Neveron's definitive historical document


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KJI_3x6
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Reged: 09/11/06
Posts: 648
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Re: help tickets part 3 [Re: Katrar]
      #165271 - 05/03/12 10:53 PM (50.137.208.91)

yea....because i am going to read all of that.

tl;dr

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My d*** rumble in the jungle; your d*** got touched by your uncle.
My d*** double feature screen; your d*** went straight to dvd.


ME > you


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rantamplan
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Reged: 03/26/03
Posts: 341
Re: help tickets part 3 [Re: KJI_3x6]
      #165272 - 05/04/12 01:16 AM (193.144.201.40)

I have to break a lance for Sm in here.

I raised a tiket a month ago or so and it was answered and my problem corrected. what is fair is fair, and in this case, tiket systems is working fine for me.

Not saying that my case is the case for everyone, but maybe it is not so awful for everyone either.


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cbtgod
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Re: help tickets part 3 [Re: rantamplan]
      #165279 - 05/04/12 07:46 AM (96.254.32.145)

LMFAO 1 you havnt even read the ticket 2 you have left no response 3 i know how to submit a ticket. 4 at least 4 other tickets from faction mates have been taken care of in the last few weeks. my ticket sits unread with no response. i have better things to do then make up stories. i have stated facts. you have stated not to contact you via forums. you have asked not to be called about tickets in the past, unless its a major issue. i didnt post a rant, or **** fest again only facts. fact is it obv you dont do tickets in the order they come to you in? or you see its a login, and or empire you know who owns it. and pretty much go what ever. this supposed **** was asked to be posted by other players in my faction. who dont know why it seems certain people get tickets done and others do not. so flip and sit at my desk and you will have the same supposed view nothing more or less.again i was asked for reasons and or at least an answer to why? and some FYI for you ive got players with tickets weeks older. then some of the others you did 1st so its just not me. and ive also made a point in my faction that they do not send your supposed troll, or rant tickets. dont compare me to other turd factions or players in this game. l8rs DABOSS

--------------------
yes its a toad, if you didnt know that you dont know anything about cbt


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buc
Captain


Reged: 08/12/05
Posts: 710
Re: help tickets part 3 [Re: cbtgod]
      #165284 - 05/04/12 08:58 PM (125.237.150.189)

Kato, I've spent far more than 4000 hours in nev. Can I get a refund?

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Katrar
Major


Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 1312
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Re: help tickets part 3 [Re: buc]
      #165287 - 05/05/12 01:11 AM (24.17.137.174)

Only if I can too.

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The HoC Archive - Neveron's definitive historical document


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NeverSayNever
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Reged: 11/18/02
Posts: 1655
Re: help tickets part 3 [Re: Katrar]
      #165292 - 05/05/12 08:09 AM (78.51.135.80)

To all those complaining about help ticket processing times, lack of professional service, or whatever: please relax and try to look at the bright side: at least you've still got a game to complain about - loudly and passionately ...


Things could be worse:

"[off topic, MMOs in general] "Entire MMO Accidentally Deleted by Company""

http://www.sarna.net/forums/showthreaded.php/Cat/0/Number/165291/Main/165291/#Post165291



And now back to backing up my hard drive(s) ... Dang, what happened to hard drive prices? - These greedy [censored]s ...



Have a nice day / night.


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Toscotto
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Posts: 530
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Re: help tickets part 3 [Re: NeverSayNever]
      #165325 - 05/06/12 09:24 PM (24.19.129.178)

.

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The question is not how far, the question is do you possess the constitution, the depth of faith, to go as far as needed?


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Toscotto
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Re: help tickets part 3 [Re: Toscotto]
      #165326 - 05/06/12 09:24 PM (24.19.129.178)

nsn is really pisses me off that i have to log in just so i dont have to see your posts.

rallis, so even though we all know that SM loves a good sausage now and then -wink- i do not see him one to commute back and forth from new york to germany...

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The question is not how far, the question is do you possess the constitution, the depth of faith, to go as far as needed?

Edited by Toscotto (05/06/12 10:54 PM)


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ShadowMasterCMModerator
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Re: help tickets part 3 [Re: buc]
      #165397 - 05/14/12 03:53 PM (24.103.210.226)

buc:
Quote:

Answer to all your ticket problems: Player Admins.

Oh thats right, you gave us all the finger




This is NOT the answer to all the ticket problems. You really want a player having access to all your empire data? That is what it will take for any person to be able to work on anything other than general questions...FULL database access. Randy and Wayward_Son have granted that sort of access in the past, and in every case it was misused or abused for personal gains.

Furthermore, there has only been ONE player that I have ever approached about becoming a Player Admin, to specifically help with general ticket processing, and that was mattbuck. Even that was going to be on a trial basis with limited access, something that mattbuck and I discussed. I had hoped that mattbuck and I could work together and approach Neveron from a professional perspective, but at this point that clearly is never gonna happen.

I also discussed with mattbuck that the entire Help Ticket System would need to be overhauled before he could start working in his new role. The help Tickets had to be first sorted [general tickets from the more detailed and involved ones], and then second allow him access to those general tickets.

As has been stated multiple times, I am NOT a professional coder with years of experience. I am attempting to learn not only multiple languages, but multiple versions of each of those languages, and how they all tie together and interact. Usually before I can work on any of the code with modern coding software, I have to get all the Neveron code up to a minimum compatibility level. Even an experienced coder would have a difficult time trying to sort things out. So when the Help Ticket System is finally overhauled, then I will again look for candidates for Player Admins.

Any other roles that I have asked players to take on have been to help all new players understand this game until a better Tutorial system is created. Players have also been asked to act as an extra set of eyes and ears on any game wide issues. I knew I could never be in chat 24/7, nor would I want to be. Even the forums, when used properly [something Neveron players rarely do], can not be monitored 24/7 and there will be delays in responses and so on. So having multiple knowledgeable, respectful and professional players in chat 24/7 is key to helping, and ultimately keeping new players. THAT was a role that I had hoped that some players would take on in order to help the game succeed.

Instead some players started trying to redesign the game or some of it's concepts and so forth. When their ideas are rejected, not implemented or even put on hold until later then feelings start to get hurt, and childish behavior soon took over.

I have created multiple chat channels and group Google documents to help organize a variety of player based panels to work on projects. In most cases player enthusiasm lasts only a few days, and rarely anything productive was ever created.

An example is that I have wanted a master list of mechs created...based on CBT core rules. Rather than me take time to learn CBT, why not give that task to a group of dedicated hardcore CBT players that already know those mech stats inside and out? Once that master list is created, then I could review it and modify it as needed to work within Neveron rules and existing code.

This is a way that players can actually save me a huge amount of time.

So I'm not sure how or where you came to the conclusion that I gave the finger to any Player Admin(s), as there never have been any officially since the sale. Any assumptions of titles or roles that players may have taken on where not given to them by any Neveron Admin(s).

If you truly want Neveron to be successful again, then do your part to help, or at the very least stop trying to constantly undermine Neveron. You should really take a close look at your recent behavior as a person, let alone an experienced player.

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Neveron Promo Code: online gaming rocks

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ShadowMasterCMModerator
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Re: help tickets part 3 [Re: Katrar]
      #165398 - 05/14/12 04:38 PM (24.103.210.226)

Katrar:
Quote:

You've owned Neveron for approximately 16 months.

That's about 62.5 hours per week you claim to have directly invested in Neveron.





The estimated time includes all aspects...including research and training, not just coding. So your 'billable hours' comment is actually correct. Time = Money if we had to hire all this out.

16 months also only accounts for time spent since the servers relocated. There was an additional 2 months spent in 2010 working on setting up the servers, ISP and domain before it was finally back online Jan 21st, 2011.

There was a tremendous amount of time and effort spent prior to the server relocation not only on research, but consulting with attorneys and accountants as well as IT 'experts' [coders, hardware techs] and sales reps for the various options to set things up like the ISP and Co-location set ups and so forth.

Even if we disregard any time before the servers relocated, lets use 18 months, and the entire 4,000 hours. We will count 9 weeks in 2010, 52 weeks in 2011, and 17 weeks to thru April 2012.

That's 78 weeks or 51 hours per week average.

Let's remember that I spent 2 straight weeks this past February getting up at 7AM and working with Randy until dinner time. Even at meals we where working on notes, planning and discussing what items we would work on next. Once I dropped Randy off at his hotel, I'd be back working till I passed out at 2 or 3AM. So those days I worked 12 to 15 hours each day, for a weekly average of 80+ hours for 2 weeks.

The first four months after the servers relocated I was spending an average of 12 to 18 hours a day working on something to do with Neveron, usually at least 5 days. Bassy [my daughter] was getting home from work one night. I was actually sitting on the couch [rather than sitting at my desk or on the phone] and I startled her...as she hadn't seen me in there for that long. This again averages out to 80+ hours each week for 18 weeks.

I also usually squeeze in at least a few hours on the days that I 'work' my other job, to do things like process donations and reboot random programs and servers as needed.

I also bring my laptop with me to 'work' and when I have an opportunity, I will work on something from there as well. Sometimes I cant access a power source, or an internet connection, so I may only work on my training materials [aka read a book]. So even when I'm at my other job, I've logged hours working on Neveron. At least those hours I'm getting 'paid', even if it is by another employer!

So 18 + 2 = 20 weeks * 80 hours = 1600 hours
That leaves 58 weeks / 2400 hours = 41 hours average
Mon / Tue / Wed * 15 hours / day = 45 hours / week

Keep in mind in my 'estimate' I counted all my time before the servers relocated...in this math I only counted time AFTER the relocation...and yet it seems I UNDER ESTIMATED my time spent.

When I started working on Help Tickets there was something like 1400 open tickets. Players also reopened many old/ closed tickets at this point. Several hundred(s) of new tickets have been created since then as well. Last check, I had just over 1,000 open tickets. It was down to less than 600 at one point.

None of this of course factors in any of the issues I have to deal with when using that ancient Help Ticket System...

So yeah I'm saying that I spent 4,000+ 'billable' hours so far of my time working on research & sales calls, training classes, trial & error self teaching, player discussions, hardware setup and maintenance, promotions & marketing, donation processing and fund raising...and yes even answering some Help Tickets when time allows.

So please take your negative 'bullshit' and go find a new hobby

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ShadowMasterCMModerator
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Re: help tickets part 3 [Re: cbtgod]
      #165399 - 05/14/12 05:01 PM (24.103.210.226)

cbtgod / DABOSS:
Quote:

1 you havnt even read the ticket
4 my ticket sits unread with no response.
i have stated facts.
you have stated not to contact you via forums.
fact is it obv you dont do tickets in the order they come to you in?
or you see its a login, and or empire you know who owns it. and pretty much go what ever.
so its just not me.





You are jumping to inaccurate conclusions, not stating facts.

As I have already stated, the Help Ticket System does not show the player that a ticket has been read. There is no way for a player to know if an Admin has read a specific ticket or not. Past Admins had stated they read every ticket. I have also stated that ALL tickets are in fact read.

I have also stated NUMEROUS times that I do NOT reply to ever ticket, especially for the sake of replying to say I simply read it. There are not enough hours in the day to even consider that as an option.

As for not contacting me via forums or whatever, that was specifically directed at players looking for responses to issues that should be / are already Help Tickets. Making a post on Sarna, or sending me a PM on Sarna or in chat about your Help Tickets will be ignored, as I stated when I said do not contact me in these places about Help Tickets.

I have also stated that the tickets currently are simply sorted by the Ticket ID #, with the most recent one at the top of the list. However since I read tickets every few days, I make a point of going back to the last ticket I read and working up from there. Some days there are dozens of new tickets, other days there are none.

The ones that I do reply to are the ones that I can fix immediately with a bit of general information, this ticket usually being from a new player, and the type of ticket that a Player Admin with general game knowledge could easily handle with out access to the database.

The other type of tickets that I reply to are the ones that required me to access the database and confirm and deny some bit of information, and then act accordingly to it. Some cases I need to delete zones on Noob Isle for a mainland empire. Sometimes its looking at login / ownership issues for an empire. Whatever the issue, it takes access to the databases, which I may or may not have depending on where I'm working from, and the time I have to work on tickets that day.

Any ticket that is reporting some complex issue or alleged bug usually requires much more in depth research into the database and a variety of logs it creates. This is even harder to decipher and learn than any of the various code languages, mostly because its all custom code and procedures, which have been tweaked and modified over the years. This is often the case of "band-aids on band-aids" type of coding when we get into this area.

The point being here is that I simply have not yet learned how to research a lot of these issues, let alone fix them. So the more complex, and the issues that can not be replicated, end up getting saved for later/ put on the back burner.

Neveron has always run like this, the big difference before was there was a 'staff' of trained coders. For the players that don't like how this sounds, then its time for you to go find a new hobby, as this is not going to change any time soon!

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Is it true? Do you really suck that bad??

Neveron Promo Code: online gaming rocks

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Katrar
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Re: help tickets part 3 [Re: ShadowMasterCM]
      #165400 - 05/14/12 06:16 PM (24.17.137.174)

Quote:

Rather than me take time to learn CBT, why not give that task to a group of dedicated hardcore CBT players




Since this is a particular criticism in both direction, suffice it to say that the owner of a game should at least TRY to understand, oh, I don't know... THE SYSTEM THE GAME IS BASED ON.

This is part of your problem, the fact that you don't have a clue how your own game works. And you obviously aren't at all interested in learning.

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The HoC Archive - Neveron's definitive historical document


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Katrar
Major


Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 1312
Loc: Seattle, WA USA, Terra
Re: help tickets part 3 [Re: ShadowMasterCM]
      #165402 - 05/14/12 06:19 PM (24.17.137.174)

SM:

Quote:

So please take your negative 'bullshit' and go find a new hobby




I kind of have to, don't I, since you've done so well "fixing the game". Unless of course -60 gun assault mechs was supposed to be a feature. I think its pretty clear you will soon be in need of a new hobby as well.

Oh and as for your explanation of your incredible investment in time on Neveron... at the end of the day the same question applies: what good have any of those hours done for the game. lol

By the way, your, shall I say, rather interesting concept of what constitutes billable hours is cute.

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Gunner
Sergeant Major


Reged: 07/11/04
Posts: 364
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Re: help tickets part 3 [Re: Katrar]
      #165404 - 05/14/12 07:06 PM (173.78.122.11)

I've heard the answer to the help ticket issue is very simple...Diablo 3. Then you'll stop caring about your tickets.

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KJI_3x6
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Reged: 09/11/06
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Re: help tickets part 3 [Re: Gunner]
      #165407 - 05/15/12 02:01 AM (50.137.208.91)

jesus christ..... sm, do you need to write a **** essay every time you come here and reply to the issues people raise? **** man, nobody wants to read all that ****, have you ever heard of the word concise? could this be part of your problem? you over complicate things to a degree far past what anyone deems necessary? you need to try this, next time you sit down with the neveron, focus on something small and fixable, not some grand idea on a massive scale, focus on little ****, here and there, clean up the current game before you go off on a massive orgy of changing everything even though you don;t know what the **** you are doing.

what is it nsn says, food for thought or some **** like that?

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My d*** double feature screen; your d*** went straight to dvd.


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Tzu_Theory
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Reged: 10/28/04
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Re: help tickets part 3 [Re: ShadowMasterCM]
      #165411 - 05/15/12 05:39 AM (128.190.125.2)

Quote:

Katrar:
Quote:

You've owned Neveron for approximately 16 months.

That's about 62.5 hours per week you claim to have directly invested in Neveron.





The estimated time includes all aspects...including research and training, not just coding. So your 'billable hours' comment is actually correct. Time = Money if we had to hire all this out.

16 months also only accounts for time spent since the servers relocated. There was an additional 2 months spent in 2010 working on setting up the servers, ISP and domain before it was finally back online Jan 21st, 2011.

There was a tremendous amount of time and effort spent prior to the server relocation not only on research, but consulting with attorneys and accountants as well as IT 'experts' [coders, hardware techs] and sales reps for the various options to set things up like the ISP and Co-location set ups and so forth.

Even if we disregard any time before the servers relocated, lets use 18 months, and the entire 4,000 hours. We will count 9 weeks in 2010, 52 weeks in 2011, and 17 weeks to thru April 2012.

That's 78 weeks or 51 hours per week average.

Let's remember that I spent 2 straight weeks this past February getting up at 7AM and working with Randy until dinner time. Even at meals we where working on notes, planning and discussing what items we would work on next. Once I dropped Randy off at his hotel, I'd be back working till I passed out at 2 or 3AM. So those days I worked 12 to 15 hours each day, for a weekly average of 80+ hours for 2 weeks.

The first four months after the servers relocated I was spending an average of 12 to 18 hours a day working on something to do with Neveron, usually at least 5 days. Bassy [my daughter] was getting home from work one night. I was actually sitting on the couch [rather than sitting at my desk or on the phone] and I startled her...as she hadn't seen me in there for that long. This again averages out to 80+ hours each week for 18 weeks.

I also usually squeeze in at least a few hours on the days that I 'work' my other job, to do things like process donations and reboot random programs and servers as needed.

I also bring my laptop with me to 'work' and when I have an opportunity, I will work on something from there as well. Sometimes I cant access a power source, or an internet connection, so I may only work on my training materials [aka read a book]. So even when I'm at my other job, I've logged hours working on Neveron. At least those hours I'm getting 'paid', even if it is by another employer!

So 18 + 2 = 20 weeks * 80 hours = 1600 hours
That leaves 58 weeks / 2400 hours = 41 hours average
Mon / Tue / Wed * 15 hours / day = 45 hours / week

Keep in mind in my 'estimate' I counted all my time before the servers relocated...in this math I only counted time AFTER the relocation...and yet it seems I UNDER ESTIMATED my time spent.

When I started working on Help Tickets there was something like 1400 open tickets. Players also reopened many old/ closed tickets at this point. Several hundred(s) of new tickets have been created since then as well. Last check, I had just over 1,000 open tickets. It was down to less than 600 at one point.

None of this of course factors in any of the issues I have to deal with when using that ancient Help Ticket System...

So yeah I'm saying that I spent 4,000+ 'billable' hours so far of my time working on research & sales calls, training classes, trial & error self teaching, player discussions, hardware setup and maintenance, promotions & marketing, donation processing and fund raising...and yes even answering some Help Tickets when time allows.

So please take your negative 'bullshit' and go find a new hobby




I would like to see the configuration management documentation. You wasted your time and mismanaged your assets if you now this far along and the game is still busted.

4000 hours could have been mitigated with less of an investment than you think. An experienced developer could have fixed most of the issues in around 80-100 hours. Even paying preminum, you're looking at around a $10,000 investment to fix the game. Sounds pricy? Imagine what returns you would have had with a heathy game.

See CM, this is what I was talking about in regards to the RFP I wanted to see as a potential investor. You have no idea what you're doing. You are out of your league.

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cbtgod
Lieutenant Colonel


Reged: 12/14/05
Posts: 1812
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Re: help tickets part 3 [Re: Tzu_Theory]
      #165413 - 05/15/12 08:29 AM (173.78.137.15)

my supposed ticket in ????????????? was a game wide req of yourself. which was once you get your buildings updated submit a ticket for nev cash owed for omt costs due to the building bug. your words not mine. and its even tagged money owed for land bug how much more simple can it get for someone. lmfao what a joke. i also find it funny you are taking money for pilot multis that dont work. do you need someone to point out what fraud is? *thumbs up* keep up the good work SM!, more like lack of. ive again stated facts. id suggest you look into a poss dr phil show to help you with your issues. and tzu is right on the dot on his numbers. my brother in law works for microsoft. and did try nev a while back. and i asked how much time would it take. he stated its an ignorant guess but around 100-125hrs. so you have 3.5 times as much of that time into the game? and you cant get the help ticket system fixed LMFAO. l8rs DABOSS

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yes its a toad, if you didnt know that you dont know anything about cbt


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Katrar
Major


Reged: 09/15/02
Posts: 1312
Loc: Seattle, WA USA, Terra
Re: help tickets part 3 [Re: cbtgod]
      #165415 - 05/15/12 09:53 AM (24.17.137.174)

Actually by those numbers he doesn't have 3.5 times as much time in to the game. He has 35 times as much. lol

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Torq
Newbie


Reged: 04/30/12
Posts: 17
Re: help tickets part 3 [Re: Katrar]
      #165416 - 05/15/12 04:36 PM (161.184.189.112)

Yes, that is worse Kato.

The time it took you to write out all your 'bullshit' nonsense, you most assuredly could have written updates. Soemthing that everyone has been screaming for...... how long?

All I can say to you now SM is LMFAO


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NeverSayNever
Lieutenant Colonel


Reged: 11/18/02
Posts: 1655
Re: help tickets part 3 [Re: Tzu_Theory]
      #165418 - 05/15/12 05:39 PM (92.228.135.171)

Tzu_Theory wrote:
Quote:


[...]
4000 hours could have been mitigated with less of an investment than you think. An experienced developer could have fixed most of the issues in around 80-100 hours. Even paying preminum, you're looking at around a $10,000 investment to fix the game. Sounds pricy? Imagine what returns you would have had with a heathy game.
[...]






If you bothered to read ShadowMaster's post(s) you might have noticed that he did not claim to have done "4000 hours" of coding - the main activity of an experienced game developer's / programmer's job, I presume?

Looks like SM spent much - if not most - of the time with bug ticket processing - the main activity of a customer service employee, I presume?

Sure, "80-100 hours" of pure coding by an "experienced developer" should / could have fixed many of the most glaring coding related issues, unfortunately it would have taken probably several hundred additional hours to get familiar with the existing code and to document it properly.

Trouble is I seriously doubt that any "experienced developer" would want to plough through thousands upon thousands lines of code for a rather mediocre amount of money in return.

Any really "experienced developer" should have a well paid job at one of the already established game studios, simply because the app and browser game development bubble appears to be still expanding like crazy - and if this growth craze goes on there might soon be issues with properly populating all these new multiplayer online games / virtual worlds ...

But back to Neveron.

What kind of service / technical support do you expect from a 'free' online game? - 'Perfect' service with 24/7 admin live support? - No, sorry, you'll simply get what you pay for ...


Just some food for thought ...

Have a nice day / night.


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